Teen fakes pregnancy at school

[Jenny in Florida]

I agree with Ester Maria that such projects are more for individual enlightenment than that anything new and exciting will be added to the scientific community. If we used that criteria, we'd certainly never do a homeschool project like growing beans in a pot. There are useless experiments by "real" scientists going on everyday that cost millions of tax dollars. Those are far more aggravating to me. :glare:

 

Or, with apologies for raising what may be a sore subject, what about all of those "experiments" high school and homeschool students do every year that require sacrificing the lives of animals? All of those dissections are not advancing science in any way. They are demonstrations done for the sole purpose of educating individual students. And I can't even imagine the number of animals that die every year to make that possible.

 

Cruelty on that scale absolutely boggles my mind.

 

But this girl is the one who gets a bad rep?

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Again, Martha (and everyone else), what do you expect from a senior project / graduation thesis? 'cause I have pretty high academic expectations, and I don't expect any 18-19 yo to be doing genuinely new science for a graduation project, to break ice with new discoveries, to point out to what has not been pointed out before.

.

 

I agree with you on this. I have thought about what my unrest is with this whole thing and it goes back to my belief (whether politically correct or not) that this is not scholarship material nor is it particularly head line/national news worthy, except in it's ability to cause a stir. Would we or the media be having the same reactions to the story if she had been a high achieving, upper class, caucasian student? I am not trying to be inflammatory (and I am wearing my EM Fan club t-shirt) just asking.

[Paige]

My first thought when I read this story was that there was no way- no way at all!- that her research proposal would have passed the review board of a university. I think if her high school is going to encourage students to do research assignments, using human or animal subjects, that it is grossly irresponsible to allow research to be done by students without some sort of ethics board in charge. One principal does not qualify as a review board. While I think that the research she did, the way she did it, would not be approved, I do not think it was that horrible. What worries me, is the precedent she has set. This will make other students want to do big things too- which is fine- but without a review board with people who have a research and ethics background, the students could unknowingly get themselves into a big ethical mess! A well intentioned student, who does not have the proper guidance and oversight, who then conducts a sensational unethical project, could end up a pariah, and it will hurt his or her chances of being accepted into colleges and universities.

[Danestress]

I would not expect that from a senior project. I would love to see the thesis she writes on this, assuming they had to write a thesis.

 

I agree with you that this is really a 'where to you draw the line" thing on justifying lying. Most of us have situations where we might lie. If I am hiding Anne Frank in my attic, I am lying to protect her. Over and over, all day, even to my mother. Sorry Mom.

 

So I don't think all lying is always bad in every situation, but because I have a flexible stand on lying, I am looking at it situationally. In THIS situation, could I justify lying? If it were my daughter, I could not. I could not allow my own parents and other children to endure months of lying. I don't see any great "scientific" outcome that would justify it. I think that's why the "value to science" thing keeps coming up - not because we think it's inadequate for a senior project, but because if it were ground-breaking scientifically, it might make us see more justification for the months of deceit. In other words, if someone really benefited significantly (Anne Frank, people with cancer, pregnant girls) we would be more likely to weigh in favor of the lies. I think the significant issue for some people, then, is "does this change the lives of pregnant girls in a way that will make the ends worth the means?" And part of that weighing process will be "how wrong is lying?" Is it a serious sin or just a tool that should be used sparingly?

 

And if it were my daughter, I would want to find a way to do a senior project that helped people (if that's her goal) without hurting anyone. I can think of all sorts of big projects that she could take on that would educate about teen pregnancy, support teens Moms, fight for change in the schools regarding teen Moms, etc. I could think of things she could do that would be creative, life changing, enriching, and would build and edify relationships rather than destroying them.

[Murphy101]

I would not expect that from a senior project. I would love to see the thesis she writes on this, assuming they had to write a thesis.

 

And if it were my daughter, I would want to find a way to do a senior project that helped people (if that's her goal) without hurting anyone. I can think of all sorts of big projects that she could take on that would educate about teen pregnancy, support teens Moms, fight for change in the schools regarding teen Moms, etc. I could think of things she could do that would be creative, life changing, enriching, and would build and edify relationships rather than destroying them.

