Kinda blows blaming vaccines...

[Lolosoli]

Can chemicals as well as the environment have an impact and affect our genes as humans....both now and in the genetic make up of future children?

 

If the answer to that question is yes then the answer to vaccines having some sort of possible link can also be yes.

[asta]

Y

I have a cousin whose daughter is amazingly fairy like and unusual and self contained. Hard to explain. She would probably have been dx something or other (and fmaily members have suggested she be tested), but instead has been able to thrive in a Waldorf school setting and with very patient parents. I dont think there is anything wrong with her, personally, even though she is "different", and I wonder if anything is actually "wrong" with many of these dx kids. Maybe this is just normal for them- for you- and nothing is "wrong" at all. Maybe its a genetic advantage in some way to be quirkie in these times. I don't know.

 

 

Actually, this is how the majority of people on the spectrum view themselves.

 

For the most part, we view NTs as weird and confusing. ;)

 

 

a

[pdalley]

No, I understand the biology fine.

 

I wrote the title specifically to be provocative. As an Aspie, I get sick and tired of hearing that I am the way I am due to vaccines, and that I am some how "cureable" with chelation, diet, blah blah blah blah.

 

One of my sisters is an autie, the other siblings are not on the spectrum. My father and one of his siblings were likely spectrum, but not the others. Both generations grew up within 2 square miles of one another. Four of my nieces and nephews are spectrum, but not the others. Two are living in that same aforementioned 2 square miles, but two are not. That doesn't bode well for vaccines being the causative agent, and it doesn't explain the environmental aspect, unless the second two are outliers.

 

 

a

 

:iagree:

 

In our family - it's genetic. We had undiagnosed Aspies clear back to the Pre Civil war era. (I really don't think it's 'typical' for a widow to insist on dragging her piano over the swamps of Florida in a move from western SC - by all accounts she was fixated on her piano and music. The rest of our tree is full of engineers and the like)

 

I think there many be lots of causes but I've never bought the MMR thing - not for us - we've all been tested and have no gluten issues. And I'm don't associate with the local autism support group because I got sick of being told I was not a good mother because I wasn't trying to 'cure' my kids. I simply don't think they need to be 'cured'. I think - like any child - they need to be given tools to be successful functioning adults. Like any child they have their own challenges and gifts. Different - not less than.

 

This study is exciting to me. Perhaps some Dr's will see the 'snowflake' that each child is.

[pdalley]

This is a very interesting perspective. I want to thank McConellboys for her post as well. Very thought provoking.

 

I'm interested in the original quote where it said each person with an ASD dx has their own unique form. A dear friend of mine has been fighting with dr's for years trying to get help for her son. He is now in an autism study at the local elementary school but his dr's steadfastly hold to their belief that he doesn't have autism for one reason alone: he is friendly and loveable. He hits every other mark but because of the social factor, they're holding their ground. It's ridiculous, frankly.

 

Oh they'd swear my oldest was not on the spectrum then. He's very friendly and loveable - except the one percent of the time he's in fullblown meltdown. I find that very frustrating. If I had a dime for every time I heard - 'he doesn't look autistic' - I'd be rich enough to make a dent in the national debt.

 

The above is one of the biggest reasons we home school. The public school system here did not want to believe that his meltdowns were due to his autism. More to the point - they really just didn't want to deal with it. His third grade year his teachers treated him like he had leprosy.

[junepep]

The link between Autism and the MMR vaccine was always false. The Doctor that 'found' the link perpetrated a well funded fraud and abused the children in his care to boot. He's finally lost all credibility.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8493753.stm

(look under see also for additional information regarding his case).

 

I agree with other posters who said that overall the level of toxins are harming our environment and ourselves. I would also say that the incidence of genetically inherited diseases seems to be up in the general population across industrialized nations, but this particular vaccine isn't the culprit for autism.

