How do you teach your boys? Can we start an ideas thread?

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

Nathanael sounds like a lovable young man, by the way. :D (In fact, I like your description of him so much that I would have proposed my eldest for a shidduch if it had been Rambam instead of Aquinas. ;) Joking, of course, but he does sound lovely.)

 

!!!! That made me laugh outloud! Thank you :)

[Stratford]

This is a great thread for a gal like me, with a houseful of boys....making lots of mental notes for later. (We love our trampoline, BTW. Best money I've spent in a long time.)

[stripe]

They also had 'dunces' in schools and poor or 'stupid' boys who didn't go to school at all. Sometimes I shudder to think that my boys would have probably been in one of those categories back then, just because either our income or the schooling method did not suit.

I feel the same way.

 

...Those schools were for boys, right? Because back then they thought girls didn't need that kind of education and weren't fit for it anyway.

Indeed.

 

And even in the first part of the 20th century, all the years and decades that boys outperformed girls academically, and the prevailing theory was that males were smarter and better suited to abstract thought than females... there weren't mini trampolines in the schools then, were there? Because I keep hearing that schools were more demanding, more academic, less dumbed-down, less touchy-feely, et cetera, back then.

Were their supposed needs for movement being met by schools, though? And weren't there lots of opportunities for, say, recess that have been removed from the modern school? I keep coming across segments in old books (such as Understood Betsy or Anne of Green Gables and several others) where the boys in particular go off on very energetic romps through the woods during breaks, while girls sit on a log and dress their dolls or make daisy chains or whatever.

 

I don't get why schools are suddenly seen as being "made for girls," when historical analysis shows quite clearly that they were made for boys. Is it just because girls are outperforming boys in some subjects and closing the achievement gap in others? And that couldn't be because girls are smart and work hard - it has to be because boys are being unfairly disadvantaged in some way?

Good point. But I think the norms have been redefined. Now girlish behavior is in some areas normal, and energetic romping is seen as requiring medication.

 

So if old school = drilling, math tables, rugby, cold showers and frequent paddling, and new school = group projects, coloring, cheerleading, and self-esteem, then I guess we've embraced girls: Our idea of what girls are and should be doing.

 

I think honestly many people find children to be bothersome. The old solution was, I think, to have girls sit quietly in the corner doing embroidery while the boys were shipped off to boarding school at age 7. Today, the bother comes from boys. And the solution is, in many cases, a nice, big pill.

[Hedgehogs4]

If it were just my 6 year old (who is quite compliant), it wouldn't be an issue. Throw in 2 younger boys who are still being trained, it is one. The 3 year old (at the time) would be rolling the ball (never left the ground and wasn't even going fast), and it would knock over the 1 year old. The rule ended up having to be that no one touches the ball. The ball was bigger than the 1 year old. It just plain wasn't safe with a 3 year old who is very active, and there wasn't anything they could DO with the ball except roll it around, which does damage. They couldn't sit on it. It was too big. That's why I asked if you people were using a smaller exercise ball.

 

And let me tell you, there is such a huge difference between the behavior of ONE boy and 2 or 3 together. It's like they feed off each other's energy! I am just now starting to get them calm when together. They are perfectly fine by themselves.

 

Mine also do not destroy the house unless I'm just not watching the younger ones well enough. They're getting better though. It's taken a LOT of time and training, plus lots of "tomato staking". ;) My first son was relatively easy to train. The second one is a whole different ball of wax. Thankfully, the third one is a bit more like my first, so there is hope. :D

 

:lol:...well I'll admit that under those conditions I would not arm my son with an exercise ball, either! I guess I forget what it's like when they're that size.

[RoundAbout]

They had shorter and fewer school days, and more exercise and hard work before and after school. Just those two differences would go a long way.

 

 

 

DH and I were talking about this and I think its HUGE. I'm sure it was quite easy to sit down for lessons when you had to walk to school ( both ways up hill in the snow ;) ) after you spent the morning milking cows and then return from school to spend even more time haying in the field, fetching water, or just roaming for miles in the woods, etc.

