I don't get it... VENT

[kchara]

I've always taken care of my stuff. Ever since I was little. My books and my Bible were precious to me. So I JUST. DON'T. GET IT. WHY do my kids have to destroy EVERYTHING? At the moment... they've lost their MUS DVD. Again. They refuse, absolutely refuse, to do their chores. If they do do them, it's half way. And their school supplies are in shambles. I can't even resell their old books that we no longer use, because they've destroyed them so much!! :cursing: I don't understand not taking care of your belongings. I've tried EVERYTHING I can think of. We give rewards (allowences) for doing chores and completing school... but they never do!! We have consequences (groundings, lost privileges, using their own money to pay for supplies lost/unusable anymore), but it doesn't matter!! They're so careless, they rip pages, they leave books out where the littles can get to them (even though we have a designated place for them where the littles CAN'T get them... that doesn't matter. And now I have to go pay for a ripped library book. :mad:), I give them organization supplies and HELP THEM set them up, so that they completely understand what's going on! They have checklists and routines and... ARGH!!!!! :banghead:

 

I'm at a loss. And not happy at the moment. I'm spending thousands upon thousands of dollars for them to just destroy everything we own.

[susankenny]

Honest question. Do they have too much stuff?

 

 

Susan

[A.J. at J.A.]

Honest question. Do they have too much stuff?

 

 

Susan

 

I was thinking along those lines. If they can't take care of their "stuff" - they don't get "stuff". If it is school stuff, then I would act like it is a school and be very rigid (as a teacher would) about telling the children, okay, time to put our stuff away. And then supervise as it happens. Unfortunately, it may be for a time that you would have to run it as a classroom - I know that is sad, because of the joy of homeschooling, but maybe it would be a good training mechanism.

 

If it is non-school stuff, then I would immediately remove everything from the room except the bed. Seriously. I suppose you could put their clothes somewhere else, and decide for them what clothes they would wear each day. If their dirty ones don't make it to the laundry basket/chute/room/whatever, then they can just wear those again.

 

Tough love, I think. I may be off, though, just what first came to mind.

 

So sorry for what you are going through.

Angela

[kchara]

Honest question. Do they have too much stuff?

 

 

Susan

 

No, honestly they don't!! In fact, when we moved in December, we left most of our stuff in Wyoming (we're in Kansas now). So they have roughly a quarter, if that, of what they did have! All of our toys (for 6 kids) fit in a large diaper box. Their schoolbooks are all in a tiny laundry like basket that I think was designed for single kids in dorms. That's pretty much the extent of what they have. Their books (outside of schoolbooks) are library books, b/c I left most of our books in Wyoming. They don't even have a whole lot of clothes... yet they both managed to take scissors (yes...scissors) to their jeans to cut holes in them. And we get by, but we're definitely not rich, so it's not like they get gifts constantly. Usually only on special holidays and birthdays. We didn't even do Christmas this year, b/c DH had lost his job. They are DEFINITELY not spoiled in that regard... so I don't understand why they don't take better care of what they have??:confused:

 

I'm so frustrated today. They've even torn pages out of their Bibles. I just don't understand why someone would treat their own property this way.

[Daisy]

I have no clue, but in my house they'd be in boot camp. Every moment of their lives would be scheduled and supervised by me. :grouphug:

[LibraryLover]

Can you limit their access to the school books? Have them work in one area, where you can see them?

[elegantlion]

Are they reacting out of stress? Would this be normal behavior if they had all of their things?

 

Just thinking out loud, we moved last year, dh was unemployed a lot, and most of our stuff is still in a different state. It's stressful. If ds were younger I think he'd be responding in a different manner. :grouphug:

[Anita in NC]

Have you shown them how to take care of their stuff?

 

For instance when my kids get a book out they have to put it back on the shelf when they are done. They only need to get one book out at a time. Having an assigned home for school books, craft items, pens, etc.... makes it a lot easier for the kids to put items away.

 

They must take care of the book and if they didn't THEY would be paying for a new one out of their allowance.

