What can you tell me about the branches of the military? Ds thinking of joining.

[Chris in VA]

Aaaand the saga continues...

I swear, I should submit a script to Studio City for a new soap opera--As the Rectory Turns...;)

 

Well, in a nutshell, ds19 is not maintaining sobriety. He is attending CC, but I never see him study. He's working about 4 nights a week as a waiter, making a little money, but not much. After spending all day gone yesterday (had to go to court to pay a fine for getting into an accident), he wandered in around 11:30p. He said he is considering joining the army.

 

Half of me wants to :001_rolleyes:

and the other half thinks it might be a good idea.

 

He hates his country, thinks the government is corrupt, has a big anarchy symbol tattooed on his arm (homemade)...Not your el-primo candiate. But he thinks he needs the structure (does better with it), wants to leave this area and our home, needs a better job--he's been talking to some people and has this plan (not really well-formed, but a plan, unless he's pulling our leg).

 

Soooo,,

 

 

I know very little about the branches of the military, tho we live next door to Ft. Belvoir and have an assortment of active and retired military personnel at our church (even a general!).

 

He is afraid of drowning, so I don't think the Navy would be a good idea.

 

What can you tell me about the military? Anything, positive, negative, etc is fine. Just fill up this thread. Thanks.

[mommaduck]

Well, two things first in dealing with his current issues:

pro: many young men do straighten out in the military.

con: drinking is big in the military.

[Mom in High Heels]

What specifically do you want to know? My dad is retired Navy, so I grew up a Navy brat and a year after James Bond and I got married, he joined the Army, so I've been an Army spouse for 15 years.

The Army can be very good in many ways. JB loves his job, loves the structure, and we love the stability of a paycheck and health coverage. JB will stay and retire for probably another 10-15 years and will have an excellent retirement check for the rest of his life. It offers many good opportunities for training and advancement. Your son can earn his college degree and even a master's or PhD if he desires.

There are of course many down sides. He'll start off as low man on the totem pole and will be yelled at. A lot. He'll have to do crappy, menial jobs and basically do whatever he's told, whether he likes it or not. His life will be strongly regimented for quite possibly the first year (depending on what job he takes and how long his AIT-special job training-is). He'll have little to no say on where he goes, and of course there's always the possibility of deployment.

Like I said, James Bond loves what he does and I can't imagine our lives had he not joined. The military has offered us many wonderful opportunities to travel and see things we'd never have been able to see before. In this economy we don't have to worry about JB losing his job. We don't have to worry about paying doctor bills if we get sick (having Indy at the hospital cost us $0) and we don't have to worry about getting a paycheck.

It's not always an easy life, and your son will have to put up with a lot of crap, and can't just quit if he doesn't like it, but in the end, it might be a good thing for him. Best of luck to you both!

[GWOB]

I was in the Navy for about 3 1/2 years. Dh was in for 10 years.

 

You already said your ds was afraid of drowning and the Navy was likely out, but I knew many Sailors who couldn't swim. It really isn't that big a deal.

 

The military in general, especially if he enlisted, will provide that structure. Dh was on a pretty stinky path before joing. He had some of the same issues your ds has. Joining the Navy (along with meeting me of course;)) really helped him to focus on the future. For me, it was an escape from controlling, abusive parents.

 

Drinking is big in the Navy. While they have been cracking down on excessive and underage drinking, when it's time to party, they party hard. That could be a problem. However, the Navy will not tolerate showing up to work drunk or hungover.

 

As far as future jobs outside the military, I honestly believe Navy and Air Force provide the best training. The Navy has electricians, machinists, computer people, fabulous corpman (nurses), aircraft mechanics, legalmen, etc.

 

Now, my experience is limited to the Navy, and really only a small part of the Navy since dh and I were nukes. We mostly dealt with other nukes (people in the nuclear power program). The real Navy may be a little different.

 

Hopefully this is coherent. Allergies meds limit my ability to formulate logical arguments.

[Chris in VA]

Oh, my heart is unsettled at this possible choice!

 

I think I'm wondering what the differences are between the culture of each branch. That's so wide and unspecific a question, IDK if it's even answerable!

