What is Reformed Christianity?

[Guest]

I am so embarrassed to ask this, but I really don't know. I have been a Christian all my life, and I always just considered myself a non-denominational Christian. I don't know all the differences, except between Catholic, Protestant, Latter Day Saints, etc. I do have some pretty strong beliefs, and now that I am teaching my children, I want to make sure I am picking the right curriculum that lines up with our beliefs. There has been some talk of Christians who are definitely not Reformed Christians.

 

Can anyone explain what Reformed Christianity is? How would this point of view change the way a curriculum comes across?

 

TIA!

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I found this

 

When we lived in Michigan there was (still is) a denomination called Protestant Reformed (VERY similar to Dutch Reformed-- we are all dutch were I come from LOL). I had friends that were protestant reformed. One of my friends said that they are reformed Christians. She told me that they believed in predesitnation, that they did not believe in dancing, drinking, divorce was ok but you do NOT get remarried. I believe that is along the same lines of what I posted for you. This is about the PRC (protestant reformed church)

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

Sorry, double post.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Cheryl in SoCal

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

I found this

 

When we lived in Michigan there was (still is) a denomination called Protestant Reformed (VERY similar to Dutch Reformed-- we are all dutch were I come from LOL). I had friends that were protestant reformed. One of my friends said that they are reformed Christians. She told me that they believed in predesitnation, that they did not believe in dancing, drinking, divorce was ok but you do NOT get remarried. I believe that is along the same lines of what I posted for you. This is about the PRC (protestant reformed church)

I think much varies from church to church, I know many reformed Christians who dance;) I would say the two most defining elements of reformed theology are election and providence.

 

ETA that I would say that it (like all worldviews) will affect how information is interpreted, especially in history.

[Kathleen in VA]

The defining doctrines of Reformed Christianity are often referred to by the acronymn TULIP and are sometimes called the Doctrines of Grace:

 

http://www.apuritansmind.com/tulip/tulip.htm

[Crimson Wife]

Calvinists.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I think much varies from church to church, I know many reformed Christians who dance;) I would say the two most defining elements of reformed theology are election and providence.

 

ETA that I would say that it (like all worldviews) will affect how information is interpreted, especially in history.

 

 

I am sorry, when I talked about the no dancing, divorce and the other things, I was talking about my friends particular beliefs! (within that particular branch of the PRC) I do know Christian Reformed people who dance also :D I re-read that and saw how bad I worded that :blushing:

[Guest]

Ohhhhhhh Summer....that can be one can of worms on this forum.

 

Here's a thread to get you started, but do a search on the general board for reformed, Calvinism, Dark side...that should get you going in your search.

 

I bought Sproul's What is Reformed Theology; haven't read it yet, but just thought I'd throw that out there. Good luck.

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

I am sorry, when I talked about the no dancing, divorce and the other things, I was talking about my friends particular beliefs! (within that particular branch of the PRC) I do know Christian Reformed people who dance also :D I re-read that and saw how bad I worded that :blushing:

I wasn't upset at all, just clarifying:001_smile: I'm sorry I made you feel bad!

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

Ohhhhhhh Summer....that can be one can of worms on this forum.

 

Here's a thread to get you started, but do a search on the general board for reformed, Calvinism, Dark side...that should get you going in your search.

 

I bought Sproul's What is Reformed Theology; haven't read it yet, but just thought I'd throw that out there. Good luck.

I didn't realize Darth Vader was reformed;):lol:

[Dolphin]

I am not 100% sure here, but I was always under the belief that Reformed Christianity are the branches of the Christian Faith that stemmed from the reformation. Primarily the Lutheran or Anglican Faith's. There are more Faiths that came off of those, (puritans, etc...)

[Crimson Wife]

I am not 100% sure here, but I was always under the belief that Reformed Christianity are the branches of the Christian Faith that stemmed from the reformation. Primarily the Lutheran or Anglican Faith's. There are more Faiths that came off of those, (puritans, etc...)

 

Nope, my mom's family is Episcopalian/Anglican and they most definitely do NOT hold Calvinist beliefs.

[Kathleen in VA]

I am not 100% sure here, but I was always under the belief that Reformed Christianity are the branches of the Christian Faith that stemmed from the reformation. Primarily the Lutheran or Anglican Faith's. There are more Faiths that came off of those, (puritans, etc...)

 

I would not consider the Anglican church reformed by any stretch. The Puritans and Pilgrims (then called Separatists) left England and came to America in the early 1600s because the Anglican church was persecuting them. The Anglican church, or Church of England, was established by Henry VIII when he defied the Catholic Church by divorcing one of his many wives.

[HSMom2One]

Maybe it would help if someone listed denominations that fall into the category of Reformed believers. I'm pretty sure that I have a general idea about what most denominations believe, but would find it interesting to see which ones are actually considered Reformed. I think that Presbyterians would be included in this group, but am not sure about others.

 

Anyone?

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Dolphin]

Like I said, I do not know how it is used today, but the Anglican church was a product of the reformation. Yes Henry the VIII was the King while the change came about, but there was a lot more going on then just him wanting a divorce.

 

This is just for anyone who finds it interesting by the way, not meant to be defensive or anything. (I just want to clarify as it is sometimes hard to tell on the internet. Oh, and I do have a bias as I am Anglican (I have lived in US and UK so it is easier to use the general term)

 

Henry was the second son and never meant to be King, he studied to become a priest.

 

Henry experienced first hand the corruption and politics that had taken root in some people within the Catholic church.

