Please tell me some sure-fire ways to *make* gr 7-12 students use an organizer

[74Heaven]

I have failed at teaching my children to use an organizer.

I have tried. Valiantly. Persistently.

 

How do you require and teach your children to use an organizer? I feel like I have tried everything. I don't understand the resistance. We are prob. all some variation of ADD!

 

I have three youngers in grade 8, 5 & 3. I truly want to succeed as I think this is huge. In truth, my 11yo son is the only one who "enjoys" writing lists and planning.

 

My almost 19yo daughter refused to use an organizer until she wasted her first semester of college. She is finally (independently) on board.

 

My 16.5yo daughter is at a private school & has reluctantly and poorly complied with using her organizer this year. It has cost her dearly as she has prob. turned in about 10-15% of her work late this year. She prob. has lost .25 of a gpa due to late, forgotten or done-but-neglected-to-turn-in assignments. I have allowed her to sink or swim with continuing reminders and occasional groundings til things get caught up. (These groundings (which are extremely rare for this child outside of this problem - very good kid) - have had the desired "pay attention" and "catch up" results, but the habit has not stuck. Halfway thru the year, we got flouerescent folders in the front of each binder (or binder section) labeled Work-To-Be-Turned-In. This helped, but it has continued to be a battle.

 

I do not seem to be able to convince them. We did do Superstar Student videos and we will do them again this fall (for 5th, 8th).

 

This past year, I made one for my 16yo's design and had it personalized with a nice cover. I let the 8th and 5th grader pick their own out - which they were excited to do.

 

I have taught them, side by side one subject at a time to make a box, write out the assignment and check it.

 

In the past, I did weekly assignment sheets for them. Now, we have wall-posted larger "generic" lists instead. I have quit making weekly assignment sheets because I think it "enabled" my oldest 2 daughters to rely on me instead of develop the habit themselves?

 

Thanks in advance.

Lisa j, frustrated mom

[Ellie]

I dunno. Some people are just never, ever going to do it, no matter what. I've tried to get Mr. Ellie to understand and utilize some of the organizational things I have going on in our home, but no...he cannot do it. :glare:

 

I didn't do that organizational stuff when I was in school, and yet I still managed to get through. Maybe it isn't that your dc need organizers; maybe it's that they just need to Learn To Do It. Maybe the work involved in making the lists and checking the boxes makes their eyeballs bleed because their minds just don't think that way and they cannot be reprogrammed.

[bugs]

:bigear: Will follow this thread.

[74Heaven]

I dunno. Some people are just never, ever going to do it, no matter what. I've tried to get Mr. Ellie to understand and utilize some of the organizational things I have going on in our home, but no...he cannot do it. :glare:

 

I didn't do that organizational stuff when I was in school, and yet I still managed to get through. Maybe it isn't that your dc need organizers; maybe it's that they just need to Learn To Do It. Maybe the work involved in making the lists and checking the boxes makes their eyeballs bleed because their minds just don't think that way and they cannot be reprogrammed.

 

I could care less about reprogramming them *IF* they could get things in on time and keep organized to a minimum degree. I can't afford (nor are they int. in buying one) but my hsing friend has her high school freshman using his smart phone (or ipad?) for his scheduling and she says it works very well for him. And that the paper/pencil route did not work.

 

My 8th grade daughter turned in A+ papers - consistently 1-2 weeks late - in her writing and literature co op classes. Her B- grade was a real wake up call for me. (I knew she had been late, but I didn't know "how often and how late" til the end of the year.)

 

I'm open to any routine or approach (not buying any smartphone) but Mr. 74H's fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants approach does not work in the academic world.

 

Lisa J

[choirfarm]

I'm working on this with my middle chid. My oldest is naturally organized. Honestly, it has to do with being organized yourself. I print him out a calendar for the week. We talk about it and he pencils in a few things. I have to ask him 2 or 3 times a day if he has filled in what he has done on his calendar. If I do that, he does it. If I don't, he won't. I'm hoping it will be automatic, but no luck yet.

 

Christine

[FloridaLisa]

Hide random dollars in the pages? :D

 

I would keep making weekly assignment sheets for your 8th, 5th and 3rd graders if they are homeschooling. Keep laying down that habit. I don't think it will enable them. I've done weekly assignment sheets with mine and they have (after some bumps) become organized in their college/outside classes.

 

For your 16-yo dd: Perhaps use a different method to organize? Maybe a computer or phone based calendering system would work?

 

Do you have access to syllabi for dd's high school courses? Can you talk to her teachers next year and find out how often to expect homework and tests? If her English teacher says daily, then you'd know to check dd's calendar daily for an English assignment.