 

My stereotypes of the military (and these are so laughable, and I'm not sure where I got these impressions! lol) are:

 

that the Marines are super-together folks who do the highest level of intelligence and are super-fighters with tons of pride and are very elite

 

that the Army is made up of the grunts and the very basic level guys who are sort of the meat and potatoes of the military

 

that the Navy is a motley crew that can either be pretty grunty or really elite--Lots of drinking, carousing, lots of good ol' boys, but more accepting of women

 

that the Air Force is smart, detached guys (and women) who are very technical, have great eyesight, and have a pretty low rate of death in combat.

 

See? I'm pretty stupid when it comes to all of this! And I KNOW it's just stereotypes, so please don't take offense at any of it! My dad is Navy from the Korean War, and my grandpa was English Merchant Marine (a little different).

 

Oh, and I forgot Coast Guard--I think of Baywatch and policemen when I think of Coast Guard.

 

So, PLEASE, enlighten me.:D

[mommaduck]

LOL, you pretty much pinged the stereotypes, but they are JUST stereotypes. There are a little bit of everything in each branch. Marines have it the toughest, just making it through boot camp (and I wouldn't call them the "super intelligent"...not that they aren't intelligent, but they are just as much as the rest. We considered them more of the "super egos").

[Mom in High Heels]

Bwahahaha! Your stereotypes are funny. I came back to say that James Bond is in Intel and his job is highly technical and he will have great job opportunities when he gets out. Your son should look into a career in intel. They often have nice bonuses for re-enlistment (JB got several good ones before going officer, where he no longer gets bonuses, but has better pay). It's also a job field that is very much in demand.

To be honest, every branch has pretty much everything job wise. The Army, Navy and Air Force all have pilots, medics, chaplains, intel, supply, logistics, cooks, etc. Really, everything you can think of. They do sometimes support each other, but they all are pretty much self contained units.

[MamaT]

I sent you a pm.

[Mary in VA]

Chris,

I'm retired AF active/reserve. I PM'd you.

Mary

[anneofalamo]

his tattoo might keep him out of some of the branches of service, depending on where it is located.

 

I agree the military is a wild time...drinking and binge drinking are a normal thing.

I spent 6 years in Air Force and it was uhm extreme. But it is a job, and if he pulls an attitude, he will find himself in the brig, the jail.

 

My heart goes out to you momma!

 

Your stereo types made me smile...and as an Air Force woman, with pretty good eyesight! lol

 

His AsVab scores ( the test to get in, will really be the deciding factor for what job), and no MATTER what, get a guarantee job. Don't go open? Or you will be folding parachutes or driving a tank. There are opportunities in the military, but you have to go after them, none fall in a lap.

[asta]

(gently)

 

He's not likely to get in any time soon.

 

The services are full. They are exceeding their reenlistment and recruiting targets due in no small part to the collapse of the economy. They can afford to be very selective, and are doing so. They have people with advanced degrees and spotless records coming in as E-3s.

 

Things that were glossed over in the "lean" recruiting times (visible tats, arrests for non-felonies, etc.) aren't being "waivered" any longer.

 

 

a

[Mary in VA]

nt

[Chris in VA]

(gently)

 

He's not likely to get in any time soon.

 

The services are full. They are exceeding their reenlistment and recruiting targets due in no small part to the collapse of the economy. They can afford to be very selective, and are doing so. They have people with advanced degrees and spotless records coming in as E-3s.

 

Things that were glossed over in the "lean" recruiting times (visible tats, arrests for non-felonies, etc.) aren't being "waivered" any longer.

 

 

a

 

That's actually good news, of a sort, to me, Asta. I appreciate your gentleness.

FWIW, his tats are on his upper arm (big A in circle, about 2.5 inches, I'd guess), his hand (3 dots for mi vida loca--not gang, but could be implied that way) and his foot (heartogram--not as visible but still there). He has not been convicted as an adult, and his conviction as a juv was not for drugs.

He's smart, I'll give him that, so a test would be no problem. But he isn't wise.

