Geez Louise! - Apologia Biology!!!

[lagirl]

My dd is 15 yr old/Sophomore.

We began our "school" on Aug 2.

She is on Module #2 in Apologia Biology.

This.Stuff.Is.So.Difficult. :ack2:

 

Even though she is only reading & trying to digest 5 pgs per day it is still totally a massive headache for her (and for us).

I wish I had not bought this curriculum, but it is done.

I'm wondering how we are going to ever get her through this.

Surely there is an easier way to obtain this knowledge - especially for someone who is not looking for a science based education. ?????

It seems the subject matter is waaaay above the average high school sophomore's level - especially for a student who has no interest in science.

 

Any suggestions for how we can use this material in a way that won't completely turn dd off of science?

[In The Great White North]

Would she like it in audio? The mp3 is only $15 and made a huge difference for my audio-learner ds.

[tex-mex]

Would she like it in audio? The mp3 is only $15 and made a huge difference for my audio-learner ds.

 

We used the mp3 CD too for other Apologia books when son was in junior high. We also used Live n Learn Press' lapbook for studying:

 

http://www.liveandlearnpress.com/biology.pdf

 

This is only the first chapter. You'll need to buy and download the entire book. But it helped us. I know of some families who break down the Biology from Apologia into a 2 year course. Will that help?

 

Scroll down to see the prices for the version you own:

http://www.liveandlearnpress.com/viewItems.php?category=18

 

Here is a schedule for Biology from Donna Young's site:

http://donnayoung.org/apologia/schedule.htm

[Susan C.]

do this:

virtualhomeschoolgroup.com

 

Free online class taught by a homeschool mom.

 

Dd did it last year, it was WONDERFUL. Right now, they are on module 6 (they do the class year-round), so you need to wait until module 9 to come in live. I would join, do modules 3-4 using the threads(you can do that) while you are waiting to come in live (modules 5-8 act as one unit and are hard to come in the middle of). When they finish, they just go to module 1 again. You can go online during open office times to get the feel for it and to learn how to use it. It isn't hard at all.

[lagirl]

These are wonderful suggestions.

I'm gonna check into them.

Thanks for your help!

~deb

[Chris in VA]

My dd is 15 yr old/Sophomore.

We began our "school" on Aug 2.

She is on Module #2 in Apologia Biology.

This.Stuff.Is.So.Difficult. :ack2:

 

Even though she is only reading & trying to digest 5 pgs per day it is still totally a massive headache for her (and for us).

I wish I had not bought this curriculum, but it is done.

I'm wondering how we are going to ever get her through this.

Surely there is an easier way to obtain this knowledge - especially for someone who is not looking for a science based education. ?????

It seems the subject matter is waaaay above the average high school sophomore's level - especially for a student who has no interest in science.

 

Any suggestions for how we can use this material in a way that won't completely turn dd off of science?

 

Sorry to tell you, but no, it is not above grade level. In fact, many say it is average or too easy.

I think perhaps it's the style of delivery that may be throwing you. It's written to the student. I agree with the MP3, but I also think there are some other helpful strategies.

 

Can you have her read the section, then teach it to her, then have her read it again? She should be taking notes on the text--does she have the skill of summarizing down pat? Can she take key word notes or outline? These were useful to us.

 

I hate to recommend this, but you can also teach to the test. It helps you know what is essential knowledge.

 

Is she doing the study guide as she goes, or is she waiting to fill it in right before the test? Ds found it easier to do it as he went thru the chapter, and I checked each question for him as it came up. Then he studied it for a whole day before the test--some of the guides basically ARE the test.

 

You are checking her work every day, right? Getting immediate feedback and reteaching right away helped ds stay on track.

 

Some do better when they redraw the diagrams. We just did the cells. Also, do you have the CD? It can help to illustrate some of the concepts more clearly.

 

Finally, I do think some chapters are easier than others. Don't give up!:001_smile:

 

Hang in there. Bio has lots of vocab and memorization.

 

My sil added Lyrical Life Science songs to her bio program, with lots of success. They are fun to listen to, but IDK if they'd be helpful.

[creekland]

Sorry to tell you, but no, it is not above grade level. In fact, many say it is average or too easy.

 

 

:iagree: It's definitely not above grade level for a college bound student, but I wouldn't call it easy. It also does not cover the human body as many high school level courses do (that's left for Advanced Bio - which goes in more depth than average high school Bio classes).

