Foreign Language immersion camps...anyone?

[galtgrl]

We're wondering if it might be worth the $$ for our oldest next summer. She's developing a real interest in learning languages, and I think she might love the experience.

Has anyone done this? If so, what program and do you think it was worth it to your dc? :bigear:

[cathmom]

I've only heard great things about Concordia Language Villages in MN. I hope to send my next 2 oldest in a couple of years. They have a 4 week program for high school that counts as an entire credit.

[adrienne]

I'm sending my two 12-yr-olds this summer to Concordia in Minnesota for spanish immersion. It has gotten great reviews, but as this is our first time, I can't really comment on their experience.

 

A friend of mine sent her dd for chinese a few years ago (she is in public school and had no prior chinese). Upon returning, she was able to go into 2nd year chinese. Not sure if that's typical but wanted to pass it along.

 

hth,

Adrienne

[StephanieZ]

For spanish, if you look into language programs in latin america, you might find you can take the whole family for a few weeks for the cost of a domestic camp for one child!

 

I am hoping to take the whole gang (kids & I) to Guatemala or somewhere else like that for a few weeks one of these days. . . Dh and I are preparing mentally to put it in the budget in a couple years when all of our dc would be of an age to benefit (say at ages 10, 14, 16). It is so cheap per week that I would like to do it for a month or so (probably with a week pure vacation mixed in towards the end)

 

A friend had a great experience with a program in El Salvador. There are sooo many down there.

 

Here is one I have bookmarked

 

http://www.minervaspanishschool.com/index.html

 

Note that it is $175/wk including 5 hrs/day of private intruction, homestay, food, activities, etc.

 

I've also wondered about getting together several families with similar age kids and pitching in to pay one mom/chaperone with 3-4 teens. . . That would allow you to provide the experience for the older kid(s) who would most benefit w/o paying for all the kids (plus mom) in the family. It could be very cost effective and wonderful.

[Michelle in MO]

If I could send my kids anywhere for a summer foreign language immersion camp, it would be at Middlebury College in Vermont.

[cathmom]

If I could send my kids anywhere for a summer foreign language immersion camp, it would be at Middlebury College in Vermont.

 

That appears to be college level. Do they have a high school level, do you know?

[Jumping In Puddles]

That appears to be college level. Do they have a high school level, do you know?

 

Yes, they do:

http://www.mmla.middlebury.edu/index.html

 

Do you offer programs for children and/or high school students?

 

Yes, we do–the Middlebury-Monterey Language Academy (MMLA). MMLA is a four-week language academy for students in grades 8–12, modeled after the Middlebury Language Schools. We offer programs at three different sites in Arabic, Chinese, French, German, and Spanish. For more information please contact MMLA at 802.296.2459 or visit http://www.mmla.middlebury.edu.

[Ester Maria]

Grouping a kid, in America, with a bunch of other kids who are not native speakers? Bad idea if you ask me. I find those kinds of immersion camps a waste of money - not that the child will not profit, BUT, picking up other people's mistakes (and it WILL happen if the majority are not native speakers) is a real and huge risk.

 

Language camps that are ABROAD, in the country whose language you're learning, are a bit better idea since you tend to have free time for real immersion, a lot of exposure to native speakers and culture, so even if you're in the camp with a bunch of non-natives, the advantages outnumber disadvantages by far (while in the former option they pretty much even out).

 

A better and alternative option is to send the kid to a family, arrange some kind of mini-exchange during the school year (there are such programs, you just have to look them up) or check to join summer camps aimed at native kids, or various kinds of volunteer programs (that's a cheaper option).

 

I have my kids working on their Hebrew that way - we send them to Israel every year for a week or two, sometimes even to a school (this year we sent them for 3 weeks, and they attended school during most of that time too), in a full immersion with native speakers and their Hebrew goes up 500% every time we do it. Granted, we have family/friends there so the whole thing is a bit of a different experience, but if you could find something similar and organized, it would be a great thing to do. It's a lot better way to experience the culture, internalize the language and be forced to speak the language they study in various kinds of contexts (from family talk to schoolwork - as much as they can follow - to street talk, etc.).