 

:iagree:

[LibraryLover]

I didn't simply say "Well it could have been worse." It was a *high school* sociology project, not a Standford or Oxford post grad thesis, after all. There is some wiggle room for imperfection. ;)

 

I also don't feel comfortable with such harsh words for such young woman, not to mention the speculation and assumption within this thread (not saying you said this, M) about how his family mourned the death of a baby or whatnot...

 

Where's the proof for all of that, since we are holding this high school student to such an impossible standard?

 

 

:001_huh:

As for "well it could have been worse."

 

I don't have much tolerance for that in my home. Every single kid in my home has more expected of him/her than to not do drugs or commit murder and mayhem. I extend that to every other child outside my home. They are absolutely capable of more than the low expectations people lead them to believe.

Edited April 25, 2011 by LibraryLover

[cindergretta]

I also don't feel comfortable with such harsh words for such young woman, and all of this speculation and assumption...

 

I am not sure how the media got involved, whether she involved them, the school, or what, BUT - once the media IS involved, people ARE going to talk, and judge.

 

And wasn't the point here to shed light on the situation? That involves people making value judgements on both the experiment and the experimenter.

 

Once the "general public" are involved, you can't really stop the train wreck. It was brought up here on this forum for discussion. People are discussing. Some of it is harsh, but that is the opinion of the poster, to which they have a right.

 

If this girl was concerned about being harshly judged, she either wouldn't have done this experiment OR she wouldn't have allowed it to go public, which would be hard, given the scope.

[Nakia]

I am obviously not as emotionally invested in this as some of you are, and I still don't really get it, but that's okay. I agree completely with danestress's last post. I firmly believe that the end does not always justify the means.

[LibraryLover]

I finally read the whole thread, Yes, EM. I like this. Ester Marie wrote:

 

"A) I agree. But, so does nearly any topic which was used for a high school project that I know of. I do not think inventing new science should be a criterion for topics for graduation papers.

B) Maybe. But, does it mean that we pose a criterion that the way kids do those projects has to be useful and not crummy? Because nearly all graduation theses and projects done on this level of education that I know of are certainly useless in real scientific context and certainly crummy, in that they cannot compete with real science and the professional way of doing things. And very often they are pretentious and dramatic, just like people who write them at that stage of life. ;)

 

I get where you are coming from, I really believe that I do; I just still find that in this instance the girl is faced with, maybe, too harsh criticism. Or at least criticism which is not mitigated with a recognition that there is an aspect of courage and determination to carry out such a project and, if the project is indeed done on a good academic level, recognition for

[cindergretta]

Could someone please explain the "courage" part? How is it courageous to fake a pregnancy? I am NOT being snarky. I just don't get it. She was perpetrating a HUGE lie. Now that would take some courage. But I know that isn't what is being labeled courageous.

 

Being a pregnant teen who completes school is courageous. How is faking it courageous? Because she was going to face harsh criticism when this came out?

 

Anyway, I am genuinely curious about the courage involved.

[Ester Maria]

Could someone please explain the "courage" part? How is it courageous to fake a pregnancy? I am NOT being snarky. I just don't get it.

It is courageous to go out of your comfort zone for the sake of a senior project, to do something which will affect almost literally every moment of your life in the period of six months, not to give up no matter how badly people react (i.e. stay within her "role") and to actually carry out such a project.

 

Contrast that with your average 20ish page pretentious nonsense (and most high school graduation theses are pretentious nonsense from the standpoint of "serious" academic work, which also does not "say anything new"), purely theoretical, which does not affect your life in the least, except for the fact that you have to invest a certain number of hours in researching it and writing it. At the end of the day, you can always stop reading and go out (and people do that), then come back to it refreshed. It does not affect your whole life, only some of your time. Every teen can do that, and do that well... but to do what this kid did, I suspect very few would have a determination needed to endure it. So there is a moment of "courage" in it.

[AngelBee]

Her project was about Rumors, Stereotypes and Bias. Some of the answers on THIS very thread reveal exactly why she did this.

 

I agree with kalanamak. And, I think that few here see the huge WHY of her reasoning. She was trying to uncover and to get people to talk about, the huge stygma, stereotypes and biases that STILL surround teen pregnancy.