 

Henry became King when he was a teenager and his brother died. Catherine of Aragon was already Queen of England as she was married to Henry's brother.

 

The reformation was already happening and had already come to England. Many of his advisers believed in the reformation.

 

This all happened over years, not just for a quick divorce. He had an option to go back to the Catholic Church while he was married to his third wife Jane Seymour. Anne had been beheaded by this time, and Catherine had also died. As a widower he could have gone back to the church but he did believe in the reformation.

 

I find all of this history fascinating, I love seeing how things started.

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

Like I said, I do not know how it is used today, but the Anglican church was a product of the reformation. Yes Henry the VIII was the King while the change came about, but there was a lot more going on then just him wanting a divorce.

 

This is just for anyone who finds it interesting by the way, not meant to be defensive or anything. (I just want to clarify as it is sometimes hard to tell on the internet. Oh, and I do have a bias as I am Anglican (I have lived in US and UK so it is easier to use the general term)

 

Henry was the second son and never meant to be King, he studied to become a priest.

 

Henry experienced first hand the corruption and politics that had taken root in some people within the Catholic church.

 

Henry became King when he was a teenager and his brother died. Catherine of Aragon was already Queen of England as she was married to Henry's brother.

 

The reformation was already happening and had already come to England. Many of his advisers believed in the reformation.

 

This all happened over years, not just for a quick divorce. He had an option to go back to the Catholic Church while he was married to his third wife Jane Seymour. Anne had been beheaded by this time, and Catherine had also died. As a widower he could have gone back to the church but he did believe in the reformation.

 

I find all of this history fascinating, I love seeing how things started.

I think you're confusing "reformed" and "protestant."

[Kathleen in VA]

Maybe it would help if someone listed denominations that fall into the category of Reformed believers. I'm pretty sure that I have a general idea about what most denominations believe, but would find it interesting to see which ones are actually considered Reformed. I think that Presbyterians would be included in this group, but am not sure about others.

 

Anyone?

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

 

It can be a little confusing. Reformed does refer to those Protestant denominations that were born of the Reformation, and even more specifically to those who adhere to the teachings of John Calvin, hense the term Calvinist. That said, the main tenets of Reformed doctrine can be summed up in the Doctrines of Grace, also called the Five Points of Calvinism. However, I believe it is important to make a distinction between those who believe all of what Calvin taught (including infant baptism and the presbytery) and those who only believe the beforementioned Doctrines of Grace.

 

Reformed Baptists (those who believe in the Doctrines of Grace as well as believer's baptism), historically speaking, do not hold to the notion that they were born of the reformation but rather were a remnant of the true church that existed all through the centuries preceding what is thought of as the Protestant Reformation. The "reformed" designation is meant to point to their belief in the Doctrines of Grace, not that they were a product of the Protestant Reformation. The Waldensians, for example, existed pre-reformation and held to believer's baptism. They held to the Doctrines of Grace before Calvin articulated them later. Soooo, as you can see, just listing the denominations that are "reformed" isn't a simple task.

 

Some popular preachers who are not Calvnists but who hold to the Doctrines of Grace (TULIP) are John MacArthur (www.gty.org) and John Piper (www.desiringgod.org).

 

For an understanding of Baptists who adhere to the Doctrines of Grace but do not hold to Calvin's other teachings you can click on the link below for the London Baptist Confession of Faith.

[Teachaheart]

Maybe it would help if someone listed denominations that fall into the category of Reformed believers. I'm pretty sure that I have a general idea about what most denominations believe, but would find it interesting to see which ones are actually considered Reformed. I think that Presbyterians would be included in this group, but am not sure about others.

 

Anyone?

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

 

Orthodox Presbyterian Church

Presbyterian Church in America

United Reformed Church of North America

Christian Reformed Church

Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church

Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America

Reformed Church in the US

Reformed Church of Quebec

Free Reformed Church

Canadian Reformed Church

Heritage Reformed Church

Netherlands Reformed Congregations

Presbyterian Reformed Church

Free Presbyterian Church

 

There are several more, but this list is a start. The first four are among the more common or well-known Reformed denominations.

[silliness7]

Maybe it would help if someone listed denominations that fall into the category of Reformed believers. I'm pretty sure that I have a general idea about what most denominations believe, but would find it interesting to see which ones are actually considered Reformed. I think that Presbyterians would be included in this group, but am not sure about others.

 

Anyone?

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

 

Denominations that I am aware of that subscribe to the Doctrines of Grace are

Presbyterians: Orthodox and PCA which have splintered off of the mainstream Presbyterians.

Reformed: Christian Reformed, Dutch Reformed, Protestant Reformed, Reformed Baptists and United Reformed just to name the ones I'm familiar with.

Some Southern Baptists fall in this camp. I think John MacArthur is SBC but I can't swear to it. John Piper is some flavor of Baptist as well though not SBC.

Fellowship of Independent Reformed Evangelicals is an umbrella organization for reformed churches which are not part of a so-called denomination. I THINK but don't know for sure that this is a baptistic organization.

Obviously the Presbyterians and Reformed congregations differ with their Baptist brethren on baptism.

 

I'll let someone else vouch for the Lutherans. I don't know a thing about them except what I learned in history.

 

I think it would be interesting to know what homeschool materials and authors may be from a reformed slant. I know that Veritas Press is. I don't know who else.

[Hedgehogs4]

Like I said, I do not know how it is used today, but the Anglican church was a product of the reformation. Yes Henry the VIII was the King while the change came about, but there was a lot more going on then just him wanting a divorce.