 

That said, it might not be the right curriculum for her if she's not understanding it well.

 

In any [decent] Bio there will be a lot of new vocab and memorization.

[Miss Marple]

Sorry to tell you, but no, it is not above grade level. In fact, many say it is average or too easy.

I think perhaps it's the style of delivery that may be throwing you. It's written to the student. I agree with the MP3, but I also think there are some other helpful strategies.

 

Can you have her read the section, then teach it to her, then have her read it again? She should be taking notes on the text--does she have the skill of summarizing down pat? Can she take key word notes or outline? These were useful to us.

 

I hate to recommend this, but you can also teach to the test. It helps you know what is essential knowledge.

 

Is she doing the study guide as she goes, or is she waiting to fill it in right before the test? Ds found it easier to do it as he went thru the chapter, and I checked each question for him as it came up. Then he studied it for a whole day before the test--some of the guides basically ARE the test.

 

You are checking her work every day, right? Getting immediate feedback and reteaching right away helped ds stay on track.

 

Some do better when they redraw the diagrams. We just did the cells. Also, do you have the CD? It can help to illustrate some of the concepts more clearly.

 

Finally, I do think some chapters are easier than others. Don't give up!:001_smile:

 

Hang in there. Bio has lots of vocab and memorization.

 

My sil added Lyrical Life Science songs to her bio program, with lots of success. They are fun to listen to, but IDK if they'd be helpful.

 

:iagree:

The OPs situation is one of the reasons we no longer use Apologia. It is too full of memorization, too much emphasis on details and too little of the big picture or application, and I have found it can demoralize the student to the point that they dislike science even when they previously liked it and were successful in it. If you have a hands-on learner or one who likes to see the practical application of science, Apologia is often difficult for that student. The subject of biology is not difficult as such, it's the presentation (as Chris said) that can cause difficulty.

 

If you (the OP) wish to continue with Apologia, I would recommend getting the DIVE CD for biology and use it in conjunction with Apologia. Apologia isn't a "bad" program per se (and definitely not "advanced"), but it is definitely geared to students with a particular learning style. Students can and do perform well after using Apologia, but I prefer a different teaching style and emphasis.

Edited August 17, 2010 by CynthiaOK

[holdoll]

do this:

virtualhomeschoolgroup.com

 

Free online class taught by a homeschool mom.

 

Dd did it last year, it was WONDERFUL. Right now, they are on module 6 (they do the class year-round), so you need to wait until module 9 to come in live. I would join, do modules 3-4 using the threads(you can do that) while you are waiting to come in live (modules 5-8 act as one unit and are hard to come in the middle of). When they finish, they just go to module 1 again. You can go online during open office times to get the feel for it and to learn how to use it. It isn't hard at all.

 

Once you're signed up, whether you're in the live or asynchronous class, you can still use the open office hours to ask Mrs. Moore questions. She is awesome! The 9am (central time) Biology class will be beginning Module 9 in two weeks. Mrs. Moore does the dissections on webcam.

[jelbe5]

We have not started our school year yet, but we will be using the Biology 101 DVD's. My dd has burned out on Apologia and I decided to give this a try. We will supplement with some additional books I purchased and library books. It will incorporate more "nature study" than the traditional bio course. Here is a link for info on Biology 101 and if you search here on the high school forum for Biology 101 you should be able to read some other threads about the program.

 

http://www.the101series.com/

 

If choose to continue with Apologia Biology, perhaps you can modify it for your dd. Here is a great website that takes the Apologia Biology book and uses it as a springboard for nature study.

 

http://handbookofnaturestudy.blogspot.com/2009/08/nature-study-as-part-of-high-school.html

 

Adrianne in IL

[In The Great White North]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susan C.

do this:

virtualhomeschoolgroup.com

 

Free online class taught by a homeschool mom.

 

Dd did it last year, it was WONDERFUL. Right now, they are on module 6 (they do the class year-round), so you need to wait until module 9 to come in live. I would join, do modules 3-4 using the threads(you can do that) while you are waiting to come in live (modules 5-8 act as one unit and are hard to come in the middle of). When they finish, they just go to module 1 again. You can go online during open office times to get the feel for it and to learn how to use it. It isn't hard at all.

