Balance between child-led & teacher-led

[Mama_Rana]

I really want my son to explore things he's interested in, but there are only so many hours in the day, and days in the week. Does anyone else struggle with exploring topics of interest to their kids, and still covering the stuff you've planned? For example, DS really wants to learn about Vikings. We're doing SOTW, and have been studying Ancient Egypt. I don't want to put him off, but I want to finish our Egyptians stuff too.

Another example is that he wants to make a volcano. I plan to do this when we get to Pompeii, but that's much later in the year. *sigh* I keep reminding him that it's coming, but.....

 

Any tips?

[LibraryLover]

This is when you stop with Mummies and do Vikings. So what? The mummies be there.

[Chris in VA]

We were able to homeschool pretty efficiently, leaving the afternoons for more child-led explorations.

So, you do the history then you hand them the Viking Kit and do it for fun, much like a public schooled kid whose parents play with him at night.

[Jean in Newcastle]

We were able to homeschool pretty efficiently, leaving the afternoons for more child-led explorations.

So, you do the history then you hand them the Viking Kit and do it for fun, much like a public schooled kid whose parents play with him at night.

 

That's what we do.

[LibraryLover]

And then next year, when he's not interested in Vikings, one does Vikings?

 

What's the point here?

 

It's history rotation, not a blood sport.

[Corraleno]

This is when you stop with Mummies and do Vikings. So what? The mummies be there.

:iagree:

 

This was the biggest epiphany I had this past year and it's totally changed our homeschool. I spent the past 2 years telling DS "no, we can't build the Galileoscopes now, we're doing astronomy next year" and "no, we can't set up a protist tank, that's for next spring," etc., etc., etc. Meanwhile I was trying to forcefeed him topics he wasn't currently interested in, while forbidding him from exploring things he was dying to learn about. What what I thinking??? :confused:

 

Last year I spent months trying to pound Early Near Eastern history into DS. He had zero interest, wasn't retaining anything, and was dying to move on to Egypt. I finally gave up and we moved into Egypt — where we stayed for 6 months because he was totally fascinated, read/watched everything he could get his hands on, including 60 Teaching Company lectures! Now we're in Greece and again he's reading everything he can find, watching tons of documentaries, and already knows more about Greek history and culture than I do. A few days ago he told me that he wants to go back and learn more about Mesopotamian city-states, so he can understand the similarities and differences between those and the Greek city states. :svengo: Now that he's ready and wants to learn about Mesopotamia, I'm sure he'll learn more in a week than he did in the 3 months I tried to forcefeed him last year.

 

They learn and retain so much more when they're engaged and interested. Your little guy is only six! Now more than ever is the time to follow his interests and feed that little mind. At that age it doesn't matter if you do history "out of order" — just make a timeline and he'll fit all the pieces together. I used to feel like I was trying to pound information into DS's head through a tiny opening with a sledge hammer; now I feel like I'm providing a pool of water for a sponge. I'm bowled over by the amount of information he can absorb and retain, the connections he makes, the research he does on his own to pursue side roads and rabbit trails, when it's something he's really interested in, rather than something I've trying to force on him because it's on my "schedule."

 

You might want to read this thread where 8FilltheHeart describes how she does interest-led history and science with her littles. Then, if you have the time, read this thread on how some folks are doing this quite successfully even with middle school and high school kids.

 

Jackie

[Farrar]

He's six, right? Put up a timeline and when you do something, add it to the timeline. I think getting a sense of the flow of history in "proper" order is a little overrated at this age. Exposure to different things is more important, IMO. Let him follow what he wants... If he's really as interested in stuff, that's great.

[Mama_Rana]

Thanks, everyone, for your support. I am going to do my best to accommodate him. We're still working on our efficiency..... But I certainly don't want him to think I'm not listening to him.

 

LibraryLover, I gotta say, though I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, I do find your tone off-putting and almost aggressive. :confused:

[GoVanGogh]

This is when you stop with Mummies and do Vikings. So what? The mummies be there.

And then next year, when he's not interested in Vikings, one does Vikings?

 

What's the point here?

 

It's history rotation, not a blood sport.