 

 

There is a huge double standard in this country: Don't abort, but if you stay pregnant we will shun you while smiling at you and saying that we want to help you. :glare: (But, deep down we think that you are irresponsible and probably won't make it to college.)

 

This was a Straight-A student and people STILL thought that about her!

 

 

ETA: I don't see any evidence that she defrauded people by having showers, gifts, etc I think that her principle would have put a stop to that if it were even suggested.

 

Quote from a different article:

 

“Her intent was to explore people’s reactions if a top student, someone you wouldn’t expect, were to get pregnant. She started a conversation.â€

Clapping and cheering in total :iagree:

 

Total double standard.

 

And about being a liar.....do you say the same of people working undercover for news stories and police work?

[AngelBee]

Yep. I feel like we go out of our way to make it difficult for teen parents to make the best of it. We take those who are most in need of social and financial support and withhold it as punishment. Then shake our heads as the cycle continues through generations.

 

Many many teens make bad decisions with potentially life-changing consequences. Some are just luckier than others about the results of those decisions.

:iagree:

[cindergretta]

It is courageous to go out of your comfort zone for the sake of a senior project, to do something which will affect almost literally every moment of your life in the period of six months, not to give up no matter how badly people react (i.e. stay within her "role") and to actually carry out such a project.

 

 

 

But that sounds like it takes a lot of courage to continue to perpetuate a lie, even as it gets hard and uncomfortable. ::think:: She wasn't actually pregnant. The only thing affecting her actual life is the lie, not the pregnancy. And now dealing with the lie, not a pregnancy.

 

So it still seems like we are lauding her courage to lie and keep it up. ::think::

[AngelBee]

The boyfriend's parents needed to be involved in this, IMO. Without their involment, her experiment comes across as somewhat... cruel. After all, we are talking about people who would have been very affected in their private lives had the situation been real, and they were probably "afforded" a whole emotional rollercoaster of such a situation, with all it implies, at the cost of... of what, a senior project? Maybe, just maybe, the emotional cost for those people is just not worth a social experiment?

 

HOWEVER, I will be an odd dissenter when it comes to the general sentiment in this thread. I actually find her idea brilliant and it would have been set up for a failure had many people known. I still believe some people, who would have been directly affected by the situation, should have known, but on the whole, her idea is not that problematic in my eyes, as long as she did not commit any, strictly speaking, illegal acts in the process (such as "using" her supposed pregnant status to receive some sort of financial aid or services - but I doubt that would have even been possible as no doctor would have supported her claim and issued her necessary documents to do so?). If it was just a little "game" of her, but without official misrepresentation, without using her "status" to claim something, etc., we may debate whether it was a moral thing to do to her whole surrounding, but it is a whole different story. Furthermore, please do not that she lost friends in the process, so as far as I am concerned, the girl did herself a favor this way - definitely not the most "ethical" way to "test" a friend, but she did end up experiencing her situation in some way. It takes guts to do such an experiment, even if we disagree with the method. Also, from a "teacher" standpoint, it is a whole lot of a more engaging, creative and just plain harder senior project than your average 20ish page pretentious and ill-researched nonsense of the kind that were most graduation theses from lycees that I read.

 

Personally... I know people who did theses and research on stuff like this. Social experiments are tough, real people are always going to be affected, and I definitely do not deny that there is a moral aspect to the whole story. But frankly, the experiment when two teachers got classes with similar IQ distribution among kids and one was told kids were extra-geniuses and other was told kids were less-than-smart, and then both observed in how they behaved towards them, set their expectations and how kids' grades got up/down, etc., was also an experiment involving real people, real kids and parents, who were definitely affected in some way - it was not some theoretical gibberish somebody wrote somewhere which you can step away from and continue your life, but it was a real experiment on real people who were really affected and could not just "step away" from the situations they were intentionally drawn into, and as much good it was for the kids in the first group, I am sure those who were in the second suffered. The experiment in which somebody tried to see how easy it was to fake all personal documents and to fake a history of a company to get a fancy loan by some bank was also conducted involving fraud related to real people and institutions which could have suffered a tangible damage (which again would have been reflected on real people). Do not even get me started on educational experiments (all the "modern pedagogy" mostly) which tangibly affected numbers of children. Real children. Who were/are suffering real educational consequences of having been somebody's guinea pigs (after all, is this "experimental" nature of public schooling not the reason many people here withdrew their kids from schools?).