 

As far as chores, I personally don't assign set chores. However, if I want something done I just ask and they are expected to do it. If they don't it correctly they will do it over again until it is done correctly.

[merry gardens]

I hear you. I'm here instead of doing school right now because I told the children I wasn't going to work in that mess. They have half an hour to clean, then we will resume school.

 

A big part of the destruction in my home is from the littlest ones--toddlers and pre-schoolers. Children at a formal school don't have to worry about pre-schoolers taking things off their desks and ripping them apart. I spend a significant amount of time trying to organize our classroom materials in a way that the younger children won't destroy.

Another part is that we don't have a janitor devoted to the care of our school. At scheduled times, my children and I are the janitors. It might be easier to keep things neat if we had a professional, full-time janitorial staff.

 

Then there's the whole issue of our perception and memory. I thought I took care of better stuff too. Then I started to find a few things my mother saved, like books with my name scribbled on pages and a few strands of beads similar to the bead strands that my children sometimes destroy. My older sister can tell a story or two of me breaking something of hers, but I don't remember doing it. I do remember a very large box of broken crayons, and the rare treat of a new box of crayons.

 

In general, I think we took better care of our things in years past when we didn't have all this "stuff", but I also think that some things were better made and didn't fall apart. The things did fall apart were thrown away.

 

Child-proofing a children's homeschooling classroom is an exercise in frustration.

[kchara]

Child-proofing a children's homeschooling classroom is an exercise in frustration.

 

:iagree::grouphug:

 

I think I am going to work on scheduling them more. And part of it is the littles... they get into EVERYTHING. But... the big kids don't have to make it so darn easy for them to, either. :glare: I'm going to call school for the day. We couldn't even start, because we've been working on finding the math DVD for over 2 hours, and I have to make a WalMart run. So, I just quit for now. DH is going to have to help me think of things that we haven't done and get more creative, b/c I'm totally tapped out.

[elfgivas]

:grouphug:

 

do you know their myers-briggs type? i ask, because i have one enfp daughter, and am one myself, and the fastest way to get either of us to NOT do what is desired is to have checklists, rewards contingent on compliance, etc. the fastest way to get willing compliance is to put on good music, and all do chores together at the same time in the same room. by contrast, the next oldest in age is an isfj, and thrives on lists, wants to have a job specifically assigned to her and only her, and wants me to check it with her when she's done. we have four, and they all work differently.

 

but if all of them are the same, then its likely a systematic problem, too. you may need to choose one task, and think it through thoroughly and then explain it to them and then watch them do it for several days, and then check on it immediately thereafter several more days.

 

eg. its time for math. they are to go and get their pencils and their math books and their math dvd. they are to watch the MUS dvd and then turn off the tv, eject the dvd, put it back on the shelf beside the tv (proximity is key here i think), and then go to the table and do their math work. then they are to bring it to you for you to check it, do their corrections and then place the pencil in the pencil holder and the math books back in the bin. the first day, you would do it with them. the second day, you would stand and watch them do each step. ditto days three and four. on the final day of the week, you would say "time for math" and then wait three minutes and check to make sure they had their pencils, their books and the dvd in the player. you could spontaneously give out new pencils at this moment if they have done it (but don't say you are going to; just do it). then you would listen to see when the dvd ended, give them three minutes and then check to see if the dvd is back in the case and on the shelf. if it isn't, call them back and watch them do it. then they should automatically go to the table and do their work, bring it to you to check, and replace everything. again, check to make sure it all made it back without you reminding them, about three minutes after you check their corrections. next week, repeat. the following week, watch closely on the monday, and if its all unfolding well, you may just have a new habit. : )

 

the close watching makes me nuts, but not as nuts as their bad habits, kwim?

 

:grouphug:

ann

[Jean in Newcastle]

My kids would be doing chores to pay for the ruined things.

 

Ruin a library book? They pay the replacement fee to the library.

 

Ruin your clothes? You pay for any new clothes.

 

School things ruined? They pay for new ones.

 

The chores would be at mandatory times and would not be pleasant ones. I'm sure the garbage cans could use some scrubbing.