 

Even in the mid-20th century when boys had fewer chores they also had less homework but more time to run and play HARD. I don't think the influence of TV and video games can be discounted at all - they entertain without exhausting. Even organized sports often involve a lot of sitting around and are not as demanding as spending hours riding bikes, running in the woods, and doing physical chores.

 

I have high standards for my boy and I absolutely do not plan to give him a pass on things like writing and cursive or seat work, although I'm fine with delaying a while - kids back then often didn't start school until 6 or 7 either and had less homework. But I also plan to give him the physical activity he needs at the start and end of the day. I think people waaaaay under-esimtate the amount of physical activity some boys need - my son was doing serious hikes up and down mountains at 3 and now at 4 yo regularly does 10 mile bike rides with me. There is a world of difference in behavior and concentration and attitude on the days he gets out. Ideally throughout his schooling I would love for him to get an hour or two of intense physical activity for every hour at the table, but that's just not practical in the suburbs so we do the best we can.

Edited April 7, 2011 by RoundAbout

[Critterfixer]

What would be the difference between "discipline" and "training"? I've read both words mentioned. Training sounds more like something you would do with a puppy. At what point does training (mother-motivated and enforced) give was to discipline (self-motivated and consequence enforced)? At what age? My twins are my first and only, so I am interested in the question because I don't plan on having a chance to practice with the first two and rectify mistakes with future children.

I do try to enforce habits of good table manners and manners in public, I also try to have a routine of how we get through school with enough flexibility to allow for more time here or there. I also try to punish bad behavior as promptly as I can. But that's all training in my book--behavior modification. To me the idea of discipline conveys more than that. Ideas? Thoughts?

 

How does one assist the transformation of well-trained, squirmy, furry caterpillars into butterflies, or at least pretty moths?

Edited April 8, 2011 by Critterfixer

[mama2cntrykids]

Going to bed now, but will come back later.

[JudoMom]

 

@ JudoMom (forgot to quote while multiquoting): The answer would depend on the time and the place, it can be anything between 3 (really) and 8 (really). The traditional Jewish model of educating boys starts at 3, kids are literate by 5 and start doing actual work on text, legal studies kicking in at young double-digits, learning basically full time daily from a very young age, dual curriculum (secular and religious) and all that jazz. And it still produces happy, lovable boys - but of whom actual, tangible, real academic work is expected at very young ages. For some, it does not work and it is too overwhelming. But for a surprising number it does work, so I suppose it is possible.

 

Interesting--thanks for the answer :001_smile:.

[Susie in CA]

Maybe it's the lack of tough love and lack of high expectations that's more of the problem.

 

I think above quote is, at least partially, the problem. They do way too much dumbed down stuff (way too long) in schools around us. This makes it boring. The kids are simply not challanged. The curriculum is not diverse enough. Where I went to school the school day was much different. We did not have Kindergarten. School started at 6 with first grade. The first 4 years the school day went from 8:00 am - 12:00 pm. During this time we covered German, Math, Religion, Handiwork, Art, Music, PE, Nature Study and History, and English every week.

My question really is: "What do they do with the kids all day in the US Puplic Schools. Where is the Art, Music etc. in the day?"

 

The answer to that question really is the problem, imho.

 

Susie

[stripe]

My question really is: "What do they do with the kids all day in the US Puplic Schools. Where is the Art, Music etc. in the day?"

 

The answer to that question really is the problem, imho.

 

I have the same question, except mine is more global (in terms of subject areas), given American test scores.

[Ester Maria]

My question really is: "What do they do with the kids all day in the US Puplic Schools.

Babysit, of course.

 

Schools have long ago turned from serious academic institutions to, essentially, daycares. Very few of them (in the realm of public schools in the US) actually work with the primary imperative of educating - education is secondary to the babysitting aspect, socialization, democratization, etc. Not that all of that is bad, but the social function of schools has changed in the past century in many places and we cannot deny it.

 

Well, one more reason to homeschool the early years.

[Snickerdoodle]

And let me tell you, there is such a huge difference between the behavior of ONE boy and 2 or 3 together. It's like they feed off each other's energy!

 

Welcome to my life. Holy cats.