 

You know, the more I think about, the more I get reminded how much actual fraud and actual harm, intended harm, many of those experiments involve(d), what this kid did was definitely within the realm of "passable" for me. I still hold, uncompromisingly, that the boyfriend's parents should have known, but as much as other people are concerned - even her friends who did her a favor by showing their real faces in a situation of a friend in need of support - this is actually pretty good and one of the less dangerous experiments I have known about. Most people were involved "indirectly" and their lives would not have profoundly changed had the situation been real, i.e. the had the option of "stepping away", which many of them seem to have gladly opted to do. And the kid got her point across.

 

If you are shocked by this story, you should see some of the real fraud that goes on there for research purposes in social sciences. From entirely faked, purposely gibberish papers to prove a point (aka Sokal affair, but not the only time it happened), which of course affect real people who publish them and brings about real shame and cost to them, to long-term experiments in which they know somebody is going to get affected negatively. Natural sciences have it even worse, with all the tests on placebo where they fool patients into thinking they are getting their medicine, etc. And you really think that the patients know they are a part of the experiment all the time? Sometimes not knowing the experiment is being conducted is crucial to its success... like in this story. As long as the girl did not cross her lines (and IMO she crossed at least one, with her boyfriend's parents, but that was primarily his responsibility anyway), she is actually pretty... good, compared to stuff out there.

 

And the saddest thing is, if you disapprove of all experiments of that kind, you really are hindering the progress of science. Because the teacher's attitude does matter and real kids get better if the teacher treats them as if they were more intelligent than they are... and vice-versa proved true too. Because stealing identity is doable, in spite of all the security measures we have - and maybe those experiments showed some additional gaps. Because people really are stereotyping, ostracitizing and shunning teenage moms, and view them through the prism of "irresponsibility", even if there is a theoretical possibility that their behavior was a product of a single mistake we all could have made. Because placebo often does work as well as a medicine, which is a powerful information for those involved in brain research. Those experiments conducted on real people brought about some real questions and advancements in understanding of how brain / social relationships / whatnot works. And it might as well be a nice wake-up call for those that shunned her, showing them their own prejudices - better to go through that wake-up call sooner then later. Or never.

 

Do not get me wrong. There IS an ethical concern to such experiments on real people and I am not denying it. But viewing them exclusively through that prism might be misleading. Often such experiments involve a mix of good and bad, rather than exclusively bad. It is easy to moralize, viewing a bigger picture of these experiments is the tough thing, if you condemn this, you are basically condemning the whole principle on which many of them are made which, yes, includes purposeful deceit.

Though, again, I emphasize it, the boyfriend's parents had to know about this in my view and that was truly an inconsiderate thing to do to them. It was possible to conduct the same experiment while not having them going through all those strong emotions that parents would go through if they thought they were to have a grandchild.

 

I will probably get totally flamed for this response (I am nearly afraid of posting) and accused of supporting deceit and whanot, but, aside the boy's parents not knowing (I still cannot go over what fact!), I think the kid was courageous, innovative for her age and surroundings and definitely made her point loud and clear - a successful senior project in my book. Yes, ethically problematic, as any experiment of that type, and yes, "dramatic" as teens get, but she did nothing others have not done before and will not do in the future.

:iagree:

[cindergretta]

And about being a liar.....do you say the same of people working undercover for news stories and police work?

 

I think this is apples and oranges. Undercover doesn't hurt the people who trust you. It doesn't involve lying to your family and friends. It doesn't involve deceiving the community as a whole. It involves (with an ethics review) going into a specific situation to find out the truth and expose criminals or misdeeds or injustices. Now I realize pregnant teens are subject to injustice, but she didn't need to go "undercover" to find that out. She wasn't seeking to right an *institutional* wrong or reveal the nefarious behaviour of school officials against pregnant teens.

[AngelBee]

I'm with you on both counts, that the project was interesting and worthwhile and that the boyfriend's parents absolutely should have known.

 

By the way, it's not something I talk about a lot, but I was a pregnant teen. I went to college and got a job and everything. There are a lot of misconceptions (no pun intended) and broad generalizations being stated in this thread.

