Calling all "Christian Evolutionists". Or would that be "Evolutionist Christians"?

[Greta]

For my own information and also as a spin-off from another thread, I was wondering if you could all share any resources you know of (websites, books, anything) by Christians who accept evolution.

 

Thanks!

[asta]

The Vatican has written a doozy:

 

Scientific Insight into the Evolution of the Universe and of Life

 

(in case anyone is wondering - the RCC has never been in conflict with evolution as far as I know)

 

 

asta

[Julie in Austin]

I don't know if you want a specific flavor of Christianity, but this is a Mormon biology professor:

 

http://sciencebysteve.net/

[Greta]

The Vatican has written a doozy:

 

Scientific Insight into the Evolution of the Universe and of Life

 

(in case anyone is wondering - the RCC has never been in conflict with evolution as far as I know)

 

 

asta

 

Galileo saw nature as a book whose author is God in the same way that Scripture has God as its author.

 

I like that. Thank you asta!

[Greta]

I don't know if you want a specific flavor of Christianity, but this is a Mormon biology professor:

 

http://sciencebysteve.net/

 

Any and all "flavors"! :001_smile: Thank you!

[Violet Crown]

There's the Darwin Catholic blog, which has some articles on evolution and intelligent design. Mr. and Mrs. Darwin were both homeschooled.

[Guest Cindie2dds]

Watching this with interest. Thanks for starting this thread!

[plansrme]

http://oldearthcreationism.blogspot.com/

 

This is a blog written by an old earth creationist mom/theology professor. It is very informative.

 

Terri

[patchfire]

 

The Language of God, Francis Collins. I listened to an interview of him on Science Friday some time ago as well; you could try searching NPR's website, maybe?

[plansrme]

There are a number of resources available at www.reasons.org (go to "Shop"), Hugh Ross' website. They are solidly in the "old earth creation" camp.

 

Terri

[Julie in Austin]

Any and all "flavors"! :001_smile: Thank you!

 

In that case, here's another one I really liked:

 

http://www.byub.org/talks/Talk.aspx?id=1400

[Greta]

Thanks, everyone, for all the great replies. This will keep me busy for some time. :001_smile:

 

The Language of God, Francis Collins.

 

This looks great. My library has it, so I'm going to go pick it up this afternoon.

[WishboneDawn]

Confused here...I thought Old Earth creationists followed either creationism or intelligent design NOT evolution.

 

For the record, if I'm anything I'm just a Christian. No special label. I do accept the theory of evolution but I'm not giving up the general term of "Christian" to those who don't. :)

[ChristyH463]

This blog isn't specifically about evolution, but it seems to be a recurring topic for him. He's a theology student who I guess I would call a progressive Christian.

 

http://www.arnizachariassen.com/ithinkibelieve/

 

Also, this is not exactly what you asked for, but I've been following a very interesting discussion on Amazon about whether/how to teach evolution if you homeschool.

 

http://tinyurl.com/39uplga

 

Also, someone else mentioned Hugh Ross. He's fabulous. I am a pretty liberal, progressive Christian in Texas, where there really are no other liberal, progressive Christians (or they're all in hiding! lol) so I tend to seek these things/people out online.

[ChristyH463]

Confused here...I thought Old Earth creationists followed either creationism or intelligent design NOT evolution.

 

 

 

This is confusing to me, as well. The only thing I can think is that there's the Old Earth camp and the New Earth camp, with Old Earthers coming a step closer to believing evolution certainly than the NE Camp would. Perhaps being in the OE Camp allows for the belief in evolution as God's mechanism?? *shrugs* Hopefully someone else will explain better.

[Mom-ninja.]

The Vatican

[Radish4ever]

Excellent! THanks

[Guest Cindie2dds]

Perhaps being in the OE Camp allows for the belief in evolution as God's mechanism?? *shrugs* Hopefully someone else will explain better.

 

 

This is what we believe. I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive.

[Violet Crown]

One additional resource: An article explaining why Intelligent Design is not compatible with the Thomistic philosophy of traditional Catholicism.

