s/o do we rely too much on "experts"

[shinyhappypeople]

Didn't want to hijack the thread about affording outside activities. But, it's really got me thinking: Do we rely too much on expert instruction? Have we developed a weird learned helplessness when it comes to teaching our kids non-academics?

 

I've been wondering about how we'll afford swim lessons. Anyway, reading that thread it hit me (duh): I can swim. My DH can swim. We are perfectly capable of teaching our girls to swim well enough to stay safe and have fun in the water.

 

My DH is one of those annoying people who can pick up an instrument he's never seen before and be playing it well an hour later. It's his "thing."

 

Anyway, I was sad because we can't afford dance AND gym AND music lessons. I told DH all this and he just stared at me for a moment like I'd lost my mind and said, "I can teach them any instrument they want to learn."

 

But, I'm so used to the idea of *paying an expert* for beginning music instruction, sports instruction... pretty much everything. It didn't occur to me to NOT hire out their lessons.

 

And why do little kids need to be on organized sports with professional instruction? Why can't we just teach kids to play the game ourselves? Why do we need *leagues* for 7 year olds?

 

Anyway, I'm not sure where I'm going with this. I just wonder if I'm the only one who's noticed the trend to outsource and professionalize childhood.

[Shelly in IL]

I've struggled with being over-committed sometimes and I think the quality of the work suffers. AND, I don't like the "out of control" feeling that goes with it.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Didn't want to hijack the thread about affording outside activities. But, it's really got me thinking: Do we rely too much on expert instruction? Have we developed a weird learned helplessness when it comes to teaching our kids non-academics?

 

I've been wondering about how we'll afford swim lessons. Anyway, reading that thread it hit me (duh): I can swim. My DH can swim. We are perfectly capable of teaching our girls to swim well enough to stay safe and have fun in the water.

 

My DH is one of those annoying people who can pick up an instrument he's never seen before and be playing it well an hour later. It's his "thing."

 

Anyway, I was sad because we can't afford dance AND gym AND music lessons. I told DH all this and he just stared at me for a moment like I'd lost my mind and said, "I can teach them any instrument they want to learn."

 

But, I'm so used to the idea of *paying an expert* for beginning music instruction, sports instruction... pretty much everything. It didn't occur to me to NOT hire out their lessons.

 

And why do little kids need to be on organized sports with professional instruction? Why can't we just teach kids to play the game ourselves? Why do we need *leagues* for 7 year olds?

 

Anyway, I'm not sure where I'm going with this. I just wonder if I'm the only one who's noticed the trend to outsource and professionalize childhood.

 

I've run into this. I had people pity us in the past because I didn't have a car to take my kids to activities and I didn't have the money to take put them into the activities even if we did. So - dh taught the kids to swim. The kids love it when we have to stay in a motel on vacation because it means swimming lesson time! I've taught the kids to play the recorder and now dh is teaching ds12 to play the classical guitar. I've had kids come over for art parties, drama parties and cooking parties. But when I told people that we were covering the bases that way they would still look at me with pity because my kids weren't enrolled in a formal activity. . . sigh. Maybe I should charge my kids for attending - then it will be formal, right? And I'll be the expert!

[Jane in NC]

The flip side of expertise is an incompetent public. Historically, the ambiguous relationship between democracy and reliance on expertise has led many thinkers to draw pessimistic conclusions about the capacity of the public to play the role of a responsible citizenry. This argument is presented forcefully by American commentator Walter Lippmann in his classic 1992 study, Public Opinion. Lippmann declared that the proportion of the electorate that is "absolutely illiterate" is much larger than one would suspect and that these people, who are "mentally children or barbarians", are natural targets of manipulators.

 

Small point: Lippman died in 1974. Public Opinion dates back to 1922.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Jane in NC

[Danestress]

You are absolutely right that if you want your child to be safe and to be able to swim, in the water, you can teach them that yourself. They really half teach this to themselves when they are ready.

 

On the other hand, if you want your child to participate on a swim team, you may need someone to teach him to perfect his stroke. It's just a different goal. Every family will have it's own goals.

 

I purposely chose sports for my children that depend on professional coaching. For us, those coaching relationships and the hours spent on mastering skills have been really special. Their coaches are full time dedicated to training these children. But my children are committed to those activities and are working very hard. When they were at an age when I was just trying to let them keep busy and learn a sport, I wouldn't have wanted to spend money on private lessons.

[elegantlion]

We try to teach ds what we can. Between my dh and I we can cover a wide variety of topics. We like to have outside activities, which we have none right now, for a few reasons:

 

1. social outlet. Only child, things can get boring doing them alone.