 

To know he wouldn't be accepted, even in the military ("even in"--I don't mean that, it's just another stereotype--sorry), would crush him. Maybe that's what he needs.

 

I just don't know. It's not mine to figure out anymore. I just wish he could get the structure he needs, and see the way the addiction is robbing him blind. We've tried so much--I feel guilty that I can't conquer my own eating disorder, and that I can't give him what he needs at home (and that is making me upset). I just wish I could help, and I CAN'T. I want to wail, and just...just curl up in a ball or something. I've cried out so many times, and I know God is faithful, and I know Peter is his, but it just. hurts. The thought of him going to jail because he mouthed off to some officer or killing himself or thinking of himself as horrible and then doing something stupid--it's just too much. I can't see him becoming able to kill someone or be a cause of someone's (anyone's) death--I think his heart is still tender, and he couldn't be a good military person. He would sublimate the guilt he'd feel. It would destroy him.

 

Whew--sorry for the vent.

[Mrs Mungo]

His AsVab scores ( the test to get in, will really be the deciding factor for what job), and no MATTER what, get a guarantee job. Don't go open? Or you will be folding parachutes or driving a tank. There are opportunities in the military, but you have to go after them, none fall in a lap.

 

I strongly agree with this. There are great jobs in the military (all branches) that will give you great training, higher level education and wonderful future job opportunities. However, not everyone gets them. You have to test high on the ASVAB. You have to be high speed. You have to have ambition. You have to go beyond what's expected of you. You have to stay out of trouble. Just like any other career field.

 

(gently)

 

He's not likely to get in any time soon.

 

The services are full. They are exceeding their reenlistment and recruiting targets due in no small part to the collapse of the economy. They can afford to be very selective, and are doing so. They have people with advanced degrees and spotless records coming in as E-3s.

 

Things that were glossed over in the "lean" recruiting times (visible tats, arrests for non-felonies, etc.) aren't being "waivered" any longer.

 

This is a really good point.

 

That's actually good news, of a sort, to me, Asta. I appreciate your gentleness.

FWIW, his tats are on his upper arm (big A in circle, about 2.5 inches, I'd guess), his hand (3 dots for mi vida loca--not gang, but could be implied that way) and his foot (heartogram--not as visible but still there). He has not been convicted as an adult, and his conviction as a juv was not for drugs.

 

The tattoos could be a problem if they could be interpreted as extremist or gang related. You no longer have to have a waiver for tattoos on your hand for the Army, as long as they aren't racist, sexist or extremist. The Marines is the branch that is most strict about size and location of tatoos.

 

I just don't know. It's not mine to figure out anymore. I just wish he could get the structure he needs, and see the way the addiction is robbing him blind. We've tried so much--I feel guilty that I can't conquer my own eating disorder, and that I can't give him what he needs at home (and that is making me upset). I just wish I could help, and I CAN'T. I want to wail, and just...just curl up in a ball or something. I've cried out so many times, and I know God is faithful, and I know Peter is his, but it just. hurts. The thought of him going to jail because he mouthed off to some officer or killing himself or thinking of himself as horrible and then doing something stupid--it's just too much.

He would not go to jail for mouthing off to someone. But, he would have to learn discipline because you cannot just mouth off. It would be bad, bad, bad. If you want to succeed in the military, go to schools to advance, get into good units, get into a good job, etc. You have to be like water and follow the path of least resistance.

 

The military has great drug and alcohol counseling programs, but it's important that he's ready to avail himself of them to help keep himself on track. It's true that there is a pretty big partying element in the military, especially among junior soldiers in the barracks. In the upper ranks drinking is the norm, but drinking to excess is not.

 

I can't see him becoming able to kill someone or be a cause of someone's (anyone's) death--I think his heart is still tender, and he couldn't be a good military person. He would sublimate the guilt he'd feel. It would destroy him.

Killing someone in cold blood and killing someone who is trying to kill you and your buddies are very different things. It's how soldiers have always managed to do their jobs.

[Kim in Appalachia]

I know nothing about the services. I just wanted to encourage you to encourage your son. A dear friend's son did this. He was having lots of issues (much like your ds) and decided to go into the service. He believed the structure would help him and it did. Because he wanted it to help and believed it would help, it has been great for him.