 

Once you're signed up, whether you're in the live or asynchronous class, you can still use the open office hours to ask Mrs. Moore questions. She is awesome! The 9am (central time) Biology class will be beginning Module 9 in two weeks. Mrs. Moore does the dissections on webcam.

 

 

 

 

 

The course (both live and asynchronous) appear to be full. However, it has the "Guest may enter" icon next to it. It still asks for the password. Does anyone know how to enter the class as a guest?

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

The hardest part (for us) is the amount of vocabulary. This year will be my third time supervising this course for my kiddos. I plan on orally discussing most of the study guide and testing primarily on the vocab. I'll also do some testing on labeling pictures and diagrams.

 

I also think listening to the book on audio is a great suggestion. We have the first edition and do not have audio for this book.

[HollyDay]

We are not using Apologia so not sure if my advice is any good or not :). We did use Apologia up to Biology though and I found the cdrom invaluable and the audio cd helpful. If I was going to use this program, I would use both the supplemental materials.

[holdoll]

The course (both live and asynchronous) appear to be full. However, it has the "Guest may enter" icon next to it. It still asks for the password. Does anyone know how to enter the class as a guest?

 

No, you can get to that point only to receive more info on the "live" and "asynchronous" classes. To go any farther you must be enrolled in the course. This is to assure that "hackers" can't come in and destroy the courses. It looks like it won't be open again until January 2011.

[Susan C.]

Send an email to be sure, the chemistry class we are doing appeared to be full, but wasn't. In fact, a third class was opened to accommodate everyone. In the evenings, there is open office. If you send an email to learn how to get to that, then you can text Mrs. Moore and get the information you need.

[Angel]

My dd is 15 yr old/Sophomore.

We began our "school" on Aug 2.

She is on Module #2 in Apologia Biology.

This.Stuff.Is.So.Difficult. :ack2:

 

Even though she is only reading & trying to digest 5 pgs per day it is still totally a massive headache for her (and for us).

I wish I had not bought this curriculum, but it is done.

I'm wondering how we are going to ever get her through this.

Surely there is an easier way to obtain this knowledge - especially for someone who is not looking for a science based education. ?????

It seems the subject matter is waaaay above the average high school sophomore's level - especially for a student who has no interest in science.

 

Any suggestions for how we can use this material in a way that won't completely turn dd off of science?

 

My dd and I felt the same way last year. In fact, she still has a few modules to go. After grading a couple of tests, and after the module with over 30 vocab words, we went to open book tests. Dd still did the On Your Own Questions and the Study Guide, but the tests were open book. I also encouraged dd to talk about the things she DID find interesting, so as to keep some of her love for science alive amongst the tedium. Dd didn't do any of the experiments either. She gets lab at co-op (though not Biology).

 

:iagree:

The OPs situation is one of the reasons we no longer use Apologia. It is too full of memorization, too much emphasis on details and too little of the big picture or application, and I have found it can demoralize the student to the point that they dislike science even when they previously liked it and were successful in it. If you have a hands-on learner or one who likes to see the practical application of science, Apologia is often difficult for that student. The subject of biology is not difficult as such, it's the presentation (as Chris said) that can cause difficulty.

 

 

 

:iagree: We are not doing Chemistry with Apologia. Though she loves science, Dd is not going into a science based career, possibly not even college. I want her to be able to have a working knowledge of the sciences, not be stuffed full of minute details and vocab that she regurgitates for a test and then forgets by the next year.

[Oakblossoms]

Angel, do you know what you will do?

[emubird]

I have yet to see a high school biology text that does the science justice. There's usually too much emphasis on dry facts and memorizing vocabulary without much fitting it all together in an understandable framework. There actually are concepts in biology, but the texts don't seem to know that. Instead, they make it so darn difficult to understand that one becomes convinced that biology is the most difficult thing ever.

 

I haven't read Apologia, though, so I'm speaking from some kind of informed ignorance on the topic of that one in particular.

 

I'd get a lot of videos while you figure out what you're going to do next. David Attenborough did a ton of good ones (Life of Birds, Life of Mammals, Life in Cold Blood, Life in the Undergrowth....). Another one that my husband shows to his college classes is Darwin's Dangerous Idea which does a pretty good job of covering the development of the theory of evolution (that's the video, not the book by Daniel Dennett of the same title). The rest of the Evolution series by PBS that that video is from is also pretty good.

