Wondering what everyone thinks of this situation with DD's PS playground...

[YarnAddict]

OK, well, we have decided to homeschool regardless of how this all pans out. Our choice is mostly to provide her one on one teaching, then one on two as the little one starts... Her class right now has 29 kids. Also, we miss the spiritual training opportunities, flexibility of homeschooling and all of that. So this is not why I'm bringing her home, but I had a chat with my mom about it, and I completely disagreed with her take on it. You don't need to tell me I'm right, or that she's right... I'd just love to hear honest thoughts and opinions on this issue.

 

DD is 7.5 yo and in 2nd grade at our local PS. She has made friends, some have moved on to other friends but she's always had someone to play with. She finally really linked up with this girl who I'll call A. A's family is very involved in their church and outwardly Christian. Both A's parents work full-time, and she has very nice things and a nice home. We have a nice home, but much smaller, and we live cheaply. Aaaaanyhow. LOL. So, DD and A played together a ton at school and A came over here one day over christmas break. I was pretty excited about my DD having a new friend come over here. This girl came over though, and made several comments about how her house was MUCH bigger than ours, etc etc. My DD told her "you said that twice, lets talk about something else." DD never told me it bothered her, but it sure made me mad. I chalked it up to the girl being a kid, and not getting that we are where God has us, and "things" are not what is truly important (though having nice things is not a bad thing!).

 

They played together okay until a couple weeks ago. DD finally told me the other night that A has linked up with a couple other girls who IMO are bullies. DD will get on the swing, and the bullies come right over (she is normally swinging with A) and the bullies tell her they are going to count to 20 and if she doesn't get off, they will tell. :( DD is VERY concerned about doing the right thing, and not getting into trouble, so she listens to them but she bawled her eyes out to me and said it wasn't fair. I said she was right, it was not fair, but if she was hogging the swing, that she should share. She tells me it happens right after she gets on to swing, so it's not like she's hogging the swing. She said the girls try to get others off their swings, but they don't listen. DD does because she doesn't want to get in trouble, and she said she is scared of them telling on her. :( And because A is now with these 2 bullies and not playing with my DD, my DD is even more hurt because her friend has "betrayed her" (her words).

 

I got her calmed down, encouraged her to always come to me when things happen and to always tell me these things because I care and want to help her get a solution. I offered several solutions, one being to stay on and tell the girl when she was done she would stop (she tried that, the girls kept counting loudly and being rude). I suggested idnoring her, that she could continue swinging and get off when she is done. She tried that, again the girls stands there yelling up to 20, so dd gives in and gets off. I finally emailed the teacher, and she talked to my DD and the other girl separately. I'm hoping in 2nd grade, that "snitching" doesn't get her more trouble. I guess if it gets worse I'll pull her out before the end of the year, but I really think she needs to finish ou the year at this point (less than 2 months to go). I just didn't know what to do because all my solutions were things DD tried and the problem was getting worse and not any better. I was half tempted to go up at recess and give the kid a piece of my mind, lol. Don't worry, I won't. LOL

 

I told my mom all of this, and her response was DD needs to learn that not everyone likes her. I agree with that. I told DD that not everyone will want to be your friend, and that she may not want to be friends with everyone because some people are cranky and just not nice... I said she should be kind to others but she doesn't have to take abuse. My mom went on to say that my DD has not been in the "real world" while she was homeschooled, that she learned everyone likes her and is kind. I know this is true, but at 7 does she really need to learn there are mean and hateful people out there, and also that she will get emotionally, mentally and maybe even physically beat up by these people if they won't listen and stop?? I mean as an adult if someone was threatening me, at some point I could take legal action. Somehow in schools it's seen as "part of life" and something a kid must just live through. I also know sometimes bullied kids snap, and things get really tragic. :( I think it would takea while, but this is really wearing on my DD :(

 

I don't think my DD needs to be taking orders from any child at the school, and she certainly shouldn't just "tough it out" and figure that this is just life. I don't think bullying of ANY kind over anything is acceptable!! I was bullied in 7th grade and I STILL get upset and cry when I reflect on it. I WISH someone had taken me out of the situation, but at 7th grade, I feared snitching would get me beat up. :(

 

I told my mom I was glad we were going to homeschool because of crap like this. She said my DD needs to learn how to handle this because this is life. I feel like she should be supported and loved as she grows and in a loving home she can learn the world is not always a nice place and she can deal with it while having the support of her family all of the time. I know as she gets older we will have to talk through things in the world that are not nice and safe, but I will be there to support her and help her thru.