Thank you for being a great mama and making a good life for your little one. I am proud of you for sharing that with us.

 

I was an unmarried mama at age 21. It was difficult even at that age and many saw it no different than if I had been a teen.

 

Amazingly, there are family who still think I am a whore and will not speak to me. This by people who engaged in unmarried sexual activity, but for some reason the "pregnant" part is what actually qualifies you for the whore title. And they are VERY prolife.

 

It is a damaging double standard and I pray more young woman are brave enough to stand up and discuss the stigma that surrounds being a young unmarried mother.

[AngelBee]

I wanted to share my own personal experience.

 

I got pregnant when I was 17. I was not an irresponsible person. I graduated third in my class. I was on the honor roll every semester throughout high school. I was first chair in my section in the high school band, played in numberous honor bands, and was assistant drum major during my junior and senior years. I graduated with two academic scholarships and a music scholarship.

 

My mom was an alcoholic and my dad was abusive when he was home, though he was deployed for my entire senior year. During that time, my Mom went downhill significantly. She lost jobs, she quit paying bills, she quit going to the supermarket. She wrecked a vehicle. She spent our mortgage payment on booze. Being the eldest, I took up her slack. I took over the checkbook, I paid the bills (by forging her signature on checks), I went to the supermarket every Saturday and bought groceries for the week. I cooked, I cleaned, I did laundry. I helped my siblings with their homework, and I attended their doctor appointments and teacher conferences at school. We got the yard work done. I maintained the working vehicle. I took the dogs to the vet. I did all of the little things and the big things that moms are supposed to do for an entire year.

 

I asked for help. I asked my father; I asked relatives. I went to my high school principal. I received no help, not even when my mother showed up drunk at the high school in a short, silky nighty and stumbled up and down the halls looking for my. My principal just called me out of class and asked me to take my mother home but, hey, she gave me an excused absence for the morning so I guess that counted for something...

 

Throughout this entire year I held a job as well as maintained my GPA.

 

But, I made a mistake. I met a 20 year old soldier from the local base whom I ended up sleeping with for all of the wrong reasons. I got pregnant. Was I an irresponsible person? I don't think so. In fact, I think I was a very responsible person. I was the most responsible person in my own life or the lives of my siblings. I made one irresponsible decision.

:grouphug: Thank you for sharing your story.

[AngelBee]

Wth? I've been with my dh for 21 years and I have ever once been given accolades or respect for being pregnant. It honestly never occurred to me that ANYONE deserves accolades or respect because they happen to be walking proof that they had sex?:confused:

 

 

That is a shame if you have never experienced that.

 

Every baby deserves to be treated with that kind of excitement. And every mama who decides to carry that life, should be praised, respected, and given accolades. Regardless of mothers age, religion, nationality, race.

 

This is why so many prochoice people think us prolifers are a crock. We carry our own bizzare biases regarding pregnancy and who should and shouldn't be pregnant.

[cindergretta]

This is why so many prochoice people think us prolifers are a crock. We carry our own bizzare biases regarding pregnancy and who should and shouldn't be pregnant.

 

Amen. Kind of a tragic dichotomy. ::sigh::

[annandatje]

My sociology major college student did an experiment where he posed as a wheelchair-bound person to gain a clearer understanding of what life was like for a mobilely (word?) disabled person.

 

I truly doubt that the boyfriends' parents were in the dark despite what was reported.

 

Both experiments remind me of less elaborate version of Griffin's "Black Like Me." We can read and observe others' experiences but there is no substitute for first hand experience.

[snickelfritz]

Originally Posted by AngelBee

This is why so many prochoice people think us prolifers are a crock. We carry our own bizzare biases regarding pregnancy and who should and shouldn't be pregnant.

 

 

I can still remember venting about the non-support shown to a friend who got pregnant while single. She had gone to a church her entire life. She even got married before the baby was born. There was no shower. One person brought a meal. Another friend explained exactly why her pastor father and her mother would do the exact same thing. Don't want to celebrate the sinful behavior.:confused:

[AngelBee]

Amen. Kind of a tragic dichotomy. ::sigh::

:iagree::(

[AngelBee]

My sociology major college student did an experiment where he posed as a wheelchair-bound person to gain a clearer understanding of what life was like for a mobilely (word?) disabled person.

