Do you think Americans are getting/going to get thinner

[jld]

WOW! I didn't know this! With so many more people needing assistance and the programs being cut by 16%, it will have an impact. I have been reading cuts that several states are having to make because of decreased revenue. Some states are afraid of even meeting the federal requirements for particular programs! Many of the state cutbacks were healthcare related, which is think is truly ironic since there is such a big push for healthcare!

 

I truly think America is going to have to restructure. Not sure what it will look like when done.

 

I hope it doesn't look like Dickensian England (what I've been reading might happen).

 

Sadly, I think British influence has caused a lot of harm in the countries they colonized. I suppose you could argue it's European values, or heck, just human values of social hierarchy, but for some reason I think of the British system. I guess it's because I live in India, and I see how the caste system, in line with the British aristocratic caste system, has harmed the lower and middle classes. And sadly, some people in these groups have internalized their oppression, and feel that people from a higher caste, simply by the act of being born into that caste, deserve their greater wealth and privilege! I hope it's not the majority, and India is certainly working on this problem, but it has not ended.

 

And then I look at America, and I see the class problems there, too, except that there you're not allowed to call it class, or else you're "promoting class warfare". And if you say anything about the rich needing to pay more taxes, you have to immediately qualify it by saying how wonderful it is to be rich and how much good rich people have done for the world. I think it would be interesting to have people immediately thank illegal immigrants, every time they mentioned them, for their contribution to our country, not only for doing the hard, dirty jobs no one else will do, but for doing them at low wages so everyone else can save money. Wouldn't that be a switch?!

 

You know, a few months ago, I was appalled that people would even consider a health care system without gov't intervention. Now I'm expecting to see less and less gov't protection of the average person. I think we may see people just letting poor and even middle class people die if they can't afford stem cell transplants or other expensive medical procedures. And maybe people will find a way to blame them for not being "responsible enough" to have saved up a couple hundred thousand for those operations. It sounds crazy, but anything seems possible anymore.

 

And this has gone way off topic!:lol:

[mcconnellboys]

This is what I think, also. People eating cheaper will actually mean fatter, sicker people..... The cheapest food is the food that is the worst for us.

 

I've already seen articles about McDonald's doing so much more business in tough economic times because people think they can eat there cheaper than they can cook at home. They don't ask themselves, "but WHAT am I eating?" Or even, "What will be the end result of all this for my health?"

[Tabrett]

I hope it doesn't look like Dickensian England (what I've been reading might happen).

 

I don't thinks so. Dickensian England was caused by poor work conditions. We have laws standards that will prevent that type of society. Our biggest problem will be the lack of any job.

 

Sadly, I think British influence has caused a lot of harm in the countries they colonized. I suppose you could argue it's European values, or heck, just human values of social hierarchy, but for some reason I think of the British system. I guess it's because I live in India, and I see how the caste system, in line with the British aristocratic caste system, has harmed the lower and middle classes. And sadly, some people in these groups have internalized their oppression, and feel that people from a higher caste, simply by the act of being born into that caste, deserve their greater wealth and privilege! I hope it's not the majority, and India is certainly working on this problem, but it has not ended.

 

I don't think it is a Brittish influenced system. I think all countries have some sort of social hierarchy.

 

And then I look at America, and I see the class problems there, too, except that there you're not allowed to call it class, or else you're "promoting class warfare". And if you say anything about the rich needing to pay more taxes, you have to immediately qualify it by saying how wonderful it is to be rich and how much good rich people have done for the world. I think it would be interesting to have people immediately thank illegal immigrants, every time they mentioned them, for their contribution to our country, not only for doing the hard, dirty jobs no one else will do, but for doing them at low wages so everyone else can save money. Wouldn't that be a switch?!

 

Only I see the illegal immigrant problem causing the lower wages. When my dh had a small lawn mowing business, he couldn't compete with how little the immigrants would take for mowing lawns. The customers would have to had paid more if the immigrants didn't undercut the American who worked the jobs before they arrived. Wages have really decreased or stagnated since the influx of so many illegal immigrants. Saying that American refused to do these job and that is why we needed illegal immigrants is simply not true. The jobs were getting done before the influx. I know you didn't say that, but I have heard it said.