 

Lisa

[beachnut]

I've got two boys -- a 9th grader and a 6th grader. Both are relatively disorganized. I've been slowly trying to instill the habit of using a paper organizer over this past year by printing out weekly assignment sheets for them, having them refer to the sheets each day to know what they should do and when, and checking them off. They've become fairly good at this, but it still requires some prodding from me.

 

They both love the computer, so I've been working with them to put things on their Outlook calendar (such as soccer practice, band camp, or an upcoming oral exam with the teacher for their online course). They actually enjoy putting things on the calendar ... they're just not yet in the habit of CHECKING their calendar on a regular basis to see what's coming up. I think this will take a lot of encouragement on my part over the next year or so for it to become automatic.

 

Realistically, most kids just don't care about this stuff. I think it's part personality (where some kids simply like to be more organized) and part maturity. Eventually, as schedules get busier, consequences get bigger and commitments begin to mount, students will find what works for them, either via paper or technology.

 

I think you can lay the groundwork by teaching and modeling good time/resource management habits. But, ultimately, the kids need to take ownership of it themselves when they're ready.

[Lori D.]

Honestly: not everyone thinks/organizes through an organizer. I wish *I* could, cuz they look so... organized! But I just can't use those things; I'm visual and I need stacks of papers (and I can ALWAYS tell you where in a stack the paper you want is located!), and a big calendar on the side of the fridge. I repeatedly tried organizers, but would make one entry, forget about the thing, never have it with me whenever I might need to make use of it, and by the end of the year, it would have the one entry in it and that was IT.

 

To stay organized for college classes, I had one notebook for each class and I stapled the syllabus for each class into the inside front cover of the notebook for that class. MWF classes were all one color (say, blue), TTh classes another (all yellow), so visually I could just grab whatever colored stack of notebooks were needed that day, and every time I opened the notebook in class to take notes, I would look at the syllabus and see what was coming due and make a mental note of it; then I would do the homework or reading that was coming up that week *right after the class*. Worked for me, and I never missed any deadlines...

 

A pda helped my DH stay organized, now he uses his i-pod touch. I think using an app on their' i-pod touches will work for our DSs... especially if it is some sort of app which sends an automatic text message or email to them the day before something is due...

 

 

Check out this interesting book: "How to Be Organized In Spite of Yourself: Time and Space Management That Works With Your Personal Style". I only read a summary from it, but it's very intriguing to me because it allows you to acknowledge YOUR unique personality and work WITH it, while minimizing the downside to your style of organization (or lack thereof).

 

 

BEST of luck in helping your students grasp that "organizational" baton and hang on and win! :P Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Lori D.

[FloridaLisa]

Honestly: not everyone thinks/organizes through an organizer. I wish *I* could, cuz they look so... organized! But I just can't use those things; I'm visual and I need stacks of papers (and I can ALWAYS tell you where in a stack the paper you want is located!), and a big calendar on the side of the fridge.

 

 

 

Wait -- do you have a to-do stack in your kitchen near your phone? ;)

 

This is true for me as well, Lori (and several of my dc). I've never used an *organizer* though I keep a calendar in my kitchen drawer. So perhaps finding what works for your dd is key. Dh loves outlook and his I-phone.

 

Lisa

[Lori D.]

Wait -- do you have a to-do stack in your kitchen near your phone?

 

 

Yup. That's the immediate "crisis" stuff. Then there's the 2 stacks on my desk of "I need to get to these things eventually" stuff. And then the little stack of receipts et.al. under the computer screen for monthly entry and check-balancing. And then the constantly-changing stack of things that need to go out the front door to various people and/or places...

 

Sigh... To keep from driving DH crazy with my stacks, I really DO try to limit and get rid of stacks in the common rooms all the time. One thing that really helped me organize the schoolwork was a heavy-duty crate for each DS; take stuff out use it, return it to crate, stack crates in laundry room at end of day.

 

 

More and more realizing I am probably a closet ADD person... (lol) Warmly, Lori D.

[Rhonda in TX]

:iagree: This is me. Organizers have never worked for me. Write it down in a separate book and then close it? That's a sure fire recipe for me not getting it done. I'm very visual. Out of sight, out of mind.

[74Heaven]

Thanks, Ladies. I totally understand that "organizers" don't work for everyone. I'm not even suggesting that everyone should have one. My frustration lies with the lack of structure / organization that the kids (mostly my 16yo) have that results in missed assignments and poor results.

 

(Btw, I am a very organized person with ADHD who uses *several* systems.) I used to have an amazing memory; now I just have an amazing pen-and-paper. I write it *all* down. My personal calendar and fridge calendar (both month at a glance) are the pulse of our family.

 

I appreciate the ideas and the sympathy. I just don't understand why a 16yo who gets an F on an assignment (an assignment that is done & completed & in the bright yellow Turn In Folder of her binder) isn't motivated to change?