 

My kids don't take care of things either and I've done this. In my mind, this is vandalism (a mild kind but still vandalism).

 

I just want to add that all the above would be enforced matter-of-factly in a "Oh well, it's ruined so you need to replace it" sort of attitude.

[wendylee]

My kids would be doing chores to pay for the ruined things.

 

Ruin a library book? They pay the replacement fee to the library.

 

Ruin your clothes? You pay for any new clothes.

 

School things ruined? They pay for new ones.

 

The chores would be at mandatory times and would not be pleasant ones. I'm sure the garbage cans could use some scrubbing.

 

My kids don't take care of things either and I've done this. In my mind, this is vandalism (a mild kind but still vandalism).

 

I just want to add that all the above would be enforced matter-of-factly in a "Oh well, it's ruined so you need to replace it" sort of attitude.

 

Exactly. If the only consequence is Mom wringing her hands and groaning, why should they change their behavior? And this will not get better as time goes by.

 

Believe me, it will take an enormous amount of stress off your shoulders to be very matter of fact about their vandalism and lack of respect. Stop looking at it emotionally. Tell them if they destroy something, THEY WILL WORK TO REPLACE IT. They're getting something out of this, take that gratification away.

[AuntieM]

When I have found our family leaning towards that, I can trace it back to two things, very clearly: too much stuff and too little supervision.

 

Though your kids may currently have only a quarter of their usual stuff, they may still be practicing a habit they learned in the past.

 

To teach them your expectations, you have to go into prevention mode. Follow them around like a hound dog for about a week. Truly, as a mom you will have no life until they get the get-into-everything-make-a-mess-and-leave-it attitude straightened out, because you will either be busy supervising them or miserable because your nest is in a shambles.

 

There have been seasons where I've let things go, and in hindsight, I can look back on almost all of those times and admit that we would have all been happier if I had remained vigilant. Eventually it gets trained in.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: It really is frustrating. One of the biggest challenges to home schooling is not having some down time to keep the mess in check at your own pace rather than every minute of the day.

[lisamarie]

I have a DS like this who has taken scissors to my brand new 1 week old couch that I worked my bum off to get, his school shirts (when he was in school), his hair, and various other things. My DD5 cut up something this winter--can't for the life of me remember what it was--but she is no longer allowed to even touch scissors without supervision and she is always good about it now. DS7 is still a challenge and will do stupid things all the time because he just does not think about the consequences of his actions.

 

For him I make him replace what he destroys if he can afford it and if he's doing something stupid, I ask him if he has the $$$ to replace the thing he's in danger of breaking. He says no and stops what he's doing.

 

With DD5 who could not keep her room clean to save her life--I first took out half her toys. When she still couldn't keep it clean, I took away half of what was left. Now I make her pick it up every night before bed and it's staying mostly clean. (She didn't have that many toys to begin with, so it amazed me how she could trash her room like she did) My rule has always been--when I tell you to clean your room, whatever is left out when your time is up goes in the trash. My kids will say "we're done mom" and I always say "so whatever I find I can throw away?" "Maybe we'll keep cleaning.":tongue_smilie:

 

My best ideas are to 1. make them clean up their rooms every day. If they can't keep it clean, they have too much stuff in there and it should be purged. 2. Make them pick up the common areas every evening before dinner or bed. Along with the threat of you going behind them with the trash bag. If you don't want to throw stuff away, put it in time out until they either work it off or a specified amount of time passes. 3. If they destroy it, they replace it or go without.

[kchara]

They have nothing in their rooms. :glare: Just beds and clothes.

 

I do have a question though... in complete seriousness. How do I make them pay for something when they have no money? We took away allowences (which we were only giving so that they had money to pay for what they lost/destroyed anyway...) because they never finish their responsibilities. Today, I've conficated every. last. cent that they have (money my mom sent for Easter and the change they've found lying around) to replace stuff. My mom would have a stroke, but she disowned me by text last weekend, so it's not like she'll be calling soon. :glare:

 

I get so frustrated. I have all of these plans for things to do with them and for them... and they never happen because of stuff like this. Like today, planned on just calling the day, taking them to lunch, and going to WalMart. Maybe getting a treat on the way home if they behaved in WalMart.