[K-FL]

Check Military.com for some basic info. It even has a "compare the branches" table. 1st off I'd have him get an ASVAB prep book.

 

As to the Navy, it's the largest branch of the service. The Navy's flight unit is larger than the USAF (so I've heard.) I even knew a Coast Guard officer that had never stepped on a ship! He was in supply so was always on land.

[Chris in VA]

I strongly agree with this. There are great jobs in the military (all branches) that will give you great training, higher level education and wonderful future job opportunities. However, not everyone gets them. You have to test high on the ASVAB. You have to be high speed. You have to have ambition. You have to go beyond what's expected of you. You have to stay out of trouble. Just like any other career field.

 

 

 

This is a really good point.

 

 

 

The tattoos could be a problem if they could be interpreted as extremist or gang related. You no longer have to have a waiver for tattoos on your hand for the Army, as long as they aren't racist, sexist or extremist. The Marines is the branch that is most strict about size and location of tatoos.

 

He would not go to jail for mouthing off to someone. But, he would have to learn discipline because you cannot just mouth off. It would be bad, bad, bad. If you want to succeed in the military, go to schools to advance, get into good units, get into a good job, etc. You have to be like water and follow the path of least resistance.

 

The military has great drug and alcohol counseling programs, but it's important that he's ready to avail himself of them to help keep himself on track. It's true that there is a pretty big partying element in the military, especially among junior soldiers in the barracks. In the upper ranks drinking is the norm, but drinking to excess is not.

 

Killing someone in cold blood and killing someone who is trying to kill you and your buddies are very different things. It's how soldiers have always managed to do their jobs.

 

Thanks so much for the insights! And yes, I totally get it about the killing thing. I meant absolutely no disrespect or to imply that soldiers can't have tender hearts, or anything like that.

[Mergath]

I'm certainly no expert, but I can tell you about my experience.

 

I was in the Army for around six months (discharged for medical reasons.) And I wouldn't recommend it. They tend to offer you one thing, then turn around and tell you, "Too bad, we lied and you're doing this." And I wasn't allowed to have the job I wanted because my test scores were too high. :glare: The training is pretty crappy compared to the other branches, in my experience, and members of the other branches are treated with much more respect (at least at the DLI).

 

We used to give the people in the AF a lot of crap ("Oh my god, an airmen is running, something must be about to explode!") but if I had it to do over, I'd join either the AF or the Navy. Marines are too crazy for me. :P

[Chris in VA]

I'm certainly no expert, but I can tell you about my experience.

 

I was in the Army for around six months (discharged for medical reasons.) And I wouldn't recommend it. They tend to offer you one thing, then turn around and tell you, "Too bad, we lied and you're doing this."

 

I've heard this from a former brother in law. Hmmm. Sorry your experience was carpy.

[Cera]

Not only could the tattoos be a problem but all of the services require a passing drug test.

[Chris in VA]

Yeah, he'd be clean for the intake, I'm sure. He said, after he got taken off probation, that he'd never pee in a cup for anyone, ever again.

Maybe he's finding he needs outside pressure to remain clean. Right now, he doesn't want to.

So I guess he knows something has to change.

 

Ick.

[Punchie]

They tend to offer you one thing, then turn around and tell you, "Too bad, we lied and you're doing this." /

 

This can happen w/any branch. Any military person (non-recruiter) will tell you that you need to get everything in writing. Recruiters don't necessarily lie, but they don't always tell you the straight truth either.

 

I would like it if our children went in the military, preferrably the AF. My experience is w/the AF (as a wife) and the Marines (I enlisted). The AF treats their ppl and families a heck of a lot better than the Marines do.

[Mrs Mungo]

Chris, I didn't take offense or anything. I think a lot of people are surprised what they can and can't do when your life is on the line.

 

Check Military.com for some basic info. It even has a "compare the branches" table. 1st off I'd have him get an ASVAB prep book.

 

As to the Navy, it's the largest branch of the service. The Navy's flight unit is larger than the USAF (so I've heard.) I even knew a Coast Guard officer that had never stepped on a ship! He was in supply so was always on land.