 

I truly doubt that the boyfriends' parents were in the dark despite what was reported.

 

Both experiments remind me of less elaborate version of Griffin's "Black Like Me." We can read and observe others' experiences but there is no substitute for first hand experience.

Bolded to show :iagree:

[AngelBee]

I can still remember venting about the non-support shown to a friend who got pregnant while single. She had gone to a church her entire life. She even got married before the baby was born. There was no shower. One person brought a meal. Another friend explained exactly why her pastor father and her mother would do the exact same thing. Don't want to celebrate the sinful behavior.:confused:

That is tragic and unchristian. Makes me wanna cry!

 

Can you imagine Jesus shaming her like that? :confused:

 

EVERY SINGLE CHILD IS A BLESSING!

[Murphy101]

That is tragic and unchristian. Makes me wanna cry!

 

Can you imagine Jesus shaming her like that? :confused:

 

EVERY SINGLE CHILD IS A BLESSING!

 

I agree. She made a mistake and is working to make it right. There isn't much more anyone can do when they make any kind of mistake.

 

That said, my sympathy is hard won.

 

Because MANY people who wouldn't treat an unwed mother that way have no qualms about "discouraging" those couples who keep having babies.:glare:

[Impish]

That is tragic and unchristian. Makes me wanna cry!

 

Can you imagine Jesus shaming her like that? :confused:

 

EVERY SINGLE CHILD IS A BLESSING!

My mother wasn't a Christian when I was having Diva. She told me point blank that she wouldn't host a shower or allow anyone else to (I hadn't asked!) b/c she wouldn't be seen as 'condoning my behaviour'. I was 25.

[Mejane]

I think this is apples and oranges. Undercover doesn't hurt the people who trust you. It doesn't involve lying to your family and friends. It doesn't involve deceiving the community as a whole.

 

Completely disagree here. Obviously you don't know anyone who works undercover. Or has top-secret military or government clearance, the I-could-tell-you-but-then-I'd-have-to-kill-you kind.

[AngelBee]

I agree. She made a mistake and is working to make it right. There isn't much more anyone can do when they make any kind of mistake.

 

That said, my sympathy is hard won.

 

Because MANY people who wouldn't treat an unwed mother that way have no qualms about "discouraging" those couples who keep having babies.:glare:

This is why when I was a young, single, and unmarried mama I spoke to Catholic confirmation classes about "What is sex?".

 

There is this misconception about how far you can go before it actually counts. Or that one time doesn't count. :confused: Or if you pull out....or....you get the point.

 

It is all sex. All of it. And if you participate in those activities, you can end up with a son like me. (And that is actually one of the better consequences that can occur now days.)

 

His father and I never had any penitration. But there he was. A beautiful baby who deserved to have two parents that were committed to eachother and to him.

 

He still pays the price daily for my decision to blur lines. My dh and I have paid 15, 000 in the last year on court fees regarding custody with bio father and only made 30,000 in that year. :(

 

But I would never change having him.:001_wub: He made me the woman I am today.

 

Education and discussion BEFORE sex happens is the key.

 

Once they are pregnant, they don't need a lecture, I told you so, or dirty looks.

 

They need a hug.

Edited April 25, 2011 by AngelBee

[Mejane]

I can still remember venting about the non-support shown to a friend who got pregnant while single. She had gone to a church her entire life. She even got married before the baby was born. There was no shower. One person brought a meal. Another friend explained exactly why her pastor father and her mother would do the exact same thing. Don't want to celebrate the sinful behavior.:confused:

 

And then they wonder why girls sneak off and get abortions. You really can't win with some people.

[cindergretta]

Completely disagree here. Obviously you don't know anyone who works undercover. Or has top-secret military or government clearance, the I-could-tell-you-but-then-I'd-have-to-kill-you kind.

 

Seriously?! And you are actually wrong. My father was a cop. And he did do undercover work. He never had to lie to my mother or my sister or me. He couldn't necessarily tell us if he was undercover OR what he was doing, but that *never* extended to fabricating a whole lie of a life and forcing us (without knowing anything) to participate in it and have the rug yanked out from under us later.

 

I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you? :lol: Whateva!