 

Nope, can't do it. DD(9) can't find her shoes. Again. :banghead:

 

I want to start Meet the Masters with them... but I can't trust them to help me with the art supplies. I want to notebook more, because they seem to enjoy it, but their history and science notebooks are in complete shambles... pages ripped and torn out and missing. Why bother? I want them involved in things like Odyssey of the Mind and Scouts and other activities, but we can't even manage to get a science project done because even after I've bought all of the supplies, they're destroyed before I get a chance to use them!!!

 

I've shown them how, we've walked through it. Obviously, we have to again. This has been an ongoing problem for as long as I can remember, and I just don't know what I'm doing wrong. Something, obviously, I just don't know what. I'm going to see if I can't figure out their Myers-Briggs type, and maybe that will help. I've never done any sort of assessment like that on them.

 

Days like today, I just want to hide and :crying:. I put them all to bed, and the biggers know not to come down on pain of death. Gives me time to find some chocolate.

[Perry]

My older dd was like this. She wasn't exactly destructive, just very careless and extremely disorganized. We emptied out the room, worked with her (ad nauseum) on organizational skills, made checklists, gave incentives, tried punishments, etc. Nothing really worked.

 

She got better as she got older, but we recently started her on ADD meds, and it's really helped her figure out how to organize and take more care with things. In retrospect, I think she really just wasn't able to do it.

 

Any chance your kids have ADD?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I do have a question though... in complete seriousness. How do I make them pay for something when they have no money?

 

"The library book costs $10. Since both of you tore the book, you will each have to earn $5 in chores. This is what I want you to do to earn your $5 - wash the car. I will be supervising and helping you to do it correctly."

 

I do agree that you need to make sure there are not other things contributing - ADD, sensitivities to food dyes etc.

 

My dd9 has organizational problems. We are working on having constant checks - "Now that you got home from the library, what do we do with the library books?" etc.

 

Boredom is a problem for my dd9 too. She is destructive when she is bored. We are working on giving her constructive things to do, including a list of things to choose on her own.

[kchara]

My older dd was like this. She wasn't exactly destructive, just very careless and extremely disorganized. We emptied out the room, worked with her (ad nauseum) on organizational skills, made checklists, gave incentives, tried punishments, etc. Nothing really worked.

 

She got better as she got older, but we recently started her on ADD meds, and it's really helped her figure out how to organize and take more care with things. In retrospect, I think she really just wasn't able to do it.

 

Any chance your kids have ADD?

 

DS (8) is ADHD. He's being medicated, and is on supplements and we're watching his diet closely.

 

DD(9) is very probably ADD, not medicated, but on the supplement regimen and restricted diet, as well.

 

I think tonight, I'm going to head into town. Alone. And then I'm going to the bookstore and getting a really good book, then to the steakhouse and getting a really good steak and a Smirnoff Ice... and I'm going to relax until bedtime. At which point I'll head home to the peace and quiet of the house, and DH and I will sit down and try to get creative. I desperately need a :chillpill: tonight.

[merry gardens]

:iagree::grouphug:

 

I think I am going to work on scheduling them more. And part of it is the littles... they get into EVERYTHING. But... the big kids don't have to make it so darn easy for them to, either. :glare: I'm going to call school for the day. We couldn't even start, because we've been working on finding the math DVD for over 2 hours, and I have to make a WalMart run. So, I just quit for now. DH is going to have to help me think of things that we haven't done and get more creative, b/c I'm totally tapped out.

 

:grouphug:

 

I don't know how your homeschooling area is arranged, but I found school desks with lids helped a lot. Two of my children outgrew their old desk and we got some with lids. It provided them with storage for school materials that the toddler can't get into. We've had less trouble this year finding workbooks.