[Margaret in GA]

:iagree:

 

In our family - it's genetic. We had undiagnosed Aspies clear back to the Pre Civil war era. (I really don't think it's 'typical' for a widow to insist on dragging her piano over the swamps of Florida in a move from western SC - by all accounts she was fixated on her piano and music. The rest of our tree is full of engineers and the like)

 

I think there many be lots of causes but I've never bought the MMR thing - not for us - we've all been tested and have no gluten issues. And I'm don't associate with the local autism support group because I got sick of being told I was not a good mother because I wasn't trying to 'cure' my kids. I simply don't think they need to be 'cured'. I think - like any child - they need to be given tools to be successful functioning adults. Like any child they have their own challenges and gifts. Different - not less than.

 

This study is exciting to me. Perhaps some Dr's will see the 'snowflake' that each child is.

 

 

I think you sound a like a mother who is doing what is best for her children and I applaud you. No one understands our kids like we do. But I had to say this..... just because you don't test for gluten issues doesn't mean you don't have one. The most (and some believe the only) reliable test is elimination and provocation.

 

Margaret

[pdalley]

I think you sound a like a mother who is doing what is best for her children and I applaud you. No one understands our kids like we do. But I had to say this..... just because you don't test for gluten issues doesn't mean you don't have one. The most (and some believe the only) reliable test is elimination and provocation.

 

Margaret

 

Right, and we did GFCF for two solid years. Absolutely no change. So that's why we don't believe we have gut issues. I do certainly believe it exists as I know people who do have Celiac and Gluten issues that wreak havoc in their lives.

 

I've always held to the idea that only a parent knows what is best for their child or how to treat their child. I was sort of taken aback when I didn't get that same feeling from our local support groups. I have seen vaccine injured children - one was a darling girl I tended in our church nursery for years. It can and does happen and there was a direct causation in that case - it caused much more than autistic like symptoms.

 

We know we make Aspies. We know which things will help our kids and if something else helps other kids - awesome. I don't think people who chose to follow a certain course of treatment are doing something awful at all - I just want the same respect for my choices for my kids.

 

But it's not just this way around here in the autism support area. I'm friends with a mother of a boy with Down Syndrome and she got the same feeling from that support group - which IMO is sad. I dream of starting a support group that is supportive of the idea that treatments and causes and our kids are individual - your mileage may vary and that's fine.

 

However, I lack the people skills to make that one happen. :)

[tex-mex]

Actually, this is how the majority of people on the spectrum view themselves.

 

For the most part, we view NTs as weird and confusing. ;)

 

 

a

When I lived in a bo-dunk rural town, our ASD family members were just labeled, "eccentric". :D Today, it's like... "Whaddya know? We have a label!"

[tex-mex]

Oh they'd swear my oldest was not on the spectrum then. He's very friendly and loveable - except the one percent of the time he's in fullblown meltdown. I find that very frustrating. If I had a dime for every time I heard - 'he doesn't look autistic' - I'd be rich enough to make a dent in the national debt.

 

The above is one of the biggest reasons we home school. The public school system here did not want to believe that his meltdowns were due to his autism. More to the point - they really just didn't want to deal with it. His third grade year his teachers treated him like he had leprosy.

YES!! We have friends who say this about our beloved son. Then they realize in the midst of a meltdown.... um... hey, you may be right. Gee, he really seemed normal. Aaaaaaauuugh. ;)

[tex-mex]

 

As far as it growing so rapidly...don't you think part of that is just increased diagnosis?

Bingo. Modern technology helps. Population has always been there since time immemorial. :glare:

[SproutMamaK]

YES!! We have friends who say this about our beloved son. Then they realize in the midst of a meltdown.... um... hey, you may be right. Gee, he really seemed normal. Aaaaaaauuugh. ;)

 

Add my middle son to the list. He's NOTHING like my older son (who's much more severely on the spectrum), and it very sociable, etc, so people often use him as their imagnary poster boy for "autism isn't real... you should see this one kid I know who's parents say he has autism....."

 

And then they meet My Hyde. ;)

[Niffercoo]

YES!! We have friends who say this about our beloved son. Then they realize in the midst of a meltdown.... um... hey, you may be right. Gee, he really seemed normal. Aaaaaaauuugh. ;)

 

 

We experience this with our kids, too! My husband and I just smile at each other knowingly! ;)

[AnitaMcC]

Actually, this is how the majority of people on the spectrum view themselves.

