Do You Use a Math Curriculum?

[JennyD]

Mom2Bee: So are you the person who has agreed to sit with these kids everyday while they do their Public Charter School on the computer? They are not siblings, obviously. Are you paid for doing this or exchanging services in some way?

 

Are the parents fully aware of how their children are struggling with the curriculum through the charter school? Are you in regular contact with the advisor / assigned teacher / etc?

 

The reason I'm asking is to get a better picture of your situation -- you are seemingly limited on many fronts. If the charter school is a good one, there should be some assistance through it (I don't know, but I would think so from advertisements I've seen). If the parents want you to do this, then maybe they also should provide some funds to buy what you need to help teach their children.

 

I don't think that you are in a situation where you are 100% responsible for these children's educations but you seem to think so. The parents should be helping or providing resources or the charter school should be (or both). But you shouldn't be beating your head against the wall when you are clearly limited with the choices these parents may be making.

 

I don't know, I'm shooting in the dark. I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from. It would help if you fully disclosed what your situation is. It would help all of us to give potentially better advice.

 

:bigear:

 

Same questions here.

[Wheres Toto]

Mom2Bee: So are you the person who has agreed to sit with these kids everyday while they do their Public Charter School on the computer? They are not siblings, obviously. Are you paid for doing this or exchanging services in some way?

 

Are the parents fully aware of how their children are struggling with the curriculum through the charter school? Are you in regular contact with the advisor / assigned teacher / etc?

 

The reason I'm asking is to get a better picture of your situation -- you are seemingly limited on many fronts. If the charter school is a good one, there should be some assistance through it (I don't know, but I would think so from advertisements I've seen). If the parents want you to do this, then maybe they also should provide some funds to buy what you need to help teach their children.

 

I don't think that you are in a situation where you are 100% responsible for these children's educations but you seem to think so. The parents should be helping or providing resources or the charter school should be (or both). But you shouldn't be beating your head against the wall when you are clearly limited with the choices these parents may be making.

 

I don't know, I'm shooting in the dark. I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from. It would help if you fully disclosed what your situation is. It would help all of us to give potentially better advice.

 

:iagree:

Your situation seems a little unusual. What are the kids currently learning through the Charter school? If they are having trouble, there should be assistance available. Your siggy says you want to stop doing the virtual school. Are you trying to make plans now for when that day comes? What do the parents want you to do? Are they not providing any money for school supplies? If you are a paid employee, you really have no option but to teach the kids in the way the parents want.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

You might want to look at the resources section for Saxon math. You can set up online math fact drills. There are also other online activities and resources. Other math programs may have similar functions on their websites. I happened to notice these recently when I was looking for something else.

 

You might try searching "family math". This is the name of a very good series of books on real world applications of math concepts (your college library might have it). You can find many online activities that tie math to family friendly activities.

 

IMHO, after you've taught a kid how to fill in the bubbles on a test and how to eliminate wrong answers and only think about the correct options on a multiple choice test, you will get more mileage out of teaching actual concepts than on test prep. YMMV.

 

Also, sometimes a change is as good as a rest. Moving between phonics and math may give the kids time to let the new concepts settle in their heads.

 

I might also suggest the book The Read Aloud Handbook by Jim Trelease if you haven't read that before. You may find that scaffolding a developing reader with read alouds just above their ability will help them a lot.

[ondreeuh]

Look at Mathplayground.com. There are lots of algebra concepts that can be practiced on the site using click & drag manipulatives, and there's no printing involved.

 

Algebra can be practiced with the model algebra scale (similar to Hands-On Equations)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Mom2Bee: So are you the person who has agreed to sit with these kids everyday while they do their Public Charter School on the computer? They are not siblings, obviously. Are you paid for doing this or exchanging services in some way?

 

Are the parents fully aware of how their children are struggling with the curriculum through the charter school? Are you in regular contact with the advisor / assigned teacher / etc?

 

The reason I'm asking is to get a better picture of your situation -- you are seemingly limited on many fronts. If the charter school is a good one, there should be some assistance through it (I don't know, but I would think so from advertisements I've seen). If the parents want you to do this, then maybe they also should provide some funds to buy what you need to help teach their children.

 

I don't think that you are in a situation where you are 100% responsible for these children's educations but you seem to think so. The parents should be helping or providing resources or the charter school should be (or both). But you shouldn't be beating your head against the wall when you are clearly limited with the choices these parents may be making.

