Tell me if this paragraph sounds okay...(cc) from a letter attached to our new will.

[FaithManor]

This is from a letter we are attaching to our new will. Our old will stipulated my sister, the one currently getting divorced from her P.T.S.D., B.P.D., dishonest, con artist, husband, as the guardian for our minor children. Given what she is going through, we don't think she is a good choice at this time. My parents would want the boys, but dad has a heart condition and hasn't retired yet so I think this would be too much for him. Dh's mother is in her mid-late seventies and so we are concerned about that.

 

We've tossed around friends from church. Many of them already have as many children as we do and may not be thrilled about adding so many to their number. I suppose we could still explore this option.

 

Dh's sibs are NOT A POSSIBILITY! They aren't good people and the boys would be treated like big burdens and their inheritances squandered. My other sib has a wife with Bipolar disorder who refuses to consistently take her meds so unfortunately, she swings widely between being really loving and really witchy.

 

We have prayed about it but haven't had any direction to choose someone else.

 

So, for the time being, we have chosen our 19 year old dd for their guardian. She is just an absolutely awesome young adult and very level headed. My mother would help with the day-to-day care of the boys while she finishes school but we think that R is the best choice to be the one making the Big decisions about her brothers' care and schooling. We have chosen our senior pastor for executor of the estate with a very dear friend and elder from our church as the reserve executor. Both men are absolutely excellent finance men and great fathers. But neighter would be in a position to take the boys into their homes. So, at least they would be able to help her manage the funds and give good parenting advice.

 

Here is the paragraph from the letter in with our will which would explain to her why we choice to entrust her with this very heavy responsibility. Please read it and tell me what you think.

 

"

You probably feel pretty overwhelmed. You’re only 19 and facing raising your brothers. We wouldn’t have picked you if we didn’t have the utmost faith in your abilities. There will be plenty of money for you to use for your education and for your living expenses so you don’t need to worry about that. We chose Pastor C as the executor because he is so good with finances and he will be able to guide you in your spending and savings habits. Please continue your education. Uncle D and your grandparents will help you with the day to day care of the boys. We just want you in charge because we know your heart and the spectacular choices you always make. We can't imagine that anyone could love them more than you do and we are convinced you will do an amazing job in trying circumstances. "

 

Does that sound okay? Is it enough of a pep talk? I'd ask my IRL friends (and that is probably what I should be doing) but they will all get emotional and cry. I don't know that I would get an objective opinion and I don't want anyone to feel guilted into saying "we'll take the boys" when if they had time to seriously consider it when not emotional, would otherwise not be inclined.

 

Faith

[Jennifer in MI]

That brought tears to my eyes. I pray she never has to read it.

 

Does she know this in advance? If not, I think I'd have a conversation with her about it so she knows. I was named guardian of my younger siblings while I was still in college, but my mom and dad discussed it with me. They explained their reasoning and reassured me that there'd be enough money. I was SO honored!!!

[Jean in Newcastle]

:iagree:

[2squared]

The letter sounds fabulous.

 

You may want to add a letter to the judge so he/she knows why you think your dd is the best choice and why some others aren't the best choice. The judge will make the final decision to guardianship taking your wishes into consideration, but it's still his/her decision.

 

These things are so difficult, aren't they?

[HappyatHome]

I am the oldest of five children and when I turned 18 my parents named me as the guardian of my siblings in the event that they both died. I was so honored and the thought did not overwhelm me at all.

 

We made the same decision when our ds turned 18. He was fine with it.

 

I think the letter you wrote will be something she could look back on for encouragement if needed. It's lovely.

 

Hopefully it will never be needed though.

[LibraryLover]

Our oldest is the designated guardian of his sibs. He knows it, wants it, and my whole family knows it's non -negotiable. We have my dh's best friend as financial advisor. We have a privaste school chosen for the youngest. It's pretty dang clear. I would talk to your dc so she knows.

[Cera]

I would definitely let her know you are considering it and ask her if she is willing to be named their guardian before doing so. She might not feel up to it should something happen to you which would a) leave the kids in limbo with everyone fighting over what happens to them or b) leave her taking on a responsibility she doesn't want out of deference to her dead parents.