 

For the most part, we view NTs as weird and confusing. ;)

 

 

a

 

Yep... just ask my Ds15... he will tell you that people are idiots. He is not fond of people in general-LOL. We have tried to instill in all of our kids to be proud of who they are. Ds15 took that literally of course-LOL.

 

I do not believe there is anything wrong with people on spectrum or with ADHD. I do not want to fix me or my kids. Without our unique perspective on things... life would be very boring and I believe that much of the technology, we enjoy in our daily lives, would not be here without people like us.

 

We don't need to be "cured". We just need help in learning to utilize our individual uniqueness, let our strengths shine through our challenges. To be able to handle what makes us uncomfortable without being overwhelmed at the constant bombardment that we experience on a daily basis. We struggle in so many ways that it is exhausting. When we find what works well for ourselves then we are able to accomplish so much more.

[everettrj]

I simply don't think they need to be 'cured'. I think - like any child - they need to be given tools to be successful functioning adults. Like any child they have their own challenges and gifts. Different - not less than.

 

This study is exciting to me. Perhaps some Dr's will see the 'snowflake' that each child is.

 

I could not agree more!! :D

[everettrj]

I do not believe there is anything wrong with people on spectrum or with ADHD. I do not want to fix me or my kids. Without our unique perspective on things... life would be very boring and I believe that much of the technology, we enjoy in our daily lives, would not be here without people like us.

 

We don't need to be "cured". We just need help in learning to utilize our individual uniqueness, let our strengths shine through our challenges. To be able to handle what makes us uncomfortable without being overwhelmed at the constant bombardment that we experience on a daily basis. We struggle in so many ways that it is exhausting. When we find what works well for ourselves then we are able to accomplish so much more.

 

seriously just to 'hear' someone else say this, is enough relief and comfort to bring tears to my eyes

[asta]

seriously just to 'hear' someone else say this, is enough relief and comfort to bring tears to my eyes

 

Google "crazymeds".

 

 

a

Edited June 12, 2010 by asta

[ElizabethB]

For the most part, we view NTs as weird and confusing. ;)

 

 

That reminds me--I read one of Temple Grandin's books where she was comparing most middle school girls to aliens (or something along those lines) and I was totally with her, I cracked up so much my husband made me read it aloud. He agreed with the quote, he said they were aliens (or whatever term she used.)

 

By the time I understood middle school girls, I was in high school!

 

What do you think of the TV/rain study?

[asta]

What do you think of the TV/rain study?

 

Well, we all grew up in a place where the average rainfall was less than 8"/year and we weren't allowed television except for a few things like Ben Casey, the Outer Limits, Godzilla, and Night Gallery.

 

Come to think of it, maybe the latter did have something to do with it... :lol:

 

 

a

[ElizabethB]

Well, we all grew up in a place where the average rainfall was less than 8"/year and we weren't allowed television except for a few things like Ben Casey, the Outer Limits, Godzilla, and Night Gallery.

 

Come to think of it, maybe the latter did have something to do with it... :lol:

 

 

a

 

Yes, I'm sure it was all Godzilla's fault somehow, it always is!

[asta]

Yes, I'm sure it was all Godzilla's fault somehow, it always is!

 

The poorly done voice-overs or the radiation?

 

 

a

[6packofun]

Then, um, we can't really KNOW that the rate of autism isn't higher (or the same, or lower) because diagnostic rates/success have changed over time, right?

[pdalley]

That reminds me--I read one of Temple Grandin's books where she was comparing most middle school girls to aliens (or something along those lines) and I was totally with her, I cracked up so much my husband made me read it aloud. He agreed with the quote, he said they were aliens (or whatever term she used.)

 

By the time I understood middle school girls, I was in high school!

 

What do you think of the TV/rain study?

 

I adore Temple Grandin. And I'm the same way about middle school girls - do not understand them - did not understand them. I think that's why I wound up with three boys.

 

The HBO movie about her is exceptionally well done. The way they were able to illustrate her thinking in pictures was amazing. And Claire Danes really did a great job.

[Mergath]

Just want to add to the discussion that my dd has one of these genetic anomalies. She has 16p11.2 deletion syndrome, which leaves her with a 1 in 3 chance of having autism. She just turned two, is fully vaccinated, and so far, no signs of autism. And for people with this deletion, the autism is usually early-onset, 12-18 months, so we're most likely in the clear.