 

If you got this far I'm not sure I said this how I wanted to. I'm pretty upset over this. I've been thinking about my older DD all day the last 2 days wondering if she is okay. :( And I don't want her to think she can stop going to school if she keeps telling me she's upset, but darn it, I just hate sending her anymore. Hopefully today will be better now that she's talked to the teacher. I just learned about this this week, so it's not like I knew about it for ages and just now contacted the teacher... but I did try to work on it with DD before going to the teacher.

 

I just want my kid to finish the year and not get hurt in any way, is that too much to ask :(

[kchara]

Well, I don't agree that that's "just life." I think you're right, as adults, when we face bullies, we have steps we can take, many legal. A child has no such system in place, therefore it's our job as parents to protect them.

[pbt1294]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

And I know you want her to stay until the end of the year, but honestly, would you want to put up with poop like that for another couple of months??? What would your mom do in that kind of situation in "grown up world" ???? I doubt she would hang around to be harrassed another couple of months.

 

And even kids that are hsed have to put up with this kinda of poo at places like CHURCH sometimes. At least they arn't expected to have to LEARN in this kind of environment!!!

 

CAN YOU TELL I HATE BULLYING!!!

 

If I were a school teacher I would be constantly patrolling the playground for it, and not talking with my teacher buddies!!!! That makes me soooo mad!

[Mommyof4ks]

No advice from me, but I agree that kids should not have to just live with it. As adults if we get fed up with 'mean people', then we can either take legal action or go somewhere else. In school kids cannot escape to a new place when people won't leave them alone. I knew bullies in school, but as an adult I simple choose to go hang out with nice people, so I don't really even know any bullies let alone allow myself to be bullied. When people equate school with the real world it is hard not to roll my eyes.

[elfgivas]

there are bullies in the homeschool community, too. the difference is that you will be there to coach her thru it at the moment. it is the world of difference. mostly i think that folks who say its part of life remember the variety of bullying that happened when they were in school, not the version kids have to deal with now. (one time, i mentioned dd being afraid to use the bathroom at school and the person said that was silly. so i showed her the article about the grade 3 girl pulling a knife on a classmate, and it became very quiet. i didn't need to explain bullying again....)

 

its only april 1st. i'd be inclined to pull your dd now... its just grade 2, and it doesn't sound as if she's having much fun.

 

fwiw,

ann

[jelbe5]

:grouphug:

 

I don't think any young child should have to learn that "this is just life" at that age.

 

I was bullied as a youngster in elementary school. For years. It is one of the reasons I homeschool.

 

Young children simply don't have the coping skills/confidence to handle this type of behavior. That is something that comes with time and maturity. And I agree with your point that, as adults, we have all sorts of options and recourse that does not seem to be available to young people. It makes me sick to hear about young people committing suicide over the cruel, hateful and insensitive behavior of others. I remember feeling hopeless and helpless when I was in that situation.

 

I understand your conversation with your mom has upset you. I have a great relationship with my mom and love her very much . . . but sometimes I choose not to talk to her about certain thing because I have a good idea of what she will say and I know it will not be helpful to me. This may be one of those conversations you will want to avoid with your mom in the future.

 

Also, this is your dd. If you want to pull her out now, why wait? I understand you may feel a need to have her "finish out the year", but why? There is no one you need to answer to regarding your child. It is not too much to want your child to be safe and have pleasant experiences. No, we cannot protect them forever, but they will learn soon enough that life can be hard and unfair . . . but do they have to learn it at such a young age by being bullied by their peers? I think not.

[zaichiki]

It would probably go easier on your dd if she was able to stand up for herself. Bullies usually choose kids who will allow the bullying. You said the other kids just ignore the counting and don't seem to have trouble. I would ask dd what she thinks is the worst thing that could happen if she ignores the counting, too. (What does she think would happen if the bullies "told?")