 

It is an awfully big burden for a 19 year old, no matter how level headed.

[MamaT]

We recently did the same thing, changing guardianship to our oldest son. When we had a discussion with him asking him about it, he was surprised we had waited that long to change it. I couldn't imagine them with anyone else. I agree with the other posters, you should talk to her about it. I think your paragraph to her is perfect.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Are you both about to die? You wrote, "you are only 19". That assumes that she is this age NOW and that NOW is when you are planning to die.

 

Did I miss something?

 

And, of course, I hope that you discussed this with your adult daughter!

[FaithManor]

Thanks everyone!

 

We did talk with dd tonight. Her comment was, "Amtrak better not lose the two of you!" Then she hugged us and told us that she was honored to accept the responsibility. Apparently, she likes that we have that much faith in her.

 

We have written a letter explaining this to the powers that be but according to the lawyer, the will is solid and a judge would be hard pressed to come up with a good reason to over-ride our decision. Just in case, we did appoint an acceptable co-guardian who would be willing to share some of the parenting load, just not all of it.

 

So, with that morbid detail taken care of, I can now pack for our trip if I can get dh to be serious about what he wants to wear on the return leg. Ratty fishing cap, favorite fishing shirt with bleach spots, falling apart deck shoes, and shorts that have seen better days are not acceptable. He's being pretty silly so I think this is a sign that he's giddy about his vacation. I shall hide his Red Green Mountain Man outfit and pack clothing I approve of...Look out Ken, Barbie will now dress you accordingly!

 

Faith

[Renee in NC]

The letter sounds fabulous.

 

You may want to add a letter to the judge so he/she knows why you think your dd is the best choice and why some others aren't the best choice. The judge will make the final decision to guardianship taking your wishes into consideration, but it's still his/her decision.

 

These things are so difficult, aren't they?

 

Really? I thought the whole point of the will is that you gave guardianship to someone. Does a judge still get the final say?

 

I thought judges only got involved if you *didn't* name someone.:glare:

[FaithManor]

Oh, and about mentioning her age in the letter....as the years go by, I will update the letter and remove anything that doesn't apply.

 

No, we aren't planning on "popping off" on this trip. However, after the events of our last big trip we no longer take this kind of thing lightly! We had two traumatic flights on that trip and as soon as we got home, we made a new will. This one should have been updated before now, we've been irresponsible in letting it go, but with our anniversary trip now 36 hours away, it seemed really important to make the necessary changes.

 

Faith

[BeckyFL]

:iagree:

That brought tears to my eyes. I pray she never has to read it.

 

Does she know this in advance? If not, I think I'd have a conversation with her about it so she knows. I was named guardian of my younger siblings while I was still in college, but my mom and dad discussed it with me. They explained their reasoning and reassured me that there'd be enough money. I was SO honored!!!

[ChristusG]

Just curious, how are you creating this will? I was just wondering if you are using a computer program? Having it notarized? Going through an attorney? We need to update ours. We just used a computer program, non-notarized, etc.

[IsabelC]

I think that is great that you have discussed the issue with your adult dd and come to a good understanding. But what about the other family members you mentioned? Would any of them be expecting to be nominated guardians, and if so, would they be happy to support your dd in the role or is there a chance that she could feel undermined by their attitudes? In which case, would it be an idea to either discuss with the relevant people or write them a letter as well, asking them to give dd their full support should the situation ever arise?

[mommytobees]

The letter sounds fabulous.

 

You may want to add a letter to the judge so he/she knows why you think your dd is the best choice and why some others aren't the best choice. The judge will make the final decision to guardianship taking your wishes into consideration, but it's still his/her decision.

 

These things are so difficult, aren't they?

 

I 100% agree with this!!!

 

Really? I thought the whole point of the will is that you gave guardianship to someone. Does a judge still get the final say?

 

I thought judges only got involved if you *didn't* name someone.:glare:

 

I've done A LOT of looking into this in different states. Our wills are a military will, so good in any state.

 

In MOST states, anyone in your immediate-extended family has the right to sue for custody of your children at your (both parents) death/ incapacity. Immediate-extended (oxymoron, IMHO) family is normally defined as Father's parents and siblings and Mother's parents and siblings. But, some states allow other further extended family ties to pursue custody too.