 

This is just for anyone who finds it interesting by the way, not meant to be defensive or anything. (I just want to clarify as it is sometimes hard to tell on the internet. Oh, and I do have a bias as I am Anglican (I have lived in US and UK so it is easier to use the general term)

 

Henry was the second son and never meant to be King, he studied to become a priest.

 

Henry experienced first hand the corruption and politics that had taken root in some people within the Catholic church.

 

Henry became King when he was a teenager and his brother died. Catherine of Aragon was already Queen of England as she was married to Henry's brother.

 

The reformation was already happening and had already come to England. Many of his advisers believed in the reformation.

 

This all happened over years, not just for a quick divorce. He had an option to go back to the Catholic Church while he was married to his third wife Jane Seymour. Anne had been beheaded by this time, and Catherine had also died. As a widower he could have gone back to the church but he did believe in the reformation.

 

I find all of this history fascinating, I love seeing how things started.

 

and now you know...the rest of the story... WOW. wish i could say i knew that from reading on my own. i'll be doing a bit more research on that period of history, of that you can be sure.

 

besides that...we are anglican. we do not consider ourselves reformed. when i think of reformed, i think of the five points of calvinism and predestination, which is not heavily emphasized.

Edited August 1, 2010 by Hedgehogs4

[Dolphin]

Summer,

Thank you for starting this thread. I had kinda thought it was one thing, but it wasn't and now I know more. We never learn if we don't ask.

 

Kathleen, thanks for your last explanation, it made sense and I now get it.

 

Kelly,

It is a fascinating time in history, if you ever do want to read more about it PM me and I can refer you to some interesting books.

 

Cheers,

Nicole

[Teneo]

The reformed subscribe to the historic creeds and confessions like the Westminster, London, and Belgium confessions of faith, the Apostles and Nicean creeds, and the solas of the Reformation. Some denominations or groups would be the Reformed Baptists, pca, opc, urc among others. Think RCSproul,Tim Keller, Mike Horton, Jonathan Edwards, John Knox, Charles Spurgeon, John Piper, JI Packer...

[half-dozenroses]

This is from the site www.whitehorseinn.org:

 

"1. What was the Reformation?

The Reformation was really a number of people and events that all came together in the early sixteenth century in an effort to reform the Roman Catholic Church. Each reform movement tended to be localized by geography and centered on an influential pastor or prince. Two of the common concerns among all the reform movements were that the Catholic Church had strayed from the Bible's teaching on salvation and that the worship of the Church had become polluted by idolatrous practices. Eventually the reform movements in Germany, Switzerland, and England became powerful and influential enough to break away from the political power of the papacy, and secular rulers (kings, princes, local governments) established churches outside the control of the pope.

 

 

2. Who were Martin Luther and John Calvin?

Martin Luther and John Calvin were two of the most important leaders of the reform movements that resulted in the Protestant Reformation. Luther came first and was based in Germany. Calvin was a second generation reformer and was based in Switzerland. Both men were extremely influential in their day and helped create churches that still bear the imprint of their thinking.

 

 

3. What are the solas?

The solas of the Reformation were the principle slogans or issues around which the Reformation was centered. In Latin, "sola" means "alone" or "only." The five solas were:

• Sola Scriptura: Scripture alone is the source of our faith and life

• Sola gratia: salvation is grounded in God's grace alone, not any human merit

• Sola fide: salvation comes through faith alone not by any other means

• Solus Christus: salvation is effected in Christ alone, not by any other work or savior

• Soli deo gloria: salvation's purpose is for God's glory alone, not any other end

 

 

4. How is the Reformation relevant to the modern church?

More than just a historical curiosity, we believe that the Reformation recovered the essential tenets of Christianity. In our own day, those central tenets (the solas) have been lost to pragmatism and entertainment. The pursuit of a modern Reformation, then, will lead us to recover and apply the same truths in our churches and in our lives that enlivened the Reformation. We're not seeking a Golden Age, or the return to some pristine period of church history. Instead, we want to see the modern church take up the same slogans of the Reformation in ways uniquely suited to our time and place, and the challenges we face."

Edited August 1, 2010 by half-dozenroses

[johnandtinagilbert]

There are so many branches and denominations, but a significant difference between what I understand the modern term for Reformed stems from John Calvin and his TULIP. The "L" for limited atonement. In essence, it means Christ died for those predestined/chosen/elected who are therefore without the ability to deny God's gift of faith, i.e. they are supernaturally gifted with belief and could not deny it; while the Arminian belief of free will believes a person has free will and may reject the mercy of God, in terms of the gift of salvation (and generally believe the Chosen of God were the Jews, as God chose that nation to reveal himself to humanity).

 

One defines the blood of Christ as atonement for the elect, while the latter defines atonement as available for all who freely choose to acknowledge Jesus.

 

It is honestly a significant difference in doctrine and theology.

 

As for Anglican, yes, coming from the church of England, had a break away from Catholicism and were therefore called reformed, but with later leaders in the church, did not abide by TULIP.

 

Methodists, for example are Arminian; while Presbyterians are more often Calvinist. Baptists lean Arminian unless they are Reformed Baptists. Pentecostals lean Arminian, as are Holiness denominations and Episcoples (come from church of England).

 

Here is a link to Amazon where there are listing for many books that tell the history of denominations. I've been reading the first on the list this past week. If you enjoy church history and would like an understanding of denominational history, it's a great read.

Edited August 1, 2010 by johnandtinagilbert
used wrong word, thanks Lucinda!