[Mynyel]

I think you are perfectly right.

 

Sure not all people are nice, but a 7, 8, 9 and so on there are certain social situations that kids shouldn't handle.

 

she is better able to handle situations as she gets older. "Throwing" her in now with the wolves isn't going to help her cope. It will stay with her for the rest of her life.

 

I pulled my dd13 out half way through second grade. Just was 2 weeks past her 8th birthday. She still will talk about school and how the kids were mean.

 

Don't worry about your mom (I know easier said than done). Many people just don't like change! :D

 

You are doing good mama! :hurray:

 

As for pulling her now? What do you think she is going to learn in the next 2 months that you can't teach her in the next two weeks? Seriously, it will take you less than half the time to cover the same material.

 

Does she want to stop now? Go for it. I wouldn't stand for it.

 

If she was mine I would pull her now! :D

[Lolosoli]

What if the situation was from an adult point of view? What if you were at work in an office? What if you wanted/needed to use the copying machine and other co-workers (that didn't like...for whatever reason) would just walk on up and demand that you stop copying your papers/work because they needed/wanted the machine? What if they counted at you, laughed and threatened to tell your boss because they had a club/game/bully session going on that they thought was fun? What if they did it everyday? what if everytime you mentioned you like the teasing they reacted as though you were over-reacting?

 

If you had the option to work from home wouldn't you? Would you force yourself to work the rest of the year with that kind of treatment? You already know that they do not like you...what does putting up with them at the copy machine everyday teach you?

 

Your daughter is handling the situation with common sense, class and maturity. She isn't going to learn anything of value.....she'll learn that class and maturity get you absolutely nothing on the playground! She is going to loose what you've taught her...not gain anything! :)

Edited April 1, 2011 by Lolosoli

[ChrissySC]

... huggssss. It is rough.

 

My girls go to ps first and then come home. They experience it all, but then they are grateful for the experiences too. At what point they do come home is not set in stone. Anyway ....

 

I encourage you to finish the year as well, but go get your soapbox girl!

 

It is time to let the school and the teacher know your name!

[MariannNOVA]

Reading everything you wrote, I have to ask: why does she have to finish the school year?

 

IMO, I have yet to find a school, public or private where that kind of stuff that you described doesn't go on......really. You want to bring your dd home, then do it.

 

'real life' for 7 year olds should be whatever you make it -- honestly. I agree with what everyone here wrote and HSLover said it really well: this kind of stuff isn't going to help her learn to cope, it is going to stay with her and hurt her. You can teach her to cope on your terms in your own time.

 

We have friends whose dd is a sophmore in high school and all of a sudden there are issues that are making her miserable. My friend asked for my advice and I told her: take her out of public high school and go look at other schools - I even emailed her a list of 12 schools to go visit -- and $$$ is not an issue here. As far as I know, their dd remains (miserable) in her high school b/c my friend and her dh are 'stuck' on the idea of making her tough it out and learn how to deal with this. I told them in no uncertain terms (as did their dd's psychologist - their dd is depressed) that that was a bad idea.

 

Trust your instincts -- bring her home and don't wait. BTW, I'm probably older than your mom (I have grown children and grandchildren as well as my own three I am homeschooling) -- and I am speaking from experience -- take her home.:grouphug:

[Jean in Newcastle]

A couple of thoughts:

 

1. Bullying was not the primary reason you are planning to homeschool her. I'd suggest making that clear to your mom. Hopefully she will really listen. But if not, many of us have realized that we need to draw strong boundaries about Grandparents being able to express their concern but still realizing that you as the parents have the final say on how the children are educated.

 

2. I'd tell your dd that if this happens again with these bullies that she say loudly "Yes, let's tell!" And she should go tell the playground teacher right then what the girls are doing.

[YarnAddict]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. A couple comments...

 

1. She WANTS to finish the year. BUT, I will watch her closely to be sure she's not becoming too traumatized over this and I AM willing to pull her before then if it keeps up. A bit nervous to jump in at the tail end of the year, but, it would be doable...