 

Let's give an example, the OP stated Dh's siblings are NOT an option. What if Dh's Brother and SIL decided they wanted custody. They can prove that they can proved a _good_ home for the boys. A judge's decision then becomes not ONLY "can elder sister provide a safe & loving home" but "can elder sister proved a BETTER home than Uncle and Auntie."

 

Now, this is different based on the state you are living in. BUT, in several states there are case law going against the parent's stated intent in their will.

 

Me, personally.

 

My will is VERY VERY VERY VERY defined. My dh's will refers to my will (in case I die first). We have 5 different sets of people listed as guardians of our children, with a specific order AND that the children stay together AND that the children are homeschooled if possible.

 

Plus, I have specific direction in my will (again, with my dh's will giving reference to my will--- should my dh die after me, but before our youngest hits 18, then MY will has to accompany his will. HE will have a new will written, with MY will as a "written statement" of intention---or something legalese like that). My will states that : person A will have ZERO contact with all children. (then it says why); person B should be allowed visitation but not custody (then it says why); person C should be allowed to have supervised visitation ONLY (then it says why).

 

HTH,

Kris

[FaithManor]

We have a lawyer - also our financial advisor - handling the document. My questions posed here have just been concerning the letter that we are leaving behind for dd. We did discuss this with her and she has commanded us "Thou Shalt Not Die", but is honored to take care of her brothers.

 

We have stipulated that in the event DD needs some help, we have a second guardian named who is an absolutely great person but due to circumstances in his life, did not feel he could take the boys full-time. He is willing to share custody so the lawyer has hashed that language out as a back-up plan. The language is very specific because we have no intention of allowing dd to be sued by relatives. Thankfully, our county family court system is very, very conservative. If there is a will, they honor it. Only an extreme case in which family members could prove that a named guardian was completely incompetant or a felon, would the judge overturn the parents' choice. So, the lawyer is pretty confident of this.

 

My sister will be pretty upset and we will have to talk with her. She would really want the boys. But, given what she is going through in her divorce and the fact that her ex is totally mentally unstable and always wants to be around my sons, it is best that they not move to her state. As it is, the soon to be ex is far enough away that he is not a concern. My brother knows he would not be chosen due to his situtation. Plus, my niece (the only one of his children that is still a minor) would go to some personal friends of theirs and not us. They were very open about the fact that they could never send their dd to live with us because we require too much school work and we won't let her do anything...they are completely permissive parents and my niece is slowly going out of control. So, not a good situation and he would never sue to get the boys.

 

That leaves his mom who is in her mid-70's and partly deaf....she would never attempt to overturn our will and I can't imagine a judge choosing her for guardian. My folks would want them and we will take to them about this. They have health problems and both still work long hours in my dad's business. They'd be hard pressed to raise three boys at this time in their life. They'll be great help to dd but they can't be full-time for certain. I think they know this. Dh's siblings wouldn't want the kids. Well, they would if they knew how much money the kids would have in trust and if they thought they could get at the money. My two sisters-in law would vie for the opportunity to steal the money and then leave the boys in military school somewhere. We have virtually nothing to do with them and it is doubtful they'd even take the time to attend our funeral. Oh, dh's brother, the wimp with the unbelievably witchy wife, might come to the funeral...dh's sister never would. Since they aren't privvy to our financial information, they'll stay just as far away as they can because they would not want any responsibility. DD has been fore-warned to never let them know how much money there is in trust. Dh's mother will not know this information either so that she can't let it slip to her other children.

 

Thanks a bunch for all the advice. I have to go muck out after my horse, feed some pigs, quack at my ducks, and pack.

 

Faith

[angela in ohio]

The letter sounds fabulous.

 

You may want to add a letter to the judge so he/she knows why you think your dd is the best choice and why some others aren't the best choice. The judge will make the final decision to guardianship taking your wishes into consideration, but it's still his/her decision.

 

These things are so difficult, aren't they?

