Socialization vs socializing

[Garga]

Definition on the web:

Socialization is a term used by sociologists, social psychologists, anthropologists, politicians and educationalists to refer to the process of inheriting norms, customs and ideologies.

 

 

With the above definition in mind, when people say, "What about socialization?" do you think they're asking, "Do you hang out with people?" or do you think they're asking, "Are your kids going to be growing up with a different set of norms, customs and ideologies from everyone else, and will that cause them problems later in life?"

[VBoulden]

I think it could be the later. And if that is their concern, the way you asked your question helps me see why they'd feel compelled to ask. My kids will probably be "off beat" because they never had to suffer through the school system. Oh well. In reference to home school, I like to say, "I want something better than normal for my kids." Although, every now and then, in certain situations, I think it might be good for my daughter knew what school is like, just so she'd know not to do certain things in public, etc. Maybe when she is older... :001_smile:

[Pretty in Pink]

I think they nearly always mean, "Are your kids getting a chance to hang out with their same-age peers on a regular basis?"

[2_girls_mommy]

I truly think the people that are asking me are referring to the 2nd def. Mostly teachers and educated people are the ones bringing it up to me. They truly believe that the different set of norms is a bad thing.

[keptwoman]

I think that they are thinking #1 conciously, with a side helping of "will they be freaks (i.e #2)

[Garga]

I think they nearly always mean, "Are your kids getting a chance to hang out with their same-age peers on a regular basis?"

 

 

Yeah...but I'm not so sure about that. I think they know that there's more to hanging out with people than just...hanging out with people, but it's hard to articulate.

 

I know that my mother and mil both meant the official definition of "socialization" when they asked me. They didn't articulate it well, but that's what they meant.

 

Socialization and socialize are two different words. If they wonder if the kids socialize, they'd say, "What about socializing?" Asking, "What about socialization?" is a different word and a different question.

 

So, when we give a flip answer, "Hey! We have lots of playdates!" that doesn't really answer the question of the norms, values, etc, that are taught in schools. "School" is a culture entirely on its own. There's a whole set of customs and expectations and unspoken rules, etc, that home schooled kids will never know about. (Personally, I'm glad about that!)

[mcconnellboys]

No, I don't think most of them have any idea what "socialization" really means.

 

One's norms, customs, and ideologies customarily come from the family in which they grow up. Now, our government might want to change that, such that our children grow up with different norms, etc. than our own, but I don't think they have a right to do that....

[mcconnellboys]

Well, if educators were asking me, then I guess I'd have to say that I don't want my children indoctrinated in "school culture".....

[radiobrain]

Most people think it is the same thing. Seriously, I don't think they even think it is one or another, I believe they smoosh them together. That is because they have been *socialized*. :D (I need some jazz hands in there, too).

 

However, I think when asking the question, they are really envisioning the whole HOME school stereotype of being trapped in the house all day only interacting with family.

 

Blah.

[lionfamily1999]

I'm pretty sure that if I actually asked the people which they meant they would walk away in confusion.

 

IOW, those that have asked me are asking if my dcs are allowed to have friends :glare:

[Jean in Newcastle]

Since most people who ask about socialization then ask if we have playdates or express surprise that my kids have friends, they are definitely asking about socializing.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

No, I don't think most of them have any idea what "socialization" really means.

 

One's norms, customs, and ideologies customarily come from the family in which they grow up. Now, our government might want to change that, such that our children grow up with different norms, etc. than our own, but I don't think they have a right to do that....

 

Not to head too far down a political path, but one of the justifications for public schools is that then socialization doesn't come from within the family unit, or from church or local communities. In a sizeable portion of education circles, the family, faith and local community influences are seen as something negative that children should be weaned free of. [NB: I speak from my experience in getting an MS Ed and from reading a lot of books and journals aimed at educators.]

 

More and more has been piled on the school that used to be enculturated elsewhere. From s*xual morality to how to behave toward other people, to ettiquette to the value of the young and the elderly, etc.