 

You know, a few months ago, I was appalled that people would even consider a health care system without gov't intervention. Now I'm expecting to see less and less gov't protection of the average person. I think we may see people just letting poor and even middle class people die if they can't afford stem cell transplants or other expensive medical procedures. And maybe people will find a way to blame them for not being "responsible enough" to have saved up a couple hundred thousand for those operations. It sounds crazy, but anything seems possible anymore.

 

A government assisted healthcare might have worked if our economy was strong. I don't think the government can afford to assist with healthcare in our present situation wether people want it or not. It is almost a mute point at this stage.

 

And this has gone way off topic!:lol:

 

Yep, way off topic. There are so many factors that can have a cause and effect on how people are going to feed themselves in the coming future! But we, on this board, are thinking and planning. Many minds together will help us survive the unknown!:D

[Impish]

Already in America those who have less money tend to be fatter. I don't see any reason this would change.

 

I hate to say it, but if I had to choose between buying healthy food and leaving the amount of calories completely deficient, or buying garbage food just to get enough to eat, I'd choose the garbage. I wouldn't like it, and I'd try every way I could to find some fruits and veggies, but I wouldn't go hungry (and I do mean hungry, not just feeling some appetite) to maintain high standards of food.

:iagree:

[Nicole M]

I hope it doesn't look like Dickensian England (what I've been reading might happen).

 

Sadly, I think British influence has caused a lot of harm in the countries they colonized. I suppose you could argue it's European values, or heck, just human values of social hierarchy, but for some reason I think of the British system. I guess it's because I live in India, and I see how the caste system, in line with the British aristocratic caste system, has harmed the lower and middle classes. And sadly, some people in these groups have internalized their oppression, and feel that people from a higher caste, simply by the act of being born into that caste, deserve their greater wealth and privilege! I hope it's not the majority, and India is certainly working on this problem, but it has not ended.

 

And then I look at America, and I see the class problems there, too, except that there you're not allowed to call it class, or else you're "promoting class warfare". And if you say anything about the rich needing to pay more taxes, you have to immediately qualify it by saying how wonderful it is to be rich and how much good rich people have done for the world. I think it would be interesting to have people immediately thank illegal immigrants, every time they mentioned them, for their contribution to our country, not only for doing the hard, dirty jobs no one else will do, but for doing them at low wages so everyone else can save money. Wouldn't that be a switch?!

 

You know, a few months ago, I was appalled that people would even consider a health care system without gov't intervention. Now I'm expecting to see less and less gov't protection of the average person. I think we may see people just letting poor and even middle class people die if they can't afford stem cell transplants or other expensive medical procedures. And maybe people will find a way to blame them for not being "responsible enough" to have saved up a couple hundred thousand for those operations. It sounds crazy, but anything seems possible anymore.

 

And this has gone way off topic!:lol:

 

Ding, ding!

 

Not totally off-topic. I have been thinking about Jane's comments, and yours, and wonder what the restructuring will look like, too. Food Assistance program cuts aren't the only issue, though that is a big one. In Washington, the proposed budget would eliminate the FA program altogether. But we also face a serious crisis with public transportation in our area. Bus fares and monthly passes have tripled in the last ten years. There are many urban poor who rely on public transportation to get to their jobs and also to get to stores. In many urban areas across the country, there are large sections of in cities that have no grocery stores, let alone farmer's markets. The only food available in some areas is from fast food restaurants and convenience stores (though liquor stores are on every corner). Rice and dried beans are just not available for many people, though many will find that hard to believe. We absolutely have a "caste" system in this country, and if the economic crisis prompts the kinds of changes (fuel, etc.) that Jane mentioned, then we will have famine in some areas. Crime rates have already increased, and that is likely to continue when people are hungry.

[joannqn]

Admittedly we cannot all eat a completely local diet. But it does seem to me that a great deal of energy is wasted shipping food. For example, when it is strawberry season in NC, why are the grocery stores selling California berries?

 

I was surprised our local health food store was shipping strawberries in from California instead of selling Washington grown strawberries. They explained that the kind of strawberries grown here, while good, have a very short shelf life. If I remember right, it's due to the sugar content. They look bad after a day and no one will buy them. I tried growing the local variety last summer and didn't have much success; they really don't last long at all (basically an eat of the plant berry).