 

thanks

Lisa

[Gwen in VA]

1) My kids failed at using organizers in high school simply because their schedules weren't fully their own. If I made a commitment that involved them, I would write it in MY calendar but not theirs! They just had too much stuff going on that other people committed them to!

 

2) Once they got to college, dd1 took to her planner like a duck to water. :-) But ds couldn't and didn't -- until he found the calendar app on his iPod. I still don't understand how he can run his life from his iPod, but since officially ditching the planner and using the iPod calendar he has been noticeably more organized.

 

Keep on looking around for the right "medium"!

 

3) PLANNERS ARE IMPORTANT, so don't give up! At my kids' college, the dean of freshmen got up at the convocation and spoke about organization. He commented that 90% of the freshmen who end up in academic difficulties do NOT have a planner, while among the freshmen who are doing okay, only 20% do not have a planner. He argued that this was not a coincidence! And he encouraged all parents to make sure their kids had a planner before the parents headed back home!

[Nan in Mass]

Wow! I have very similar stacks.

If something is super important, I put a note on the stove by the tea kettle.

This is a bad habit that I seem to have caught from my sister. The first few times I saw her do it, I was appalled, but works so well, at least when the note doesn't catch fire. Sigh. Sometimes I hear "oops - hope that wasn't important" from the kitchen. I always know what the note says, though, because it is important. It is just supposed to keep me from forgetting to DO it. Well, occasionally the note is a list and then it is a problem, but it seldom all burns up. Usually just the edge too close to the burner does and I can reconstruct the other half of the words. I have lots of todo lists as well as the stacks, and a calendar, but I don't have an appointment book thingy of any sort. I dislike that I have to live in the middle of my many school stacks, but the house if very small and I have no office and I am running a school. When I grow up, I intend to have a proper place to keep all my work-related things, rather than having to step over them whenever I want to walk in the house and move them when I want to sit down, eat, or go to sleep.

-Nan

[mom2paul]

Computer is a good idea. The assignment book isn't working here.

[Shawn On the Border]

I had the same problem here. Before ds15 went off to high school, he watched the Superstar Student videos. We discussed organization, got a planner, read a book about organization, put together files for papers, etc.

When he got to school, he wrote his assignments on tiny pieces of paper that he would stuff in his pocket! When he insisted on doing it that way, I bought him a small notebook to put in his pocket, but by the end of the year he was back to the small pieces. To his credit, he never missed an assignment. The teachers remind the kids so much, that he never really had to keep track of long-term assignments. I guess all you can do is give the kids the tools to succeed, and then they have to decide for themselves (sometimes through trial and error).

[Storm Bay]

I dunno. Some people are just never, ever going to do it, no matter what..

:iagree:

:iagree: The only planning I did was in university when I would make up a one semester calendar (no PC then) and put in all my due dates with dates for getting parts of things done by. The calendar, sheets taped together (I'm wasn't savvy or motivated enough to buy poster paper and do a nice job) was put where I could see it. I outlined papers by organizing my notes (which were on 3x5 cards) into piles. I had to come up with some of this on my own (I did get hints on the index card method, though) and it would be great if I did this all the time every day, but the fact is once I feel overwhelmed, I don't, and if I can

Hide random dollars in the pages? :D

 

 

 

Lisa

 

:D Mine would leaf through all the pages, take the dollars and use the book for drawing and/or writing stories in.

:iagree: This is me. Organizers have never worked for me. Write it down in a separate book and then close it? That's a sure fire recipe for me not getting it done. I'm very visual. Out of sight, out of mind.

This is me, too, when it comes to most things. However, I can organize things like events with no trouble at all. I don't use planners, and can keep most details in my head for events, but usually have a file or notebook for them. I do have a planning notebook for high school, but it's very brief and now dd is at ps.

[Twigs]

I just don't understand why a 16yo who gets an F on an assignment (an assignment that is done & completed & in the bright yellow Turn In Folder of her binder) isn't motivated to change?

 

 

Here's my 2¢ (and probably not worth that much)

 

Is she too old for having consequences for poor grades? What I mean is, don't dwell on the organizer issue (a means to the end), but the grade issue. You know about your family, so this is just a thought - since she is doing so poorly on her assignments, she must need more time to work on them and less time on fun, outside activities, screen time, etc - make her earn those activities with good grades. Whatever motivates her to keep her grades up, (an organizer, her memory) is just a tool to meet the goal of being responsible with her work.

 

Best wishes

[Amy in TX]

...works so well, at least when the note doesn't catch fire. Sigh. Sometimes I hear "oops - hope that wasn't important" from the kitchen. I always know what the note says, though, because it is important. It is just supposed to keep me from forgetting to DO it. Well, occasionally the note is a list and then it is a problem, but it seldom all burns up. Usually just the edge too close to the burner does and I can reconstruct the other half of the words.