:iagree:

 

I have one foot firmly in the "classical camp," but the other foot is totally planted in the "child-led/unschooling camp."

 

I just totally redid our schedule because my son is terribly interested in physics right now and couldn't wait another moment to study it deeper. "It's the lighting of a fire, not the filling of a bucket," you know. Light the fire. Go with it. It's not a race to get everything you want into their heads.

 

I generally either plan to spend one entire day a week for a few months on my child's interest or we set aside our regular studies for a few weeks and devote that time to a passion.

[angela in ohio]

I can tell you what has worked so very well for us. I have a different apporach than many. I teach dc what I think they need during "school time" and then I give them the resources (time, money, materials, etc.) to explore their own interests on their own. This has created kiddos who are extremely excited about learning and have the skills to do it. By not incorporating their interests into my plans, I have given them ownership of their education while still providing them with the firm foundation necessary to keep pursuing interesting topics as they get older.

 

This was the approach I had when I was young: I learned the necessary skills in school, and then my parents gave me the resources to learn anything else I wanted on my own time. It gave me an incredible thirst for learning that has continued to this day.

 

In this way, I also avoid having to spend time revising plans constantly. This gives me more time to spend with dc. :001_smile:

Edited September 16, 2010 by angela in ohio

[LibraryLover]

Frankness can sound aggressive. So more smilies! :001_smile::grouphug:

 

Here's the thing. Early childhood is a time for stories, a time for children to become excited about the world.

 

It's not about starting as early as possible. If we think about the beginnings of classical education, small children were not participating in the formal educational process (nor were girls or poor for that matter) at all. The students were older, 9 and 10 and more. At 6, you were still in the folds of your mother's skirts, riding your horse, playing around the house, and taking it all in. You were listening to stories...you were looking at the stars. But the formal learning did not happen at age 6. So even from a classical education standpoint, we're asking far more from children than even the brightest mind was ever asked.

 

Do the excitement and stories first. Even if you started the 3 year formal rotation at age 10, say (which I know is pushing it here lol) you would still be able to start it all again at 15 or so. And they they could do it again in college.

 

It doesn't matter at 6 whether Vikings or Mummies come first. It really doesn't. :grouphug::001_smile:

[Mama_Rana]

Lots of interesting stuff here! Thanks!

 

He's six, right? Put up a timeline and when you do something, add it to the timeline. I think getting a sense of the flow of history in "proper" order is a little overrated at this age. Exposure to different things is more important, IMO. Let him follow what he wants... If he's really as interested in stuff, that's great.

 

So funny you should say this! When we went back to read some stuff about Egypt--AFTER we'd done some reading about Vikings--he made some comparison between the two or something, and so I did a quick sketch of a timeline to show him how far apart Ancient Egypt and Vikings were. I told him we're going to make a big timeline on our wall, but we just need to finish getting the furniture in place [we've completely refurnished the room both for HSing, and just cuz I was never happy with the way that room worked]. He wanted to make the timeline NOW!!!! :lol So yeah, I gotta get that done this weekend so I can get the timeline up!!

[GoVanGogh]

 

Frankness can sound aggressive. So more smilies! :001_smile::grouphug:

I read your original comment (It's a history rotation and not a blood sport) and chuckled. I thought it was funny, even worthy of being my homeschool mantra. You know - for those times when I think we "must" get "x" done before we go on to "y." :tongue_smilie:

[Cedarmom]

Elementary is a good time or those tangents. As long asit iseducational ( no stopping studying vikings so you can work on improving your Wii score) Go with it. THose tangents are porbably what your child will remmeber most. In your older years, you end up having to keep more to a scedule.

[Mejane]

.

Edited September 18, 2010 by Mejane

[stripe]

Can't he look at stuff he finds interesting on his own time? My son, for example, reads about the human body before bed. Are we "studying" the body / anatomy / nutrition right now? No, but he's learning about it. Unless you have a very rigid schedule or see homeschooling as revealing surprises (And now....You've wondered for years what that hypotenuse is all about, and what's the difference between a hypotenuse and a hippopotamus, so, without further ado, behind curtain number 2...it's THE PYTHAGOREAN THEOREM!), I think perhaps you should be a bit more flexible and allow multiple streams to be going on at once.