Something like this: http://edufurniture.com/products/Virco_Lift_Lid_Martest_21_Student_Desk_751M-9-18.html

 

Also, I take charge of our more expensive homeschool materials. I had what I thought was a great storage place, but the child-proof lock on the cabinet wasn't very effective. I re-located them to higher ground, and now the toddler can't reach them.

[ezrabean2005]

What is your kids' "currency"? What do they like to do? Screen time? Legos? Read a certain kind of book?

 

We've found that for each child, they have a different currency. It is what they love to do. So if they get a reward, it is likely to be in that currency. Likewise, if they are being deliberately rude / careless / thoughtless then those things are the first things taken away.

 

How are you and DH about caring for your things? Picking up things?

[Dawn in OH]

I've always taken care of my stuff. Ever since I was little. My books and my Bible were precious to me. So I JUST. DON'T. GET IT. WHY do my kids have to destroy EVERYTHING? At the moment... they've lost their MUS DVD. Again. They refuse, absolutely refuse, to do their chores. If they do do them, it's half way. And their school supplies are in shambles. I can't even resell their old books that we no longer use, because they've destroyed them so much!! :cursing: I don't understand not taking care of your belongings. I've tried EVERYTHING I can think of. We give rewards (allowences) for doing chores and completing school... but they never do!! We have consequences (groundings, lost privileges, using their own money to pay for supplies lost/unusable anymore), but it doesn't matter!! They're so careless, they rip pages, they leave books out where the littles can get to them (even though we have a designated place for them where the littles CAN'T get them... that doesn't matter. And now I have to go pay for a ripped library book. :mad:), I give them organization supplies and HELP THEM set them up, so that they completely understand what's going on! They have checklists and routines and... ARGH!!!!! :banghead:

 

I'm at a loss. And not happy at the moment. I'm spending thousands upon thousands of dollars for them to just destroy everything we own.

 

Wow, I don't remember writing this, but it sounds JUST LIKE ME!

[ktgrok]

It's an executive function issue. Think absent minded professor type. It really isn't that they are more careless, they just honestly are thinking about other things. I have found that rewards that are immediate (a quarter or nicklel every time they clean up the school supplies) works much better with this type of personality than a weekly allowance. I have this personality, and have to schedule small rewards into my day or my house would be a pig stye.

[ktgrok]

My kids would be doing chores to pay for the ruined things.

 

Ruin a library book? They pay the replacement fee to the library.

 

Ruin your clothes? You pay for any new clothes.

 

School things ruined? They pay for new ones.

 

The chores would be at mandatory times and would not be pleasant ones. I'm sure the garbage cans could use some scrubbing.

 

My kids don't take care of things either and I've done this. In my mind, this is vandalism (a mild kind but still vandalism).

 

I just want to add that all the above would be enforced matter-of-factly in a "Oh well, it's ruined so you need to replace it" sort of attitude.

 

I think it is fair to ask them to replace it, but I wouldn't expect this type of punishmen to change the behavior. I am just like the kids in the original post. Stuff gets ruined or lost all the time. I constantly have late fines at the library. Paying the fines, having to replace things, etc has not changed my behavior. Heck, what has happened is I don't buy myself nice stuff because I know I will end up ruining it or losing it. The only thing that helps is having a place designated for everything, but even that is not fool proof. Routine routine routine is probably the best bet.

[blakereese]

When I have found our family leaning towards that, I can trace it back to two things, very clearly: too much stuff and too little supervision.

 

 

I agree with this. Recently I have been upset with my kids for some of the same things. I realized that they are doing this when they are alone in their rooms, with lots of toys. I started to pack up some things so they would appreciate what they do have, and then try to spend a bit more "free time" with them during the day. That helps, but of course is not always possible.

 

 

I think kids don't understand the value of things and what it takes to obtain those things. And how would they? They don't have to work for anything.

 

:iagree: I know my kids are young, but it still so frustrating for me sometimes. On the one hand, I want them to be kids without the worries of money and how much things cost. But on the other hand, I want them to appreciate what they do have, and realize why they can't have anything they want. It's hard to find the happy medium.

 

Our biggest problem is the grandparents who show their love with "stuff"...but that is a whole other post. :glare: