PLEASE read this and tell me what grade level work this is:

[dorothy]

My dd wrote this today. She HATES writing, resists it, has hissy-fits, says she doesn't know anything about the subject (absolutely not true), etc.

 

I asked her to write about Marie Antoinette today and helped her come up with with her four paragraphs would discuss. (Simple ideas like: First Paragraph - Who was Marie Antoinette?) When done, I had her re-write the last paragraph where she had gone off on a tangent (this happens OFTEN). I asked her to refocus on what happened to Marie Antoinette.

 

Anyway, here it is, mistakes and all. Please read it, assess it, and tell me what grade level you think it belongs to. I am not saying what grade she is in because I would like to know what you think. I am concerned that we are behind and want non-biased feedback. Thanks.

 

Marie Antoinette was a beautiful Austrian princess. Her mother, Maria Therea was Holy Roman Empress of Austria. Marie was one of 17 children. When she was a girl she was betrothed to Louis XVI to make an alliance between France and Austria.

 

When Marie Antoiinette married Louis they moved to Versailles. Versailles was a large palace with magnificent halls and gardens who's flowers glowed like gems. She also had three private chambers which she received guests in. There were many courtiers that lived luxurious lives but were never allowed to leave the palace.

 

Marie Antoinette lived extravagantly. When ever she went to a ball she had the most fashionable dress. She loved parties and went on picknicks weekly. Marie was surrounded with everything she needed and wanted, she even had a real, little farm.

 

One day angry peasants barged into Versailles. They took the king and queen. The royal couple were put in prison. Marie Antoinette had a false trial and was sentenced to death because of treason. Eight months after her husband's death she was beheaded.

 

The End.

 

 

 

Thank you for reading this and I look forward to your assesments.

[5wolfcubs]

I'm going to say about 3rd grade. My 2nd grade ds uses "was" a lot too. She was this, she was that. But 4 paragraphs would take him all week to compose and then write. And I know he wouldn't put commas in!

[Shasta Mom]

hmmm....I'm a bad judge - I have a 3rd grader and don't know how others write..........I'll guess 4th grade, and a good 4th grade writer?

[swimnactmom]

I would say 5th but could be 4th.

[PeterPan]

Dorothy, I know you know this, but you're not being fair to yourself! If she's young and wrote this, it's very good and shows she's much better than her complaining lets on. If she's older, then she just has some work to do. The fact is she completed the assignment. I bet there are some parents with older dc here who wish their dc had written a 4 paragraph essay so nicely!!

 

You just need to pick up with her where she is. Did she complete the assignment as given? Did you have specific skills you've been working on and did she incorporate them? You want to have concrete expectations, pick ONE cateogory of thing to work on, and praise her for the overall effort. Was this a narration of a particular reading or a summary of a variety of things she's read over the past week or two? It's very nice and flows in a narrative, logical way. Sure there are some writing skills you'd expect of an older dc (variety of sentence openers, combine simple sentences, etc.), but the bones are there. She had thoughts and she got them on paper. I'd just figure out what the next step is and take it. You're doing fine! :)

[Kimber]

My thoughts exactly. You can't tell where a child is from one paper. She may be capable of more, but doesn't yet produce it.

 

What I see is someone who is digesting what she is learning. She seems to sometime know the rules and sometimes forgets them. Her spelling is pretty good. Her paper is focused without rambling off topic.

 

This is well done. But it doesn't mean she's given it her all.

 

(Edit, btw my dd10 writes similar papers. Her vocabulary is a little more varied, but her sentences are not as succinct as these. My dd10 is also a horrible speller with horrible penmanship. Also, we use CW Homer A, so her papers are about rewriting by scene which don't really produce paragraphs, for my child, that are as structured as what your daughter has produced. We're taking a year off of CW and are going to focus more on grammar that my child is lacking. Or at least applying the grammar she knows.)

[Dayle in Guatemala]

start with what you see needs work. Be realistic about what you can accomplish and give her plenty of opportunities to write. Does she keep a journal? How much copywork do you have her doing? My dc learn a lot from copywork, it really helps with their writing.

 

It's a good start.

[MamaChristina]

I also think it's around a 4th grade level especially when it comes to sentence structure. However, the vocabulary is a grade or so above that. Her sentences are rather short, but the vocabulary used is quite good.

 

If she is young, I sure wouldn't sweat it. Just help her see how she can lengthen some of the sentences and improve her punctuation. Those things come along with practice, age, and maturity anyways. All in all I think it's pretty good!:)

[LaMere Academy]

I think she did very well. My 6th grader probably wouldn't do as good of a job.

[Jean in Wisc]

My dd wrote this today. She HATES writing, resists it, has hissy-fits, says she doesn't know anything about the subject (absolutely not true), etc.

 

I asked her to write about Marie Antoinette today and helped her come up with with her four paragraphs would discuss. (Simple ideas like: First Paragraph - Who was Marie Antoinette?) When done, I had her re-write the last paragraph where she had gone off on a tangent (this happens OFTEN). I asked her to refocus on what happened to Marie Antoinette.

 

Anyway, here it is, mistakes and all. Please read it, assess it, and tell me what grade level you think it belongs to. I am not saying what grade she is in because I would like to know what you think. I am concerned that we are behind and want non-biased feedback. Thanks.

 

Marie Antoinette was a beautiful Austrian princess. Her mother, Maria Therea was Holy Roman Empress of Austria. Marie was one of 17 children. When she was a girl she was betrothed to Louis XVI to make an alliance between France and Austria.

 

When Marie Antoiinette married Louis they moved to Versailles. Versailles was a large palace with magnificent halls and gardens who's flowers glowed like gems. She also had three private chambers which she received guests in. There were many courtiers that lived luxurious lives but were never allowed to leave the palace.

 

Marie Antoinette lived extravagantly. When ever she went to a ball she had the most fashionable dress. She loved parties and went on picknicks weekly. Marie was surrounded with everything she needed and wanted, she even had a real, little farm.

 

One day angry peasants barged into Versailles. They took the king and queen. The royal couple were put in prison. Marie Antoinette had a false trial and was sentenced to death because of treason. Eight months after her husband's death she was beheaded.

 

The End.

 

 

 

Thank you for reading this and I look forward to your assesments.

 

I had a very interesting discussion with two people at my dd's school this week. One was the Honor's English professor who my daughter has had for the last two semesters. The other was a upper-level person in school--don't know her position. We were discussing how bored my dd was this year, and how she gets her homework done and has nothing to do. The English teacher would like my dd to major or minor in composition to add to my dd's communications degree. When I told them that I had never thought of my daughter as bright, they looked at each other with the look of incredulity.

 

I went on to say that my daughter had not written a paragraph that I had considered acceptable until she was in 9th grade. The stared at me blankly--not quite knowing what to think. I was talking about the girl who was given a 4-year scholarship for her "smokin' hot" essay (their term, not mine).

 

SO....if this had been my daughter's writing, it might have been around 9th grade or so before she had written anything this coherent.

 

If it had been my 2nd child, it might be more like 4th or 5th grade writing. His sentences make sense and flow into one another in a way my daughter's never did in her earlier years. Writing comes to him much more naturally.

 

My 3rd child is just starting to write paragraphs that fit together. He is in 8th grade.

 

Teaching writing is a matter of starting where the children are--not what grade they are in--and simply moving forward. Work it over and over again. Model what you want them to do. Try various writing programs, taking from each what you can use and moving on.

 

The paper shows promise.

 

J

[Mom2MLA]

I'm going to say its around 6th grade work since the assignment was completed in one day. My grade range would be 3rd to 7th because of the vocabulary and word choice. I could easily see my 6th grade dd completing something very similar to this in a one day setting, spending around 30-45 minutes on it. Would a one day assignment like that be much different next year? I don't know, hence the 7th grade end of the spectrum. My 3d grader might be able to dictate something similar to me, but not write it on her own, and her vocabulary might not be quite as advanced. No matter what grade your dd is, I think she did a good job with the assignment. Each paragraph has a theme and the paragraphs flow nicely together. As someone else said, the paper shows promise.

[dorothy]

My dd is 10.6 years old and is in 4th grade curriculum. She completed the assignment in about 30 minutes with my initial "set-up" help.

 

She is my eldest and I have not taught other kids her age or older, so I don't know what is "average" for this age and stage. I hate to say this, but her ps friends are WAY ahead of her in their writing and it worries me.

 

It is also concerning that it is such a source of frustration and irritation. I dread giving her a writing assignment because I know the emotional roller coaster that will ensue.

 

But, I am so very grateful to hear from you that she is within the right range. I hope it gets easier!

 

Thanks!!!

[Julie in GA]

I agree.

[Brindee]

I think if she writes about things that interest HER it helps as well! What does she have a passion for? Ask her to tell you about something she's excited about. Maybe you can record it and show her how well she told the story, and that's what she could do with writing as well!

 

My dd wasn't particularly interested in writing, until one of her older friends and her decided to write a book together, illustrations and all! Maybe she can do that---write a book and illustrate it. It could be about anything--have her use her imagination. Sometimes formal writing has a bad taste to kids who do not really enjoy writing. But imaginative writing, or something they have a passion about, and something where they can see the end product (making a book--writing illustrating and making the cover) and be proud of it, can sometimes spark their interest to work at it a little more.

 

My dd just turned 11 and is writing the way your dd is.

[TracyR]

I'm going to say at least4th , 5th or 6th grade . It sounds something like my daughter's writing but she tends to use alot of then's . Then this happened and then this happened instead of using alot of was . I thought the paper your daughter wrote was pretty well done . You could work more on using more vocabulary , sentence spicers I call them . Are you using a writing program ? Or just doing your own thing ?

[dorothy]

She does not want to do creative, journaling, or factual writing and hates narrations. I gave her the topic of Marie Antoinette because she loves history, has read numerous books on Marie Antoinette, has TOLD me all about Marie Antoinettes life and asks to learn more. Then, the second I ask her to write it down, she freezes us and says that she cannot think of anything to say.

 

I have tried Writing Strands, Calvert, and a progym one with fairy tales (not WT) that I cannot reacall. None of these have worked. We have done extensive copy work, she is a very advanced reader, and is descriptive in her speech.

[Brindee]

I gave her the topic of Marie Antoinette because she loves history, has read numerous books on Marie Antoinette, has TOLD me all about Marie Antoinettes life and asks to learn more. Then, the second I ask her to write it down, she freezes us and says that she cannot think of anything to say.

That's a toughy! That freezing is why I said to record her telling it. Maybe then she can do dictation---writing down what she herself, said? :)

 

I wonder if having others read what she writes, and praising her writing abilities (word usage, etc.) would help encourage her? Sometimes hearing it from someone else besides a parent makes it more palatable! :D

[Carol in Cal.]

Is it the process? Maybe she needs to be able to dictate some of her compositions to you. Copywork can continue to help with her physical writing, and with punctuation and grammar. Grammar lessons continue separately.

 

Is it the need for perfection? Some children really, really need everything to be right the first time so that they don't have to do it over. Those kids need to be walked through a process that sets an expectation in the beginning that at least 3 versions will be required. Even if it seems perfect, you tell them, we are going to do this for 3 days. Writer's Jungle has some very helpful techniques for that.

 

Is it the fact that she doesn't write like other authors that she loves to read yet? Helping with outlines and establishing a revision process can really help with this, as can summarizing good literature and being read to a lot.

 

Is it that it seems like an overwhelming task? Several on this board have said that your DD's paper would have taken their child a week. Maybe setting the expectation that one day she will jot down all of her ideas, and then on another day she will put them in order and add linking sentences and smooth/punch up the vocabulary, and on another day she will correct the mechanics would make this seem like an assignment that is not so long.

 

When DD was summarizing SOTW most days, I did not make her correct every single thing she wrote. I know that that flies in the face of a lot of advice in WTM, but really, it would have ruined her composition ability if I had pushed her like that. Instead, we picked pieces to improve and really perfected them; and continued with grammar, spelling, and copywork (all of which I was very picky about.) For many children it is important to have them write about something that truly engages them, and they are then intrinsically motivated to get it right in the end. For my DD, it was crucial to separate out the various skills and work on them in parallel. What is crucial for your DD? Once you figure that out, you will be able to help her become a great writer.

[Jenny in Atl]

I would say at least 4th or 5th. :iagree:

[EKS]

If my son, who is in 6th grade, wrote something like this, I'd be ecstatic.

[Tiramisu]

I sympathize with your anxieties, having just taken my children out of a school where everyone--including my children!--seemed to write so very well. My second grader and sixth grader really were very good writers last year when they were in school. This year it has been like pulling teeth to get them to write anything at all. With my second grader, I've resorted to copywork and dictation from Primary Language Lessons. The only reason she puts up with that is because she like to write cursive. She even dropped out of her coop writing class. My sixth grader has to write papers for coop classes, and she's been working on a 650 word science paper for over a month! If it weren't for the motivation the coop classes provide, I don't know what I'd do. And, all I heard for the last two years of school from very demanding teachers is that she was their best writer.

 

I'm thoroughly impressed with your 10 year old's writing this in 30 minutes! Wow!

[LizzyBee]

I hate to say this, but her ps friends are WAY ahead of her in their writing and it worries me.

 

They might be producing more writing, but they are not necessarily producing better writing. My oldest dd will be starting high school at a public charter school in July, and we registered her for classes last week. I asked the freshman English teacher what would be most important for us to focus on between now and when school starts. Ms. S. responded that all of the schools that feed into their school teach creative writing, so when she teaches freshman comp she assumes they know nothing; she starts from scratch. Kids in honors classes should know basic grammar, because grammar is covered only briefly in the honors classes, but she will spend more time on grammar in the standard English class. To put this in perspective, this school is in Wake County, where the Kindergarten students are expected to compose and write 3 sentences independently by the end of the school year. But the freshman comp teachers have to start from scratch? It's one of those things that makes you say, "huh?"

[Tiramisu]

I really agree that their creative writing skills may be magnificent, but they may have no idea how to start with other types of writing that require organization or a systematic approach. Good point.

[Guest]

so how do you teach them that? Your daughter's writing is outstanding. I would be jumping for joy if my almost 12 yr old wrote that. 4 sentences and he melts down. My husband is expecting him to be able to take notes from a book and write a reaction paper to something like a novel. He is constantly asking me when is J going to be able to do this? What is x,y,z, writing program going to do to teach him to write that sort of thing? I am at my wits end!

[ChrisN in NY]

Then, the second I ask her to write it down, she freezes us and says that she cannot think of anything to say.

 

 

This was me (and still can be) ME!

 

I've come to the conclusion that getting one's thoughts out via one's mouth and out via one's had are two VERY different things. Some kids are better at it than others.

 

It was very, very hard to make my thoughts slow down enough to keep pace with my writing speed. I much prefer to type, as that goes much faster. But I still have trouble sometimes.

 

You know, I don't think it has much to do with being "behind" (grade level) or not; I believe it's a matter of abilities and natural giftings. Some things just take longer to develop. For some kids, it's reading or math, for others is composition.

 

I noticed this same propensity with my oldest. Sometime during his high school years, my mother gave us her old computer, which ds used for his schoolwork. It made a HUGE difference for him.