[Matryoshka]

Here is one I have bookmarked

 

http://www.minervaspanishschool.com/index.html

 

Note that it is $175/wk including 5 hrs/day of private intruction, homestay, food, activities, etc.

 

WOW. That looks fantastic. Do you have any more bookmarked??

 

I speak fluent Spanish - it would be fun to go down there with all the kids! I never get a chance to speak much anymore.

[Matryoshka]

A better and alternative option is to send the kid to a family, arrange some kind of mini-exchange during the school year (there are such programs, you just have to look them up) or check to join summer camps aimed at native kids, or various kinds of volunteer programs (that's a cheaper option).

 

:iagree: That's the best option. That's what we're doing for German - one dd went to school for 4 wks in Germany last year, and hopefully we can send another dd next summer. It's much tougher for Spanish, as we have no family in a Spanish-speaking country, and I worry a bit more about the safety issues of sending girls off alone to a Latin American country. I'd feel a bit better about Spain.

Edited June 7, 2010 by matroyshka

[cathmom]

That's a great idea, Ester Maria! I don't know why I never thought of it before. For the same amount of money as sending my dd to Concordia for Swedish, I could sent her to Sweden to stay with my friend for a few weeks.

[galtgrl]

Wow - thanks for the ideas!

Grouping a kid, in America, with a bunch of other kids who are not native speakers? Bad idea if you ask me. I find those kinds of immersion camps a waste of money - not that the child will not profit, BUT, picking up other people's mistakes (and it WILL happen if the majority are not native speakers) is a real and huge risk.

 

Language camps that are ABROAD, in the country whose language you're learning, are a bit better idea since you tend to have free time for real immersion, a lot of exposure to native speakers and culture, so even if you're in the camp with a bunch of non-natives, the advantages outnumber disadvantages by far (while in the former option they pretty much even out).

 

 

Great point, Ester Maria.

 

I wonder if there is anything in Canada for French - that's what she is most interested in right now, and it would be pretty close.

Do you think the French in Quebec vs. French from France would be very different?

I have no clue about studying foreign languages, can you tell :lol:?

[Susie in CA]

Maybe you two can direct me!! How do you get your children accepted in a German or Hebrew school? Do you just call up a school and then are allowed to send your kids there?

 

Susie

[Ester Maria]

Maybe you two can direct me!! How do you get your children accepted in a German or Hebrew school? Do you just call up a school and then are allowed to send your kids there?

Actually, rather informally and in a relaxed manner - my husband has some family in Israel, whose children attend the school as well, so they arrange it with the school - they politely ask if our children can "jump in" for a week or two while they're in Israel if they happen to come during the academic year (since it really makes no sense that they stay in and watch TV, waiting for their relatives to come back from school). You need to talk to the principal and to the class mentor (even though the individual professors will be warned as well) in advance, mentioning that your children are native English speakers is a BIG plus :D, since the school that way also "profits" from you too as English is studied pretty much everywhere.

 

Your children will not be formally "put" in the school (no grades, no marked attendance, etc.), but they will try to include them in the school process - especially in English classes, which is sort of the opposite of what you want :D, but I guess you need to expect to give back a little for what you'll be given.

 

If state schools make an issue (in some countries they might, but it mostly depends on the principal), check the private ones, but we so far have not had any issues (we also had kids as "tourists" in French and Austrian schools that our relatives' and friends' kids attended :D, but that was more of a day-or-two kind of thing or literally a visit; if you want them to spend a week or few in the school, you need to arrange it in advance, mention the grade level of your children, how long they've been learning the language, maybe even familiarize them with your curriculum, and of course they will ask you all the personal information about the child and you as parents, and might ask to see you in advance with the class mentor to talk and check you).