 

I agree. We have included a letter explaining our choice. There are reasons against some of the obvious choices, and we want to make sure those are known if we aren't there to share them. There are also people who we don't let have unsupervised access to our dc for specific reasons, and we want that to continue after we are gone. We have told the potential guardan, but we don't want them suing for visitiation.

[2squared]

Really? I thought the whole point of the will is that you gave guardianship to someone. Does a judge still get the final say?

 

I thought judges only got involved if you *didn't* name someone.:glare:

 

Nope, the judge has the final say. My dh is a lawyer, and he reminds me that our wishes are just that - our wishes. The judge will certainly put a high value on our wishes, but he/she has the ultimate responsibility for the care of the children.

[FaithManor]

Okay, I'm back from cleaning horse stalls and read 2squared's response.

 

So, Dh and I are frantically trying to write another letter explaining in great detail why his sibs are completely out of the question as guardians. I have also included documentation about my brother's wife who has bi-polar and is a great person when she's on meds but hasn't taken meds in two years because "she doesn't have a problem, it's every one else's problem." I have her exact words in several emails she sent me so I have included copies of those. Hopefully, that will prevent my brother from getting in line for guardianship. I've then written up about my sister, her soon to be ex who has P.T.S.D. and a host of other issues and how she is not leaving the area he is in so we have strong fears that he will attempt to gain access to the boys. He always wanted sons, has two daughters that are completely messed up because their mother is schizophrenic and not on medication and their father is.....well...as you can see, in no mental shape to be raising kids, and when he was on his meds, was a wonderful uncle. So, we've included a no visitation whatsoever clause and instructed dd to get a restraining order should he ever come up here and try to see the boys.

 

I am worried about Dh's sibs though. They are money grubbing slimes. My sisters in law would do anything for more money. Our children absolutely can't go to them but I don't know how we could leave documentation behind that would convince a judge who doesn't know them that they are that rotten. The key is if they think there isn't much money. They won't want the boys unless a bunch of money is attached. For money, they'd take custody of them, put them in military school, or tie them up in the basement, and go on a spending spree. I guess we will have to work on the provisions of the trust to word it in such a way that should "x" people get custody of the boys, they can't get one red cent without pleading and begging it off our lawyer and pastor who will be co-administering the trust. But, I didn't want to make it hard for dd to pay for living expenses and nursing school. She's a very conservative spender and level headed so we were going to allow her a generous allowance each year and out of that, she would pay their expenses with stipulations that if she has a major event, i.e. ds 13 needs heart surgery, or the roof of the house needs replacing, she can get more by presenting her need to the co-executors of the trust who will make the final decision but are really great men.

 

My parents won't feel the need to sue for custody. They live two blocks away and my mother will turn into super nanny and be around all the time. The main reason we didn't choose them for guardians is that dad's heart is getting worse and he needs to not have that ultimate responsibility. Plus, once we are gone, mom would have to train a new office staff person to take over her work in dad's business. She couldn't just drop everything to become mommy again.

 

MIL is partly deaf. If you talk on one side of her head, even with a really good hearing aid, she doesn't respond. Her driving is getting a little unsafe and she knows it. She still maintains her nursing license but doesn't use it because of the hearing issue. She has already said that if something happened she'd be glad to help...cook for dd, clean, take the boys for an afternoon, etc. but that she can't become a parent again. The big issue will be her not "spilling the beans" to her other two children about the money. That said, she is not in our will to receive any cash from the estate so long as all of the children survive us. So, I can probably stipulate that she not be present at the reading of the will. At least, I hope I can. My parents and dd will keep the dollar amounts under wraps and our attorney and pastor would send the relatives packing with an earful if they attempted to come up for the reading of the will.

 

The main thing is to just keep the financial information away from his sibs. If we can manage that, they won't be interested in having anything to do with the boys. As it is, the boys barely know them and I am not sure they even know the names of all of their cousins! Hopefully, if worse came to worse, the judge would take into account that these people are strangers to our sons and it would be cruel to send them to live with strangers.