[Nicole M]

I was surprised our local health food store was shipping strawberries in from California instead of selling Washington grown strawberries. They explained that the kind of strawberries grown here, while good, have a very short shelf life. If I remember right, it's due to the sugar content. They look bad after a day and no one will buy them. I tried growing the local variety last summer and didn't have much success; they really don't last long at all (basically an eat of the plant berry).

 

I live near you, and last year we had a terrible growing season. I had no plums (I usually have over a hundred pounds), very few cherries, and almost no strawberries, and they were very late. There are kazillions of varieties of strawberries you can grow here, so I'm going to try new ones. But don't give up! Hopefully next year will be better.

[Tammyla]

I know, the eggs we love are so expensive, but I fork out the money more often than not. In the winter, the trip is just too much of a hassle to make because of the roads.

 

 

 

You bring up a good point here. The vegetables that I buy directly from my local farmers are less expensive than the grocery store (for the most part). But I probably pay twice as much for my local eggs. They are worth every penny since they are so much better than chain store eggs but there is no local discount. I suspect this is because chicken feed is being shipped from somewhere else!

[MangoMama]

Not necessarily because people might tend to buy cheap, processed food rather than learn how to cook with cheaper whole foods, and that can be MORE fattening than good ol' whole food.

 

:iagree:

[Onceuponatime]

You bring up a good point here. The vegetables that I buy directly from my local farmers are less expensive than the grocery store (for the most part). But I probably pay twice as much for my local eggs. They are worth every penny since they are so much better than chain store eggs but there is no local discount. I suspect this is because chicken feed is being shipped from somewhere else!

 

Here, if small local farmers want to make any profit, they have to sell direct to the consumer. Otherwise, they operate at a loss. Many are downsizing or giving up their farms because of this. Fruits and veggies are cheaper bought direct, but meat, eggs and dairy are not. Labor, care and feeding of animals is not cheap and the farmer needs to be able to feed his own family as well. This depresses me every time I think about it.

 

Government regulations and the inefficient way the food business is run are killing the farmer, so who is getting all the money?

[DawnM]

I don't think most people are like you though. Most Americans, on food stamps or off, make fairly poor food choices.

 

2 apples are $1 but a whole box of Twinkie knock offs are $1.

 

I have watched several food specials on food lately and in interviewing families who have little to spend for groceries, they opt for the filler, calorie dense and cheap foods over quality but more expensive foods.

 

Dawn

 

You know, I don't know what other people would do. If all of a sudden I had half of what I spend now to spend on groceries, we would eat a lot more rice.:tongue_smilie: We would also eat many fewer fruits and vegetables. If it got bad enough, I could see us eating the cheap hotdogs cut-up in the rice. It would definitely affect our health and weight. If I couldn't buy enough calories for all of us, then yes, we would lose weight.

 

As for food stamps being cut back - yes, I think it will. President Obama increased the amounts last year as one of the stimulus measures, but in August Congress cut $12 billion from the program (about 16% or so.) Not exactly sure how that is going to work! i imagine it will eventually lead to cuts in benefits.

[phathui5]

Another thing to consider is that as people feel like they need to save money, they will do things like cancel gym memberships, stop paying for kids' sports programs and other things that promote healthfulness.

[creekland]

I would not take jld's comment personally. There does seem to be a correlation between the rise in obesity rates and soda consumption. That soda at a family gathering is not the problem.

 

I wasn't taking it personally. ;) I never take a thread personally (too thick skinned from subbing I suppose - or just my genetics).

 

I was just musing about something I often think about when I'm doing that shopping trip. I DO wonder what people think when they look at my cart then, but I'm not about to sneak around buying a little here and there 'cause I'm too lazy to care that much about what people think.

[Audrey]

I do not think they will get thinner. I think many people will buy more processed foods because it is cheaper. This will result in a lot of empty calorie eating and then eating more processed foods because they feel hungry,

:iagree: And then that will cause more health problems. It's a vicious cycle.

[Audrey]

Here

Government regulations and the inefficient way the food business is run are killing the farmer, so who is getting all the money?

 

 

All the middle men: the grain buyers, the millers, the processors, the abbatoirs, the packagers, the wholesalers....

[jld]

Yep, way off topic. There are so many factors that can have a cause and effect on how people are going to feed themselves in the coming future! But we, on this board, are thinking and planning. Many minds together will help us survive the unknown!:D

 

I think there were probably more economic dynamics to Dickensian England than just poor work conditions. I definitely think we could see a relaxation of standards for work conditions in America. I read recently that Ohio is trying to outlaw collective bargaining agreements for public employees. That is a step to dismantle worker protections.

 

With a Repub majority in many legislatures and governships, as well as in the House, I think we'll definitely see a push for less protection of the average citizen, and greater protection for businesses, specifically big businesses, and the wealthy in general. And there are plenty of conservative Democrats, including our President, who may be more than willing to go along with these efforts.

 

When people are desperate for work, they will probably accept any conditions just to get some money . . . look at illegal immigrants.

 

As far as illegal immigrants cutting wages . . . once again, if you put the responsibility on people hiring these illegals, you will likely see a quick change in how many illegals you have. They are here because there is a demand for their inexpensive labor. If there is no demand, they will leave. Fine/jail people who hire them, if you truly do not want illegal labor.

 

I really think many Americans have been propagandized by the corporate media to believe things that are destructive to their own economic futures. But people cannot be convinced otherwise. They keep believing the people who are using them, and they turn their anger onto people with even less power than themselves, like illegal immigrants. They do not question the social/economic hierarchy that causes the problems in the first place, as their religion and politics shun any such thoughts as "socialist" or "ungrateful".

 

It will be interesting to see if people will eventually get tired of being used, or if we will just see a new, more impoverished, more bitter, huge lower class emerge. While some people are getting richer and richer, many middle class people are falling into the lower class (I read yesterday in HuffPo that 1 in 3 Americans makes less than 20k -- amazing!). If we have two main classes, the rich and the poor, with maybe a small upper middle class management doing the work the rich don't feel like doing, our society may look a lot different than we ever thought possible.

 

I really wonder what is going to happen in America.

[creekland]

I think there were probably more economic dynamics to Dickensian England than just poor work conditions. I definitely think we could see a relaxation of standards for work conditions in America. I read recently that Ohio is trying to outlaw collective bargaining agreements for public employees. That is a step to dismantle worker protections.

 

With a Repub majority in many legislatures and governships, as well as in the House, I think we'll definitely see a push for less protection of the average citizen, and greater protection for businesses, specifically big businesses, and the wealthy in general. And there are plenty of conservative Democrats, including our President, who may be more than willing to go along with these efforts.

 

When people are desperate for work, they will probably accept any conditions just to get some money . . . look at illegal immigrants.

 

I really wonder what is going to happen in America.

 

You might be interested in reading this (copied from an older thread on conservative vs liberal on college confidential that I read recently):

 

Well, here's what one of the columnists at the Wall Street Journal has to say ... his name is Prof. Arthur Brooks, a professor at Syracuse University's Maxwell School of Public Affairs.

 

---------------------------------------

"The most recent evidence on this subject comes from the mid-1990s, in the University of Michigan's National Election Studies. These survey data uncover two facts. First, people who go to college are more likely to vote Republican than those who don't go to college. Adults 25 and under from Republican homes are, for example, 11 percentage points more likely to vote Republican if they attended college than if they didn't. And young adults from Democratic households are 11 percentage points less likely to vote Democrat if they've gone to college than if not.

 

Second, nearly everybody grows more likely to vote Republican as they age--but especially college graduates. It is no shock that the vast majority of people of all educational backgrounds from Republican homes vote Republican by age 40. It may come as more of a surprise that 40-year-olds with Democrat parents are far less likely to vote Democrat if they've gone to college than if they haven't. In fact, while three-quarters of the uneducated group still vote Democrat, the odds are only about 50-50 that the college graduates vote this way. And they've not all become skeptical political independents: Fully a third are registered Republicans.

 

Obviously, some kids turn left in college--but this appears to be the exception, not the rule. Does all this mean that our colleges and universities are actually breeding grounds for conservatism? Hardly. What the statistics really show is that higher education by itself doesn't affect political views very much. Rather, in addition to the strong influence of parents, it is higher incomes--which typically reward a college education in America--that push people to the right politically. In Republican families, the income effect reinforces parents' influence on their kids. In Democratic families, the two effects work against each other."

--------------------------------------------

 

CAVEAT : That was a study from the mid-1990's. I'm not sure if it applies today. So take it with caution as well.