 

2. She has a field trip next week that she wants to go to badly, and her teacher is pregnant and we're planning a baby shower at the end of the day on 5/6. She would be really sad to not be there for that. Also, I know I could deal with teaching her whatever math she would miss fairly easily (she is doing Saxon and I can probably find what is left for the year), but DH and I did decide we needed to commit to a full year and we want to stick with that unless this keeps coming up.

 

3. The teacher talked to the girl, and today nothing bad happened. DD is still feeling like she can't play with her friend A because of this girl, but I told her that she should just go over to A and see if A wants to play or something. I said she didn't need to worry about the bully girl because A is her friend too. I will have to see how this plays out. I told her there is NO reason she should be afraid to play with HER friend and she needs to tell me/her teacher/the playground aide if the bully threatens her again. She said A tells her she wants to play with the bully girl, and I told DD she might just need to tell A that the bully girl is not being kind to her... DD wasn't sure about that...

 

4. We've had a lot of upheaval on my side of the family, which is what led to us doing PS in the first place. I hesitate to cause my kids ANY unexpected losses because their uncle was arrested last year (then detained until sentencing this year), and my oldest struggled with that. I feel selfish to admit, but I was so depressed and in such a bad place that I felt like I needed some time away from homeschooling. Once things resolved somewhat on my side of the family, immediately I was ready to homeschool again! :) I realized that I was depressed even after things had gotten a bit better, because the sentencing being done helped me come to a point of closure and more fully shake the depression. We've had a lot of changes in the last year--going to a new church, dynamics on my side of the family are weird, uncle gone, now kids in ps. I hesitate greatly to change anything at this point, but I AM willing to bring her home if this situation doesn't stay resolved.

 

I do appreciate everyone's thoughts and comments. The analogy of the copier kinda brought home to me that as an adult, I could and would remove myself from this situation... and that my DD needs to have that option if this doesn't resolve now with talking to her teacher and me suggesting she talk with A...

 

I DO worry that she's going to be messed up just for going to PS for the one year and leaving... it was somewhat good because she learned to appreciate being home a lot more... but this crap just negates most of the good that seems to have come from it, at least in my mind. She has like 36 days left, and she'll likely not go the last day anyhow due to it being Memorial Day Weekend and we're going out of town.

 

I will keep a close eye on her and spend plenty of time with her one on one... don't worry, i'll definitely keep up with this situation and watch her for behavior changes and such.

 

I am glad to know that folks don't think she just needs to toughen up or know that this is just how the world is. :( that makes me sad to think people really think this is okay!! Well, my mom doesn't think it is ok, but she thinks it is a part of life. :(

[HeidiKC]

I think you're completely right. But unless the situation continues to be really bad and you feel like it is really impacting your daughter negatively, I would leave her in school. You need to make friends with the teacher, and in a week I'd nicely check in and ask the teacher what she is seeing regarding the situation. Question in a friendly way and wait quietly for answer. Main reason I'd do this is so that the teacher knows you are staying on top of this and it is important to you and you'll be checking in.

 

I don't agree that young kids need to learn that life is tough and to just deal with it. But I do think it would be a good lesson to your daughter that you tried your best to find a solution to the problem and made it work! Plus you said she wants to be there.

 

I'd also extend lots of playdates to A, even though she might not be wonderful. It'll make life easier for your daughter, and in the end probably doesn't matter much (meaning they won't remain friends if you don't want them to) since you're daughter is leaving in a couple of months.

 

One other thought (if trouble continues): do you know A's mom? If so, I'd try as nicely as possible to talk to her (without putting blame on A), but telling her how much it would help the situation if A stood up for your daughter.

 

Mainly I wouldn't give up because it is the school's responsibility to take care of problems like this. Don't they have an anti-bullying program? I thought all schools did these days. If these girls are doing this in 2nd grade and no one stops them, I hate to think what 6th grade will be like!

 

Good luck and you sound like an awesome mom! And know that although this is hard for your daughter, the swing issue can't be nearly as upsetting in 2nd grade as what you experienced in 7th grade. This swing thing is more of a bid, bad bossy thing.