 

(I supposed she could have told her siblings and his parents and used this line! :lol: )

[AngelBee]

My mother wasn't a Christian when I was having Diva. She told me point blank that she wouldn't host a shower or allow anyone else to (I hadn't asked!) b/c she wouldn't be seen as 'condoning my behaviour'. I was 25.

:grouphug: I am so sorry that happened to you.

 

I have had SIX pregnancies/babies.

 

NOT ONE has been greeted with joy and excitement. NOT ONE. :(

 

First, I was unmarried.

 

Second, unmarried.

 

Third, having troubles in relationship with dad (same as #2 and becomes my dh eventually)

 

Fourth unmarried and poor (according to others).....become married legally during this pregnancy (believe I was married all along as we were committed and felt that way. Decided I wanted people to see my witness as genuine and we were married in the Catholic church and obviously legally. lol )

 

Fifth, poor, and had too many children. (Married though ;) )

 

Sixth, poor and too many children.

 

I have been called irresponsible EVERY TIME.

 

And you know what? I am a darn good mama! It is not right. :(

[AngelBee]

And then they wonder why girls sneak off and get abortions. You really can't win with some people.

:iagree::(

[cindergretta]

((((AngelBee))))

 

We never get congrats or any joy either. It's like, "Not another one?!"

 

Even with #3... ::sigh::

[Mejane]

I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you? :lol: Whateva!

 

 

 

My cousin has top-level military security clearance. He tells his family nothing. His wife doesn't even know where he is half the time. There are many different levels of undercover including those where the agent fabricates a completely new life in order to infiltrate. I come from a long line of NYC Irish cops, too. Your experience, and that of your dad, is not universal. But whateva! backatcha. ;)

[Impish]

((((AngelBee))))

 

We never get congrats or any joy either. It's like, "Not another one?!"

 

Even with #3... ::sigh::

MIL threw a fit when we told her Princess was on her way. God had told her we were supposed to adopt, not have more babies. I told her apparently He changed His mind, and forgot to tell her.

 

At one point she told me that "The Lord giveth and He taketh away" and to prepare myself for *not* having the baby. :glare:

[AngelBee]

((((AngelBee))))

 

We never get congrats or any joy either. It's like, "Not another one?!"

 

Even with #3... ::sigh::

:grouphug:

[cindergretta]

My cousin has top-level military security clearance. He tells his family nothing. His wife doesn't even know where he is half the time. There are many different levels of undercover including those where the agent fabricates a completely new life in order to infiltrate. I come from a long line of NYC Irish cops, too. Your experience, and that of your dad, is not universal. But whateva! backatcha. ;)

 

I get it. What I *don't* get is what lies your family is implicated in (without their knowledge and consent and that involve emotional manipulation) due to anyone being undercover?? :confused:

[AngelBee]

MIL threw a fit when we told her Princess was on her way. God had told her we were supposed to adopt, not have more babies. I told her apparently He changed His mind, and forgot to tell her.

 

At one point she told me that "The Lord giveth and He taketh away" and to prepare myself for *not* having the baby. :glare:

YOU ARE KIDDING ME!?!?!?

 

:blink::banghead:

[cindergretta]

MIL threw a fit when we told her Princess was on her way. God had told her we were supposed to adopt, not have more babies. I told her apparently He changed His mind, and forgot to tell her.

 

At one point she told me that "The Lord giveth and He taketh away" and to prepare myself for *not* having the baby. :glare:

 

Uh, is she related to my mom? When she found out I was pg, she said, "Oh! I prayed the Lord would close your womb!" :glare: (I later miscarried. :( When I conceived again, she informed me the night before labor that she was praying that if anything went wrong, she hoped the baby would die and not me!) So some folks have NO filter... :001_huh:

[AngelBee]

Uh, is she related to my mom? When she found out I was pg, she said, "Oh! I prayed the Lord would close your womb!" :glare: (I later miscarried. :( When I conceived again, she informed me the night before labor that she was praying that if anything went wrong, she hoped the baby would die and not me!) So some folks have NO filter... :001_huh:

My moms response to #4?

 

"That is f***ing horrible!" :( :crying:

[Impish]

YOU ARE KIDDING ME!?!?!?

 

:blink::banghead:

I couldn't make this crap up. Seriously.