[ChristyH463]

This is what we believe. I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive.

 

ITA. This is exactly what I believe, and I've never understood why, for some people, they are in fact seen as being mutually exclusive.

[asta]

One additional resource: An article explaining why Intelligent Design is not compatible with the Thomistic philosophy of traditional Catholicism.

 

I sometimes wonder what can't be solved by reading Aquinas...

 

 

a

[Mom22ns]

ITA. This is exactly what I believe, and I've never understood why, for some people, they are in fact seen as being mutually exclusive.

 

I've never understood either. I had never heard of YE until I started homeschooling, not from any church I have attended, not from my family. I was surprised by the fight over a topic that seemed so unimportant to me.

 

I believe God did it. It is not for me to define how.

[Wayfaring Stranger]

Father Tom Hopko (an Orthodox Priest) is currently going through a series on Darwin and Christianity on his podcast "Speaking the Truth in Love". He is up to 15 parts but most of them stand alone and can be listened to without starting from the beginning. It is fun to listen to him, he is a good speaker.

 

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/hopko

[chubbyhugs]

Only a Theory: Evolution and the Battle for America's Soul, and Finding Darwin's God, both by Kenneth R. Levine who is the co-author of the Prentice Hall Biology textbook. He is a Roman Catholic.

[Violet Crown]

I sometimes wonder what can't be solved by reading Aquinas...

 

That totally belongs on a signature line. I may steal it.

[Mrs Mungo]

Confused here...I thought Old Earth creationists followed either creationism or intelligent design NOT evolution.

 

For the record, if I'm anything I'm just a Christian. No special label. I do accept the theory of evolution but I'm not giving up the general term of "Christian" to those who don't. :)

 

There is danger in labels, isn't there? :)

 

Part of the problem is in how people define evolution. I hear and see anti-evolution stuff all of the time where you can tell the person has zero understanding of evolution and what it is.

 

For me, it's easier to say what I don't believe.

 

I don't believe: Through a cosmic soup of amino acids proteins were created and sparked with life by accident and through a series of spontaneous, beneficial genetic mutations we have everything on earth from whales to tulips. I don't think that is statistically possible, even over millions of years.

 

I also don't believe that the earth and everything on it is less than 6,000 years old and that man and dinosaurs co-existed.

 

What I believe is somewhere in between those two dichotomies.

[Greta]

Father Tom Hopko (an Orthodox Priest) is currently going through a series on Darwin and Christianity on his podcast "Speaking the Truth in Love". He is up to 15 parts but most of them stand alone and can be listened to without starting from the beginning. It is fun to listen to him, he is a good speaker.

 

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/hopko

 

Oh, this is great, thanks for pointing this out! I love listening to Fr Hopko. I've mostly listened to "The Names of Jesus" series, but I did download the first few episodes in this series as well - just hadn't gotten far enough to realize this was part of it.

[Greta]

For the record, if I'm anything I'm just a Christian. No special label. I do accept the theory of evolution but I'm not giving up the general term of "Christian" to those who don't. :)

 

I agree! Sorry, didn't mean to imply that we belong in a separate category or anything like that. I guess "Calling all Christians who accept evolution" would have been a better thread title.

[Greta]

Just want to thank everyone who has replied. I've got all of these links bookmarked and am looking forward to exploring.

[Guest Cindie2dds]

So sorry to hijack this thread, but I think its very important to be able to profess one's faith and science as relevant and valid at the same time. I love these discussions! :D

 

ITA. This is exactly what I believe, and I've never understood why, for some people, they are in fact seen as being mutually exclusive.

 

Me neither. ;)

 

I believe God did it. It is not for me to define how.

 

Yes!

 

There is danger in labels, isn't there? :)

 

Part of the problem is in how people define evolution. I hear and see anti-evolution stuff all of the time where you can tell the person has zero understanding of evolution and what it is.

 

For me, it's easier to say what I don't believe.

 

I don't believe: Through a cosmic soup of amino acids proteins were created and sparked with life by accident and through a series of spontaneous, beneficial genetic mutations we have everything on earth from whales to tulips. I don't think that is statistically possible, even over millions of years.

