NoPlaceLikeHome Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Not really. They are pretty routinely done on patients who will be intubated for any amount of time. Yes, this same procedure was done for this family’s older daughter, and she lived for another 6 mos. at home. Did you watch the video that was connected to the earlier Fox news story? They interviewed two doctors in the U.S. with opposing view points on government controlled healthcare. Both physicians said they thought a trach was appropriate and didn't understand the hesitance to perform the procedure. The one who was pro government control thought this was a quirk of the Canadian system, rather than a sign of things to come. She said that wouldn't happen in the U.S., parents would never be ordered to CONSENT to something they disagreed with. The fact that the Michigan hospital has declined getting involved doesn't mean that they wouldn't have performed the procedure if the child had already been in their care. They just aren't willing to get intervene. There are many people like my parents who do quite well with so called government controlled healthcare like medicare:) I would love to see medicare for all and see no problem that the government is involved since really the physicians are still in charge of care. I would much rather medicare than private insurance controlled healthcare with their frivolous denials of service and exclusions of covered services strictly based on their bottom line and not on my health. As for the tracheostomy, it is an invasive procedure that does cause discomfort and if someone is actively dying, then IMHO an invasive procedure would just cause needless suffering and prolong the inevitable:( My 2 cents:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Your parental rights over your child's healthcare allow you to refuse a recommended treatment. They could certainly sign the child out and bring the child home to die there. What they don't have the right to do is demand that a doctor perform a treatment that the doctor feels is not in the best interests of the child. Where would that stop? Do I have a right to demand that my pediatrician prescribe human growth hormone for my healthy but short son? Do I have a right to demand that chemotherapy for my child's terminal cancer continue even though tests have shown that it's not helping and is not appropriate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoMom Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 So, if a USian parent says their child with completely curable pneumonia will be taken home and treated without antibiotics, say coining, the USian parent will be allowed to take the three year old home? Yes, they would. Health care decisions for a child are the parent's decision. It is not very often that the courts would over rule that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoMom Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Update this morning says that Joseph will be allowed to go home with his family to die in peace. It is sad that it took such a big hassle for a parent to be allowed such a simple request - but there you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I just read that the hospital offered to PAY for transporting the baby home, accompanied by nursing staff... and the dad has refused. ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I just read that the hospital offered to PAY for transporting the baby home, accompanied by nursing staff... and the dad has refused. ??? He might be upset by their previous interference. He also may wish for privacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNC Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) These parents don't just want their baby to die at home. They want a trach placed so the ventilator becomes a more permanent treatment. They want this because their other daughter had a trach (though I haven't read if she had the vent with the trach and that makes it a very different scenario if not). She still died 6 months later. I'm guessing that they believe they will have done everything possible at that point. The doctors believe (I think rightly) that the baby could hang on for years and years with a permanent life support. They believe that is futile care. The parents do not. That is the issue. Edited March 1, 2011 by LNC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetBean Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Well, there is news this morning. This little boy has been taken to the U.S. by Priests for Life! http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/13/baby-joseph-gets-second-chance-life/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fus+%28Internal+-+US+Latest+-+Text%29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missesd Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Well, there is news this morning. This little boy has been taken to the U.S. by Priests for Life! http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/13/baby-joseph-gets-second-chance-life/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fus+%28Internal+-+US+Latest+-+Text%29 :hurray: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenKitty Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Well, there is news this morning. This little boy has been taken to the U.S. by Priests for Life! http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/13/baby-joseph-gets-second-chance-life/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fus+%28Internal+-+US+Latest+-+Text%29 That's wonderful news.