 

I don't know, I'm shooting in the dark. I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from. It would help if you fully disclosed what your situation is. It would help all of us to give potentially better advice.

 

:iagree:

 

OP: This would help point you to the best resources.

 

And just as an aside, when you add to a post, if you will just add onto the original, (maybe with a tag of Update:) then it will help maintain the flow of the thread. If you completely change the original post, then the first responses get orphaned and it's hard to see why people were asking certain questions or making suggestions.

 

Or you can just add an amplifying reply with the update info.

 

Update: It might also be useful if you could name the materials that the virtual public school is providing. Odds are someone is familiar with it and can point you to either resources for filling gaps or supplementing it.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Sebastian (a lady)

[TheAutumnOak]

I'm not saying that I'm going to throw all math curriculum to the wind. Hardly that, I dont even want to do that. But I want to make sure we're getting a solid grounding and understanding of arithmetic and fractions. I've looked at several curriculum (Saxon, MM, Singapore, LOF, MOTL, RightStart, CLE, etc..) but we simply can't afford any right now. It isn't an option. like, at all.

 

I'm going to try and adapt what we have to work for the students.

 

 

 

I know you have said that you can't afford a math curriculum, but I wonder if you can even buy the MM Blue Series in parts or the Light Blue Series...It is about $32 for a year's worth of math, and you can buy it $16.50 twice...

 

I am not sure who the students are, but can their parents pay for it?...Can something be sold to buy it?...It is just hard to not use a math curriculum because you can't afford one...If you believed that it was best not to use one, that would be one thing...But there has to be a way to get one if you think it is beneficial...Even a second hand one...

 

I am sorry if I am assuming too much...I just believe there is a way to do almost anything...Not everything, but anything within reason and for good purpose...

[Farrar]

I just wanted to point out that MEP is more than just the workbook pages. The teacher's guide pages have activities and detail an approach that you could use without any printing.

 

Also, many of the best math teaching books are in the children's section of the library - things like the I Hate Math Book, Math Games and Activities From Around the World, The Math Chef, and many others are all math activity books I've found at the library and that we've drawn games and ideas from. There's also living books about math that I've found useful - also free from the library - things like the Stuart J. Murphy Mathstart books, the Greg Tang books, Loreen Leedy's math books, and many more.

 

But agreed with others that the OP's situation seems very confusing. She wants a curriculum but she has to follow the charter school one at least sort of and she can't buy or print anything else:confused:... I can think of many ways to teach math without a curriculum - we didn't use one for K and I was very happy with that decision. But that's not really the question being posed...

[nmoira]

 

I just wanted to point out that MEP is more than just the workbook pages. The teacher's guide pages have activities and detail an approach that you could use without any printing.

This is so. The lesson plans are comprehensive and occasionally include optional extensions for capable students. Everything needed for beginning algebra is covered by the end of Y6, so capable students can skip pre-algebra. Pre-algebraic type equality and inequality problems are included from Y1.

[DarlaS]

Well, sometimes, it takes the life time experience of 'having sucked at and suffered through' and actually triumphed over something to understand how to teach it to those who are still sucking and suffering at where ever it is you just came from.

 

I think that I could actually design a very good math curriculum and it is in the works ;).

 

I was bad at Math. Was is past tense, ladies. I can now do pretty much any K-8 mathematics without a problem. I assure you I could teach a 5, 7 and 9yo all they needed to know without a printed curriculum if I had too...

 

Have you looked at these Ruth Beechick books? I think this one might interest you:

 

You Can Teach Your Child Successfully: Grades 4-8

 

It lists topics and guidelines at each grade level. You can get it from just about any library.

[Renee in NC]

I updated the original thread. Hopefully it is a little clearer about what I'm asking. Maybe not, one thing I've learned on this forum is I'm pretty lousy at effective written communication in real time. (*Adding that to my self-education plan.*)

 

I'm not saying that I'm going to throw all math curriculum to the wind. Hardly that, I dont even want to do that. But I want to make sure we're getting a solid grounding and understanding of arithmetic and fractions. I've looked at several curriculum (Saxon, MM, Singapore, LOF, MOTL, RightStart, CLE, etc..) but we simply can't afford any right now. It isn't an option. like, at all.

 

I'm going to try and adapt what we have to work for the students.