[Legomom]

I loved this quote from an article that I just read about girls and bullying (written by a school counselor). "Many see this (bullying) as a natural part of girlhood and growing up. Parents, teachers and friends say, 'toughen up, it's just the way girls are, just ignore them.' This seldom works and is not true. Kind, healthy, confident girls do not behave this way."

 

The full article is at http://www.foodforthoughtcda.com. I don't know much about the author but I liked what he had to say in the article and he also had a couple of books that he recommends reading on this topic.

[mom2denj]

Well, I don't agree that that's "just life." I think you're right, as adults, when we face bullies, we have steps we can take, many legal. A child has no such system in place, therefore it's our job as parents to protect them.

:iagree:

Well said!

[YarnAddict]

So, tonight my DD picked up the Read With Me story Bible. She has read from Genesis to a story on Moses and she is still reading, LOL! I need to get her in bed... :P

 

She got to the 10 commandments... read the one about not misusing God's name. She looks at me sadly and says, "Mommy. Some kids at school misuse God's name and I don't like that." :( Aww man, my heart is broken FOR her!! I hate the way folks use God's name as a curse whether it's "Oh my..." or, adding the D word onto His name. :( And she doesn't like it either.

 

DH is going on a field trip Tues with her and her class (she wanted daddy -- said mommy went to her parties so it was daddy's turn, lol). I'm going to have him tune in really well and see what it's really like with the kids. I am thankful my DD's heart is still soft, and praying no matter what we do this year that her heart stays tender. We will have her home next year.

[happypamama]

If the situation gets any worse, I'd pull her out in a hurry. I think at seven, it's okay to understand that not everyone is going to "click" and be best friends, but I don't think she needs to learn to "stand up for herself" or "toughen up" or put up with just plain meanness at this age (or any age, really). I went through similar sorts of things in late elementary school, and in retrospect, though my parents did talk to teachers and other parents, I kind of wish they'd just pulled me out. I don't blame them, though; I wasn't exactly asking to be pulled out, and not many people were HS'ing then, and my education was actually pretty decent. But it left me with a lot of emotional wounds and self-confidence issues that have been hard to overcome (if I ever will overcome all of them).

 

If things get better, I can see why you want to keep her there for the rest of the year, but do keep a close eye on things, and don't feel like you need to answer to anyone if pulling her out is the best option.

 

And give your sweet girl a hug -- she sounds like a lovely little girl! I'm sorry people are taking advantage of that.

[kalanamak]

Tell your mom I never learned how to handle it, or to make it stop hurting, but luckily, my peers are now fully grown up and the jerks weed themselves out of decent neighborhoods and workplaces. :)

[YarnAddict]

Oh, thanks so much for complimenting her. I think she is pretty special, but I'm obviously biased. She is a kid who just draws people to her. We changed churches in May of last year and we knew it was a good move because she instantly had friends... kids and adults. It takes us a good 20 minutes to get out of the church because both of my DD's have so many people they need to talk to and hug on the way out. My DH is out of town overnight, so my older DD is staying up with me... and she's just really chatting me up in between reading this story Bible. She is the neatest kid!

[Starr]

I come with old age and looking back over the years my advice would be to bring her home. It's not quitting to put yourself in a healthier environment.

[Create Your Ritual]

My dd9 (8 at the time) and in 3rd grade had some of the same issues with bullying on the playground. She had boys knock her down and kick her in the back, one even stabbed her in the arm with a sharpened pencil. nice, eh? The girls weren't violent, just VERY rude and loads of drama. It honestly got to the point last year at about this time that dh and I looked at each other and said, "I believe that place is changing who she can become." I really felt at the time that had I left her there, it would change the direction that her life would take. They were taking an alert, loving, ambitious and energetic girl and turning her into a big ball of anxiety. This year has been VERY healing for us. We got involved in a different church and also formed a local homeschool co-op. They have church, sports and the events & spanish class each week to look forward to, and I think it has been a healing time for dd especially. She is getting an amazing education to boot!