 

It is a self-licking ice cream cone. Some children are judged as lacking. The schools impose more character education. The parents back off because they aren't "professionals" or are overtly advised to back off. Then even more kids come to school without those skills.

 

So when these folks ask about socialization, what they are asking is what is going to keep your children from being small minded, bigoted, ignorant people. And I think there is an under the breath presumption that the parents must be or they wouldn't be homeschooling.

[ChristusG]

Honestly, I think that most people have no clue what they are referring to when they ask that question. Basically they are wanting to know if your kids interact with other kids. That's not really what socialization means.....but I answer them as if they are asking me if my kids sit in a closet alone, staring at the wall.

[mcconnellboys]

I know, I was trying not to get too political, myself. I hate to say that I see what looks to me like signs of a communist or socialist type of state within our educational establishment and it's been there for quite a few decades. I have to believe that most folks who espouse these views aren't really thinking things through clearly. Surely they would be mortified to think what the ramifications of such a thing could be if it were carried to its fullest extent....

 

We've talked for years about parents who are too hands-off in educating their children about many of the things you mention; but if those parents were raised within the same system and that's how things were in their own lives, how could we expect them to live any differently, for the most part? They don't know any better. They grew up under the impression that all such things should be dealt with at school, rather than at home....

 

I'm not quite sure how we came to such a point in time. I was talking to my parents about this a few weekends ago. They are 75 and grew up during the WWII years. I thought for sure that the change didn't really begin to happen until about the mid-70's, after I was through elementary school, but my mom asserted that much of this was true even when she was in elementary. So maybe it's been going on longer than I think....

[mcconnellboys]

Right. I long ago took to asking people, "What do you mean by socilization?" In general, they don't have a clue or are defining it improperly....

[Garga]

Right. I long ago took to asking people, "What do you mean by socilization?" In general, they don't have a clue or are defining it improperly....

 

 

I guess that's the right way to go. I don't really want to answer the, "what about socialization" question, unless I know what I'm really being asked.

 

If someone is concerned that my kids are lonely (a grandma might ask for this reason), then I'd want to reassure her that my kids have friends.

 

But if an educator is concerned that I'm small-minded and bigoted (as another poster said they might assume), then I'd want to set him or her straight!

[Dawn in OH]

Honestly, I think that most people have no clue what they are referring to when they ask that question. Basically they are wanting to know if your kids interact with other kids. That's not really what socialization means.....but I answer them as if they are asking me if my kids sit in a closet alone, staring at the wall.

 

:iagree:

[Jean in Newcastle]

I guess that's the right way to go. I don't really want to answer the, "what about socialization" question, unless I know what I'm really being asked.

 

If someone is concerned that my kids are lonely (a grandma might ask for this reason), then I'd want to reassure her that my kids have friends.

 

But if an educator is concerned that I'm small-minded and bigoted (as another poster said they might assume), then I'd want to set him or her straight!

 

That's true. I guess I will start to ask.

[AHASRADA]

I typically assume they are referring to "socializing", as in, having friends and activities.

 

If the question came from someone who truly understood the definition of "socialization" (in which case, it would be a politically- and idiologically-charged question) I would be tempted to respond with:

 

"I've seen the village, and I don't want it raising my children." :lol:

[Mejane]

No, I don't think most of them have any idea what "socialization" really means.

 

 

 

:iagree: However, I'm just obnoxious enough to enlighten them. ;)

[Garga]

:iagree: However, I'm just obnoxious enough to enlighten them. ;)

 

 

See...that's where I'm feeling a little dangerous. I'm sort of waiting for someone to ask me "What about socialization" so that I can start "enlightening" them.

[VBoulden]

There's a whole set of customs and expectations and unspoken rules, etc, that home schooled kids will never know about. (Personally, I'm glad about that!)

 

:iagree:

 

I think you are onto something here. Until now, I was not able to see where my friends who public/ private school their kids were coming from when they asked, "What about socialization?"