 

I also don't believe that the earth and everything on it is less than 6,000 years old and that man and dinosaurs co-existed.

 

What I believe is somewhere in between those two dichotomies.

 

I couldn't have said it better. :)

[plansrme]

In general response to those who mentioned that they've never understood why Christianity and evolution are thought to be mutually exclusive (forgive me if I have paraphrased incorrectly) and the young/old earth creationist issue, I want to point out 2 things:

1. I am grossly over-simplifing here, but there is a difference in creationism and evolution. I and many others on this board, I am sure, believe God created and designed the earth and used evolution to get us to this point.

 

2. To get a flavor of the thinking of those who believe a belief in evolution and Christianity are mutually exclusive, read Ken Ham's blog entry here:

http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2010/07/08/problems-in-the-homeschool-movement/

 

Ken Ham suggests that curriculum fairs screen all of the products sold at their fairs for evolutionary content. I find the very suggestion disturbing, especially his use of quotes around "Christian," a clear implication that one cannot believe in anything other than a literal six-day/young earth creation story and still be a Christian.

 

Terri

[Greta]

You might find Father Thomas Hopko's series on Darwin interesting; Ancient Faith Radio. It was not what I expected and it got my attention.

 

Patty, it's so lovely to "see" you here! :001_smile: Father of Pearl mentioned this too, and I am so excited to listen to it. We are using Fr Hopko's four volume series The Orthodox Faith in my class on Wednesday nights, and I really love those podcasts of his that I have listened to. He is an amazing teacher.

[asta]

Here is kid's version:

 

God made/or was the Big Bang.

 

Out of the Big Bang came the primordial soup (replicated in the Miller-Urey experiment).

 

Out of the primordial soup, through time directed by God, came the universe as we know it and the basis for life.

 

Kid personally does not believe that we give time (or God) enough credit. God need not be hasty: billions or trillions of years are but a blink of his or her eye. God is outside of time.

 

 

Obviously, kid is an outlier.

[Mrs Mungo]

Asta, tell your child I totally agree. :)

[nono]

I went to a parochial (Catholic) high school, and there was never a conflict. As one teacher put it: "Creation is the summary. Evolution is the best theory we have so far for the details. Our study of science is how we work our way closer to understanding how God did it." I think I'll use it with my kids if the question arises.

 

It sometimes seems that representatives of both sides of the issue right now can get too staunch so that the last part (figuring it all out) isn't progressing as it should. And, that's too bad. I'm figuring that as we go along in our schooling, I'll be having to do some editorializing, as theistic evolution isn't a viewpoint from which most materials are written.

[AuntPol]

http://steamdoc.s5.com/sci-nature/

[Tress]

Here is kid's version:

 

God made/or was the Big Bang.

 

Out of the Big Bang came the primordial soup (replicated in the Miller-Urey experiment).

 

Out of the primordial soup, through time directed by God, came the universe as we know it and the basis for life.

 

Kid personally does not believe that we give time (or God) enough credit. God need not be hasty: billions or trillions of years are but a blink of his or her eye. God is outside of time.

 

 

Asta,

 

I like kid's version, especially the last part about not giving God enough credit.

 

But please ask kid to insert one step between Big Bang and the primordial soup. You need to have stars and at least one planet (Earth) in order to have an actual location for the primordial soup.

 

I'm an astrophysicist and it always bothers me that people go from Big Bang right to evolution on Earth.....you really, really, really need a lot of things to happen between those two :D.

[Guest Cindie2dds]

Asta, I like the kid's version. Great to see things from young eyes.

[asta]

Asta,

 

I like kid's version, especially the last part about not giving God enough credit.

 

But please ask kid to insert one step between Big Bang and the primordial soup. You need to have stars and at least one planet (Earth) in order to have an actual location for the primordial soup.

 

I'm an astrophysicist and it always bothers me that people go from Big Bang right to evolution on Earth.....you really, really, really need a lot of things to happen between those two :D.