[Jean in Newcastle]

And then next year, when he's not interested in Vikings, one does Vikings?

 

What's the point here?

 

It's history rotation, not a blood sport.

 

Let me tell you why I kept with what I had planned but added stuff in the afternoons. I am chronically ill and getting things lined up so that we could use them took a lot of energy at this age. So if I had planned on mummies, then I had holds on books on mummies at the library (since because of financial reasons we get most of our books from the library). I had projects and their supplies ready for mummies. So a sudden request for something on Vikings was overwhelming for me - not because I'm an anal inflexible person but because of my energy levels.

 

But - I do agree with striking while the iron was hot. I would gather what I could with little energy spent on Vikings (perhaps a book we might have in our personal library, some stuff printed off the internet) and I would let my child read and interact with those things on his own. That didn't mean that I couldn't start to order those books from the library and to gather the supplies for the projects we were going to do and to push it up to an earlier time, I was willing to do that. But I did not (and still don't btw) have the energy to drop everything and change instantaneously. I wish I could, but I can't.

 

I don't anticipate that everyone has my health needs. But many people have multiple children, perhaps are working out of the home or have other demands on their time, and can't just drop everything planned to come up with a wonderfully inventive study on a new subject of choice.

[LibraryLover]

I am so sorry you have health problems. That has to be frustrating and painful, on an emotional as well as a physical level.

 

I wish you did not have to deal with that.

 

Yet, and I say this as gently as I can: I don't think people should be killing themselves over timelines & history rotations wrt a 6 year old. Or even anyone 10 and under. (Not trying to be a heretic. If it works for a child and family, it works). This doesn't mean I do not value a good and classical education and your right to do this in a way that makes sense for your family.

 

Let me tell you why I kept with what I had planned but added stuff in the afternoons. I am chronically ill and getting things lined up so that we could use them took a lot of energy at this age. So if I had planned on mummies, then I had holds on books on mummies at the library (since because of financial reasons we get most of our books from the library). I had projects and their supplies ready for mummies. So a sudden request for something on Vikings was overwhelming for me - not because I'm an anal inflexible person but because of my energy levels.

 

But - I do agree with striking while the iron was hot. I would gather what I could with little energy spent on Vikings (perhaps a book we might have in our personal library, some stuff printed off the internet) and I would let my child read and interact with those things on his own. That didn't mean that I couldn't start to order those books from the library and to gather the supplies for the projects we were going to do and to push it up to an earlier time, I was willing to do that. But I did not (and still don't btw) have the energy to drop everything and change instantaneously. I wish I could, but I can't.

 

I don't anticipate that everyone has my health needs. But many people have multiple children, perhaps are working out of the home or have other demands on their time, and can't just drop everything planned to come up with a wonderfully inventive study on a new subject of choice.

Edited September 17, 2010 by LibraryLover
clarity, spelling

[LibraryLover]

:001_smile: lol Thank you. I really did mean that in a light spirit. Enrich the child. Engage the child. Set the child on fire with stories. That's how it begins. A strict order of presentation makes no never- mind to the pre-logic child.

 

I read your original comment (It's a history rotation and not a blood sport) and chuckled. I thought it was funny, even worthy of being my homeschool mantra. You know - for those times when I think we "must" get "x" done before we go on to "y." :tongue_smilie:

Edited September 17, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Guest janainaz]

If my kids WANTED and DESIRED to do any of those activities and had a true interest, I would stop whatever was necessary and embark on the adventure.

 

I am a homeschool mom that sticks to the curriculum, no matter what, but I truly believe that much learning can take place when there is true interest. You can incorporate every subject into that one small thing.....

 

My ds10 was so interested in money (the bills, the coins, the building, the presidents, every aspect of it) and he learned so much before he was even 5 years old. He could tell you everything about money, about the presidents on the money, their history, where they were born, what they liked to do, etc. - by the time he was 6 years old - I got every book under the sun for him. It was well worth it.