 

So, 2squared, do you have any other advice about keeping the extended relatives out of this mess? Can we stipulate who can and can not be at the reading of the will? Are all extended family legally entitled to know the financial arrangements we have made even if they are not beneficiaries? Can we specifiy that they not even be allowed to attend the funeral so they can't make trouble for dd? I'd call the attorney and ask him about this, but he's been in court for two days. I'm supposed to leave all of this behind with the paralegal. The will, as it stood last night, was witnessed by three friends and since the paralegal lives nearby, she came by last night and picked everything up. Mostly the changes that we are looking at today are not to the will itself, we can't because he won't be available again until Monday due to a big court case, but to the letters we will be leaving behind for the judge that explain our decision on the guardianship issue. If you have any thoughts, that would be great! That said, the chances of something happening to us while taking the amtrak to and from Chicago or eating dinner at Riva's on Navy Pier are pretty slim so I should probably stop worrying and just get my other work done.

 

Thanks,

Faith - who really should be showering, exfoliating because her legs look like lizard skin (not the best look with such a nice dress), running to the bank for some cash, sending out 4-H forms and newsletters, and going to the pharmacy to look for an eye shadow to match the dress since this is the first that I have ever owned a teal and silver outfit! Sheesh, there's a lot to do before we leave.

Edited June 10, 2010 by FaithManor

[higginszoo]

I really like the letter.

 

My parents did tell me that I was to be guardian of my youngest brother when they did a new will (my other brother had just turned 18). They emphasized that it did not mean that I'd be responsible for the day to day stuff (unless I chose to), but rather, it would be up to me to choose where he would live (who would care for him). My aunt and uncle had three young boys (2-7 years younger than db), his godparents had a recently empty nest, but were facing some financial issues. There were other close family friends who weren't available when the will was made, but might have been if it had needed to be used. He's 30 now, and my parents are still fine, so it never came to anything, but the whole idea that I only had the BIG decisions and not the little day to day ones was actually reassuring for me.

[Mary in VA]

I don't see why any of the sibs would have to have any knowlege of the will or any of the financial aspects. I was executor of my mom's will and my dh was executor of his mom's will. We're also both attorneys, but with no real experience in probate. There was no "reading of the will" as shown in movies in our cases and we've never seen it done. Of course it might be different among the states, but I would think if someone was not named in the will they would have no business knowing the financial end. The will would be filed with the court, so if someone really wanted to know about guardianship, etc. they ultimately find out. But unless your wills mention amounts of money (ours don't), or someone told them, they'd never know.

 

If you are really worried about control of the finances, you might want to put the estate in trust. (When you get back from the trip : ) That way the money can only be used for the welfare of the kids. The executors you named could be the trustees. I knew a girl in college whose parents had died. She received the money at 18 and had blown it all by the time freshman year was over : ( That made a big impression on me and our estate is in trust until our youngest is 23. We figure by then she will hopefully have completed college and have the maturity to handle it. The executor could still disperse money to the oldest if she needed it. That would stop anyone from wanting custody of your children just to get access to the money.

 

Mary

Edited June 10, 2010 by Mary in VA

[2squared]

Here's what I would do:

 

1) Relax.

2) Trust in the system. The judge will do what is right for your children. My husband has clients who want to do all kinds of crazy things with their wills, and he tells them that they can't make life perfect for those they leave behind. If life was perfect, they wouldn't have died. Just attach a letter explaining why you think your dd is the best choice and why the others aren't, and then relax.

3) Seperate the care of the children from the money. We have our money automatically put into a trust when we die. Then we have a trustee for the money on my side of the family, and the children are planned to go to a SIL on dh's side of the family. I like the division.

 

I think it makes sense that the judge has ultimate say. What happened if someone (obviously not one of us) named a drug user as a guardian? Clearly the judge would override that one pretty quickly. That's an outrageous example, but an example that maybe helps illustrate why the judge has oversight.

[newlifemom]

Thanks everyone!

 

 

 

So, with that morbid detail taken care of, I can now pack for our trip if I can get dh to be serious about what he wants to wear on the return leg. Ratty fishing cap, favorite fishing shirt with bleach spots, falling apart deck shoes, and shorts that have seen better days are not acceptable. He's being pretty silly so I think this is a sign that he's giddy about his vacation. I shall hide his Red Green Mountain Man outfit and pack clothing I approve of...Look out Ken, Barbie will now dress you accordingly!

 

Faith

 

:D