[johnandtinagilbert]

 

 

 

Some popular preachers who are not Calvnists but who hold to the Doctrines of Grace (TULIP) are John MacArthur (www.gty.org) and John Piper (www.desiringgod.org).

 

 

That is an interesting distinction. I have never thought of anyone as following TULIP, but not being Calvinist. Do you know where they differ? I love theological information. Thanks for peaking my interest.

[johnandtinagilbert]

This is from the site

 

3. What are the solas?

 

• Sola gratia: salvation is grounded in God's grace alone, not any human merit

 

 

This is why Calvinists do not believe one chooses to accept Jesus Christ, b/c then it would be on their own merit, but rather that belief is a gift of grace given to the elect, by God.

[Avila]

This all happened over years, not just for a quick divorce. He had an option to go back to the Catholic Church while he was married to his third wife Jane Seymour. Anne had been beheaded by this time, and Catherine had also died. As a widower he could have gone back to the church but he did believe in the reformation.

 

I don't think that is historically accurate. The main reason Henry didn't go back to the Catholic Church was that he had dissolved all the monasteries and confiscated all the properties and money involved -- and he and the nobles he gave them to did NOT want to give them back. He decided that he should be the supreme authority and not the Pope, but that was a political and not a religious decision. He persecuted protestant sects as well as persecuting Catholics. He bought into what was politically expedient for him, but I have never seen any historical evidence or documentation that he was religiously a protestant.

Edited August 1, 2010 by Asenik

[Kathleen in VA]

That is an interesting distinction. I have never thought of anyone as following TULIP, but not being Calvinist. Do you know where they differ? I love theological information. Thanks for peaking my interest.

 

Well, I'm not a theologian or an expert on Calvinism, but I do know that Spurgeon, a Baptist, believed in TULIP but did not believe in much else of what Calvin taught. When I think of Calivinists I think of Presbyterians, infant baptism, and dominion theology. Calvin tried to establish a sacral society governed by Old Testament law in Geneva, Switzerland. I guess what I am saying is that Baptists who believe in the Doctrines of Grace pretty much limit their connection to Calvin to those five doctrines. Actually, they would argue that those doctrines are not Calvin's per se, but are simply scriptural and are there for anyone to find. Not much help, am I?

 

A good book on the subject is Are Baptists Reformed? by Kenneth H. Good.

[Athome]

Take a look at monergism.com It should help answer some questions.

[just Jenny]

Hi Summer, this is a long post so I am only addressing your first question, as I don't want to take up too much space. :)

 

Reformed Theology is also referred to as Calvinism. However, it was not John Calvin who proposed the five points.

 

I post the following excerpt from a book entitled The Five Points of Calvinism: Defined, Defended and Documented, by Steele, D. N., Thomas, C. C., & Nicole, R. (2009) It is available on Amazon.com, and is the most concise and clear presentation of the “Five Points of Calvinism” that I have come across, along with the Scriptural references for all the points.

 

“To understand how and why the system of theology known to history as Calvinism came to bear this name and to be formulated into five points, one must understand the theological conflict which occurred in Holland during the first quarter of the seventeenth century.

 

In 1610, just one year after the death of James Arminius (a Dutch seminary professor) five articles of faith based on his teachings were drawn up by his followers. The Arminians, as his followers came to be called, presented these five doctrines to the State of Holland in the form of a “Remonstrance” (i.e., a protest). The Arminian party insisted that the Belgic Confession of Faith and the Heidelberg Catechism (the official expression of the doctrinal position of the Churches of Holland) be changed to conform to the doctrinal views contained in the Remonstrance…Roger Nicole summarizes the five articles contained in the Remonstrance as follows: “I. God elects or reproves on the basis of foreseen faith or unbelief. II. Christ died for all men and for every man, although only believers are saved. III. Man is so depraved that divine grace is necessary unto faith or any good deed. IV. This grace may be resisted. V. Whether all who are truly regenerate will certainly persevere in the faith is a point which needs further investigation.”

 

The last article was later altered so as to definitely teach the possibility of the truly regenerate believer’s losing his faith and thus losing his salvation.

A national Synod was called to meet in Dort in 1618 for the purpose of examining the views of Arminius in the light of Scripture. The Great Synod was convened by the States-General of Holland on November 13, 1618. There were 84 members and 18 secular commissioners. Included were 27 delegates from Germany, the Palatinate, Switzerland and England. There were 154 sessions held during the seven months that the Synod met to consider these matters, the last of which was on May 9, 1619.

 

“The Synod,” Warburton writes, “had given a very close examination to the ‘five points’ which had been advanced by the Remonstrants, and had compared the teaching advanced in them with the testimony of Scripture. Failing to reconcile that teaching with the Word of God, which they had definitely declared could alone be accepted by them as the rule of faith, they had unanimously rejected them. They felt, however, that a mere rejection was not sufficient. It remained for them to set forth the true Calvinistic teaching in relationship to those matters which had been called into question. This they proceeded to do, embodying the Calvinistic position in five chapters which have ever since been known as ‘the five points of Calvinism.’ ” The name Calvinism was derived from the great French reformer, John Calvin (1509–1564), who had done so much in expounding and defending these views.