2. accountable to another adult. I keep thinking of those letters of reference for college. If he's never been under someone else's teaching, guidance, mentorship it might be harder to obtain those.

3. Outside exposure, just seeing how others deal with life, teaching, etc.

 

Our budget forces us to limit activities, but he still gets exposure to a variety of activities. I'm hoping by the time he hits high school he will have a few passions that we can find a more pintpointed area of outside activity.

[fairfarmhand]

There are also professional potty trainers!

 

http://northeasternwisconsin.momslikeme.com/members/JournalActions.aspx?g=444908&m=639979

[mcconnellboys]

You know, I think that sometimes we really do think that someone advertising something that sounds nifty is somehow better qualified to do that something than are we. However, if we start looking into their qualifications, at least in my experience, I've often found that they may not be qualified and it may turn out that what they offer and what they actually provide are two different things entirely.

 

I think a lot of us suffer from our fast food society indoctrination. We go through the drive through at the bank, dry cleaner, some grocery stores, pharmacy, and other places. Everything is quick, quick. We want everything done to us, or for us. We want to sit back and relax while someone else does the work (as when we're waited on at restaurants). We're all just chauffeurs, LOL! We just drive through life! What happens when there's no one at all left who can actually DO something, I wonder?

 

I think you're on to something.....

[Sherry in OH]

My children take outside sports lessons because we are new to our area and they have no playmates. Also, we are older parents. We do not have the stamina or physical agility to play the more strenuous sports.

 

When I was growing up, kids taught each other the basics of sports. You went to the park, there were other kids, someone had a ball, and soon there was a game. If there was no ball, someone found an old coke can and start a game of kick-the-can (hide and seek with a twist).

 

Walking around my neighborhood, I don't see this. If kids are playing together, it is an organized play-date or organized sports.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My children take outside sports lessons because we are new to our area and they have no playmates. Also, we are older parents. We do not have the stamina or physical agility to play the more strenuous sports.

 

When I was growing up, kids taught each other the basics of sports. You went to the park, there were other kids, someone had a ball, and soon there was a game. If there was no ball, someone found an old coke can and start a game of kick-the-can (hide and seek with a twist).

 

Walking around my neighborhood, I don't see this. If kids are playing together, it is an organized play-date or organized sports.

 

True, but last time we started up a game of kickball outside, we had even grown-up neighbors coming and asking if they could play!

[Colleen in NS]

I just wonder if I'm the only one who's noticed the trend to outsource and professionalize childhood.

 

I've noticed it, and felt pressured by it, but then again, maybe my childhood was sheltered - we did not participate in all these things. We went to school, and went home, did homework, chores, played, went to bed. But we lived out in the boonies, with a single, working Mom, so we weren't carted here and there. Anything I wanted to participate in, I had to find a ride, and most of the time, that was a hassle, so I didn't bother.

 

I've seen examples in history where children did have tutors for things like foreign language, piano, ballet, painting, etc.. So I know it's not new. It's just that I HATE the pressure while I am raising kids! :) We just flat out can't do these things, and I truly HAVE become content with that. It has forced me to think about what I really want my kids to learn. Our "extras" have become dh teaching piano from books and a free piano, and me teaching them how to draw and paint. And knit and crochet sometimes. And my kids teach themselves some things, like electronics with an electronics kit that was a birthday gift, or baking from a library baking book. Of course, I intend to teach my kids to cook and bake, too, but really, we CAN learn an awful lot from library books and a little creative application (thrift stores are great sources of inexpensive fabric, for example, to teach sewing skills with - think of all those beautiful sheets!).

 

I had people pity us in the past because I didn't have a car to take my kids to activities and I didn't have the money to take put them into the activities even if we did. ...But when I told people that we were covering the bases that way they would still look at me with pity because my kids weren't enrolled in a formal activity.

 

Me, too. And when they pitied me, it made me pity me! Yet my kids are fine. They are content, and thriving, and healthy, and know how to find things to do and create their own fun.

 

Sometimes I think people pity me if I mention that I'm teaching my kids to draw (or cook, or bake, or Latin, etc.), because it *is* an extra, and they know I homeschool, so they think I'm a martyr, and couldn't imagine doing that plus teaching "extras." Or within the homeschooling crowd - I had an experienced homeschooler tell me a few years ago, when I mentioned I was looking into Prima Latina for Latin, "Oh, you won't be able to do that without the video teaching." She was pretty adamant about it. Well, I couldn't afford the video, so I did it without. It's laughable to me now. Heck, I'm doing Henle without an online class!!!! I can't afford online classes, so I dug in and figured out a strategy to do it myself.