 

I think that trying to demonize vaccines is a waste of time. We need to look at the environmental factors that kids interact with every day. I mean, kids today watch hours and hours of tv, are sterilized with soap and cleansing cloths and germ-killing lotion within an inch of their lives, and eat food that, for the most part, isn't actually food, but more chemicals. Assuming there even is an environmental cause, I would guess that kids fifty years ago were at less of a risk for autism because they ate real food, played outside, and didn't spend half their lives staring at screens.

[Mommyof4ks]

Just want to add to the discussion that my dd has one of these genetic anomalies. She has 16p11.2 deletion syndrome, which leaves her with a 1 in 3 chance of having autism. She just turned two, is fully vaccinated, and so far, no signs of autism. And for people with this deletion, the autism is usually early-onset, 12-18 months, so we're most likely in the clear.

 

I think that trying to demonize vaccines is a waste of time. We need to look at the environmental factors that kids interact with every day. I mean, kids today watch hours and hours of tv, are sterilized with soap and cleansing cloths and germ-killing lotion within an inch of their lives, and eat food that, for the most part, isn't actually food, but more chemicals. Assuming there even is an environmental cause, I would guess that kids fifty years ago were at less of a risk for autism because they ate real food, played outside, and didn't spend half their lives staring at screens.

 

True! Don't forget about all of the pesticides and cleaning chemicals that we use on everything these days as well as formaldehyde and benzene which is in so many things that we come in contact with daily. They are all possible triggers.

[MeganW]

Honestly, it always hurts when people assume that just because you believe in the vaccine / austim link, you are an uninformed idiot.

 

I've posted our story before, copied here:

 

I was one of those who really thought it was irresponsible and ridiculous NOT to get your kids vaccinated according to the government's recommendations. And then 2 of my kids ended up being those whose futures were sacrificed for the greater good. And it was all for nothing. They could have gotten those exact same vaccinations on a slower schedule and possibly ended up avoiding the problems we have. One of my biggest regrets as a parent.

 

I think for most kids, vaccinations are pretty safe. But there are kids (like preemies) whose immune systems just can't handle the overload of getting 4 or more doses of major infections at once. And unfortunately you really don't know until too late whether your kid is one of those who will be affected or not.

 

It is very difficult to prove the link b/c you have to have had an MRI or CAT scan about 2 weeks after the vaccination, and just because most victims don't have the medical evidence to prove it doesn't mean that their medical issues are not vaccine-related. There is a big difference between the truth and what is provable beyond a doubt.

 

After my triplets got their MMR (and several other vaccinations), I noticed major personality changes in two of them. MAJOR. OVERNIGHT. At first, I thought, well, they don't feel good because of the shots, give it time. Then I thought maybe it was due to teething. Then I thought maybe it was a sudden onset of the terrible twos. After maybe 9 months, I realized that these personality changes were permanent. Of course by then it occurred to me to wonder why it happened to two out of three at the exact same time, but by then it was too late.

 

Both of these children have had full autism evaluations by the SC Dept of Disabilities' Autism Division. My kids had been watched by Early Intervention from the beginning due to being born 9 weeks early, so we had a lot more records than most people. The Division also did review hours of family videotapes, and they were unable to find ANY signs of autism from the tapes before the MMR shots. None. Even our Early Interventionist commented that although she didn't believe in the autism/vaccination link before that, she fully believed that my kids' issues were directly related to the vaccinations. As do I, obviously.

 

The stupid thing is that there IS a happy medium - you don't have to be a no-vaccine person or a fully-vaccinating on the schedule person. I'll tell you what I have done with child #4, and what I wish I had done with the others. ONE vaccination at a time so you don't overload the immune system beyond what it can handle, and no MMR before age 3, when the blood/brain barrier closes. You can still get fully vaccinated by age 6 or so, and not risk your child's brain. It's a win-win!

 

As for why there aren't tons of studies proving the link, well, who would fund them? Not the pharmaceutical companies who manufacture the vaccines. Not the government, who has a vested interest in everyone being vaccinated so we don't have epidemics. If there are some casualties, well, the govt's job is to look out for the majority. So who? The fact is that the vast majority of vaccine studies are performed by these two groups. Clearly neither is independent!