 

No doubt it will seem strange to many in our day that the Synod of Dort rejected as heretical the five doctrines advanced by the Arminians, for these doctrines have gained wide acceptance in the modern Church. In fact, they are seldom questioned in our generation. But the vast majority of the Protestant theologians of that day took a much different view of the matter. They maintained that the Bible set forth a system of doctrine quite different from that advocated by the Arminian party. Salvation was viewed by the members of the Synod as a work of grace from beginning to end; in no sense did they believe that the sinner saved himself or contributed to his salvation. Adam’s fall had completely ruined the race. All men were by nature spiritually dead and their wills were in bondage to sin and Satan. The ability to believe the gospel was itself a gift from God, bestowed only upon those whom He had chosen to be the objects of His unmerited favor. It was not man, but God, who determined which sinners would be shown mercy and saved. This, in essence, is what the members of the Synod of Dort understood the Bible to teach."

Edited August 1, 2010 by just Jenny
added spacing to make it easier to read

[Guest]

Ohhhhhhh Summer....that can be one can of worms on this forum.

 

Here's a thread to get you started, but do a search on the general board for reformed, Calvinism, Dark side...that should get you going in your search.

 

I bought Sproul's What is Reformed Theology; haven't read it yet, but just thought I'd throw that out there. Good luck.

 

 

I wasn't trying to open a can of worms, I just honestly didn't know. I was considering going back to Tapestry in the future, and after reading some Christians say that they weren't Reformed, I figured I better figure out what it means.

 

 

BTW....I posted this on the wrong board, sorry!

[Guest]

My brain must be slow tonight. I think it is going to take me a while to figure this out:tongue_smilie:. I guess I am just used to non-denominational teachings.

[i.love.lucy]

Well, I'm not a theologian or an expert on Calvinism, but I do know that Spurgeon, a Baptist, believed in TULIP but did not believe in much else of what Calvin taught. When I think of Calivinists I think of Presbyterians, infant baptism, and dominion theology. Calvin tried to establish a sacral society governed by Old Testament law in Geneva, Switzerland. I guess what I am saying is that Baptists who believe in the Doctrines of Grace pretty much limit their connection to Calvin to those five doctrines. Actually, they would argue that those doctrines are not Calvin's per se, but are simply scriptural and are there for anyone to find. Not much help, am I?

 

A good book on the subject is Are Baptists Reformed? by Kenneth H. Good.

:iagree:Thanks, Kathleen. You always say things so well.

 

Summer, don't feel bad that this is confusing. I think this came up in another recent thread...the fact that so many of us Christians understand very little about theology. I was so there, and still am to some degree (so much still to learn!) We had been going to XYZ Mega Bible Church down the street from us for YEARS and didn't even wake up to notice that we were not growing, not learning, had no real knowledge of theology, no real desire to be in God's word, no real prayer life. I'm not saying that's the experience that everyone has, but it was for us. After much study and influence in our lives by ministries like John MacArthur's Grace to You, and John Piper, and radio shows like Wretched Radio, etc, encouraging us to really understand hermaneutics and get into the bible deeply - we understand our theology so much better and changed churches. We are now at a "reformed" baptist church. But as Kathleen put it, we tend to not want to identify with all of what Calvin taught, just mostly the Doctrines of Grace or 5 Solas.

 

As for curriculum, I have not really found anything in any curriculum that either supports or contradicts all this. Veritas does come from a more reformed perspective but I can't speak to how that influences their materials. I just noticed from their catalog that there is a good amount about the Reformation and Luther, etc. And some awesome book lists in that catalog too!! I have used Heart of Dakota, and looked closely at Sonlight, and used lots of other misc material from a Christian perspective and none of it contradicted what I believe. Does that answer the question at all?:)

[Guest Beth Anne]

I am so embarrassed to ask this, but I really don't know. I have been a Christian all my life, and I always just considered myself a non-denominational Christian. I don't know all the differences, except between Catholic, Protestant, Latter Day Saints, etc. I do have some pretty strong beliefs, and now that I am teaching my children, I want to make sure I am picking the right curriculum that lines up with our beliefs. There has been some talk of Christians who are definitely not Reformed Christians.

 

Can anyone explain what Reformed Christianity is? How would this point of view change the way a curriculum comes across?

 

TIA!

from what I understand, reformed theology and Calvinism fit hand in glove. The site Kathleen gave gives a great definition of Calvinism. But I understand your question to be more one of - so how does this effect my life, homeschooling and training of my children. We base the way we think, interact and relate on our worldview. Although you may not have put a label on it, you stated you have strong beliefs. Beliefs grounded in God's Word form a solid foundation for all aspects of our lives. o.kay, now I am rambling a bit. Don't be ashamed if you don't know something. You are seeking to find out, your kids will catch your love for learning and be blessed.

[HSMom2One]

 

Methodists, for example are Arminian; while Protestants are more often Calvinist. Baptists lean Arminian unless they are Reformed Baptists. Pentecostals lean Arminian, as are Holiness denominations and Episcoples (come from church of England).

 

Some of this is very different from what I've been taught. I am a Methodist, but consider myself to be Protestant because I am neither Orthodox or Catholic. Make sense? There is also a distinct difference between Baptist and Arminian theology. Methodists, Nazarines, Salvation Army, Church of God, Quakers, Wesleyan are all examples of denominations that follow Wesleyan theology - which is strongly rooted in Arminian belief and practices. Many Baptists, on the other hand, view a few things differently than those groups. Most differences are related to the subjects of grace, selection and the topic of eternal salvation. I could be wrong, but I've always thought these points lean more toward Calvinism than Arminianism.