 

I don't think they are asking, "Does your kid ever get out?" because they know we get out... We are hanging out with them and their kids, so it is obvious that we get out!!!

 

I think they are actually hinting around to the fact that they think it is bad for kids to be different- as in- unaware of some of the social norms, unspoken rules, etc. that you mentioned above. They don't want their kids to be "off beat" or "different" and therefore, to be treated differently, prejudiced against, picked on, etc.

 

But, I, personally, think kids who are "normal" are boring and I feel sorry for them because I can SEE what these "norms" and "values" and "customs" are and I reject them...

 

It seems like kids lose the ability to be themselves at school. The system seems to take child after child from being innocent, curious, fun, and free and turns them into mean, soulless, little- label-loving consumers. And, because it does this to almost every child who goes there, we call it a "normal" part of being a kid.

 

I think the typical home schooler proves that this is not so. I've met homeschooler after homeschooler who loves their mom and dad, who is best friends with their brother and sister, who doesn't even know what "Ughs" are and doesn't care whether or not something they wear says "Abercrombie."

 

A good friend of mine confessed that her six year old (six year old!!!) public schooled daughter has started dressing herself, treating her mom with contempt and is begging for more clothes because she knows what "looks good" AKA- what the other kids won't pick on her for... but she is dismissing it because this is "normal" behavior. If I were a better friend, I'd probably be more honest with her about what I thought... But how do I even begin to "go there" with her?

 

My daughter is still clueless about this kind of stuff... she approaches other kids: fat, skinny, black or white... and only decides not to be friends with them based on how they treat her or what they do or do not have in common. She doesn't even notice what they wear or what they look like.

 

It has taken me years to strip myself of the materialism and prejudice school taught me and I love that being outside the system allows my daughter to just be... herself. :001_smile:

 

Do you guys get where I am coming from? What do you think?

Edited October 14, 2010 by VBoulden

[jenL]

Most people think it is the same thing. Seriously, I don't think they even think it is one or another, I believe they smoosh them together. That is because they have been *socialized*. :D (I need some jazz hands in there, too).

 

However, I think when asking the question, they are really envisioning the whole HOME school stereotype of being trapped in the house all day only interacting with family.

 

Blah.

 

:iagree:

[Mrs Mungo]

Definition on the web:

Socialization is a term used by sociologists, social psychologists, anthropologists, politicians and educationalists to refer to the process of inheriting norms, customs and ideologies.

 

 

With the above definition in mind, when people say, "What about socialization?" do you think they're asking, "Do you hang out with people?" or do you think they're asking, "Are your kids going to be growing up with a different set of norms, customs and ideologies from everyone else, and will that cause them problems later in life?"

 

I think most people are asking if they interact with peers.

[Mrs Mungo]

:iagree:

 

I think you are onto something here. Until now, I was not able to see where my friends who public/ private school their kids were coming from when they asked, "What about socialization?"

 

I don't think they are asking, "Does your kid ever get out?" because they know we get out... We are hanging out with them and their kids, so it is obvious that we get out!!!

 

I think they are actually hinting around to the fact that they think it is bad for kids to be different- as in- unaware of some of the social norms, unspoken rules, etc. that you mentioned above. They don't want their kids to be "off beat" or "different" and therefore, to be treated differently, prejudiced against, picked on, etc.

 

But, I, personally, think kids who are "normal" are boring and I feel sorry for them because I can SEE what these "norms" and "values" and "customs" are and I reject them...

 

It seems like kids lose the ability to be themselves at school. The system seems to take child after child from being innocent, curious, fun, and free and turns them into mean, soulless, little- label-loving consumers. And, because it does this to almost every child who goes there, we call it a "normal" part of being a kid.

 

I think the typical home schooler proves that this is not so. I've met homeschooler after homeschooler who loves their mom and dad, who is best friends with their brother and sister, who doesn't even know what "Ughs" are and doesn't care whether or not something they wear says "Abercrombie."