[KellyKelley]

I have not read all the replies but I am going to home school over some similar situations at our school. The situation will be resolved at the end of the year because the problem student is leaving but there are issues with the school that will not change and I will not leave my children in it. First the system favors the bully. If the bullied kid snitches she gets in trouble for tattle tailing but if she fights back she is in as much or more trouble as the bully. Our problems are complicated by a lazy teacher that won't get off her rear end to do anything. Second they are my kids and no school will tell me what I can and can not do with my children. Third we are at a private church school and while several families are there because of the church part there are several well off families that have stuck up manners that my kids are learning. Those families are there only because they don't want their kids associating with the riff raff at the public school. I am trying to teach my kids that no person is better than another and the message from her school friends is just the opposite so I am bringing them home.

[tex-mex]

It would probably go easier on your dd if she was able to stand up for herself. Bullies usually choose kids who will allow the bullying. You said the other kids just ignore the counting and don't seem to have trouble. I would ask dd what she thinks is the worst thing that could happen if she ignores the counting, too. (What does she think would happen if the bullies "told?")

Yes, in agreement.

 

Speaking as a former Elementary Schoolteacher, lunch/recess aide, and parent... this happens quite often. My take on this is the mean girls are targeting the OP's dd as she is "easy" to intimidate. Personally, there is a huge difference with behavior in the classroom and what goes on out at recess. Besides the teacher, why not speak with the yard duty person and see if there is something she can do? I used to keep an eye out for certain kiddos too. I reported the same thing to the principal and the bully ended up getting suspended. As a former teacher, it would be good for life lessons to finish up the school year regardless and look back on that experience with homeschooling as BTDT, kwim?

 

BTW, the friend of dd sounds superficial... but she may be a product of her environment? Apple doesn't fall far from the tree. However, the OP's dd sounds delightful and I hope she will find a long lasting friendship down the road. She can do it!

Edited April 2, 2011 by tex-mex

[YarnAddict]

I actually taught for 4 years before my older DD came along. I taught 7th grade reading/LA in an inner-city school. I had great kids, and rough kids... But that experience was part of why I wanted to homeschool even though we live in a different area than where my school was, I saw the way the kids interacted, the "herd" mentality--good kids who would go "bad" because of the crowd, I heard the things they said to one another and said, nope, school's not for my kids. Life happened, and we put her in... it has not been all bad... but, I can see where eventually it will change who my DD is and who she can become. I had myself convinced that at 2nd grade there wouldn't be issues with bullying and other stuff, but... I was wrong.

 

I have had rheumatoid arthritis since age 5, so I dealt with all the crap that goes with having a problem in school... add to that a lazy eye, then glaucoma from eye inflammation due to RA. I got comments about how I was a cripple, comments asking where was I looking because of my eye... yeah... beat down. I liked school overall, I did meet some nice friends... but I dealt with a lot of crap, too.

 

It took me until college when I met some nice folks, to find the most true sense of acceptance I had ever found before. I joined InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, met friends that I STILL talk to today, met my future husband, etc. I learned what it means to be seen for me and not for my problems. Slowly, the words and things I dealt with in school were fading away. I always felt like I wasn't ":good enough" or that everyone was better than me. :( I'm not sure if I would have felt differently if I had not endured the abuse in school. I'll never know. But I think, if I had been homeschooled, I would have enjoyed it. Especially not having to deal with the mean people. At my senior year band banquet, even my band teacher got in on the comments. They "roast" the seniors and his roast for me was "_____ is the only one who limps when she marches." Yeah, real funny. I wish my mom had talked to him. Every once in a while when we talk about band and high school she tells me she wishes she had confronted him.

 

Anyway, just thinking about how college was a time in a supportive, loving environment school-wise... makes me thankful I have the option to bring DD home. I will definitely keep an eye on her, and she WILL come home before the end of the year if she starts behaving weird, or changing or anything else. We stayed up last night until 11:30 (dh is out of town) and she just chattered away about life, about how she thinks homeschooling is better for her... "public school doesn't seem to be for me. a lot of the kids are mean and cranky. i don't like cranky people." We told her she WOULD come home for 3rd grade, and she needs to keep talking to me about what happens at school... so trust me, we'll watch her closely.