 

And please don't just assume that everyone who believes in this link is a total idiot who is uninformed and just running around like Chicken Little screaming and creating chaos about nothing. I consider myself to be above average intelligence (IQ in the 120s), I earned 1200+ on the SATs (old scale), graduated from Tulane with a degree in economics, and Clemson with a degree in accounting. I earned my CPA in less than a year after graduation. Brilliant, no. But reasonably analytical and intelligent and facts-focused, yes.

 

Google "Bailey Banks Vaccine Court" if you are interested in more info where the federal Vaccine Court agreed that Bailey Banks' autism was caused by the MMR.

 

--------------------------------------

 

In our case, we were not allowed to leave the house other than for doctor's appts for the first YEAR of my kids' lives and for the second winter of their lives, because even a minor cold is often deadly to babies born very prematurely.

 

Given that a cold could do that much damage, how does it make any sense that being given doses of several of these major diseases simultaneously wouldn't do something worse? Again, obviously one of those things I really wish I'd thought through more thoroughly beforehand.

 

---------------------------------------

[OrganicAnn]

If there are lots of different genetic deletions, then it could point to environmental issues that affect the mother or father prior to or at conception. There could be different chemicals in our food, water, air that could be contributing to the problem.

 

A similar idea is with spina bifida. They were looking at rates of spina bifida and found that one European country had a higher rate than the others. The tested the population and for the gene that contributes to the possibility was found in 50% of the population in all European countries and the US. So why was the incidents so high in the one country? They used rather high levels of chlorine to decontaminate the water in that country. They found chlorine increased the incident of spina bifida. We don't regulate chlorine in the US for water purification, we just put the onus on women to take folic acid.

[asta]

Honestly, it always hurts when people assume that just because you believe in the vaccine / austim link, you are an uninformed idiot.

 

I don't believe anyone in this thread has intimated that.

 

I believe the majority of this thread has actually been written by people who themselves are on the spectrum and are discussing how they view the world and their ASD-ness.

 

As an aside, although I realize this is not possible for people with very young children, I always tell people who ask me "what is it like to live on the spectrum" to ask their own children how they feel about their own life. Especially if they cannot talk, as lack of verbal skills does not equal lack of communication skills.

 

Many of us, despite feeling as if we're living on Pluto in regards to social issues, feel quite... superior is not the right word... gifted? blessed? with our given abilities. In my case, my hyper-focus and OCD has made me an absolute kick-arse researcher. It drives my husband nuts to find me on the computer at midnight "looking up just one more thing" to help someone out whom I don't even know, but I know - I just know - that this is why I behave as I do. I have never met another person in the social sciences/mental health field who acts the way I do who isn't also on the spectrum. And I feel I fill a needed position in the great scheme of things. Just as Steve Jobs creates the next. great. thing. Or Richard Feynman dunked an o-ring in a glass of ice water and figured out the Challenger disaster. Yes, the world needs box thinkers. But without those of us outside of the box, there is much that would never be accomplished.

 

 

asta

[Peela]

And I feel I fill a needed position in the great scheme of things. Just as Steve Jobs creates the next. great. thing. Or Richard Feynman dunked an o-ring in a glass of ice water and figured out the Challenger disaster. Yes, the world needs box thinkers. But without those of us outside of the box, there is much that would never be accomplished.

 

 

asta

 

Thank goodness you feel like you do, Asta, and I think you are spot on.

 

 

I have just come home from my severely autistic SIL's 50th b'day. I have never seen her so happy, and normally she is very challenging to be around. She was beautiful, shining, and surrounded by people who love her, even though she is quite difficult to communicate with.

My 2.5yo nephew was there too, and he has been diagnosed autistic and his parents are incredibly stressed out about it. I know they are probably just beginning a long journey.

People are people- everyone is whole and unique, not some whole and normal and others less than because of a diagnosis.

[asta]

And if any of you have ten minutes and want your head to explode, read this:

 

 

There Is No Link Between ADHD And Organophosphate Pesticides

 

(stick with him, he rolls around a bit to get to the point)

 

 

asta

[Entropymama]

Love this thread, it's so interesting to see everyone's POVs.