 

Here's an MIT lecture course that might be helpful:

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/biology/7-012-introduction-to-biology-fall-2004/video-lectures/

I seem to recall that these lectures may not cover every concept in detail (they may have left that to the TAs), but the professors do get excited about things, which is worth seeing.

Edited August 17, 2010 by emubird

[Angel]

Angel, do you know what you will do?

 

I am hesitant to post it here, only because the high school board is very rigorous. I chose to go with Real Science 4 Kids Chemistry Level II (Gravitas). It's billed for grades 7-9 but when I looked at it at the convention, I was pleased. Their website and the lady at the convention both said it can be used as a high school course. Dd has been loving the lab that my dh teaches at co-op and it is mostly chemistry. I didn't want to squash that love of chem with bland vocab and lots of math. I am hoping to foster her love of chemistry and give her time to explore other living books and I think this curriculum will do that.

[siloam]

:iagree:

The OPs situation is one of the reasons we no longer use Apologia. It is too full of memorization, too much emphasis on details and too little of the big picture or application, and I have found it can demoralize the student to the point that they dislike science even when they previously liked it and were successful in it. If you have a hands-on learner or one who likes to see the practical application of science, Apologia is often difficult for that student. The subject of biology is not difficult as such, it's the presentation (as Chris said) that can cause difficulty.

 

This was my feeling about Apologia General, glad to hear that someone more experienced came to the same conclusion. Though my kids are hands on learners and big picture thinkers to begin with. I still feel validated. :D

 

Heather

[emubird]

I am hesitant to post it here, only because the high school board is very rigorous. I chose to go with Real Science 4 Kids Chemistry Level II (Gravitas). It's billed for grades 7-9 but when I looked at it at the convention, I was pleased. Their website and the lady at the convention both said it can be used as a high school course. Dd has been loving the lab that my dh teaches at co-op and it is mostly chemistry. I didn't want to squash that love of chem with bland vocab and lots of math. I am hoping to foster her love of chemistry and give her time to explore other living books and I think this curriculum will do that.

 

At one point, we were using the Reader's Digest How Nature Works for 9th grade biology. I was more interested in having a book my kid would understand than one that was rigorous. I was just so frustrated by the nonsensical textbooks that I had to give up on them. I was a lot more interested in my kid learning concepts than random vocabulary.

[LittleHouseHomeschool]

Apologia has never been a great fit for our family. (We've tried it a couple of times.)

 

I really wanted to stay with Christian materials and we used ABeka for the oldest of my students. That said, ABeka is really outdated, and I've found stronger materials in the secular market. I wanted to find materials that made science relevant to the here and now of my children's lives...including recent discoveries, technological advances, etc... (My oldest child is now in college and has declared a science major.) I also looked at BJU, but again, I didn't like what I found.

 

Secondly, I wanted my children to be exposed to the evolution based teaching and moral/ethical questions raised when reading teaching from a secular viewpoint. (Because they are public university bound.) I personally have not liked the tone in Apologia at times, even if I agree with the view given. As I've looked at books, I see that the secular market does a better job of teaching science, though a Christian parent would definitely need to stay on top of the content, providing guidance along the way.

 

I've been able to find very inexpensive options in the used book market. My youngest son is using Glencoe Science Voyages for middle school. I've found all of his materials for under $10.00. Glencoe offers inexpensive home labs not unlike Apologia...so it has been a blessing to our family. I am pairing the secular materials with stand alone Christian books and media.

 

For biology I am considering some of the programs at the following site:

 

http://www.textbookleague.org/ttlindex.htm#gbio-hsb

 

If you are open to the idea of secular materials, you might find it helpful to go down to your local public school book depot. They often sell older out of adoption editions for just a few dollars and you can sometimes find teacher's manuals as well. That way you can flip through for content, writing style and appropriate graphics.

 

But what I would do is hang on to the Apologia for labs!! (That's what we did when we worked through ABeka Biology and then again, for Marine Biology.)

 

 

[Oakblossoms]

I am hesitant to post it here, only because the high school board is very rigorous. I chose to go with Real Science 4 Kids Chemistry Level II (Gravitas). It's billed for grades 7-9 but when I looked at it at the convention, I was pleased. Their website and the lady at the convention both said it can be used as a high school course. Dd has been loving the lab that my dh teaches at co-op and it is mostly chemistry. I didn't want to squash that love of chem with bland vocab and lots of math. I am hoping to foster her love of chemistry and give her time to explore other living books and I think this curriculum will do that.