 

In the end, I really don't think these points matter that much as long as a person agrees on the basic tenants of the Christian faith as they are clearly laid out in scripture. I just find it to be interesting to learn about how the different denominations came to be.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

 

P.S. BTW, in my younger years as a Christian I was first a Baptist, then a Pentecostal and then finally became a Methodist! I've been through several theology classes over the years as I learned about each one.

Edited August 1, 2010 by HSMom2One

[HSMom2One]

I wasn't trying to open a can of worms, I just honestly didn't know. I was considering going back to Tapestry in the future, and after reading some Christians say that they weren't Reformed, I figured I better figure out what it means.

 

Summer, I am using TOG here at our house and don't find it (so far) to be too bent toward a certain theology. Like I said in another post on this thread, we are Methodists and have a slight difference in our theology than some of the Reformed groups. I believe that the Somervile family is Presbyterian, and that is their leaning in worldview, but I believe it would be easy to adjust points of theology if it comes up in the curriculum. As involved as a parent is using TOG, that shouldn't be too hard to catch and modify as needed. I hope it doesn't cause you to pass on an amazing curriculum like TOG when it might not even be a problem at all.

 

I don't think its a bucket of worms...we're all learning and growing together.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Laura Corin]

I found this

 

We believe in His realized redemptive death, and we understand the faithful truth that Christ did not die in vain for any man, thus He couldn't have died for every man or indiscriminately for all mankind. The wages of sin is death, and He died for the sins of His People who were known only to God from before creation. They are those who were pre-determined to be saved, for His own purposes. His death was sufficient for His people, that every sin that went to the cross with Him, was atoned for, providing a "real" true redemption of man from those sins (Matthew 20:28; John 10:15, 26; 17:9).

 

I had previously understood that, in the Reformed tradition, God is believed to choose whom to save. I hadn't quite put that together with the idea (which follows logically) that Jesus' death only cleared away the sins of those chosen people.

 

How do Reformed believers feel about the possibility that they might not be among the chosen?

 

Laura

[johnandtinagilbert]

Some of this is very different from what I've been taught. I am a Methodist, but consider myself to be Protestant because I am neither Orthodox or Catholic. Make sense? There is also a distinct difference between Baptist and Arminian theology. Methodists, Nazarines, Salvation Army, Church of God, Quakers, Wesleyan are all examples of denominations that follow Wesleyan theology - which is strongly rooted in Arminian belief and practices. Many Baptists, on the other hand, view a few things differently than those groups. Most differences are related to the subjects of grace, selection and the topic of eternal salvation. I could be wrong, but I've always thought these points lean more toward Calvinism than Arminianism.

 

In the end, I really don't think these points matter that much as long as a person agrees on the basic tenants of the Christian faith as they are clearly laid out in scripture. I just find it to be interesting to learn about how the different denominations came to be.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

 

P.S. BTW, in my younger years as a Christian I was first a Baptist, then a Pentecostal and then finally became a Methodist! I've been through several theology classes over the years as I learned about each one.

Lucinda, I put protestant and meant Presbyterian! Too sleepy for theology! Your description is much better!

Edited August 1, 2010 by johnandtinagilbert
spelling error

[johnandtinagilbert]

We believe in His realized redemptive death, and we understand the faithful truth that Christ did not die in vain for any man, thus He couldn't have died for every man or indiscriminately for all mankind. The wages of sin is death, and He died for the sins of His People who were known only to God from before creation. They are those who were pre-determined to be saved, for His own purposes. His death was sufficient for His people, that every sin that went to the cross with Him, was atoned for, providing a "real" true redemption of man from those sins (Matthew 20:28; John 10:15, 26; 17:9).

 

I had previously understood that, in the Reformed tradition, God is believed to choose whom to save. I hadn't quite put that together with the idea (which follows logically) that Jesus' death only cleared away the sins of those chosen people.

 

How do Reformed believers feel about the possibility that they might not be among the chosen?

 

Laura

Laura, having attended a Reformed church for some years, and leaving b/c I do not believe in limited atonement, but rather free will for all, your understanding is correct.

 

For the members of the church I attended, kind and loving people whom I miss often, the thought that they weren't chosen was always answered with, "I/we know in our heart."

 

It's a difficult distinction that many believe is a strong one, while others believe it to be a small, unimportant difference. NOT looking to partake in conversation leading to quarrels (see 2Tim 2:23), just sharing my experience.

Edited August 1, 2010 by johnandtinagilbert

[johnandtinagilbert]

I wasn't trying to open a can of worms, I just honestly didn't know. I was considering going back to Tapestry in the future, and after reading some Christians say that they weren't Reformed, I figured I better figure out what it means.

 

 

BTW....I posted this on the wrong board, sorry!

Summer,

FWIW, we are not Reformed, and use TOG easily. Again, it's another opportunity to teach our children the differences in the world of religion and why we believe what we believe. It has never been an issue.

[Kathleen in VA]

 

How do Reformed believers feel about the possibility that they might not be among the chosen?

 

Laura

 

 

Your question is a bit difficult to answer in just the way it is posed. A "reformed believer" will have the assurance that he is one of the chosen or he will not consider himself a believer in the first place. Before he experiences salvation, however, he may be sitting in a pew for years and yet not believe. In that case, he won't consider himself to be a believer. I think I know what you're getting at though - maybe - not altogether sure. I can only speak for myself but I imagine my experience is fairly common among reformed believers.

 

My understanding that God elected me or chose me came only after I was saved. Until I was saved, I would have considered salvation something I needed to do - a choice I must make. I only realized that it was God who chose me when I looked back on my salvation experience.