 

Actually the Army is the biggest branch. There are around (all these numbers are "around," I'm rounding) 550,000 in the active Army; 403,000 in the Army National Guard; 205,000 in the Army reserves; 323,000 in the Air Force; 67,000 AF reserves; 107,000 Air National Guard; 332,000 in the Navy; 67,000 in the Navy reserves; 203,000 in the active Marines; 40,000 Marines reserve; Coast Guard 41,000; 11,000 in the Coast Guard reserves.

 

This can happen w/any branch. Any military person (non-recruiter) will tell you that you need to get everything in writing. Recruiters don't necessarily lie, but they don't always tell you the straight truth either.

 

I think the problem is often more that recruiters don't know what civilians don't know. I've had family members who talked to recruiters and when they report back to me they say "oh, the recruiter said this or that," and I explain what that means. They make a lot of extrapolations because they don't really know the lingo. I don't think the recruiters are always doing it on purpose.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

It would seem to be a poor choice to join a specialty that depends on higher level clearances when one is not able to exercise the self control to not drink. Not only would it seem that he would be at risk of losing his clearance and getting a poorly characterized discarge, but he would be at higher risk for not properly respecting the responsibilities of his job.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

What can you tell me about the military? Anything, positive, negative, etc is fine. Just fill up this thread. Thanks.

 

I was 6 years active Navy, 7 reserve. DH is almost at 20. Both of us were in military programs in college.

 

The military is the sort of place that crystalizes the personality potential that you already have. If you are a go getter and a hustler (as in someone who is willing to hustle, not in a negative sense) then there are incredible opportunities. If you already have an addiction prone personality, then there are plenty of potential pitfalls.

 

You must be obedient and respectful of your superiors (even when you think they are fools or jerks). You will work longer hours and harder than you can probably imagine. (Dh works 13+ hour days 6+ days a week. His hours have gotten longer and harder the more senior he's become, not easier. In fact he just left in the middle of a tropical storm with 30 knot winds to check on his watch and take them dinner in case they get stuck since their reliefs may not be allowed on base for several hours.)

 

We have been around the world and seen and done incredible things. And we have had incredible low points. Working for the occasional bad boss that you can't just quit and get away from. Having friends killed. Long periods of separation.

 

I am personally very pleased with the total impact that military service has had on our family. But it hasn't been without personal cost. I have also seen other families where they were very unhappy with being in the military. As a division officer, I went to non-judicial punishment with many sailors who were in trouble for failing to come to work, alcohol incidents, missing ship's movement or telling off their senior petty officers (NCOs). Some of them had high level skills like high tech welding training, but flushed their promotions and careers because they had poor anger management or couldn't control their drinking.

 

In short the military can be the best thing that ever happened to you or it can be one of the worst choices you've ever made. Depends on the person and their attitude.

 

What I wouldn't expect is for the military to shake someone out of a drinking problem that they didn't want to be rid of (or hadn't admitted was a problem).

[mommytobees]

Yeah, he'd be clean for the intake, I'm sure. He said, after he got taken off probation, that he'd never pee in a cup for anyone, ever again.

Maybe he's finding he needs outside pressure to remain clean. Right now, he doesn't want to.

So I guess he knows something has to change.

 

Ick.

 

HAHahahahahahahahahahhaha!!!

 

SOrry. He wants to consider the military! Tell him to _expect_ to pee in a cup 1-2 times a year. Minimum.

 

There have been years when my dh has been "randomly" hit for drug testing every other month.

 

I swear to you, my dh has peed in a cup more times than I have, and I"ve been pregnant many times! AND, my dh has never done drugs.

 

Kris, snickering

[Chris in VA]

So, can you guys tell me about enlisting as a high school grad? What are the minimum times he could serve? I mean, do you sign up for two years? 4? Does it matter which branch?

I've looked on military.com but it's incredibly slow to load, and rather vague in spots.

[GWOB]

So, can you guys tell me about enlisting as a high school grad? What are the minimum times he could serve? I mean, do you sign up for two years? 4? Does it matter which branch?

