TOG users.....share your best tips!

[jewel7123]

I'm starting Tapestry of Grace Year 1 next year with my will be 1st grader and I'd love to hear from those of you who have used or currently use this curriculum. Share your best tips for how you make TOG work for you! So many people mention the "TOG Fog". Did you get this and if so, how did you get out of it and work through the issues you had in the beginning? Another thing I've heard is how overwhelming TOG can be because of the huge variety of choices offered. I'd love to hear how you narrow down and decide which resources to use and which to leave on the table. Do you have a thought process you go through or a formula behind your choices? I'm all ears ladies! :bigear:

[specialmama]

I didn't have the TOG fog, but I poured over my material for 4 months before beginning. I was so nervous about that dreaded TOG fog but it never came; I think preparedness is key. This is my 5th year of using TOG and the biggest tip I have is is don't be afraid to tweak it. Here's some other random thoughts: do not buy your books until you have your yearplan in front of you. If money is no object, fine. But most of us go though with a fine toothed comb and end up buying a lot less. The least I've bought were 25% of the book list, and the most is 100%. It is easier to have them on hand though, as libraries aren't too reliable and if the book isn't in on time, then it's very discouraging to feel behind. The left page is recommended reading, the right side is alternate reading, to use if you can't locate the books on the left or if you want to hop off the highway and sightsee. If you have UG kids, SOTW is listed as an alternate book quite often. Using it in leui (sp?) of the recommended books can save $$$. Don't worry about knowing which activities to do or how to choose. It's like lunch time: sandwich, salad, lobster, soup or cake. You will know what you're up for and your kids will know what they're craving too. I recommend Writing Aids and Map Aids, they dove tail with the program beautifully. Have fun planning! I hope you'll enjoy it as much as I do!

Edited December 16, 2010 by specialmama

[LAmom]

:bigear:

 

Looking to start next year, too, but a bit overwhelmed from things I have heard about it!!

[HSMom2One]

I agree with everything SpecialMama said, and I have to say I did not have the fog either. This is our second year with TOG and it has been an incredible journey for my dd and I. I think it would be different for you if you were starting with an older student, but lucky for you it will be an easy beginning with a young LG student. It will be like taking baby steps into the program, and you'll be able to customize and build from there. Once the D and R levels are at hand, it does get more involved. For now, you can keep it simple, and hopefully you'll take the opportunity to self educate by reading the teacher notes for each week plan even though you will not need to pass all the info on to your little one just yet. The more YOU learn now will help you up ahead when you go through the 4-year cycle again.

 

I also recommend using SOTW, it has been a great added volume that my dd really enjoys and loves. We are on D level and still using it btw. I'd also recommend getting as many of the literature books as you can for your little one. If you can afford the core history books it would be great, but if not, then you could stick with SOTW for now. We started with UG level last year and I bought ALL the books, and we utilized all of them. It was doable and dd and I learned SO much that I am still amazed as I look back. But as SpecialMama pointed out, this is not a necessity in order for the program to work.

 

Writing & Map Aids are both fantastic and I would personally not use TOG without including them. Another plus are the SAP pages. I set up our notebooks just as they recommend at Lampstand and it works very well for us.

 

Go to the website and dig in to all the helps that are there. Be sure to go through the section about "Out of the Shrinkwrap", it was so helpful for me. The more time you spend on learning how to use the program, the better off you will be. If you feel comfortable with it, your student will also. If you are passionate about it, your student will want to learn too. If you are joyful about teaching all of the beautiful lessons laid out for you, your student will joyfully receive them.

 

Blessings as you set out on this new journey!

 

Lucinda

Edited December 16, 2010 by HSMom2One

[jewel7123]

Bumping up for the morning crowd!

[momee]

Don't do too much at first. Concentrate on the kids learning to make a schedule and use it.

 

That's my best advice after using TOG for years. That schedule making is crucial to their success later. Marcia has lots of info on how to do this.

 

Another mistake was not teaching the kids how TOG is setup. Where do they! get the maps, where do they look for their literature worksheets (Student Activity Page) etc.

 

Give them as much info for their success as possible.

 

Those first weeks they'll need to learn where to keep their schedule and where there books will be. Really, give them lots of grace on this. YOU have poured over TOG but they haven't.

[Kipling]

I agree with what most of the other people have said.

We started TOG last year with my 1st grader and pre-K-er. We're doing year 2 this year. What I have learned is to not be tied to the book lists. I like to buy some of the books to build up our home library, but I definitely don't buy all of them. I get some from the library, and I have given myself much more liberty to veer off the suggested book list. For example, if TOG recommends Viking book X, and I don't want to buy it, but my library doesn't carry it, I do a library search for other juvenile Viking books and just use those instead. I try to buy all the "spines" - the books that are used for many weeks (there aren't too many of those in year 1, more in year 2). And I like to buy the literature books because those are the ones my kids want to read over and over again.

 

Because my kids are young, I don't have them do any of the scheduling or planning. I just tell them, "we will be learning about X this week," and I give them student activity pages or maps on the days I want them to do those assignments.

 

I also recommend Writing Aids and Map Aids. Those have been really useful. I purchased the lapbook CD, looked through it, and then resold it because I figured I could do those on my own. I bought my year 2 set used and it came with the units, WA, MA, the lapbook CDs, and the evaluation CDs, and it was a lot cheaper than if I had bought all those things new. Check the TOG forum to buy a used set. There are always a lot more people reselling year one plans than any other years (people who tried it once and it didn't work for them). You can get a pretty good deal that way.

 

TOG is definitely not a open-and-go kind of curriculum, so you do need to be prepared to spend some time reading and planning in advance (Ideally, I spend about 1-3 hours planning for school each Sunday). It's best to read and plan more than 1 week ahead since you may need to order books or purchase art supplies.

 

I keep a school notebook with my daily/weekly lesson plans, reading lists, etc. I always keep the current three weeks of TOG in that notebook so that I'm not having to tote around a whole unit's worth of TOG.

 

HTH

[momee]

If I'd paid more attention to your children's ages I would not have replied at all :)

 

At that age I would say simply get some history books that look interesting and read the bible with them. Teach them obedience:tongue_smilie:, first time - thorough - cheerful obedience.

 

Sorry for the previous post, it's helpful but not for your ages.

Edited December 16, 2010 by momee

[lovinmomma]

If I'd paid more attention to your children's ages I would not have replied at all :)

 

Ainteresting and read t that age I would say simply get some history books that look the bible with them. Teach them obedience:tongue_smilie:, first time - thorough - cheerful obedience.

 

Sorry for the previous post, it's helpful but not for your ages.

 

This is what I'm going to be doing. Essentially TOG will be a huge (and very expensive) book list with activity guide to me. :) We are more CM, relaxed homeschoolers so TOG is too much for us the way that it's laid out. I'm not letting TOG run me. I'm in charge.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

At that age I would use the map aids, consider evaluations as optional, and don't bother with writing aids if you plan on using another writing program.

 

Also-pay attention to the coloring books that are included, sometimes on the 2nd page of readings. I think at that age it can be a great activity for busy hands when doing a read aloud.

 

If you have a crafty child do look at the lap books or appropriate History Pocket books (sometimes they are on the booklist).

[jewel7123]

Thanks for the suggestions so far ladies. I will NOT be using SOTW during our first rotation.....its my personal preference as I prefer to limit discussion of gods/goddesses, monsters, etc.

 

KristenD, I sent you an email. We actually chatted about TOG several months back, lol! You are in the same boat as me with the ages so I appreciate your advice.

[JadeOrchidSong]

 

I also recommend using SOTW, it has been a great added volume that my dd really enjoys and loves. We are on D level and still using it btw. I'd also recommend getting as many of the literature books as you can for your little one. If you can afford the core history books it would be great, but if not, then you could stick with SOTW for now. We started with UG level last year and I bought ALL the books, and we utilized all of them. It was doable and dd and I learned SO much that I am still amazed as I look back. But as SpecialMama pointed out, this is not a necessity in order for the program to work.

 

Writing & Map Aids are both fantastic and I would personally not use TOG without including them. Another plus are the SAP pages. I set up our notebooks just as they recommend at Lampstand and it works very well for us.

 

Go to the website and dig in to all the helps that are there. Be sure to go through the section about "Out of the Shrinkwrap", it was so helpful for me. The more time you spend on learning how to use the program, the better off you will be. If you feel comfortable with it, your student will also. If you are passionate about it, your student will want to learn too. If you are joyful about teaching all of the beautiful lessons laid out for you, your student will joyfully receive them.

 

Blessings as you set out on this new journey!

 

Lucinda

I don't have good libraries here and the only way I can do TOG would be to buy ALL the books, which can be $$$. So I am interested in knowing if you buy all the spine books or ALL the books. I am still considering TOG for upper grammar age. Right now my kids are 8 and 6, and we enjoy SOTW because I supplement with the books recommended in the AG but if we don't find any or don't have time to the books, we are fine. But with TOG, the books in the upper grammar up will be more crucial to have on hand. I hate to have to rely on the libraries that are not very reliable.

[MSNative]

Make a TOG book for at least the first unit. Print out everything you want your kids to do - coloring pages, maps, etc. (there are tons free online) Use the time now to find great online or field trip activities and put a paper about that in the proper place in your TOG book for them. This will save you countless hours of rushing to "quick print one thing" while your kids wander off somewhere else.

 

Make a list of all the books you plan on using. See if they are in your library system. Put them on hold at least a week before you want them.

 

Make a list of all the projects you want to do. Get all of the supplies and keep them handy. I organize most of mine in ziploc bags and keep one box of items used in multiple projects (glue, string, clay, etc.)

 

Basically, go through and plan out everything and have it all ready. Then when you get to that week, viola, it's all there and you are ready to go.

[TXMary2]

I have not experienced the FOG. I love, love, love TOG! My best tip is to take the time to read through everything before trying to implement it. I always read the teacher notes, but that is becuase I have a D/R student. For my first grader we just read the books, do the literature SAP's together and do the fine arts projects whenever we have time.

 

This is our first school year with TOG and we are on Yr 2 U3. I can't wait until we roll around to Year 1 because it looks fascinating. Have fun!!!

[Tracy]

I used TOG for the first time this year with my oldest, dd5, and I did not experience the "fog." I think it helps to start with your oldest child in LG, because it doesn't really matter so much if you overlook something. Also, I decided on a very light schedule (M: 1 history book, W: Mapping, Th: 1 Literature book, F: Activity). Some weeks, there was more that I wanted to do. Sometimes we were able to do more, and other times, we did not. Some weeks, we skipped the activity, though not usually. I didn't fret about it.

 

Next year, I would like to add writing, timeline and possibly some literature worksheets or vocabulary work. I purposely started TOG now so that I would have 4 years to figure it out before it really mattered what I was doing. So I have been able to feel very relaxed about it.

[johnandtinagilbert]

At your tender dcs tender ages, snuggle for read alouds; color; keep it hands on; have fun bringing history to life.

 

For you, once you get your general schedule in place, begin reading the teacher's notes or dialectic/rhetoric resources. You'll learn so much for the next time around. Enjoy the free time to learn now -- you'll appreciate that you did later on!

[jewel7123]

Thank you for all the encouragement ladies! I really appreciate it.

[Karenciavo]

There's no real history discussion for that level so I come up with a list of facts I want my grammar stage son to know and I have him narrate back. I make copy sheets and do some lapbooking with him - not the lapbooks TOG sells. We also make people flash cards, I goggle images and we paste the name and image on one side and the description of the person on the other.

[TXMary2]

There's no real history discussion for that level so I come up with a list of facts I want my grammar stage son to know and I have him narrate back. I make copy sheets and do some lapbooking with him - not the lapbooks TOG sells. We also make people flash cards, I goggle images and we paste the name and image on one side and the description of the person on the other.

 

 

I love the people flash card idea! Thanks!

[HSMom2One]

I don't have good libraries here and the only way I can do TOG would be to buy ALL the books, which can be $$$. So I am interested in knowing if you buy all the spine books or ALL the books. I am still considering TOG for upper grammar age. Right now my kids are 8 and 6, and we enjoy SOTW because I supplement with the books recommended in the AG but if we don't find any or don't have time to the books, we are fine. But with TOG, the books in the upper grammar up will be more crucial to have on hand. I hate to have to rely on the libraries that are not very reliable.

 

Well, to begin I have to say that we don't have a local library source that I can use either. I've shared this before on other threads, but basically we are in a rural area and the only libraries are within city limits and we'd have to pay fees to use them. Not only that, but not all books on the TOG lists are even available, so I prefer to just get our own books. Secondly, since I only have one student and I want to really learn as much about using TOG, I have been obtaining ALL the books that are listed for her grade level, plus I always use SOTW. Please note that I look for bargains and have my eye open all during the year. I buy used, new, paperback swap, etc. as I gather them up for future use and keep my lists updated. Whatever I don't have when we are about to start a new unit, I buy from Amazon with my Prime membership. After we are finished with the books, I keep what we want for the family library, then I resell the ones we don't need. (Yes, this is expensive, but I spread it out over the months to make it more doable. I also feel it is worth it as an excellent education for my child, so I am willing to sacrifice. All in all, the cost of the books are far less expensive than private school.)

 

Since doing this I've learned which type of books work the best for us. After a year of using TOG I have let go of just a few here and there, but I still mostly obtain the majority on the list, and my dd just eats it all up!! We spread out the reading over two weeks instead of one often times, especially since she is just now at D level, but last year as an UG level student she read all of the assignments for history core, literature, Bible and church history, etc. PLUS SOTW.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Chelli]

"I will NOT be using SOTW during our first rotation.....its my personal preference as I prefer to limit discussion of gods/goddesses, monsters, etc. "

 

I am using TOG for the first time this year with my first grader as well. I started on Year 2 instead of Year 1 because my daughter is really into princesses, castles, etc. which is covered in Year 2. I'll go back and pick up Year 1 later when she is older and can handle all of the other stuff. So don't let what is talked about in Year 1 bother you, just pick a different time period and go for it!

[Crafty Mathy Mom]

I did have the FOG, but I jumped in with one at Lower Grammar and one at Dialectic. I really wish that I had started earlier and eased in rather than being blindsided with Dialectic. That level is a lot of work.

 

With children you age, I would think that TOG would be a book and activity guide. Read some books, color some maps and have fun with an activity or two a week. Also use this rotation for your own personal study.

[Janice in NJ]

Hi. (For folks who haven't been a part of my pm with the original poster: Jennifer sent me a pm with some questions about a post I made over on the TOG boards regarding self-educating with little ones in tow. We've pm'ed back and forth a couple of times. My last installment got a bit long-winded and won't send. So I'm posting here. In a prior pm, I suggested the DK spine recommended in TWTM logic-stage section as a great starting point for a momma to get the big picture of history in a short amount of reading time. This is cheaper than purchasing all of the TOG D books NOW. When your kids get to the D stage, you'll probably want the books that are in print at the time; they will match the fresh digital edition of TOG that will be available at the time.)

 

Anyway - not sure if this post will help anyone else. But here it is....

 

Hi Jennifer,

 

The TOG books move in and out of print often. Before the digital edition of TOG came out, it made sense to purchase the books to match your printed year plan even if you weren't going to need them for a while. However with the new digital editions, it make better sense to wait and purchase the books for your kids when they need them. The books themselves are not special. Kid's books move in and out of print all the time. Sometimes "gems" are lost, but then again sometimes absolute "gems" appear. So either way, it doesn't hurt to wait to buy the books as your kids need them. As an adult, you need to generate a sense of the flow of history. But you're an adult, you can manage this in less time than your D level students will need so you don't NEED to do as much reading as they will do.

 

Your D level students will already have a tool box filled with names and events and ideas. Their grammar level edition fills their minds with stories: grist for the mill. The TOG D level plan is designed to keep them READING during the D level. Kids need to be reading lots and lots in order to be well-educated. It's just the way it works; drop by drop, week by week - tons of time spent reading pays big dividends. So the AMOUNT of reading per week is more than you need to do as an adult in order to "get it."

 

The TOG program at the D level is when kids will begin to organize all of the stories into a cause-effect pattern. They will learn to locate main ideas in their reading. They will learn to correctly connect effects to causes, and they will learn that there can be huge flaws in thinking when trying to reduce the human condition to a set of formulas. Social science just doesn't work the same as the natural sciences. It's a grand ride!

 

BUT you as an adult don't need to specifically DO every D level history assignment in order to "get this." Hsing is a busy, busy time. Your time is just better spent elsewhere. The R level literature requires more pre-knowledge. And it takes more time to read the complete works; they're worth it. It just takes time.

 

It's important. Start there. You can reduce the amount of momma-education TIME spent on history by starting with a spine and your teacher's notes. You can acquire an immense knowledge of history by reading a spine (like the Kingfisher and/or the DK text). Then follow up by reading the TOG printed Teacher's Notes each week. Notice how the D level students are being asked to extract main ideas from their reading. As you move into units 2, 3, and 4, the students are being asked to draw connections from their reading. Look at the DK book. Look at the side bars along each article. There are before and after "lists." Look through the timelines. Start to think about the event on the page. Historians have "decided" that the before events contributed to this event, and that the after events came about as a result. Please understand that this is NOT written in stone as some textbooks would have you believe. Not EVERY historian agrees about this list. If you plopped the list down among a group of ten historians, I suspect that they would say, "Yes....... but!" and the debate would commence. And it's the nuances of the debate that make it interesting. When kids learn about history this way, they start to see the world of the present in a different light. The current events of the present take on a whole new meaning. Issues have always had sides. Perspective matters. History was once a "current event." Just as there is no simple or "correct" interpretation of the conflicts of today, there really is no simple "view" of past disruptions. TOG will help your children to see history this way. Textbooks have a harder time because they tend to speak with one voice, and they just have less ROOM. A TOG-educated D student will read a huge stack of pages in a year. If you place it on the table next to a textbook, you can see why the textbook is at a structural disadvantage. It just doesn't have room to convey that sense of debate. It must focus on conveying the "generally" accepted view as fact. Make sense?

 

History is a study of the human condition with many branches and MUCH debate. The adult history section of your library is FILLED with texts about one tiny sliver of a topic. The author of that book is trying to argue ONE page of that DK book. One major event/person/era. He wants to unveil some new insight about the causes of that event and wants to generate new revelation about the effects of that event. He's even got something to say about the "facts" of the actual event. And new texts are being published every day. This is a thriving world of ideas. It's fun to engage and become a part of it in a knowledgeable way.

 

Some authors do it well. Some not as well. But history is a field of interesting discovery and debate. And the debate is a current one. History is not over. Understanding the past is a project of the present. A GREAT perspective that is imparted well using the TOG D method.

 

BUT for now, you just don't need to spend a ton of money on a specific set of books for an adult D level study. When your oldest gets to the D level, you will have a FULL plate. At that point, you will want to hand her the actual TOG books and let her wander off to do her history for the week. Training 6th to 8th grade kids to plan for a once-a-week face-time meeting with mom over their history work is key. Especially if you have little ones to teach. Even in jr. high, skill subjects like reading, writing, and mathematics require a TON of face-time with the mom each day. Prepping for face time in history and literature requires time too. And you'll be teaching little ones who can accomplish VERY little without a momma at their elbow. At THAT point, you'll appreciate the TOG book that exactly matches your year-plan for your D kids. They can be trained to read, answer the questions, do the map work or projects, etc in order to prep for that face-time with you. They need to be able to do this with nary a glance from the momma. THAT's when you'll need THE books listed. It shortens your planning time and streamlines your homeschooling immensely.

 

But you don't need them now. A spine and the teacher's notes are fine. You just need to know that you're looking for those connections. Increase your awareness of the "flow" of history. Start to see things you hadn't seen before. Your library is an IMMENSE playground for you IF YOU HAVE THE TIME. (You don't have questions to answer that are tied to a specific book.) If you have extra time spend it there. I would seriously recommend the kid's section. I learned SO much when I began homeschooling by reading from the Juvenile Section. (The adult section was too narrow; too detailed. I wasn't ready. The big books made me sleepy.)

 

BUT you don't even need to explore the library at this point unless you have the time.

 

In summary:

1. Pick one R level Literature Book from each unit. Start there. These are hard. Don't get discouraged. You can do it. It took me YEARS to "get" the great books. I felt like SUCH a dolt for SO long. But I kept trying. The Tortoise wins the race here!!!! AND I figured it out BEFORE my oldest hit 9th grade. YEA! But don't get discouraged. Epic poetry is tough! Just keep approaching the on-ramp with enthusiasm. A side benefit: You'll have much empathy for your kids. EVERYTHING they are doing is daunting. Hsing can be very humbling for the kids AND the momma. Trying to figure out "epic poetry" reminded me of how "hard" school can be. So just keep trying! Even when I didn't get it, the process of trying taught me MUCH. And eventually the light came on. Woo-Hoo! :001_smile:

 

2. Read through the section of the DK/Kingfisher text that corresponds with the unit of history you are covering. (See the Yellow Overview pages in each week plan for dates and events. It will help you line up the units with your spine. The unit overview is VERY helpful too.) TRY to read these book(s) in chunks before you start the unit. Maybe your husband could watch the kids for three hours so you can wander off to JUST read. (Don't take your computer. :001_smile: JUST go read.) You'll get a sense of the forest - a bird's eye view - before you start to explore things in more detail week by week.

 

3. Read the Teacher's Notes for each week plan - in one sitting if you can too. Then re-read these each week as you go. You'll start to make connections with even the LG books as you read them with your kids.

 

4. IF you have the time, explore the juvenile section of your library for more books for you. This isn't necessary - just if you want more. And don't forget biographies. GREAT stuff. See the Yellow Overview Pages for folks to read about. Juvenile bios are great. Short and concise.

more...

[Janice in NJ]

the rest of my ramblings....

 

I'm sure the Butler edition is fine. There are lots of "acceptable" translations of the Odyssey. If you get completely stumped, explore your library to see what editions they have. Time spent hitting dead ends isn't always unproductive. Process yields dividends too.

 

Hope that helps!

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

[jewel7123]

When your kids get to the D stage, you'll probably want the books that are in print at the time; they will match the fresh digital edition of TOG that will be available at the time.)

 

The TOG books move in and out of print often. Before the digital edition of TOG came out, it made sense to purchase the books to match your printed year plan even if you weren't going to need them for a while. However with the new digital editions, it make better sense to wait and purchase the books for your kids when they need them. The books themselves are not special. Kid's books move in and out of print all the time. Sometimes "gems" are lost, but then again sometimes absolute "gems" appear. So either way, it doesn't hurt to wait to buy the books as your kids need them.

 

Does this apply even if you don't have DE but print only? Right now I only have the print version, and I plan to keep it that way (1) because I like holding a book in my hands vs. reading on computer and (2) because once you get DE there's no resell option. So if I were to stay with print only would it make sense for me to purchase SOME of the books now, say the ones that are no longer in print?

 

Another question. You said in a previous conversation not to purchase the Norton Anthology of Western Literature, because I may not want that edition when my kids get to high school level. However, if I don't purchase it, then it's impossible for me to know what literature works are included, since Amazon doesn't have a preview, table of contents, nada! Neither does Google Book Search...............

 

Ok, I just pulled out my TOG print edition and glanced through and it looks like when Norton is scheduled it tells you the title of the work you're reading, so that's good. But it doesn't say which version or translation.....does that matter? For example, Gilgamesh......can I just get whatever version is available at my library?

 

THANK YOU JANICE for your words of wisdom.....I greatly appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions and help me work through this.

[Georgiana Daniels]

Hi. (For folks who haven't been a part of my pm with the original poster: Jennifer sent me a pm with some questions about a post I made over on the TOG boards regarding self-educating with little ones in tow. We've pm'ed back and forth a couple of times. My last installment got a bit long-winded and won't send. So I'm posting here. In a prior pm, I suggested the DK spine recommended in TWTM logic-stage section as a great starting point for a momma to get the big picture of history in a short amount of reading time. This is cheaper than purchasing all of the TOG D books NOW. When your kids get to the D stage, you'll probably want the books that are in print at the time; they will match the fresh digital edition of TOG that will be available at the time.)

 

Anyway - not sure if this post will help anyone else. But here it is....

 

Hi Jennifer,

 

The TOG books move in and out of print often. Before the digital edition of TOG came out, it made sense to purchase the books to match your printed year plan even if you weren't going to need them for a while. However with the new digital editions, it make better sense to wait and purchase the books for your kids when they need them. The books themselves are not special. Kid's books move in and out of print all the time. Sometimes "gems" are lost, but then again sometimes absolute "gems" appear. So either way, it doesn't hurt to wait to buy the books as your kids need them. As an adult, you need to generate a sense of the flow of history. But you're an adult, you can manage this in less time than your D level students will need so you don't NEED to do as much reading as they will do.

 

Your D level students will already have a tool box filled with names and events and ideas. Their grammar level edition fills their minds with stories: grist for the mill. The TOG D level plan is designed to keep them READING during the D level. Kids need to be reading lots and lots in order to be well-educated. It's just the way it works; drop by drop, week by week - tons of time spent reading pays big dividends. So the AMOUNT of reading per week is more than you need to do as an adult in order to "get it."

 

The TOG program at the D level is when kids will begin to organize all of the stories into a cause-effect pattern. They will learn to locate main ideas in their reading. They will learn to correctly connect effects to causes, and they will learn that there can be huge flaws in thinking when trying to reduce the human condition to a set of formulas. Social science just doesn't work the same as the natural sciences. It's a grand ride!

 

BUT you as an adult don't need to specifically DO every D level history assignment in order to "get this." Hsing is a busy, busy time. Your time is just better spent elsewhere. The R level literature requires more pre-knowledge. And it takes more time to read the complete works; they're worth it. It just takes time.

 

It's important. Start there. You can reduce the amount of momma-education TIME spent on history by starting with a spine and your teacher's notes. You can acquire an immense knowledge of history by reading a spine (like the Kingfisher and/or the DK text). Then follow up by reading the TOG printed Teacher's Notes each week. Notice how the D level students are being asked to extract main ideas from their reading. As you move into units 2, 3, and 4, the students are being asked to draw connections from their reading. Look at the DK book. Look at the side bars along each article. There are before and after "lists." Look through the timelines. Start to think about the event on the page. Historians have "decided" that the before events contributed to this event, and that the after events came about as a result. Please understand that this is NOT written in stone as some textbooks would have you believe. Not EVERY historian agrees about this list. If you plopped the list down among a group of ten historians, I suspect that they would say, "Yes....... but!" and the debate would commence. And it's the nuances of the debate that make it interesting. When kids learn about history this way, they start to see the world of the present in a different light. The current events of the present take on a whole new meaning. Issues have always had sides. Perspective matters. History was once a "current event." Just as there is no simple or "correct" interpretation of the conflicts of today, there really is no simple "view" of past disruptions. TOG will help your children to see history this way. Textbooks have a harder time because they tend to speak with one voice, and they just have less ROOM. A TOG-educated D student will read a huge stack of pages in a year. If you place it on the table next to a textbook, you can see why the textbook is at a structural disadvantage. It just doesn't have room to convey that sense of debate. It must focus on conveying the "generally" accepted view as fact. Make sense?

 

History is a study of the human condition with many branches and MUCH debate. The adult history section of your library is FILLED with texts about one tiny sliver of a topic. The author of that book is trying to argue ONE page of that DK book. One major event/person/era. He wants to unveil some new insight about the causes of that event and wants to generate new revelation about the effects of that event. He's even got something to say about the "facts" of the actual event. And new texts are being published every day. This is a thriving world of ideas. It's fun to engage and become a part of it in a knowledgeable way.

 

Some authors do it well. Some not as well. But history is a field of interesting discovery and debate. And the debate is a current one. History is not over. Understanding the past is a project of the present. A GREAT perspective that is imparted well using the TOG D method.

 

BUT for now, you just don't need to spend a ton of money on a specific set of books for an adult D level study. When your oldest gets to the D level, you will have a FULL plate. At that point, you will want to hand her the actual TOG books and let her wander off to do her history for the week. Training 6th to 8th grade kids to plan for a once-a-week face-time meeting with mom over their history work is key. Especially if you have little ones to teach. Even in jr. high, skill subjects like reading, writing, and mathematics require a TON of face-time with the mom each day. Prepping for face time in history and literature requires time too. And you'll be teaching little ones who can accomplish VERY little without a momma at their elbow. At THAT point, you'll appreciate the TOG book that exactly matches your year-plan for your D kids. They can be trained to read, answer the questions, do the map work or projects, etc in order to prep for that face-time with you. They need to be able to do this with nary a glance from the momma. THAT's when you'll need THE books listed. It shortens your planning time and streamlines your homeschooling immensely.

 

But you don't need them now. A spine and the teacher's notes are fine. You just need to know that you're looking for those connections. Increase your awareness of the "flow" of history. Start to see things you hadn't seen before. Your library is an IMMENSE playground for you IF YOU HAVE THE TIME. (You don't have questions to answer that are tied to a specific book.) If you have extra time spend it there. I would seriously recommend the kid's section. I learned SO much when I began homeschooling by reading from the Juvenile Section. (The adult section was too narrow; too detailed. I wasn't ready. The big books made me sleepy.)

 

BUT you don't even need to explore the library at this point unless you have the time.