 

Basically - some schools make it a big deal, some are very relaxed, to the point of not even having any sort of formal process. Assuming you don't have anyone in school (a relative/friend's kid) to guarantee for you, they might be more formal, but I think that if you explain your situation well and say that you're looking for a language and culture exchange, most of the people will be willing to help you. :)

[outtamyshell]

We don't have any experience with it, but there's a very reasonably priced option at BYU. Startalk is partially funded by grants from the US government. They do have native speakers with each group. And their Arabic camp was $800 last year. They also offer Chinese.

 

http://nmelrc.byu.edu/startalk/

[Susie in CA]

Actually, rather informally and in a relaxed manner - my husband has some family in Israel, whose children attend the school as well, so they arrange it with the school - they politely ask if our children can "jump in" for a week or two while they're in Israel if they happen to come during the academic year (since it really makes no sense that they stay in and watch TV, waiting for their relatives to come back from school). You need to talk to the principal and to the class mentor (even though the individual professors will be warned as well) in advance, mentioning that your children are native English speakers is a BIG plus :D, since the school that way also "profits" from you too as English is studied pretty much everywhere.

 

Your children will not be formally "put" in the school (no grades, no marked attendance, etc.), but they will try to include them in the school process - especially in English classes, which is sort of the opposite of what you want :D, but I guess you need to expect to give back a little for what you'll be given.

 

If state schools make an issue (in some countries they might, but it mostly depends on the principal), check the private ones, but we so far have not had any issues (we also had kids as "tourists" in French and Austrian schools that our relatives' and friends' kids attended :D, but that was more of a day-or-two kind of thing or literally a visit; if you want them to spend a week or few in the school, you need to arrange it in advance, mention the grade level of your children, how long they've been learning the language, maybe even familiarize them with your curriculum, and of course they will ask you all the personal information about the child and you as parents, and might ask to see you in advance with the class mentor to talk and check you).

 

Basically - some schools make it a big deal, some are very relaxed, to the point of not even having any sort of formal process. Assuming you don't have anyone in school (a relative/friend's kid) to guarantee for you, they might be more formal, but I think that if you explain your situation well and say that you're looking for a language and culture exchange, most of the people will be willing to help you. :)

 

Thank you so much for your respnse. I never thought to try something like this before.

 

Susie

[Ester Maria]

That's a great idea, Ester Maria! I don't know why I never thought of it before. For the same amount of money as sending my dd to Concordia for Swedish, I could sent her to Sweden to stay with my friend for a few weeks.

You have a daughter learning Swedish? Wow, that's an unusual choice of the language. :)

 

In any case, yes, it's a LOT better option. She gets language, culture, sightseeing, spending time with your friend, getting to know the country from the inside... I'd do it that way. If you can also manage to put her in school for a bit, in order to make some friends (with whom she might keep contact later :D) and catch up with slang, it'd be great.

[lisabees]

Ds11 will spend two weeks at Tokyo-Frost Valley YMCA's Japanese immersion camp. He will likely be the only non-Japanese there. It is for Japanese-Americans looking to learn the language/culture before they head to the island and for Japanese who have recently come to the states and must learn English. They spend the morning doing language and culture activities and the afternoon doing typical camp stuff.

 

We have spent the last two summers at Frost Valley's family camp (because of its Japanese culture sharing program during that week - ds has always been obsessed). He is very excited!

[cathmom]

You have a daughter learning Swedish? Wow, that's an unusual choice of the language. :)

 

In any case, yes, it's a LOT better option. She gets language, culture, sightseeing, spending time with your friend, getting to know the country from the inside... I'd do it that way. If you can also manage to put her in school for a bit, in order to make some friends (with whom she might keep contact later :D) and catch up with slang, it'd be great.

 

I'll have to talk to my friend and see if she would be willing to do this sometime.