 

To which he replies:

 

"Oh! I'm getting my soups mixed up - first came the quark soup (that the elements were formed in), then the primordial soup."

 

 

 

 

(needless to say, all of this is news to ME, who wasn't even aware there was such a thing as a quark soup...)

 

Thanks for replying, Tress.

 

 

a

[Greta]

I went to a parochial (Catholic) high school, and there was never a conflict. As one teacher put it: "Creation is the summary. Evolution is the best theory we have so far for the details. Our study of science is how we work our way closer to understanding how God did it." I think I'll use it with my kids if the question arises.

 

 

I love this! Thanks so much for sharing it.

 

Asta, I love your kid's version of events as well.

 

:001_smile:

[jenniferlee]

Here is good blog by a Christian evolutionist (or however you want to say it):

 

http://www.blog.beyondthefirmament.com

 

he has a little video series on there called science and Christian education

 

also, here is a link to the blog of a very good friend of mine who is Christian and totally accepts evolution. It's not about education exactly, but it answers a lot of questions about the cross-over of science and faith. He used to be a pastor and actually lost his pastorate over this issue, so he has a very interesting

story.

 

cliff-martin.blogspot.com

 

Jen

[Dolphin]

I haven't figured out the quotes yet, but I agree about the summary. We look at when the bible was written. When God first sent his stories down to us, Jesus had not lived on earth. He was explaining what he did from the beginning, not with all the information that we have now. We present things in different ways depending on where we are in life. For example, if your three year old asks you where babies come from, you would explain it very differently than if you were lucky enough to not ever have to address the issue until your child was 14. We look at the story of creation that way, it is a story that God used to explain how everything came to be, to people that no longer had first hand knowledge of how mankind was started. He has given us enough information to navigate this lifetime, and the rest we will know when we join him.

 

I hope that was not to rambling.

[mhg]

I agree with Mungo on this thread.

I don't have my bible here with me, but I love those two verses in Job where God responds something like, "Where were you when I set the foundation of the earth?" And another where God says, "Where were you when I made the Leviathan?" (isn't the leviathan that ancient enormous/now-extinct sea whale??).

 

It's embarrassing to me, as a Christian, to hear other Christians stuck on this 6000year old earth. Why does belief in an old earth threaten anything about Christianity? If anything it should enhance it.

 

I don't see where the OLD EARTH and CREATIONISM and EVOLUTION can't mesh together just fine. Darwin was a professing Christian, wasn't he?

 

As just one measly example. It's a FACT that there's a type of fish which was once a regular fish and then lived later lived exclusively in caves and thus lost their eyeballs; how can this be disputed? To deny that this is apparently a form of evolution of one of God's creations is silly.

 

God started it all and set into motion certain natural/biological laws one of which is evolution. His creatures evolve. (This is why, even today, some adults are BORN without wisdom teeth and tonsils and appendices ---- we no longer NEED them biologically).

 

Does this mean we came from apes? NO.

Does this mean that some soupy (to borrow from Mungo) concoction gave rise to all the amazing intricacies of nature? Absolutely NOT.

Could He have made a creature that looked like a cross between an ape and man? Yes and behaved somewhat man-ish (like an animal man).

 

There's many a mystery which Christians have to be ok with leaving unresolved. All I know is that when God wanted to put a man (WITH A SOUL and IN HIS IMAGE----- which is different than an ape-man) He created Adam and Eve and breathed into them a breath of life and they were unique creatures with SOULS and possessed the unique/new ABILITY to relate to their CREATOR and EXIST on a higher thinking plane (in GOD's IMAGE).

 

At least this is how I see it IMO.

 

I too am looking for a science curriculum that accepts this and doesn't state that if you accept anything other than a "young earth" then you are somehow unbiblical/unChristian.

 

I haven't looked into Apologia yet but does it adhere to young earth only?

Edited July 31, 2010 by mhg

[mcconnellboys]

What about The Language of God, by Francis Collins, head of the human genome project? Or Edge of Evolution, by Michael Behe, biochemistry prof at Lehigh?