[Mama_Rana]

Can't he look at stuff he finds interesting on his own time? My son, for example, reads about the human body before bed. Are we "studying" the body / anatomy / nutrition right now? No, but he's learning about it. Unless you have a very rigid schedule or see homeschooling as revealing surprises (And now....You've wondered for years what that hypotenuse is all about, and what's the difference between a hypotenuse and a hippopotamus, so, without further ado, behind curtain number 2...it's THE PYTHAGOREAN THEOREM!), I think perhaps you should be a bit more flexible and allow multiple streams to be going on at once.

Of course he can, but he wants to do it during school time. ;) I will readily admit I'm still struggling to find that balance between overly relaxed and overly structured. I used to teach in P.S. in a situation where I had to be fairly INflexible in scheduling, so that's my leaning even though I recognize I don't need to be that way at home. I'm fighting to overcome that tendency.

 

Look, I feel, like I didn't word my original post wel--a problem I have, actually. I don't want to NOT let him pursue his interests, suppress them or anything, I would just rather do both, and wondered how to best make that happen. As Jean said, I go to a lot of effort to organize whatever it is that comes next, and I do believe there is SOME value in organizing one's learning.

 

One thing I've done already -- even before the Vikings came up -- is to give him the choice for at least one read-aloud a day so that we can read something HE specifically wants. And today we did read about Vikings, AND still did our lesson on Sumer. This afternoon we went to the craft store to buy the clay we needed to do the Viking craft project he wanted to do [which I already had at home, but I couldn't find!]. When we got home, his father helped him get it started--it needs several days to dry. Tomorrow I hope to squeeze in a library trip after his speech therapy to find some Viking stuff.

 

So I don't want ya'll to think that I'm trying to beat this out of him or something. I just want to do a better job of following 2 paths. :D

 

LibraryLover, thank you for clarifying. I'm sorry if I read you wrong; I tried to account for the facelessness of the internet, but.... :tongue_smilie:

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yet, and I say this as gently as I can: I don't think people should be killing themselves over timelines & history rotations wrt a 6 year old. Or even anyone 10 and under. (Not trying to be a heretic. If it works for a child and family, it works). This doesn't mean I do not value a good and classical education.

 

For clarity, I don't think we ever went over 2 hours a day at that age - including read-alouds. And having things planned out does not = killing ourselves over a timeline/history rotation!

 

Most of the "older" homeschooling moms on this board (and I count myself as one since I've been doing this for 9 years), are fairly relaxed with younger children. We believe in lots of play, exploration, and in encouraging a love of learning.

[LibraryLover]

I think you know what you need to do for your family. That's wonderful.

 

For clarity, I don't think we ever went over 2 hours a day at that age - including read-alouds. And having things planned out does not = killing ourselves over a timeline/history rotation!

 

Most of the "older" homeschooling moms on this board (and I count myself as one since I've been doing this for 9 years), are fairly relaxed with younger children. We believe in lots of play, exploration, and in encouraging a love of learning.

[Kathleen in VA]

I'm working on this balance right now so thought I'd chime in with stuff I've learned over the past few weeks.

 

I've homeschooled three through high school and so am only teaching ds14 and dd11 right now. I decided in August sometime that I didn't want to purchase any more curriculum because, having homeschooled since 1992, I've got living books coming out my ears (not to mention an awesome public library). I just couldn't justify spending any more money knowing that I have such a storehouse of knowledge already on my shelves. I did end up buying a few inexpensive things to help me with the structure of our history study simply because I needed something as a guide. Mostly, though, I've just been raiding my library.:)

 

Anyway, after poring over all the books in the house I kept coming back to the realization that it didn't really matter what topic we covered - what I really wanted to achieve this year had more to do with strengthening skills (writing, speaking, reading comprehension, math) as opposed to adding knowledge. Any medium, any topic would provide the means to achieve that. So I made a list of the skills I wanted Ds14 to develop (this is the teacher-led part). I found that this made it much easier for me to let go of packaged curriculum because I just kept taking what I had and thinking of ways to use it to strenghten those skills. Whatever knowledge he gained along the way was icing.