 

Swedish is unusual! She wanted to learn it because her favorite American Girl doll is Kirstin, who was a Swedish immigrant. It's been really hard to find resources for Swedish. We are trying to learn it together, because I always wanted to learn it too. So far we are plugging along, but I hope to find a native-speaking tutor for next year.

[rieshy]

We sent our 17 yo rising senior last summer to Antigua, Guatemala. He enrolled in Probigua Language School for 3 weeks and lived in a boarding house just a few minutes walk from the school.

 

It was a wonderful experience for him. He had language class, one-on-one with a tutor for 4 hours a day. The home where he lived did not allow english so he had to speak only spanish at meals as well. The afternoons he spent studying.

 

Our extended family has been going to this same school for literally 10 years now. My son scheduled his stay to coincide with one of his favorite cousins. They traveled together on weekends, sometimes with school outings sometimes on their own.

 

He learned so much more than just Spanish. He even roasted marshmellows over lava.

 

The price was very inexpensive considering the individual tutoring and total immersion. It was cheaper than dual enrollment for a year at any rate.

[unity]

While I agree that a foreign homestay is a terrific idea if you have the right set-up, I think it may not be wise to dismiss out of hand the idea of the language immersion camp.

 

In college, I had a friend who attended Middlebury's program. She went from speaking absolutely no French at all to about the level that my French students had achieved after a year of French study (at Yale). (Which, in turn, was about equivalent to 3 or 4 years of French in high school.) Her language wasn't perfect, and I'm sure she was sometimes influenced negatively by her fellow students, but there must have been a good deal of instructional interaction with the campers to correct mistakes. She had had to sign a contract to speak only French, and in my opinion, it worked.

 

On the other hand, I did several homestays ranging from a few weeks to a semester, and if I had not made a personal commitment to speak French (or Spanish, which I also studied) it would have been only too easy to get by with communicating primarily in English.

 

I could see sending a kid to a nearby camp if a stay abroad seems a little out of his or her comfort range at the moment.

[Jumping In Puddles]

 

We have spent the last two summers at Frost Valley's family camp (because of its Japanese culture sharing program during that week - ds has always been obsessed). He is very excited!

 

That camp sounds great! What other resources have you used for Japanese language for your son?

[lisabees]

That camp sounds great! What other resources have you used for Japanese language for your son?

 

Ds has been using Irasshai - which I love!! I bought the dvds for $100, but they are offered free here. http://dl.gpb.org/vsx/GPBPro/diglib_search/search I think you start with 201. Do a search on this board for more info.

 

Other free resources.

 

http://web-jpn.org/kidsweb/index.html (better for younger kids)

http://www.yesjapan.com/YJ6/index.php (better for high school students; my ds is 11)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/japanese/phrases.shtml

[PeterPan]

I did Indiana University's summer camp for russian two summers, directly out of high school. There was a lady there who had also studied at Middlebury, and indeed her conversational skills WERE terrific. As Unity said, you shouldn't utterly dismiss a summer program, simply because it's not abroad. I also did a summer in Russia, living with families and traveling, and people are CONSTANTLY trying to get you to speak english. When you won't, they get offended. And there are things you can get in a quality instructional program (like Middlebury's or IU's) that you won't get by traveling abroad. We had courses in linguistics where we analyzed the language, isolating each sound, learning how to form it correctly, studying the inflection patterns, etc. That instruction is, if I may say, what sets apart a student who has been immersed from the student who has studied. I knew someone who had lived in Russia for several years who still did not pronounce basic sounds (consonants) correctly, simply because he had never learned how.

 

I think you actually want BOTH, but I wouldn't dismiss out of hand the value of one or the other. Besides, the way I got mine, I got 10 credits toward my BA, and over two summers earned most of the credits for my minor. So in my case it was definitely money well spent. And while you can go into one of those programs cold turkey, knowing nothing, I think you'd accomplish a lot more having done some foundational study. If you find a program you like, get them to tell you what texts they recommend for first and 2nd year study. I tested into 3rd year, and that was good. The next year I went back and tested into 4th year, which was even better. At that point I was ready to take advantage of the translation classes and extras the program offered.