-Nan

 

I heart you, Nan! :)

[Lori D.]

I just don't understand why a 16yo who gets an F on an assignment (an assignment that is done & completed & in the bright yellow Turn In Folder of her binder) isn't motivated to change?

 

 

My neighbor's son does the exact same thing; he is 16yo, too, so maybe it is partially a teen-hormone-brain-forgetfulness-thing?? Or perhaps once the student has completed the assignment he/she feels he/she is *done*, and it goes off the radar that anything more has to be done with it??

 

 

Related personal confession: when DSs were young, I would labor and sweat and oversee that they wrote thank you notes to everyone who gave them a Christmas or birthday gift -- and then two years later I would find the thank yous in a stack of papers, unsent. For me, it was such labor and effort getting those things written, that I felt DONE -- and mentally blanked out the final step (which was yet another layer of mental effort of remembering and making time to do the addressing/stamping/mailing).

 

 

I haven't figured out how to overcome my own issue of "completion of projects", so no advice; just empathy! BEST wishes that your DC will find a way to bring their projects to FULL completion! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[elegantlion]

We tried a paper planner this year. Blank stares ensued. I'm a paper person, if it's on the computer I'll forget about it. Dh uses technology to organize. His life is on his phone. Ds prefers the technology aspect.

 

I'm using Engrade for setting up classes next year. It's a free teachers organizer, gradebook, etc. They also have a communication system you can set up between you and your students. I'm looking at how to implement this for ds next year.

[Camilla in VA]

No,

 

Until they want to be organized with an organizer, it isn't going to happen.

 

Oldest DS missed a test in Calculus in first semester of college because the professor wrote about the test on the syllabus and never mentioned it in class. Son had to drop class because of an F on one test.

 

I made him pay to take Calculus again the next semester. (Expensive lesson because it is a 5 credit class.) And the 2nd semester he still missed a few quizzes in other classes.

 

By the third semester of college he started using a calendar on his phone.

 

Every semester I made him read an organization book, or watch an organization video, or even take a study skills/ organization class. It didn't help! (These books, videos, and classes started his first year of high school.)

 

And I can relate because I also do not have a "planner" gene. I cannot use a planner because I do not open it ever! What is the point of writing down stuff if you will never, ever see it again?

 

Camilla

[74Heaven]

No,

 

Until they want to be organized with an organizer, it isn't going to happen.

 

Oldest DS missed a test in Calculus in first semester of college because the professor wrote about the test on the syllabus and never mentioned it in class. Son had to drop class because of an F on one test.

 

I made him pay to take Calculus again the next semester. (Expensive lesson because it is a 5 credit class.) And the 2nd semester he still missed a few quizzes in other classes.

 

By the third semester of college he started using a calendar on his phone.

 

Every semester I made him read an organization book, or watch an organization video, or even take a study skills/ organization class. It didn't help! (These books, videos, and classes started his first year of high school.)

 

And I can relate because I also do not have a "planner" gene. I cannot use a planner because I do not open it ever! What is the point of writing down stuff if you will never, ever see it again?

 

Camilla

 

And for me, just writing it down increases the likelihood I'll remember it.

 

Great thoughts, ladies! Thanks!

Lisa J

[Nan in Mass]

I cannot tell you how many ortho appointments we have missed over the years because I forgot to look at the calendar at the beginning of the day. I probably remember to look unpromted about three times each month. This is usually enough to give me a vague idea of what is going on three weeks out of four, and the vague feeling of unease that means I probably am supposed to be doing something else prompts me to look during the week to check which day and which time. That, however, leaves a fourth week during which I ignorantly and blissfully miss all sorts of things. I'm surprised the ortho is still willing to see my children.

 

I intend to try a fixed calendar/piece of paper with a daily todo list system with my children next year. There have been years when they dutifully used an assignment book, but they hate them and as soon as I switched to a weekly list of things for them to do (broken up into days - an attempt at transitioning them into keeping track and dividing up themselves), they abandoned it and I don't have the energy to enforce that on top of all the other things I'm trying to force them to do. I did use a planner in school. I wrote the assignments in my notebook and just jotted the subject name in the planner. I never broke up any big projects, just did them all at the end after I'd figured them out in my head, so this worked fine. I think probably my children are probably going to need a more complicated system, though, one that can handle doing things ahead of the panicky very last minute.

-Nan

[Chez J]

All of what you describe about a paper planner is why I use my iPhone calendar. I can set alarms for it to remind me. I can remind myself multiple times even - days out, then hours out. I want to find a similar one that is more educational/project management like.