 

Ds14 loves structure. He wants to have a list and check it off. He is also very linear and enjoys learning history that way so that makes it easier for me. Right now we are studying Napoleon (this is the child-led part). He enjoys biographies (he went through about 20 or so Childhood of Famous Americans when he was younger) and isn't big on fiction. He likes guns, wars, ships, - typical boy stuff. So I've been centering all his homeschooling right now on his interests in these things.

 

I'm not just filling a basket with books and letting him pick what he wants to do. I wouldn't know if those skills were being developed if I did that. I did ask him what he wanted to learn about and I took that interest and developed a course of action, as it were, to attack those skills using topics he cares about. I do the planning, but he picks the subjects he covers.

 

It's taken me a few weeks to really hone this all to the point where I've got a few weeks of work written down in plan book for him. I finally got it all settled just today.

 

Now I've got to sit down and do the same exercise with dd11. Determine what skills she is weak in and plan a study based on her interests that strenghtens those skills. They are very, very different sorts of people so it will be another few weeks before I've got her all settled into a routine.

 

One more thing, so far it seems to be working very well with Ds. He's been studying warships from the Napoleonic war era - wrote a report on the HMS Victory (Nelson's flagship during the Battle of Trafalgar), listening to SOTW, Vol. III about Napoleon, and lots more. Last night we watched Master and Commander: Far Side of the World (the Russell Crowe movie) and he loved it. I've heard lots of folks say it's boring as anything - put them to sleep - but Ds absolutely loved it. I think it's because from all this study he had the context into which he could place the story. He had read about the ships, the powder monkeys, the running rigging, the cannons, the French, the Royal Navy, etc. etc. and it all just came together for him. I just wish everyone here could have seen his face when the movie ended. He seemed surprised to find that all that he had been learning up to now helped him to understand a cannon-blasting, hand-to-hand combat, action-packed Hollywood movie and he couldn't have been more delighted.

[Corraleno]

Look, I feel, like I didn't word my original post wel--a problem I have, actually. I don't want to NOT let him pursue his interests, suppress them or anything, I would just rather do both, and wondered how to best make that happen. As Jean said, I go to a lot of effort to organize whatever it is that comes next, and I do believe there is SOME value in organizing one's learning.

I would really encourage you to read this thread by 8FilltheHeart. She does entirely interest-led history and science all the way through middle school. I think the need to have everything all nicely scheduled and planned out months in advance, especially for this younger age group, is a mom thing, not a kid thing. A first grader really doesn't need to spend an entire year on biology and ancient history. Following their interests and passions as they arise often leads to much better understanding and retention than making them stick to a neat & tidy schedule that makes us feel good but may seem completely arbitrary to them. I wasted 2 years learning that lesson, and I sure wish I could go back and start over!

 

Jackie

[angela in ohio]

I don't want to NOT let him pursue his interests, suppress them or anything, I would just rather do both, and wondered how to best make that happen. As Jean said, I go to a lot of effort to organize whatever it is that comes next, and I do believe there is SOME value in organizing one's learning.

 

There is value in it, and you can easily do both. :001_smile:

 

There is a difference betwwen having unrealistic expectations (hours and hours of school work with young children or pushing them into curriculum that is ahead of their abilities) and just pre-planning age-appropriate educational activities.

 

If you have a great relationship and model a love of learning, your dc will want to learn anything you put in front of him, as well as the things he wants to pusue on his own. It works out just fine. :001_smile:

[stripe]

Anyway, after poring over all the books in the house I kept coming back to the realization that it didn't really matter what topic we covered - what I really wanted to achieve this year had more to do with strengthening skills (writing, speaking, reading comprehension, math) as opposed to adding knowledge. Any medium, any topic would provide the means to achieve that. So I made a list of the skills I wanted Ds14 to develop (this is the teacher-led part).

Thank you for articulating this exceptional point.

[Corraleno]

If you have a great relationship and model a love of learning, your dc will want to learn anything you put in front of him, as well as the things he wants to pusue on his own. It works out just fine. :001_smile:

I'm glad that's true for your kids, but it's simply not true for every kid. It's definitely not true for mine (and yes we have a very close relationship and I definitely model a love of learning). DH and I have a close relationship, too — doesn't mean I will ever have any interest in learning about WWII aircraft.

 

Jackie