I've looked on military.com but it's incredibly slow to load, and rather vague in spots.

 

I left for boot camp 3 days after high school graduation. My enlistment was for 6 years due to the field I entered (Navy nuclear program). Most enlistments are for 4 years. A friend's daughter recently enlisted for a 2-year active duty term, but she has 2 or 4 years to do after that in the National Guard.

 

Sebastian gave a great explanation. It is what you make of it. If your son is serious about turning his life around, the military is a great opportunity. My dh went in with no direction in life. In 10 years he made Chief (E-7), earned a BS in Nuclear Engineering from a reputable university (Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute), and obtained valuable experience. This would have never happened without the Navy.

 

Finally, whatever branch he decides, GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING! Recruiters have a hard job. Sometimes they makes promises they just cannot keep. Make sure he has a specific job/rate/whatever before he signs anything.

 

Good luck to you and your ds.

[ondreeuh]

Well, two things first in dealing with his current issues:

pro: many young men do straighten out in the military.

con: drinking is big in the military.

 

My dh is a sergeant in the national guard and regularly has to counsel the young privates about their alcohol use. The random urine tests are good for encouraging soldiers to stay off drugs, but there is a definite culture of alcohol. Of course, basic training requires them to abstain for the duration, and the military will force him to get treatment (and pay for it) if they discover he has a problem.

 

Dh said the tattoo alone may make him ineligible. There are strict guidelines about tattoos. He should check with a recruiter first on that.

 

Dh says air force and navy give you career paths. If he doesn't know what he wants to do, he should get a job in the military that gives him a skill set (mechanic, computer tech, etc.) that will translate to the civilian world.

[BikeBookBread]

Haven't read through the thread. DH is AF. He is more of a hooah kind of guy, though, and the AF is the least hooah of the branches. I'm not being disparaging,as the AF is kind of proud of this, but the AF is the most "weenie" of the branches, meaning the most science-focused.

 

DH is in the legal field, and he sees lots of bad stuff (drugs, criminal behavior, etc...). He has told me that, from his discussions with legal types in other branches, the AF has the fewest "problem children" of all of the branches. I'll leave it at that.

[Chris in VA]

BBB, this is actually my impression of the AF--not in a negative way at all, just what my very limited exposure has left me. Interesting.

 

As far as the tats, he is willing to get them taken off. That alone would be worth it.:D (Not a condemnation of tats--just that his are homemade and kinda ugly, and I don't like the possible gang connotation of the 3 dots.)

[jenn&charles]

I would recommend you have your son (or you) talk to a recruiter.

My son is 17 and just enlisted successfully in the army. He's going off to bootcamp at the beginning of January and lucked out/got a good job (that he really wanted) based on his test scores (85 on the ASVAB, etc.). He did have to jump through some hoops because he was homeschooled, but it all worked out fine.

 

Right now the other branches are taking FOREVER to process new recruits. It's a 6 month waiting period to even start processing for the AF (at least in my area). I was also told the Navy is taking forever to get recruits shipped out. The marines were never on our radar because my son said they are a bit too "hard core".

It's my impression after going through all of this and talking to the recruiters, etc. that right now all of the branches are being very selective. Bear saw a some men (and a young woman) with tears in their eyes at MEPS when they didn't make the cut.

Anyway, I would have your son talk to a recruiter, but from my small bit of understanding the fact that he has the type of tattoo he has (and the attitude about the gov. to match) and a drinking problem may not bode well. Perhaps his interest will be enough to get him to clean things up though and he could be a candidate in the future, if they say he isn't now.

 

Our experience with the army has been great so far. Bear lucked out and got a terrific, very hands-on recruiter. He came back from MEPS with a great attitude and a lot more of a grown-up demeanor with a healthy dose of respect thrown in. ;) I've already seen a very positive change in him and he seems to be thriving with the structure.

I think the military is great, IF a person is willing to take orders and do so with a good attitude, etc. I think it's a mind-set. You either choose to have it or not.

Anyway, good luck in looking into all of this. It wasn't too long ago that I had no clue about any of this and now my son is leaving in just a couple of months!

Edited October 30, 2010 by jenn&charles