 

Another point not brought up here is that some languages are more conducive to learning by immersion than others. I don't know a lick about Swedish. Is it inflected? I was assuming not. Your romance languages and whatnot are the type of thing you can go in cold and come out after a summer in the country and be fluent. But do that with an inflected language like russian and, while you'll come out talking, you won't know the grammar WELL. I suspect the lady sending her kids to learn hebrew did some ground work to prep them ahead of time. You can debate the whole language vs. use thing, but I think it's sensible to take a middle of the road approach: learn as much grammar as you can while here and work on conversation and immersion as much as you can when you get there. Your grammar exercises here aren't necessarily helpful for getting you going with real conversation, but they let you go to a higher level more quickly once you get there.

[HeidiKC]

We sent our 17 yo rising senior last summer to Antigua, Guatemala. He enrolled in Probigua Language School for 3 weeks and lived in a boarding house just a few minutes walk from the school.

 

 

This sounds WONDERFUL! I checked the website and don't see any age requirements and it sounds like it is really more for adults? Or I guess a 17-year-old that is almost an adult? Are they set up to take younger kids or do you know?

[Ester Maria]

And there are things you can get in a quality instructional program (like Middlebury's or IU's) that you won't get by traveling abroad. We had courses in linguistics where we analyzed the language, isolating each sound, learning how to form it correctly, studying the inflection patterns, etc. That instruction is, if I may say, what sets apart a student who has been immersed from the student who has studied. I knew someone who had lived in Russia for several years who still did not pronounce basic sounds (consonants) correctly, simply because he had never learned how.

I don't think anyone here has advocated learning the language without any amount of formal study; in fact, I'm the first to adamantly insist on a thorough formal study of at least ground morphosyntax of the language in question. :)

 

That being said, I view stays abroad more as the time to put things into practice than the time reserved for formal study. And practice-wise, nothing can replace a stay in the country where the language is spoken, especially if you're already advanced and can conduct most of the daily matters in the foreign language.

Another point not brought up here is that some languages are more conducive to learning by immersion than others. I don't know a lick about Swedish. Is it inflected? I was assuming not. Your romance languages and whatnot are the type of thing you can go in cold and come out after a summer in the country and be fluent. But do that with an inflected language like russian and, while you'll come out talking, you won't know the grammar WELL.

But Elizabeth, this is quite incorrect, linguistically speaking.

Russian is an inflected language with highly irregular genitive plural and whatnot, absolutely, I agree - but on the other hand, it has three verb tenses and rather simple verbal morphology when compared to the Romance languages that you dismiss as essentially easy. No subjunctives, no complex passives, no consecutio temporum...

 

Being fluent and literate in a Romance language is in my opinion just as difficult as being fluent and literate in a Slavic language. I don't know a single person who was fluent in Italian after a summer in Italy (unless it was preceded by a long and heavy study of the language). I do know a couple of them who thought they were fluent because they could communicate on a basic level, but in reality they were half-literate and could not compose a complex sentence if their life depended on it (I know, because *I* got paid later to "fix" their Italian - and it was only when they started working with me that it "clicked" them that, save the nominal inflection, Italian grammar is basically Latin grammar, with all of its verbal-syntactic intricacies).

 

Pretty much the only advantage that the English speakers have when studying Romance languages is an initial lexical advantage (it's a lot easier to remember that educazione is education than that obrazovanye is education, or that art is arte, as opposed to isskustvo) - but it doesn't help you much when it comes to subjunctives of the pluperfect and alike. I think it's only initial lexical familiarity that can help at the beginning stages, later the difficulty tends to even out.