 

Thanks for not being hesitant. I really wanted a rigorous education for my kids. But, my oldest is special needs. It's just not going that way for him. I've realized that I'm homeschooling to help him work on his level. So, I do this sort of thing for him. We got Apologia for free. I read through it because I was going to use Physical Science this year. A lot of people are using it for their 8th graders. But, I think it would just become a battle ground for us. It's way too much. Plus, I think Dr. Wile's attitude would bolster my son's black and white issues (Aspergers). Anywhoo...thanks for being brave;)

[Heather in VA]

Have you thought about using it with the D.I.V.E cds? We used them for Chem last year and plan to for Bio this year. Although we don't use Apologia, it can be used with several different texts. The syllabus for Apologia comes with the product.

 

Heather

[LittleHouseHomeschool]

I'm glad you posted! My high schooler has APD, and while I'd love to place him into a full strength chemistry course...it's just not going to be good for him. I will check out Real Science. It might give us a way to intro the course enough to prepare him for community college, if it is necessary for his major. (Which is still undecided...)

 

The whole point though, is that he has an interest in chemistry...and I want to encourage that, rather than drown him in it.

[thepoteetteam]

Ok, I am totally scared to read through this thread! WE are using Bio this year!

[homeschoolally]

Would she like it in audio? The mp3 is only $15 and made a huge difference for my audio-learner ds.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Made a huge difference here as well!!

[Angel]

Thanks for not being hesitant. I really wanted a rigorous education for my kids. But, my oldest is special needs. It's just not going that way for him. I've realized that I'm homeschooling to help him work on his level. So, I do this sort of thing for him. We got Apologia for free. I read through it because I was going to use Physical Science this year. A lot of people are using it for their 8th graders. But, I think it would just become a battle ground for us. It's way too much. Plus, I think Dr. Wile's attitude would bolster my son's black and white issues (Aspergers). Anywhoo...thanks for being brave;)

 

Thank you! My dd is and aspie, too. I don't remember if I mentioned that.

 

Trust me, I'm not brave often:D

[Guest wolfie]

I know this is WAY late, but I am fifteen now, and I took this course when I was in 7th grade. I am now in public school, and taking biology a second time. Apologia certainly is not above the sophomore level at all. You just need to take notes, read efficiently, and memorize. That's how it will be with any science or history class. If one plans on going to college then the ability to do all of that is essential; in college you won't be able to choose your textbooks, so you absolutely HAVE to know how to work through reading something that is not exactly suited to you.

 

Honestly, some of the classes I'm taking in public high school with other students my age are more challenging than the Apologia biology course ever was. In my humanities class I've been reading 20 pages of small print at a time, and I must absorb every detail I possibly can in order to get a decent grade on the quiz. So you see, even now it's extremely important to be able to read efficiently.

 

Also, this is a bit unrelated, but the information in the Apologia biology textbook is very outdated. It teaches that there are five kingdoms in taxonomy, when actually, as of 1990, there are six. Kingdom Monera has split into kingdoms Eubacteria and Archaebacteria. Just saying, haha. :D Our scientific knowledge is always progressing, so I don't even know how many other things in that book are no longer held to be true.

[MyThreeSons]

I don't have the text in front of me, but as I remember it being explained to me, Apologia goes from small to big, while some texts do it the other way. The cellular biology at the beginning of the text may be better understood later by some students, after they have the bigger picture. And some students may just need to mature a little to be ready for the intricate details.

 

My son used this at co-op last year. He really struggled thru the first semester, but did quite well in the Spring. This year, he is going back and re-doing the first half, and doing much better. I am very thankful for a great co-op teacher who is willing to work with us on this!

[Susan C.]

Old thread alert

[GinaPagnato]

Sorry to tell you, but no, it is not above grade level. In fact, many say it is average or too easy.

 

 

See, I don't agree with this. My bio text was easier than Apologia's and I was educated in one of the top counties in the country at the time.

Also, I taught sciences at private schools, and the material we used was less intensive than this book.

 

It's a lot, and is more than sufficient for a high school biology course.

[MyThreeSons]

Old thread alert

 

Okay, where's the blushing smilie?

 

I never think to look at the dates on these things; for some reason, it was near the top of the page when I logged on this morning, so I just jumped in. Sorry.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I know some threads have been around a while but I sure appreciate the revived wisdom of the group.