 

Very often before one is saved, there is the sense that we must choose God. We are called by a preacher to surrender to Christ, to follow Him, to choose Him. We feel at the moment of this calling that we have done that - chosen Christ. It is only afterwards, upon reflection, that we see the hand of God pulling us, directing us, wooing us to Himself and then we readily acknowledge that without God's working in us we could not possibly have chosen Him. We see this only after we are saved. When we do see it, we are even more amazed at the love and mercy and grace of God and we sense all the more our unworthiness and inability to please Him apart from Christ. This then causes us to love Him all the more. We recognize how very spiritually dead we once were and realize that it is God and God only who has regenerated our lifeless spirit - just as Jesus brought Lazarus back to life. We see that, just as we played no active part in our physical birth, we played no active part in our spiritual birth. We realize there is no good thing in us that God should choose us, but realize that for His own purposes He has and we rest in that.

 

It isn't as if we are sitting there listening to a preacher and thinking, "I am one of God's chosen so therefore I must be a Christian." It is rather more like "I am such a sinner and in need of a Savior. Oh, God have mercy on me." Then, as we read His word (see the first chapter of Ephesians for example) we recognize that, actually, it was God who knew before the foundation of the earth was laid, that we were His. It is a bit of a mystery and shall remain so until we are face to face with Him.

 

That said, it is possible to lack assurance regarding one's election and salvation. That lack of assurance is usually the result of a direct act of disobedience to what we know to be God's will - or in other words, sin. Sinning, especially if it is the kind of sin we imagine to be great, will cause a believer to doubt his salvation and lead to depression and anguish of soul. Then you could say there are times throughout a believer's life that he does not "feel" saved and lacks assurance that he is one of God's chosen or elect. Nevertheless, a true believer will eventually come full circle, as it were, and will by necessity come to a point of sorrow and repentance (this is the P part of TULIP). It is faith in Christ's righteousness, His perfect life, not our own, that causes us to cry out to Him for mercy and forgiveness. When we remember that we are nothing apart from Him, that our hope lies only in His finished work on the cross on our behalf and His resurrection from the dead and conquering of sin and death, then we regain that sense of assurance. Assurance comes from resting in Christ's righteousness. Does that make sense?

[chris's girl]

I am a baptist, but not of reformed theology. I have a reformed friend who assumed I must be of Armenian theology, but I am not.

I believe (and most Baptists I have ever met in my life) in the availability of salvation to all (1Timothy 2:6 "Who gave Himself a ransom for all men") like Armenians believe, but also in the permanence of salvation ("no man shall pluck him out of my father's hand" John 10:29) like those of the reformed faith.

[mhg]

I think we're getting tripped up in the two "reformations" -- England's and Europe's. England: Henry VIII (b/c the pope wouldn't facilitate yet another one of his marriages) the King began the ANGLICAN church and this split off the the CATHOLIC church. Anglicans (comparatively to USA Episcopal) are not reformed.

 

Reformed denominations: Presbyterian (PCA), Presbyterian (USA)---which PCAs loudly proclaim their difference from as USA is FAR more liberal / less conservative, Reformed Baptist Churches, OPC, and some non-denomination churches. You'd have to see where a particular church falls regarding two major doctrines: covenantal vs. dispensationalism

and whether they ascribe to the doctrines of grace (election) as these are the two HALLMARKs of reformed believers.

 

Reformed Christians (which is not the term we use to describe ourselves -- we would say that we are Christians. Theologically we would say that we assent to the doctrines of Grace (clearly delineated by John Calvin thus the name "Calvinist").

 

We are characterized by adherence to COVENANTAL theology and to the doctrines of grace (election/acromyn TULIP summarizes these doctrines).

T == TOTAL DEPRAVITY

U == UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION

L == LIMITED ATONEMENT

I == IRRESISTABLE GRACE

P == PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS

 

Calvinists came out of the EUROPEAN REFORMATION. Recall Martin Luther's posting his 95 Thesis on the doors of the Catholic Church.

Thus the birth of Lutheranism.

Are reformed Christians LUTHERANS? NO because Calvinists felt that Lutherans did not go far enough in their departure from the Catholic church.

 

I would recommend the book "What is Reformed Theology?" by R. C. Sproul.

 

Some well known believers who ascribe to the doctrines of grace:

John Piper

Jonathan Edwards

Charles Spurgeon

John Knox

The Puritans

Hudson Taylor

John MacArthur (although MacArthur does not hold to covenantal theology; he's a dispensationalist).

 

There are two main deviations among reformed believers:

those who hold to covenantal theology and those who hold to dispensationalism.

 

Reformed believers are protestants (along with other well-known protestant denominations: Baptist, Independent Baptist, Methodist, Assembly of God, Pentecostal). (Mormons aka "Latter Day Saints" and Jehovah's witnesses are not protestants and are tooooooooo different from any protestant religion in their theological tenets especially regarding the NATURE of GOD to be remotely similar).

 

I know this sounds tough to get, but it's really not that tough once you sit down and read a short book such as Sprouls.

 

Just for food for thought: look in the Bible at John 17:9.

Why doesn't Jesus pray for ALL the world?

 

There are MANY examples of such in the Scriptures (like Romans chapters 5 - 14). I find that reformed theology treats these passages much more EASILY than other denominations.

 

I'm leaning toward TOG b/c I've heard it is reformed.

I doubt the 5 points of calvinism are discussed much within the TOG curriculum.

 

Good luck sorting through all this info.

[silliness7]

I am a baptist' date=' but not of reformed theology. I have a reformed friend who assumed I must be of Armenian theology, but I am not.