 

Mostly I've worked with this group of students on reading. (Last summer LilGal and I did Math and it was good, but we didn't do 'fact drills' because her mom said not to.) But I'm looking to add in more math instruction in the coming months. (not right away, we've gotta get a tight grip on reading + phonics and build reading fluency and 3rd grader is prepping for standardized tests with her mom using the school curriculum and methods. I'd forgotten that when I made my OP)

 

But the one thing I've changed/added for 3rd graders math is that she's going to learn + drill her number bonds and times tables, everyday, come hell or high water, starting yesterday.

 

I do want to start teaching math in a more concrete way for my first graders and need ideas on how to present it using manipulatives. Right now were using beans to explore number bonds and doing counting exercises daily. My goal for them is to understand place value and be able to do addition and subtraction on 4 digit numbers by the end of the summer and to understand fractions.

 

We can't afford a math curriculum, but I've got tons of time on my hands (can you tell?) and am willing to painstakingly adapt their curriculum and workbooks to a more manipulative based approach or to build a simple arithmetic curriculum from a scope and sequence list from someone else.

 

I feel up to the task of teaching elementary math, with or without a curriculum, using just some materials and lots of home made manipulatives and throwing in some other math books for fun. But I'd rather not go that route at this point.

 

I have a growing list of books on Math Education that I wan't to read and study for myself, but my public library doesn't carry any of them. I'm reading some books from the college library and trying to find others through inter-library loan.

 

What does IIRC mean?

 

Thank you everyone for so much feedback and information.

 

Download the Core Knowledge Sequence here - this is what "curriculum" really means. Go through each section, grade by grade and determine what they don't know. Then, get books from the library of math games, look online, etc. Write problems for them to do. Make sure you figure out a systematic way to review (rotate through them like you would memory work in this system.)

 

Move forward as they master the material. By going grade-by-grade, you will automatically get some spiral review as most topics are repeated throughout a few grades (just getting harder, going deeper.)

 

I think your question was - do I need a textbook or program to teach math? I would say the answer is no, *if* you know the math yourself.

[MissKNG]

The math program we use is Singapore Primary Math (textbook and workbook) with the Challenging Word Problem and Intensive Practice books. I also use the Home Instructor's Guide.

 

We use the textbook/workbook/CWP books together then when we complete a "half level", we use the IP book (and continue with the CWP book). We are going to finish 1b shortly but instead of moving onto 2a, dd will work through the 1b IP book first.

[*Jessica*]

For the 3rd grader, take a look at MEP again. They have an online version I believe for level 3 and up? So you wouldn't have to print it. You could just do it on the computer. That is assuming that you have internet access for the 3rd grader to use. You could also write answers on scratch paper if using the non-online versions, looking at the work on the computer. It'd be tricky, but could probably be done. The lesson plans are well done and use manipulatives. There are usually only a handful of problems per lesson, and you might be able to do some of it orally even (just point at the screen and have the child say what they would write there). Be creative with it. ;)

:iagree: If I had absolutely no money, even for the cost of ink for printing the free stuff available, I would absolutely use MEP in this way! Treat the computer screen like a textbook. Copy, or have the students copy, the problems onto notebook paper and have the students solve them. It isn't ideal, but it's certainly workable and cheap.

[nmoira]

 

:iagree: If I had absolutely no money, even for the cost of ink for printing the free stuff available, I would absolutely use MEP in this way! Treat the computer screen like a textbook. Copy, or have the students copy, the problems onto notebook paper and have the students solve them. It isn't ideal, but it's certainly workable and cheap.

I do have the money and also experience with both Right Start and Singapore (as well as the materials) but I still use MEP with DD the Younger because I love the program.

[Tracy]

Honestly, you don't need to know your math facts before you do algebra. In fact, doing algebra can help to cement those math facts. And if you start algebra, and your dc is not ready, it will become quickly obvious, and you can back off.

 

This is not exactly the same thing, but my 5yo last year said she hated math but kept begging me to teach her multiplication. We shelved the math curriculum for a couple months, and we started working on multiplication. She was able to understand the most basic concept of multiplication, but it was obvious that she was not ready for 3rd grade math. Nevertheless, she began to enjoy math, and I took that time to find another math curriculum that would work better for her. The one that we use now introduces higher math concepts at an earlier age without requiring mastery, and dd is much happier with math now.

[Crimson Wife]

Honestly, you don't need to know your math facts before you do algebra. In fact, doing algebra can help to cement those math facts.