 

_______________ End of copied part.

 

I'm one that was raised democrat from educationally employed parents. Once I got into the work world - the business world - and saw what I consider reality - I switched parties. I will certainly NOT say the Republicans have all the answers or always do everything right, but it's a myth to think the Democrats always do either. There is a lot of abuse of the "worker protection" systems including welfare, unions, and gov't control/regulations.

 

We can't get into politics without getting the thread deleted, but... just wanted to mention the above. It seems more educated people solely in education tend to be democrats (college profs, teachers) meaning the theory sounds great and makes sense. However, take those same demographics (went to college) and put them in the rest of the world and they tend to switch to be republican (when they see the theory not work in reality).

 

Then there are plenty of us in the middle (I think) who would like to reel in the abuses from the wealthy while also reeling in the abuses from the non-wealthy.

[jld]

You might be interested in reading this (copied from an older thread on conservative vs liberal on college confidential that I read recently):

 

Well, here's what one of the columnists at the Wall Street Journal has to say ... his name is Prof. Arthur Brooks, a professor at Syracuse University's Maxwell School of Public Affairs.

 

---------------------------------------

"The most recent evidence on this subject comes from the mid-1990s, in the University of Michigan's National Election Studies. These survey data uncover two facts. First, people who go to college are more likely to vote Republican than those who don't go to college. Adults 25 and under from Republican homes are, for example, 11 percentage points more likely to vote Republican if they attended college than if they didn't. And young adults from Democratic households are 11 percentage points less likely to vote Democrat if they've gone to college than if not.

 

Second, nearly everybody grows more likely to vote Republican as they age--but especially college graduates. It is no shock that the vast majority of people of all educational backgrounds from Republican homes vote Republican by age 40. It may come as more of a surprise that 40-year-olds with Democrat parents are far less likely to vote Democrat if they've gone to college than if they haven't. In fact, while three-quarters of the uneducated group still vote Democrat, the odds are only about 50-50 that the college graduates vote this way. And they've not all become skeptical political independents: Fully a third are registered Republicans.

 

Obviously, some kids turn left in college--but this appears to be the exception, not the rule. Does all this mean that our colleges and universities are actually breeding grounds for conservatism? Hardly. What the statistics really show is that higher education by itself doesn't affect political views very much. Rather, in addition to the strong influence of parents, it is higher incomes--which typically reward a college education in America--that push people to the right politically. In Republican families, the income effect reinforces parents' influence on their kids. In Democratic families, the two effects work against each other."

--------------------------------------------

 

CAVEAT : That was a study from the mid-1990's. I'm not sure if it applies today. So take it with caution as well.

 

_______________ End of copied part.

 

I'm one that was raised democrat from educationally employed parents. Once I got into the work world - the business world - and saw what I consider reality - I switched parties. I will certainly NOT say the Republicans have all the answers or always do everything right, but it's a myth to think the Democrats always do either. There is a lot of abuse of the "worker protection" systems including welfare, unions, and gov't control/regulations.

 

We can't get into politics without getting the thread deleted, but... just wanted to mention the above. It seems more educated people solely in education tend to be democrats (college profs, teachers) meaning the theory sounds great and makes sense. However, take those same demographics (went to college) and put them in the rest of the world and they tend to switch to be republican (when they see the theory not work in reality).

 

Then there are plenty of us in the middle (I think) who would like to reel in the abuses from the wealthy while also reeling in the abuses from the non-wealthy.

 

Thanks, creekland. I think both parties are increasingly conservative, and may start just looking like one party very soon, if not already. The nation in general seems to be increasingly conservative, at least the vocal part of the nation. Just my opinion, of course.

[mirth]

'

[jld]

No, but I think people's teeth may start to look worse.

 

Yes. I've been thinking about this. I see a lot of people here in India with missing or rotten teeth. I can only imagine what I would look like if I hadn't been able to have dental work when I've needed it.

 

One of the guys working on our house told me he couldn't afford dental work. The dentist we go to is really slow, too, compared to other years. The periodontist has cut his fees in half. I guess people just can't afford to go, so they don't.

 

I don't think Americans know what they're getting into . . . the money borrowed for the wars and the tax cuts would go a long way towards starting a single payer medical/dental system.