 

I know there are different perspectives here on this. I know that people have many good reasons for paying "experts" to teach their kids some things that I'm either not interested in or that I teach them myself because of $$. I have thought at times, "Gee, if I just found or created some part time income-earning work, I *could* afford to do some of these things I'd like my kids to learn." I could tutor; I could make a good hourly wage at it - I've done it before. But for a million family-dynamic reasons, I haven't pursued it. Besides, I'd have to change our schedule to suit when lessons were available, and I've done that before and found it disruptive. And I've learned that I've enjoyed learning a few things about drawing, crafting, and I love swimming in the empty pool with my kids when we go at the cheap times. I've also learned that I don't like running from here to there and everywhere. I like going out; I like visiting people; I like going to the library and the pool. I just don't like regularly running from place to place on someone else's schedule, while raising a family. The only thing I do this for is church meeting, because it's a part of our family fabric. And of course, for visits with friends - of course we'd bend our schedule to visit with other families. Just not "activities" at this point. Maybe in high school, maybe later, maybe if some superfantabulous opportunity came up that was once in a lifetime. But not just to join in with what current culture offers us and tells us is important.

 

We're all just chauffeurs, LOL! We just drive through life!

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[lllll]

..

[Jean in Newcastle]

Another thing I think seems to fall by the wayside is something Colleen mentioned. Kids can really teach themselves many things. Different kids of ours have taught themselves to play the piano, play the guitar, play the accordian, knit, crochet, drawing, painting, raising chickens, gardening, making homemade movies, swimming, sewing, cooking, painting a house, and much more. *I* didn't know how to do all these things. Dh knew even less. We just kept providing oppotunities for them and letting them know that the opportunity was there - they could do as little or as much with it as they wanted to do. We made sure they had the time to develop the interest, encouraged them and talked them through things when needed, and then let them go. If they had waited until we could afford teachers for all of these things, this list would be tiny. Climbing down off my soapbox now ..... :)

 

I agree. You can still find books (like Childcraft, The Dangerous Book for Boys etc.) that teach kids how to do many games, crafts and activities.

 

I will say, however, that we did sign dd up for gymnastics after she was watching Bela Karoli tapes on her own and almost killed herself jumping headfirst off of the couch. . . That's a good one to have a coach for! (and nice soft mats underneath. . .)

[Peela]

It's not just kids though- its us adults too. Now we need to go to university to learn things that in the past one would learn from someone as a mentor. Everyone needs a qualification, even to serve coffee! (there are coffee making courses at my local cc).There are courses on how to be a shop assistant.

I guess the social structures are not there for us all to learn from the older people in the community. And no one wants to pay a junior even a few $ an hour to learn a skill like using a cash register- they want them to have done a course first.

Its all becoming more and more impersonal. And we are all disempowered.

But at the same time as the general trend is going in that directon...there is another trend that it is response and reaction to it. And we homeschoolers are a major part of that. How dare we think we can actually teach our children even elementary level mathematics and how to read and write?

In my city they are creating vegetable gardens in most primary schools because there is a realisation thatcity kids are out of touch with nature.

Things swing one way, and then there is a response.

[joannqn]

Here's how our activities fit in this theme.

 

My daughter goes to the Computer Clubhouse for the social interaction and because they have many thousands of dollars worth of computer and video equipment and software that I can't afford that she wants to play with and learn. Plus it's free.

 

My son goes to taekwondo because he wants to learn it, get his black belt, and become an instructor. There's no way he could learn this independently. Our virtual academy pays for most of it.

 

All three kids go to swimming lessons because I could not help my daughter overcome her extreme fear of water. This is her third attempt at swimming lessons; it's a pricey place but they specialize in fearful kids. After three months, she still has her panicky moments but she can swim. Between our virtual academy and my husband trading services, my older two will get 4 1/2 months of instruction and my 3 year old will get 2 months of instruction without us paying.

 

My kids get "art class" while I'm at MOPS. They've both complained that they aren't getting taught anything. "All we do is trace and copy pictures." Good thing this is part of MOPS and I don't have to pay extra for it! At home, I'm teaching them real drawing techniques myself.

[asta]

There are certain things that my son absolutely. refuses. to. learn. from. me.

 

I know how to swim. Well. So what? He refuses to listen to my instruction. A coach? No problem.

 

I have heard from many different coaches that this is the case for a great number of kids; the are quite aware that their parent knows something. But that is their parent, not their swim coach, piano teacher, etc. For the kid, it is a way of separating out roles in their head.

 

Take it for what it's worth.

 

 

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