I believe (and most Baptists I have ever met in my life) in the availability of salvation to all (1Timothy 2:6 "Who gave Himself a ransom for all men") like Armenians believe, but also in the permanence of salvation ("no man shall pluck him out of my father's hand" John 10:29) like those of the reformed faith.[/quote']

 

Not to muddy the waters, but I've heard Baptist theology professors label themselves as 3 or 4 point Calvinists. So I guess it is possible to not be full-on reformed and not full-on Arminian.

[Laura Corin]

Your question is a bit difficult to answer in just the way it is posed. A "reformed believer" will have the assurance that he is one of the chosen or he will not consider himself a believer in the first place.

 

Can I try to rephrase what you've said to see if I understood?

 

If you are reformed (that doesn't sound right...) and you believe in the God of your church, then that makes you one of the elect? The fact of your belief means that you have been chosen, because belief comes from God, rather than being a human choice? Is that right?

 

Another question: is there any explanation for the geographical distribution of the elect - more in the US than in India, for example?

 

Tone is hard to put over - please don't be offended by my questions. I'm really just trying to understand.

 

Laura

Edited August 1, 2010 by Laura Corin

[Kathleen in VA]

Can I try to rephrase what you've said to see if I understood?

 

If you are reformed (that doesn't sound right...) and you believe in the God of your church, then that makes you one of the elect? The fact of your belief means that you have been chosen, because belief comes from God, rather than being a human choice? Is that right?

 

Another question: is there any explanation for the geographical distribution of the elect - more in the US than in India, for example?

 

Tone is hard to put over - please don't be offended by my questions. I'm really just trying to understand.

 

Laura

 

I'm not at all offended, Laura. The only way we learn is to ask.:)

 

Please remember that I am not an expert, not a theologian. I am a little worried I might say something that could not be entirely biblically correct. That said, I believe you've got the main idea of what I said. Ephesians 2:8-9 says, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Faith is a gift of God given by His grace. Reformed believers would say that "works" can also include the idea of choosing. We believe that our ability to choose is an effect of God granting us grace to do so. Because it is entirely a work of God, He alone receives all the glory.

 

As far as geographical distribution goes, only God knows who are His. Revelation 5 says that the redeemed will come from "every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation." I'm not at all sure that there are more believers in the U.S. than in India.

[Laura Corin]

 

As far as geographical distribution goes, only God knows who are His. Revelation 5 says that the redeemed will come from "every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation." I'm not at all sure that there are more believers in the U.S. than in India.

 

You're right - I don't know enough about India.

 

The UK: not many Christians and, of them, most attend churches which would not fit the description of reformed. Is it possible to be saved through a church which is not reformed? So, for example, one attends a non-reformed church, following the scriptures to the best of one's abilities, but believing (because one has been so taught) that salvation comes through a personal choice, rather than God's election. Because that belief is mistaken, by reformed standards, does that mean that the faith is also mistaken and therefore not from God? Or does God choose people who subsequently end up in the 'wrong' churches or no church at all?

 

Thanks again,

 

Laura

[chris's girl]

I don't understand the statement "why didn't Jesus pray for ALL men?".

The Bible says "for God so loved the WORLD". That's all men. It says that's why He sent His Son. I believe it's 1Timothy 2:4 that says He desires that ALL men come unto Him. He Himself tells us to "pray for the salvation of all men everywhere".

But I do agree with Kathleen in VA that I am not at all sure that there are more believers in the US than in India. People who say they are of a "Christian religion" and truly saved people are not necessarily one in the same. Also, the Bible says that before the Lord comes the Word must first be "published in every tongue", so who knows how many non-Western people still have yet to hear the gospel that will eventually come to Christ?

[Teachaheart]

You're right - I don't know enough about India.

 

The UK: not many Christians and, of them, most attend churches which would not fit the description of reformed. Is it possible to be saved through a church which is not reformed? So, for example, one attends a non-reformed church, following the scriptures to the best of one's abilities, but believing (because one has been so taught) that salvation comes through a personal choice, rather than God's election. Because that belief is mistaken, by reformed standards, does that mean that the faith is also mistaken and therefore not from God? Or does God choose people who subsequently end up in the 'wrong' churches or no church at all?

 

Thanks again,

 

Laura

 

I'm sure Kathleen will give a much better explanation, but the short answer is that salvation is not limited to reformed churches. There are true believers in reformed churches, non-reformed churches, and no churches.

[Aloha2U]

I am so embarrassed to ask this, but I really don't know. I have been a Christian all my life, and I always just considered myself a non-denominational Christian. I don't know all the differences, except between Catholic, Protestant, Latter Day Saints, etc. I do have some pretty strong beliefs, and now that I am teaching my children, I want to make sure I am picking the right curriculum that lines up with our beliefs. There has been some talk of Christians who are definitely not Reformed Christians.

 

Can anyone explain what Reformed Christianity is? How would this point of view change the way a curriculum comes across?

 

TIA!

 

Summer,

 

I'm a believer (born again @ 22yo, now 33yo?) who fellowships with other nondenominational Christians at a local Calvary Chapel. I only very briefly scanned a few of the responses you've received... so whilst your questions may have already been answered, I'm going to share the following link in the hopes that it will be of some help to you and/or anyone who wants to read it.

 

Calvinism, Arminianism & The Word of God

A Calvary Chapel Perspective by Chuck Smith

 

In the love of Christ,

 

:001_smile: Melissa