I suspect the lady sending her kids to learn hebrew did some ground work to prep them ahead of time.

Correct, they've been hearing/studying it their whole lives, pretty much. While it's not exactly their native language (we didn't speak Hebrew TO them when they were young), it's also not "foreign" in the full sense of the word. In any case, I wouldn't put them to experience the "sink or swim" of a school in Hebrew without prior study. They also had problems with people trying to switch to English, but I've taught them to be firm and deadly boring about that, respond in Hebrew all the time and even openly tell people that they're in Israel to learn Hebrew and be more Jewish than in America (lol, guilty tripping - but it works with most people), and that they'd prefer to be spoken to in Hebrew and corrected. :) In school it's a lot easier, as the default language of the instruction is Hebrew, save the English lesson where they "exploit" the kids' presence. But as I said, I view it as a "give some learning opportunity back" situation, as long as they mostly function in Hebrew.

 

They picked up informally (travel and stays abroad, family friends and European expat circles here) basic German and more-than-basic French, and I actually find that they speak them very well for somebody whose only experience is immersion - but they're yet to formally learn those languages and do "real" immersions to supplement that formal study.

Edited June 13, 2010 by Ester Maria
added smilies

[Nan in Mass]

If you are like us, for whom opportunities to go abroad to improve your language skills are rare and expensive, you probably want to learn as much of the language as possible before you go. Immersion is a rather expensive way to learn basic language skills. And a confusing one. It is fairly easy to learn at least some basic phrases and a little basic vocabulary and structure before you go. You can probably at least get Pimsleur tapes from the library, if nothing else.

-Nan

[Storm Bay]

Wow - thanks for the ideas!

 

Great point, Ester Maria.

 

I wonder if there is anything in Canada for French - that's what she is most interested in right now, and it would be pretty close.

Do you think the French in Quebec vs. French from France would be very different?

I have no clue about studying foreign languages, can you tell :lol:?

 

 

The person to ask would be Cleo. What I know of it is that the accent in Quebec is different, but there are different accents right in France. I think there may be a few other differences since most of the francophones in Quebec have been there for generations, so that's bound to happen. It's still French, though.

[PeterPan]

Ester, sounds like we're agreeing. :) However russian does have a subjunctive (by plus the past tense), just not the same as in italian or english. I looked up your Consecutio temporum and it looks like you have auxilliary/helping verbs to do this. Russian is more subtle, using different "aspects" of the verb (perfective and imperfective). So it's actually the translation that is harder than anything, because you have to think through how to take your 8 or 10 different expressions for which you're used to having separate words and learn to think of it in a whole new way. And if someone wants to think of that as simplistic, more power to them; we spent the entire 4th year russian on it. Russian also does a lot with prepositions, using different cases to change meaning. But granted, russian is by no means the hardest language. :)

 

The other thing you bring out really well is differences in expectation. Someone who has studied languages realizes there's a difference between "fluency" where you speak like an 8 yo (get around in town, hang out with friends) and "fluency" where you can form mature, complex, adult-level, educated-sounding sentences, write paragraphs, and read adult-level books. As I think about it, the people I know who did a summer and came back fluent HAD done some study, either of that language or at least latin. I had had 4 years of college level study before I went, so within a short while things started clicking.

[rieshy]

This sounds WONDERFUL! I checked the website and don't see any age requirements and it sounds like it is really more for adults? Or I guess a 17-year-old that is almost an adult? Are they set up to take younger kids or do you know?

 

My aunt took one of my cousins when my cousin was only 12. The 12 yo took classes as well. The 12 yo learned tons and loved it. She is 19 now and has gone 3 different times. She is now considered fluent.

 

As far as sending a child that young alone? I wouldn't do it because students don't live on the school grounds but in one of several boarding houses that merely contract with the school. You are basically on your own before and after class, no chaperones. Plus I imagine it would be lonely, the other students are generally late teen to adults.