 

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with this assertion. The biggest stumbling block that students typically have with algebra is that they have not mastered arithmetic before enrolling in the class. My FIL is a retired high school math teacher and he goes off on this ALL THE TIME.

[Tracy]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with this assertion. The biggest stumbling block that students typically have with algebra is that they have not mastered arithmetic before enrolling in the class. My FIL is a retired high school math teacher and he goes off on this ALL THE TIME.

 

I agree that you need to know your math facts before you take a high school algebra class. But if you have a 3rd grader that wants to dabble in algebra, it can certainly help him learn his math facts, or at least help him see the value in learning them better.

[mom2bee]

I'm going to go back and look at MEP again, I think even if I can't use it NOW it will be worth a more thorough look-see and a probably even a place of honor on the "Things to Keep In Mind For Next Year" list...

 

I'm not trying to get a whole new math curriculum at this point. A new curriculum wont exactly help with the particular mathematical problems were having.

 

The problems: LilGuy want's to be involved but doesn't 'get' math on paper at all. ReaderBoy needs to be doing regular math work but regrouping across place value has him stomped. LilGal want's more interesting, newer math concepts, she is interested in Algebra but first she needs to solidify her basic math facts. (at least thats my story and I'm sticking to it!)

 

LilGal gets math. I don't know why she just 'gets' things but she does. She can understand what a pictorial example is trying to communicate, even without reading the directions half the time. (Though I'm trying to make her stop going with just her 'hunches' and read the directions also, because some times the 'hunch' is wrong. :glare: ).

I feel she's at the point where she needs to primarily drill, drill, drill. Preferably timed drills. She's gotta be quicker and accurate. Boosting her math facts will help Fractions go faster, IMO anyways. She understands the concept behind arithmetic. She needs to work on her division more, but she's expressed frustration with her math all year long and I'd like to go ahead and do something about it. Once she gets her basics to the point of firing off the answers both rapidly and accurately, we're going to move to Mental arithmetic and begin some algebraic concepts.

 

For my 1st graders, I feel that I have a good idea of what they need to learn, but I just was a bit worried about how it might affect them in the long run if I 'cater' to their weaknesses by using an extreme measures. I don't want to let them NOT do math, because they dislike it, but I wan't to find a way to make math more palatable and accessible to them.

 

I really just wanted ideas on how to present some concepts with manipulative etc to help them 'get' math and not just learn patterns for manipulating numbers randomly. I would love it if a lightbulb could go off for ReaderBoy so that he can understand his addition and subtraction.

 

Lately, ReaderBoy is really frustrated when we work together on math (which we hardly ever do) because he doesn't know what to do, how to do it, or why he should (besides 'mom said so' of course...) As I understand it, He's been on a break from math for a while because the battle isn't one anyone had the energy or time for at the moment. The other day I asked him to count to 100 for me and he put up such a fight it was absurd. He kept whining about how he hated math now, and we finally settled at starting at 85 and counting to 100. (He actually refused, got mad and ran home, but he came to me later and counted 85-100 and demanded 'are you satisfied now?! Sheesh!'--so I'm assuming his mom made him do it. :tongue_smilie:)

 

I remember my math books used to have punch-out place value manipulates in the back. Squares, strips and sheets to show ones, tens, and hundreds. I'm making some of those out of cardboard for them they helped quite a bit.

 

ReaderBoy can study the picture and read the directions and all he can come up with is a more enlightened sounding "huh? :001_huh: What the heck is this stupid book talking about" (We're working on reading comprehension outside of story books.)

 

LilGuy doesn't get math on paper at ALL. I have lost track of the times we've talked about what that nice + symbol means when its between '1' and '1'. With physical stuff (blocks. candies, etc), he gets it. With anything less than physical stuff (pictures, numerals), I get lead on such random tangents its hard to remember them all and we both walk away feeling confused.

 

I'm not trying to screw up any bodies education or screw up any bodies kids. I know some of you may feel like that, but I am not. Its hardly my intention, I love my students more than some of my own kin and want to see them do well, which is one of the reasons I originally asked about how going 'mathbook-less' for a while affected students in the long run. I'm NOT trying to cause anyone to be remedial math students down the line. I'm not trying to lay unrealistic expectations on my students, or whatever. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel, but I would like to try a different size wheel and just see how it runs. I just thought it might make for a smoother ride for everyone involved.