[JennyD]

One of the great surprises to me about raising my boys so far is how very much hard exercise they need to be their best selves. As one of the prior posters said, the difference on days when they are out for a couple of hours running and playing hard and the days when that's not possible is like day and night. And mine are still small, with short little legs! I can only imagine how much it must take to wear out a 9yo, or a 14yo, for that matter.

 

I decided to homeschool after touring our local elementary school, which is actually quite good in many respects. However, my 5yo would have been in school from 8:15 to 3 pm, 5 days a week, with 20 minutes per day for a combined lunch/recess, plus one "movement" class and one "phys ed" class per week. They go outside for the recess IF the temperature is well above freezing and there is no precipitation; otherwise, they watch a movie.

 

Could my son have done it? Sure. He wouldn't be going for the academics, and he's basically a cooperative kid who would want to please his teachers and us. He would be fine, probably. But would it be a good environment for him, where he could really learn, and grow, and thrive? Not even close.

 

Which brings me to my father, who had an education, back in the 40s, not dissimilar to the one Ester Maria describes -- long, long days, with secular studies during the day at public school and then Hebrew/Judaic studies most days after school until about 5pm. He is a bright guy and did well throughout, despite being an insanely active person who even at age 68 needs a lot of exercise to feel calm and be able to concentrate. He went on to do well in college and have a reasonably successful career as well. So in many respects, it 'worked' just fine. However, his dominant memory of childhood is looking out the window desperately waiting for school to be over. He always says that he felt as though school were a 'prison,' and he was just trapped in there waiting for it to end. Which is just depressing, IMO, and not at all what I want for my own children.

Edited April 8, 2011 by JennyD

[Joyofsixreboot]

However, his dominant memory of childhood is looking out the window desperately waiting for school to be over. He always says that he felt as though school were a 'prison,' and he was just trapped in there waiting for it to end. Which is just depressing, IMO.

 

That is my dominant memory of school too. There are so many interesting things in the world and they made them so dull. I always felt like if they had just given me the book and got out of my way I could have been done so much faster. By high school they'd lost me because I found some GED practice book in 7th grade, aced the practice and figured that was my out. Why pay attention in school when I knew I could pass that test and get on with it. Not very mature thinking but that was my 15yo self.

[elegantlion]

This is an interesting thread. My ds is wiggly kid, so was his father. Dh still doesn't sit still. I always saw it as a personality trait, rather than gender. Dh abhorred school. Sitting still was painful for him. He's not ADD, just high moving, high energy. His brothers are quite opposite of him.

 

Things we have done:

 

Exercise ball to sit on - ds has great abs. Must be old enough to understand exercise ball to use, he was about 9 or 10 when he got his.

 

Pipe cleaners to fiddle with

 

When discussing anything history related, if you can tie it back to Star Wars or Star Trek you increase their understanding. I believe most of his historical knowledge is filtered through conversations like, "Remember is Episode two when...Remember when Picard found...."

 

Start narration in complete sentences early. Consider oral recitations as well.

 

Light saber duels in the front yard count as PE

 

Nature Study, seriously get out and study nature. Give your boys a camera and have them take pictures of ten things in nature. You'll see their perspective, it can be quite astonishing to see what they're paying attention to.

 

Reading while lying in some weird position is normal.

 

Shoes and shirts are optional at school (for the boys that is)

 

I know my ds would not have done well in a traditional class at a young age. He was private school for prek and K. He got in trouble for talking a lot in K. :lol:

 

We discuss and practice proper behavior. Just because he needs to wiggle doesn't mean he gets to be barbaric.

 

I'm a better teacher because I understood beforehand how my dh and ds were similar. But I also don't buy into the just because they're boys we need to change everything we do to educate them.

[stripe]

Babysit, of course.

I guess.

 

Have you seen "Boys of Baraka"? It's a documentary. The beginning has the most telling scene of school chaos. (In Baltimore.) The principal screaming, "When I say three, you're going to sit down! One! Two! Three!" and everyone just keeps on talking. It was very telling.

 

It's a great school documentary.

[Snickerdoodle]

I guess.

 

Have you seen "Boys of Baraka"?

 

Thanks. It's in my cue.

[rafiki]

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