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I am not so sure it is wonderful news if in fact the child is dying:(. As a nurse I have seen to many invasive procedures done in futile situations which only served to prolong pain and suffering IMO and appease the families who cannot accept death as sometimes inevitable:(. Of course, invasive procedures can be a good thing in many situations but not any expense such as needless suffering when death is inevitable IMHO. I think our society and in many cases medicine has not come to grips that death is inevitable. We have gotten away from dying at home in peace and in many cases end up in critical care units tied down and hooked up to machines and tubes:( I hope to be fortunate enough to die at home someday as my grandparents did surrounded by family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frontier Mom Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Such a devastating decision either way. So sad for the parents, I just can't imagine losing two children this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 He's in the U.S. now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 He's in the U.S. now. So he's not got a trach? I really didn't think that is what the family wanted to do...bring him home to die. I know the family felt at one point that US Drs had cured him. His condition isn't improving from the looks of it. That poor family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetBean Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I am pretty sure that the family just wanted to have him out of that hospital, where the only option they were given was an immediate end to his life. I would want my child to be in a place where his life was valued, and my families wishes were respected. I am an RN, although I haven't worked in 16 years. When I worked in critical care, I remember that traches were routinely done on patients who would be intubated for 2 or more weeks. It was a simple surgical procedure. I see no reason why the hospital in Canada refused to do the procedure, except that they didn't want him to live any longer, and potentially have more medical expenses. Now that this child has been moved, I am sure that the family will have more confidence in the recommendations of the physicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punks in Ontario Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Here's today's article on Joseph. http://http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2011/03/14/17607556.html He's been moved to St. Louis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 You think the Canadians doctors were trying to kill him? Didn't cherish him the way American doctors would? Why? I am pretty sure that the family just wanted to have him out of that hospital, where the only option they were given was an immediate end to his life. I would want my child to be in a place where his life was valued, and my families wishes were respected. I am an RN, although I haven't worked in 16 years. When I worked in critical care, I remember that traches were routinely done on patients who would be intubated for 2 or more weeks. It was a simple surgical procedure. I see no reason why the hospital in Canada refused to do the procedure, except that they didn't want him to live any longer, and potentially have more medical expenses. Now that this child has been moved, I am sure that the family will have more confidence in the recommendations of the physicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetBean Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 You think the Canadians doctors were trying to kill him? Didn't cherish him the way American doctors would? Why? Well, yes. After all, they wanted to just take him off the vent and have him die at the hospital. I don't think that fact is in dispute. I'm not sure whether you are asking me if in general American doctors are more compassionate than Canadian. Honestly, I'm not extrapolating this out any farther than the particular individuals who are involved. There is a big difference from one physician to another. I saw that first hand in my hospital nursing days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetBean Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 'Baby Joseph' likely to have surgery within days, hospital says. http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/03/15/baby.life.support/index.html?hpt=Sbin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 'Baby Joseph' likely to have surgery within days, hospital says.http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/03/15/baby.life.support/index.html?hpt=Sbin For the breathing tube, not for a surgery to cure him, as there is sadly no cure. :( That poor family. I wonder how long his sister lived after her trache surgery? Did CN doctors do that surgery, do you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Why is there no value in a peaceful death or dying at home? Because we value medical opinion over what is right and good. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetBean Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 The sister lived for 6 more months at home after the surgery. After looking at the pictures of baby Joseph, I think it is ridiculous that they didn't put the trach in prior to this. His cheeks are swollen and sore from the tape used to hold the tube in his nose. A trach would be a comfort measure for him. I don't think that anyone thinks putting a trach in will cure him. They just don't want to have the tube pulled, and put an immediate end to his death. They want him to die at home with his family, as his sister was permitted to do. I also think it is interesting that the hospital is running more tests. I also read another article that stated that there isn't a firm diagnosis in the first place. I suppose the hospital may want to run the tests just to be certain of the diagnosis prior to making recommendations to the family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetBean Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Joseph had the surgery! http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/21/baby-joseph-undergoes-surgery-portable-breathing-tube-hospital/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Sherry Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Maybe the doctors want to minimize his pain? Putting in a trach is going to be painful. Infection and pneumonia are painful. Even though parents have the right to make medical decisions, doctors have the right to refuse on ethical grounds. If I were the child's doctor, I would refuse. I do hope that it is something along these lines - of looking out for the child's best interest - not wanting more suffering for the child- rather than for some other reason that does not take into consideration the child's best interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.