Uh, is she related to my mom? When she found out I was pg, she said, "Oh! I prayed the Lord would close your womb!" :glare: (I later miscarried. :( When I conceived again, she informed me the night before labor that she was praying that if anything went wrong, she hoped the baby would die and not me!) So some folks have NO filter... :001_huh:

Yeah, she's just...something. *shaking head*

[LibraryLover]

Hey, we thought my Dad was an accountant, but he was really an undercover federal agent. My mom, too. Here they are:

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cinemovies.fr/images/data/photos/6246/true-lies-1994-6246-1051722021.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cinemovies.fr/photog-70377-7.html&usg=__mql50MbAv5o3fYQExyOfjjFWev4=&h=433&w=650&sz=105&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=g_USSeIHXpUsLM:&tbnh=162&tbnw=216&ei=tLq1Tan7L8OU0QHFy6SRCQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Darnold%2Bschwarzenegger%2BJamie%2Blee%2Bcurtis%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26rlz%3D1T4ADSA_enUS417US417%26biw%3D1659%26bih%3D798%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=573&vpy=424&dur=968&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=106&ty=136&page=1&ndsp=37&ved=1t:429,r:21,s:0

 

 

;)

 

 

My cousin has top-level military security clearance. He tells his family nothing. His wife doesn't even know where he is half the time. There are many different levels of undercover including those where the agent fabricates a completely new life in order to infiltrate.

 

Edited April 25, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Jenny in Florida]

Thank you for being a great mama and making a good life for your little one. I am proud of you for sharing that with us.

 

Thank you for your kind words. Unfortunately, my story doesn't have a completely happy ending. My parents were so "supportive" that they eventually drove a wedge between my daughter and me. She ran away to live with them when she was a teenager, and we've had very little contact since then.

 

I tried very hard to be a good mother, despite not having a great role model in that regard. But, in the end, what kid wouldn't prefer to live with indulgent grandparents who promise you everything and require nothing of you than parents (because, by the time she left, I had reunited with her father, who is now my husband) who actually parent.

 

Being a young, unmarried mom is hard. Any attempt to get at that realistically, instead of either glamorizing or stimatizing, gets an "A" in my book.

[Mejane]

Hey, we thought my Dad was an accountant, but he was really an undercover federal agent. My mom, too. &um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=573&vpy=424&dur=968&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=106&ty=136&page=1&ndsp=37&ved=1t:429,r:21,s:0

 

 

;)

 

"When he said I do, he never said what he did." :D

[AngelBee]

Thank you for your kind words. Unfortunately, my story doesn't have a completely happy ending. My parents were so "supportive" that they eventually drove a wedge between my daughter and me. She ran away to live with them when she was a teenager, and we've had very little contact since then.

 

I tried very hard to be a good mother, despite not having a great role model in that regard. But, in the end, what kid wouldn't prefer to live with indulgent grandparents who promise you everything and require nothing of you than parents (because, by the time she left, I had reunited with her father, who is now my husband) who actually parent.

 

Being a young, unmarried mom is hard. Any attempt to get at that realistically, instead of either glamorizing or stimatizing, gets an "A" in my book.

Saying a prayer for you and your daughters relationship. :grouphug:

[snipsnsnailsx5]

:grouphug: I am so sorry that happened to you.

 

I have had SIX pregnancies/babies.

 

NOT ONE has been greeted with joy and excitement. NOT ONE. :(

 

First, I was unmarried.

 

Second, unmarried.

 

Third, having troubles in relationship with dad (same as #2 and becomes my dh eventually)

 

Fourth unmarried and poor (according to others).....become married legally during this pregnancy (believe I was married all along as we were committed and felt that way. Decided I wanted people to see my witness as genuine and we were married in the Catholic church and obviously legally. lol )

 

Fifth, poor, and had too many children. (Married though ;) )

 

Sixth, poor and too many children.

 

I have been called irresponsible EVERY TIME.

 

And you know what? I am a darn good mama! It is not right. :(

 

So sorry you've had to go through this too. :( I can totally relate. My first I was too young and unmarried, my second was still too young and not married yet (but got married a couple months after I found out I was PG), my third was too many children....same with my fourth and fifth.

Never any joy in telling the grandparents about pregnancies in this house. :(:grouphug: