spinoff after reading Rechelle's blog..books on atheism/agnosticism?

[Halcyon]

After looking through Rechelle Unplugged (thanks Remuda Mom for that link-so funny!), I watched her atheism video and my interest was piqued. I am a "seeker of truth" LOL and have read Karen Armstrong's book but was looking for other books about agnosticism/atheism that might be recommended by former Christians or lifelong atheists/humanists.

 

Thanks!

[Ester Maria]

Leszek Kolakowski: Religion (he also has a few other books dealing with religion - some of them quite humoristic - but this is the main one, approaching religion from several philosophical angles, in small digestible chunks using as starting points quotations drawn from all kinds of religious sources)

 

Steven Pinker: The Blank Slate - the Modern Denial of Human Nature (there's a part there dealing specifically with the problems of the existence of a "soul" from a biological perspective and stuff like that, though even if you take it as a whole, the book is a good read)

 

The Oxford Handbook on Philosophy of Religion :D Compact, cute, straight to the point. A must-read, though it's a slow read.

 

Eagleton (The Meaning of Life?), Emile Cioran and George Steiner (The Grammars of Creation?) each have an interesting thing or two marginally dealing with the phenomenon of religion.

 

Pro et Contra and Grand Inquisitor in Dostoevsky's Brothers Karamazov. :D

 

Those aren't books about atheism per se, but they're a pretty good insight into some trains of thought when it comes to science and religious phenomena which atheists usually go by. Of course, you also have the Dawkins / Harris / Hitchens crew, but I personally find them less fascinating than more "serious" readings.

[jplain]

There's a group of authors dubbed the four horsemen of the apocalypse: Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens.

 

Sam Harris' The End of Faith is the one I've enjoyed most so far. His second book, The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values, looks good, but I haven't read it yet.

 

The other three books often mentioned are Dawkins' The God Delusion, Hitchens' god is not Great, and Dennett's Breaking the Spell. Dawkins' is a scientist while Hitchens is a writer, and it shows in their writing. Neither pulls any punches (translation: they offend many). Dennett is an academic, and probably the most "polite" of all four.

 

And here's a video of the 4 of them chatting, all very civilized and thoughtful:

,

 

Oh, and I also enjoyed Dan Barker's Godless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists.

 

Barker, along with the other 4, has also engaged in debates, typically hosted on university campuses. Many of them can be found on YouTube.

 

And finally, here are links to TED talks:

Harris: Science Can Answer Moral Questions

Dawkins: Richard Dawkins on Militant Atheism

Dennett's TED page

Edited November 11, 2010 by jplain

[kalanamak]

It is old, but classic:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Christian-Essays-Religion-Related-Subjects/dp/0671203231

[elizabeth]

http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/Philosophy/Religion/?view=usa&ci=9780195173079

 

Philosophers without gods . Excellent and not intellectual lightweights. Unfortunately the best selling books on the subject are not the most robust thinkers and I am being kind. As an agnostic , liberal , neocon despising , and certainly on my best day only a loather of organized religion I must say that being resoundingly sympathetic to Hitchens' and Harris' positions does not negate the fact that a child could poke holes in their logic with ease. Far better to go with the academic big guns.

[Ester Maria]

http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/Philosophy/Religion/?view=usa&ci=9780195173079

 

Philosophers without gods .

This sounds good, I think I'll get it too. Thanks.

[freethinkermama]

There's a group of authors dubbed the four horsemen of the apocalypse: Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens.

 

Sam Harris' The End of Faith is the one I've enjoyed most so far. His second book, The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values, looks good, but I haven't read it yet.

 

The other three books often mentioned are Dawkins' The God Delusion, Hitchens' god is not Great, and Dennett's Breaking the Spell. Dawkins' is a scientist while Hitchens is a writer, and it shows in their writing. Neither pulls any punches (translation: they offend many). Dennett is an academic, and probably the most "polite" of all four.

 

And here's a video of the 4 of them chatting, all very civilized and thoughtful:

,

 

Oh, and I also enjoyed Dan Barker's Godless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists.

 

Barker, along with the other 4, has also engaged in debates, typically hosted on university campuses. Many of them can be found on YouTube.

 

And finally, here are links to TED talks:

Harris: Science Can Answer Moral Questions

Dawkins: Richard Dawkins on Militant Atheism

Dennett's TED page

 

 

I started with the "horsemen" when first taking steps away from the faith. I really like Dan's stuff, too. As a missionary who gave up the faith, it's very interesting, and meaningful to me to see other career Christians who stopped believing.

 

I haven't seen those TED talks, but I'm going to go for them now.

Thanks for posting, all!

[LibraryLover]

I loved the book, More Jesus, Less Religion. http://www.amazon.com/More-Jesus-Less-Religion-Relationship/dp/0307458822

 

Not all of those books she held up are about not believing in God, in fact. She was holding an excellent book *about* religion. I foud A History of God so good, I bought a copy after I read it from the library. I use it frequently to look up information.

http://www.amazon.com/History-God-000-Year-Judaism-Christianity/dp/0345384563

Edited November 12, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Halcyon]

There's a group of authors dubbed the four horsemen of the apocalypse: Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens.

 

 

Ah, yes! I remember reading about this in a book review in the NYT a while back but I couldn't remember all their names--thank you so much!

[Halcyon]

There's a group of authors dubbed the four horsemen of the apocalypse: Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens.

 

Sam Harris' The End of Faith is the one I've enjoyed most so far. His second book, The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values, looks good, but I haven't read it yet.

 

The other three books often mentioned are Dawkins' The God Delusion, Hitchens' god is not Great, and Dennett's Breaking the Spell. Dawkins' is a scientist while Hitchens is a writer, and it shows in their writing. Neither pulls any punches (translation: they offend many). Dennett is an academic, and probably the most "polite" of all four.

 

And here's a video of the 4 of them chatting, all very civilized and thoughtful:

,

 

Oh, and I also enjoyed Dan Barker's Godless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists.

 

Barker, along with the other 4, has also engaged in debates, typically hosted on university campuses. Many of them can be found on YouTube.

 

And finally, here are links to TED talks:

Harris: Science Can Answer Moral Questions

Dawkins: Richard Dawkins on Militant Atheism

Dennett's TED page

 

 

The God Delusion is one I've been meaning to read, but it totally slipped my mind. Thank you.

[Halcyon]

Not all of those books she held up are about not believing in God, in fact. She was holding an excellent book *about* religion. I foud A History of God so good, I bought a copy after I read it from the library. I use it frequently to look up information.

http://www.amazon.com/History-God-000-Year-Judaism-Christianity/dp/0345384563

 

 

Yes, I've read that one, and thought it was great too.

[Halcyon]

As an agnostic , liberal , neocon despising , and certainly on my best day only a loather of organized religion.....

 

I would probably get along with you quite well! :) Thank you for the book rec.

[jplain]

Philosophers without gods. Excellent and not intellectual lightweights.

Thanks for the recommendation! Interlibrary loan actually has this one.

(Books on atheism often end up "lost" from the libraries in my state. Or perhaps worse, they are "helpfully" annotated. :glare:)

[elizabeth]

Thanks for the recommendation! Interlibrary loan actually has this one.

(Books on atheism often end up "lost" from the libraries in my state. Or perhaps worse, they are "helpfully" annotated. :glare:)

Yikes. You would think a group so dedicated to the rights of ownership and unrestricted capitalism would avoid defacing property paid for by their tax dollars...morons.

[Halcyon]

Okay, I'm reading the Christopher Hitchen's book now, and I thought I was well-informed about how religion influences world events, particularly wars, murder and genocide...I was wrong. I didn't know squat. It's quite appalling.

[KidsHappen]

Dawkins also has a new book out titled The Greatest Show on Earth: http://www.amazon.com/Greatest-Show-Earth-Evidence-Evolution/dp/1416594795/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1289882613&sr=8-1

[Audrey]

Another one that might pique your interest is Tom Harpur's The Pagan Christ. All of christianity is hinged on the singularity of Christ, yet Harpur does an excellent job of debunking the uniqueness of that myth, instead giving evidence of many cultures pre-dating Christ that have the same myth or a derivation thereof. I liked it because it correlates so many myths and doesn't tell you what to think about any of them. It just lets you think on it for yourself.

 

ETA: If Karen Armstrong interests you, she has a new book coming out in December called Twelve Steps to a Compassionate Life. I just ordered this for my library. The pre-publication blurb said: Following on the success of her bestseller "The Case for God", Karen Armstrong explains how to practice the religion of compassion that her last books have preached.

Edited November 16, 2010 by Audrey

[amey311]

I read Losing My Religion by William Lobdell. It's largely about him struggling to keep his faith while covering the religious beat during the beginnings of the Catholic Priest abuse scandal. So, that's largely the bulk of the book (the scandal), but he ends up realizing how hard he's fighting to believe when really he doesn't. That resounded with me a bit - the idea of really WANTING to believe because in some ways life would be so much simpler if I did, and yet knowing that deep down, I just don't. It's hard to reconcile.

[dangermom]

[/i]All of christianity is hinged on the singularity of Christ, yet Harpur does an excellent job of debunking the uniqueness of that myth, instead giving evidence of many cultures pre-dating Christ that have the same myth or a derivation thereof.

It is? C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien would disagree, and the early Christians saw it as a good thing. That is, there have been many Christians throughout history who know all about that, and see Christ as the 'true myth' foreshadowed in many cultures. (I just want to be accurate, you can think as you like of course.)

 

 

From the :

Contemporary to Rudolf Bultmann's interpretation of the New Testament narrative as valid theology in story form, Christian mythologists such as C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien understood the narrative of Christ's sacrificial death of atonement for humanity as a "true myth" with the special property that it had been enacted historically in time and space. Lewis wrote, "The story of Christ is simply a true myth: a myth working on us in the same way as the others, but with this tremendous difference that it really happened."[57] In this view, mythological predecessors of the "drama" of Christ were inspired glimpses of divine truth that would only become fully manifest at an appointed moment and place, viz. in Roman Judea. For these authors, the mythological elements in the story of the Christ do not undermine but rather enhance the transcendental truth of the gospel.

[Mercy_Me]

There's a group of authors dubbed the four horsemen of the apocalypse: Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens.

 

Sam Harris' The End of Faith is the one I've enjoyed most so far. His second book, The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values, looks good, but I haven't read it yet.

 

The other three books often mentioned are Dawkins' The God Delusion, Hitchens' god is not Great, and Dennett's Breaking the Spell. Dawkins' is a scientist while Hitchens is a writer, and it shows in their writing. Neither pulls any punches (translation: they offend many). Dennett is an academic, and probably the most "polite" of all four.

 

And here's a video of the 4 of them chatting, all very civilized and thoughtful:

,

 

Oh, and I also enjoyed Dan Barker's Godless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists.

 

Barker, along with the other 4, has also engaged in debates, typically hosted on university campuses. Many of them can be found on YouTube.

 

And finally, here are links to TED talks:

Harris: Science Can Answer Moral Questions

Dawkins: Richard Dawkins on Militant Atheism

Dennett's TED page

 

 

I highly recommend everything she has linked here. Dawkins and Hitchens were the two that really helped me fall off the fence and right into heathenistic unbelief. :P Sam Harris' Letter to a Christian Nation is a MUST read. It's an easy read; I must have read it 20 times by now. For learning about biblical errors Bart Ehrman's books are not to be missed. Dan Barker co-runs an organization called Freedom From Religion Foundation; it is nice for those that are seeking "like-minds"

[freethinkermama]

It is? C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien would disagree, and the early Christians saw it as a good thing. That is, there have been many Christians throughout history who know all about that, and see Christ as the 'true myth' foreshadowed in many cultures. (I just want to be accurate, you can think as you like of course.)

 

 

From the :

 

I'm afraid I can't see the place from which you got this tidbit, but I can see the little red x-box there. I might try to take it and google it and read the source material.

 

There are two way to look at this:

 

1. The story of Jesus is like hundreds of myths before his, indicating that his story is the true one.

 

2. The story of Jesus is like hundreds of myths before him, indicating that his is just another myth like the predecessors.

 

I think it's the second.

[asta]

Another one that might pique your interest is Tom Harpur's The Pagan Christ. All of christianity is hinged on the singularity of Christ, yet Harpur does an excellent job of debunking the uniqueness of that myth, instead giving evidence of many cultures pre-dating Christ that have the same myth or a derivation thereof. I liked it because it correlates so many myths and doesn't tell you what to think about any of them. It just lets you think on it for yourself.

 

This book looks interesting. I will check it out.

 

----------

 

As for Sam Harris (who writes tons of columns on myriad subjects, in case anyone is interested), I had a discussion with a psychiatrist once upon a time regarding "The End of Faith" in regards to religiosity. The clinical kind, I mean. Apparently, as extreme religiosity is often seen in mania and psychosis, many psychiatrists read the book to "learn the basis behind their patients 'reasoning'."

 

I found that interesting. And of course immediately bought the book.

 

 

Back to the thread.......

 

 

a

Edited November 16, 2010 by asta

[Halcyon]

Another one that might pique your interest is Tom Harpur's The Pagan Christ. All of christianity is hinged on the singularity of Christ, yet Harpur does an excellent job of debunking the uniqueness of that myth, instead giving evidence of many cultures pre-dating Christ that have the same myth or a derivation thereof. I liked it because it correlates so many myths and doesn't tell you what to think about any of them. It just lets you think on it for yourself.

 

ETA: If Karen Armstrong interests you, she has a new book coming out in December called Twelve Steps to a Compassionate Life. I just ordered this for my library. The pre-publication blurb said: Following on the success of her bestseller "The Case for God", Karen Armstrong explains how to practice the religion of compassion that her last books have preached.

 

 

Thank you!