 

A good friend of mine confessed that her six year old (six year old!!!) public schooled daughter has started dressing herself, treating her mom with contempt and is begging for more clothes because she knows what "looks good" AKA- what the other kids won't pick on her for... but she is dismissing it because this is "normal" behavior. If I were a better friend, I'd probably be more honest with her about what I thought... But how do I even begin to "go there" with her?

 

My daughter is still clueless about this kind of stuff... she approaches other kids: fat, skinny, black or white... and only decides not to be friends with them based on how they treat her or what they do or do not have in common. She doesn't even notice what they wear or what they look like.

 

It has taken me years to strip myself of the materialism and prejudice school taught me and I love that being outside the system allows my daughter to just be... herself. :001_smile:

 

Do you guys get where I am coming from? What do you think?

 

Hm, I see your point and I think it's a good one.

[KrissiK]

Definition on the web:

Socialization is a term used by sociologists, social psychologists, anthropologists, politicians and educationalists to refer to the process of inheriting norms, customs and ideologies.

 

A child can't help but be socialized unless they literally never left the house. I model "socialization" every time I leave the house and am polite to the librarian, ask questions of the doctor, let the guy in the line at the supermarket with only a gallon on milk go ahead of me. Even if my children were never involved in anything extra-curriculur they would still be socialized as they watch their parents and interact themselves with others at church and in the neighborhood.

 

I find it interesting that people are so concerned that homeschool children are "missing out" on all that goes on in a classroom socially. I find the whole thing to be abhorrent. Fortunately, I was a "normal" child growing up, I didn't rock the boat, there wasn't anything too different about me so I was able to make my way socially without too many scars. But, as a teacher I saw, and unfortunately wasn't able to do too much about the cliques, the pecking orders, and the downright cruel way children treat each other. I wouldn't put my child in the midst of that.

[radiobrain]

On the tangent of parents being slightly horrified by the idea that your kids will somehow be less ok in their adult life if they don't get on the SIlly Bandz (insert any other obnoxious fad/trendy thing here) bandwagon. PLEASE!!!! :tongue_smilie:

 

I realize that my kids will be odd balls. But, you know what, my kids were destined to be oddballs because they are MY kids.

 

I think that each of us must have something very different within us to buck the system as we do, and that will manifest itself in some way no matter how we socialize our children.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think they are actually hinting around to the fact that they think it is bad for kids to be different- as in- unaware of some of the social norms, unspoken rules, etc. that you mentioned above. They don't want their kids to be "off beat" or "different" and therefore, to be treated differently, prejudiced against, picked on, etc.

 

 

I think this is why ds13's taekwando instructor said to him "be careful" the other day when he came to practice with his Algebra text in tow. He was warning him that he might be seen as too geeky. I pointed out to the instructor that taekwando was a safe place for the boys to share their interests with each other because he doesn't tolerate any disrespect from them for anyone else. He nodded and said that he'd gotten lots of good advice from the teens when he was having a chess match the other day with another instructor. There are definitely other geeks there and they aren't afraid to show it!

 

I would hate for ds to go to an environment (ie. our local middle school) that has a reputation for being very hard on anyone who shows their interest in learning. These might be cultural norms but they aren't based on solid values that I want my kids to pick up.

[TXMary2]

On the tangent of parents being slightly horrified by the idea that your kids will somehow be less ok in their adult life if they don't get on the SIlly Bandz (insert any other obnoxious fad/trendy thing here) bandwagon. PLEASE!!!! :tongue_smilie:

 

I realize that my kids will be odd balls. But, you know what, my kids were destined to be oddballs because they are MY kids.

 

I think that each of us must have something very different within us to buck the system as we do, and that will manifest itself in some way no matter how we socialize our children.

 

Well, if silly bands are all it takes my 6 yo ds is fully socialized!!:tongue_smilie::D