 

I agree with the PPs who say the rise in autism is connected to a better dx level. (Better? Hmm. You decide.) I took my 18 m/o to his check up the other day and they had me fill out an autism questionnaire. Never had to do that before and he's my 4th, so clearly the docs are looking out for it more. I noticed that many things on that checklist were things I wouldn't have mentioned if he had been doing or not doing them.

 

I do have a nephew who is autistic. I don't know much about the spectrum, but he is not one of the 'quirky' ones, I have a feeling 20 years ago he would have been labeled retarded, as a PP noted.

 

Something to muddy the waters :tongue_smilie:: I read a study a few years ago linking early onset autism to excessive TV viewing during the first 2 years of life. The study claimed that spending too much time watching a 2 dimensional image messed with the development of the part of the brain that registers 3 dimensional images and somehow that was a trigger... I found it to be a fascinating study (but only preliminary). If anyone else has heard of this and knows a link to an actual journal article or study, can you post it? Otherwise just ignore me because I have no facts to back myself up. :001_smile: However, the rise of autism could be linked to the rise in early TV viewing and the rise in availability of cable.

 

Having said that I think there are many causes and triggers, and no child is the same as any other.

[mcconnellboys]

I'm confused by his premise from the get go. Of course the bulk of the population of kids are not suddenly being exposed to higher levels of pesticides, per se. But organophosphates are in a bunch of things, like pet flea collars, sprays, etc., like mosquito sprays and bombs, etc. that average urban kids may be exposed to daily. And the pesticides on the fruits and vegis they eat can't be just washed off, or even cut away with the peeling.....

 

And these pesticides don't get washed out of the system daily, weekly, or monthly, either. They can build up in the system over time, as far as I know.... If a large proportion of the adult population is showing increased levels of pesticides in their bloodstreams (from a wide variety of sources that are just out there in the environment), then children may certainly be affected by such environmental pollution, even if you're taking care not to use such products yourself, in your own home or yard....

[asta]

I'm confused by his premise from the get go. Of course the bulk of the population of kids are not suddenly being exposed to higher levels of pesticides, per se. But organophosphates are in a bunch of things, like pet flea collars, sprays, etc., like mosquito sprays and bombs, etc. that average urban kids may be exposed to daily. And the pesticides on the fruits and vegis they eat can't be just washed off, or even cut away with the peeling.....

 

And these pesticides don't get washed out of the system daily, weekly, or monthly, either. They can build up in the system over time, as far as I know.... If a large proportion of the adult population is showing increased levels of pesticides in their bloodstreams (from a wide variety of sources that are just out there in the environment), then children may certainly be affected by such environmental pollution, even if you're taking care not to use such products yourself, in your own home or yard....

 

That was the premise of the article.

 

That people are writing BS articles and passing them off as science. That someone could cherry pick data from one chem company (as opposed to all the sources you mentioned above) and say SEE! I TOLD YOU SO!

 

You kind of have to get in the groove of that guy's style of writing. Psychiatrists think strangely.

 

 

a

[Mergath]

Something to muddy the waters :tongue_smilie:: I read a study a few years ago linking early onset autism to excessive TV viewing during the first 2 years of life. The study claimed that spending too much time watching a 2 dimensional image messed with the development of the part of the brain that registers 3 dimensional images and somehow that was a trigger... I found it to be a fascinating study (but only preliminary). If anyone else has heard of this and knows a link to an actual journal article or study, can you post it? Otherwise just ignore me because I have no facts to back myself up. :001_smile: However, the rise of autism could be linked to the rise in early TV viewing and the rise in availability of cable.

 

Having said that I think there are many causes and triggers, and no child is the same as any other.

 

I've always wondered about the TV thing. Awhile back, I read somewhere- don't have the slightest idea where- that there was a study where they tested the brains of infants watching TV programs designed for young children, and that the brain activity was similar to a person having a seizure. Of course I read that while pregnant with my dd, so I spent the first couple years of her life being the TV police at my house, lol. Now that dd is two, I've lightened up a little and let her watch some cartoons in the morning, and I let my dh watch the news once in awhile. But, in light of her diagnosis, I'm really, really glad I've been so strict about it. Just in case.