 

In summary:

1. Pick one R level Literature Book from each unit. Start there. These are hard. Don't get discouraged. You can do it. It took me YEARS to "get" the great books. I felt like SUCH a dolt for SO long. But I kept trying. The Tortoise wins the race here!!!! AND I figured it out BEFORE my oldest hit 9th grade. YEA! But don't get discouraged. Epic poetry is tough! Just keep approaching the on-ramp with enthusiasm. A side benefit: You'll have much empathy for your kids. EVERYTHING they are doing is daunting. Hsing can be very humbling for the kids AND the momma. Trying to figure out "epic poetry" reminded me of how "hard" school can be. So just keep trying! Even when I didn't get it, the process of trying taught me MUCH. And eventually the light came on. Woo-Hoo! :001_smile:

 

2. Read through the section of the DK/Kingfisher text that corresponds with the unit of history you are covering. (See the Yellow Overview pages in each week plan for dates and events. It will help you line up the units with your spine. The unit overview is VERY helpful too.) TRY to read these book(s) in chunks before you start the unit. Maybe your husband could watch the kids for three hours so you can wander off to JUST read. (Don't take your computer. :001_smile: JUST go read.) You'll get a sense of the forest - a bird's eye view - before you start to explore things in more detail week by week.

 

3. Read the Teacher's Notes for each week plan - in one sitting if you can too. Then re-read these each week as you go. You'll start to make connections with even the LG books as you read them with your kids.

 

4. IF you have the time, explore the juvenile section of your library for more books for you. This isn't necessary - just if you want more. And don't forget biographies. GREAT stuff. See the Yellow Overview Pages for folks to read about. Juvenile bios are great. Short and concise.

more...

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this amazing post! This whet's my appetite. I'm so anxious to get started, but I see there are so many things I can do to prepare.

[Janice in NJ]

Does this apply even if you don't have DE but print only? Right now I only have the print version, and I plan to keep it that way (1) because I like holding a book in my hands vs. reading on computer and (2) because once you get DE there's no resell option. So if I were to stay with print only would it make sense for me to purchase SOME of the books now, say the ones that are no longer in print?

You'll have to decide that for yourself, Jennifer. I noticed that your oldest is 5. I suspect that you are planning to start TOG in the fall. First grade? If you follow one year plan per year, she will be in fifth grade when you come back to TOG 1. Most fifth graders are not ready for D level work. They are still solidly UG students. And it's not really a matter of pushing them to advance them. UG kids are just sponges for reading and projects; great stuff! If you push them to work through the D program, it can be counter-productive. The D week is centered around reading, lots of questions, and more difficult writing assignments. It's great stuff, but the kids do spend less time reading and doing. UG students need to be reading a LOT, lot, lot in order to increase their speed. The right thing at the right time. Pushing them into D level in 5th grade can be very counter-productive. It's a different level of reading. Not necessarily just harder, but different. Very often it's NOT in your best interest to put a 5th grade child into D level work - even if they seem advanced. They can move forward in arithmetic. You can give them longer writing assignments with more sources. They can work through foreign language materials or advanced grammar programs. But switching them to a different kind of reading and thinking isn't always wise. Your child might be ready, but she might not. You really shouldn't count on it. And if you buy all of the D level books now, it might be hard not to assume that she is ready even if she isn't. ;)

 

She probably WILL be ready for D level by 6th grade; you'll be in TOG Year 2. She'll have three years to work at the D level. You don't need to do EVERY year plan at every level. You won't. That would be 16 years of school. :001_smile: TOG recognizes that. You keep cycling through the TOG years plans; the content keeps changing, and you rotate back to the ancients every four years. BUT you place each child at the level that matches her maximum return.

 

So it's possible that you might not actually use Y1 to teach a D student until your middle child is in 7th grade. That's eight years from now.

 

That's a long time. You'll have to make the call on what you want to do. I know that the urge to settle these decisions now feels strong. But I really want to caution you that you AND the hsing curriculum market are going to change drastically in eight years. Things change all the time. TOG changes. Your computer will change. If you feel really safe about your decision to buy all of your books now, and you have the money, then do it. BUT I would caution you to think about what that means. Are you going to buy all of the books for Y2 as well? Y3 and Y4? Some folks do it. But that is a huge investment. Especially when you haven't used the program yet.

 

I would recommend that you start and use what you have. Resist the voice that tells you that you are going to be "missing" something later. In the twelve years that I have been hsing, I have seen a steady explosion of options. There will be PLENTY to buy next year. PLENTY. There is no shortage of hsing products for sale this year, and there will be TONS more options next year. You can always turn money into books. Turning books back into money is much harder.

 

But I can't tell you what to do; you need to make that decision.

 

Another question. You said in a previous conversation not to purchase the Norton Anthology of Western Literature, because I may not want that edition when my kids get to high school level. However, if I don't purchase it, then it's impossible for me to know what literature works are included, since Amazon doesn't have a preview, table of contents, nada! Neither does Google Book Search..............

 

Norton Literature Anthologies regularly go out of print. They are college textbooks. As a result, old editions are usually available at half.com for cheap. IF the anthology has been replaced (Search Norton's website for info about volume numbers etc to locate the correct ISBN), the edition will be available for less than 1/2 of retail. Once it has been updated twice, you can usually locate a copy for under $5. I would recommend that you locate the edition TOG uses. Little tweaks are made every time they update; works move in and out of the editions. You'll want to one that matches your year-plan if you are using the print edition.

 

Ok, I just pulled out my TOG print edition and glanced through it; and it looks like when Norton is scheduled it tells you the title of the work you're reading, so that's good. But it doesn't say which version or translation.....does that matter? For example, Gilgamesh......can I just get whatever version is available at my library?

 

That's what I would do. Start with what's available. Search for something else when you get stumped. Have you read TWTM? Or Susan's other text The Well-Educated Mind? See if your library has it. In it she recommends accessible editions/translations of the Great Books. VERY helpful. TOG uses the edition offered in the anthology in order to cut down on cost. However, sometimes I use the WEM recs instead. Translation can make a difference.

 

Sorry to be vague. I'm not trying to be difficult. I really am trying to help. There are TONS of great paths. Even within TOG, there are tons of great paths. I do not use the program exactly as written. TOG was initially designed to be NON book-specific. That's when I discovered the program so that's how I learned to use it. So while I still primarily use the books listed, I have LOTS of college level materials in my house. Sometimes I use the TOG materials, but some times we move for weeks on end with my kids using entirely different materials to cover the same topics. But I've been at this for a while. I have a pretty good idea what I'm doing, and it's working. :001_smile:

 

So I hope my posts don't confuse you. Be encouraged. START with what you have. Resist the temptation to spend your time shopping and planning. Just start. :001_smile: That way hunting for the next thing will be a result of doing not planning. It's much easier to shop for the next brick in your path when you are standing on the last brick. It's truly harder to nail it down when you are glancing at where the next brick is supposed to go from WAY back at the starting line. The further you try to plan ahead, the farther you are trying to see. Things get fuzzy. Start self-educating and your path will be MUCH clearer. That's the point of the post over on the TOG boards. Stop shopping. Start with what you have. Tomorrow really will take care of itself.

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

Edited January 12, 2011 by Janice in NJ

[jewel7123]

I'll be starting TOG in the summer and my oldest will be 1st grade, yes. I know I have a long time until D and R levels, and I also know how things change. I just sold 5 TM's from another curriculum because I at one time thought I would be using it through high school, lol, but I realized it just didn't work for us and my goals.

 

I also don't mean that I'm going to go crazy and buy every book for every year plan I own. I don't have that kind of money laying around, lol! However, I DO think that if I see a book used and its a really great price and it matches my print edition, then yes, I should slowly start acquiring the books I need. The good thing about most of the books used in TOG is that they're great, and will be great reads even if I decide later on that the TOG curriculum itself doesn't work for me. When I just sold all my HOD manuals, I kept most of the books, because they are wonderful, and will be read eventually.

 

I JUST brought home The Well Educated Mind from the library yesterday! I've only read the first 2 chapters, but I'm definitely excited about learning HOW to read effectively.

 

Thanks again, Janice!

[Janice in NJ]

You're SO welcome. It sounds like you have a great library system.

Have fun! Home educating is such a grand, grand ride.

Janice

[TracyP]

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this amazing post! This whet's my appetite. I'm so anxious to get started, but I see there are so many things I can do to prepare.

 

:iagree:

 

Thank you Jennifer for your questions and Janice for your answers. I am so glad this went "public".:001_smile: You have no idea how timely this is as I struggle to prioritize.

 

Janice, your post was exactly what I needed right now. Your advice is always awesome. Your TOG post was motivation for me before I even found these forums. I'll stop but just know I could go on.:D

[Janice in NJ]

Tracy, thanks for the kind, kind words. It means a lot.

I hope your morning is filled with grace and peace.

Janice

[Georgiana Daniels]

Someone mentioned "out of the shrink wrap" on the TOG site. I can't find it anywhere. Is there a link?

[Janice in NJ]

http://www.lampstandbookshelf.com/ZC/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=100_101

[Georgiana Daniels]

Thank you, Janice! Not sure how I missed it.

[Guest]

It's important. Start there. You can reduce the amount of momma-education TIME spent on history by starting with a spine and your teacher's notes. You can acquire an immense knowledge of history by reading a spine (like the Kingfisher and/or the DK text). Then follow up by reading the TOG printed Teacher's Notes each week. Notice how the D level students are being asked to extract main ideas from their reading. As you move into units 2, 3, and 4, the students are being asked to draw connections from their reading. Look at the DK book.

 

Thank you for your post Janice :D. I am copy pasting it in a Word document to save. I would like to thank you mostly for the part I quoted above. I tried the first couple of weeks to get some of the D books from the library for myself but there was just no time to focus or have to worry about that as well, on top of everything else. So I gave up. I never though of just using a spine to do that :tongue_smilie:. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom.

[AngelBee]

Great info!

 

Taking notes....