[smalltown mom]

For me, this supports findings that are already out there. Having this gene, or any gene for an auto-immune problem, for instance (and I think autism is autoimmune related), makes you predisposed to environmental triggers that will turn on certain adverse functions within those genes.

 

I think it's not widely understood that the protein "machines" that combine and recombine in myriad ways within our DNA may be affected by nearly any sort of chemicals with which they come into contact. The normal ways in which those proteins work can be entirely disrupted by contact with various chemicals coming into the body from outside.

 

Scientists studying just the tiny fruit fly, for instance, have found that something like 4 proteins on one gene can interact, combine, and recombine in over 10,000 different ways. These combinations make a vast difference in the workings of the organisms, affect ability to do things, affect defects, affect poisoning of the system vs. proper functioning, etc.

 

Plant scientists are finding the genetically modified organisms inserted into various plants are triggering new, never before seen viruses to be released from the genes of these plants. We just don't know all the ways chemicals can affect our genes or what the results may be.....

 

There's a whole micro-world of information we haven't even begun to tap. Playing around with chemicals, inserting random things into the human body; genetically modifying organisms when we don't begin to understand the repercussions, is all just so much playing with fire.....

 

Because I happen to believe in a living God, I tend to say, "Only God can make a Tree..... a lizard..... a flower..... a horse..... a heart..... an eye....."

 

And what I mean by that is that we humans are doing with life on earth the thing many are tempted to do when they are trying to put together a new piece of equipment: tinker around with the parts first and maybe read the directions later if there are parts left over and the thing won't work.....

 

We do not comprehend inner space in nearly enough detail to be doing such tinkering. The result of this tinkering is an ever increasingly polluted pool of life forms: new viruses and bacteria we have trouble controlling, plants that don't act in expected ways; humans with an increasing number of "disabilities" and an explosion of auto-immune problems within our population......

 

SOMETHING in our environments is causing the increase in problems humans are experiencing today. I don't care what the something is, I just want it identified and corrected..... The alternative is that our population will increasingly become "disabled", and what do we do when the healthy caretakers age and die off? Who takes care of our population then? This is not a survival of the fittest scenario. Everyone will be affected sooner or later, when the right chemicals hit their system, or those of their children, or grandchildren....

 

:iagree:

[smalltown mom]

deleted by poster

Edited June 15, 2010 by smalltown mom

[nmoira]

Claim by medical director of Homefirst:

 

 

But thousands of children cared for by Homefirst Health Services in metropolitan Chicago have at least two things in common with thousands of Amish children in rural Lancaster: They have never been vaccinated. And they don't have autism.

 

"We have a fairly large practice. We have about 30,000 or 35,000 children that we've taken care of over the years, and I don't think we have a single case of autism in children delivered by us who never received vaccines," said Dr. Mayer Eisenstein, Homefirst's medical director who founded the practice in 1973. Homefirst doctors have delivered more than 15,000 babies at home, and thousands of them have never been vaccinated.

 

However, Homefirst is hardly run by uninterested, unbiased parties:

 

Here are a couple links:

 

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/08/more_antivaccination_nonsensebut_not_fro.php

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-autism-doctor-eisenstein-may22,0,3826791.story

Edited June 15, 2010 by nmoira
didn't notice the post I was responding to had been deleted... sorry

[pdalley]

Homefirst is hardly run by uninterested, unbiased parties:

 

Here are a couple links:

 

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/08/more_antivaccination_nonsensebut_not_fro.php

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-autism-doctor-eisenstein-may22,0,3826791.story

 

 

Oh gosh, I remember reading about the Lupron stuff. That guy is scary to me. I know about risk vs. reward but there is no way in heck I'd consider Lupron an acceptable risk.

[smalltown mom]

Yes, actually I noted that immediately after posting, so that's why I deleted it!! :)

[nmoira]

Yes, actually I noted that immediately after posting, so that's why I deleted it!! :)

I'll edit. :)

 

Sorry, I didn't notice you'd deleted the post.

Edited June 15, 2010 by nmoira