Adoption question

[Joker]

My dh is not close to his oldest sister. We received a letter from her today that said she was losing custody of her two daughters. She has been fighting this for about two years (that we know of). The girls are 10 and 4 years old. In her letter she said they were going to be split up. She said the 10 yr old was unadoptable ( by CA standards ) due to behavior problems. What could this mean?

 

This is weighing heavily on our hearts and it's not something we can ignore. We know his sister is not in a good place and she has had many opportunities to change but doesn't. We are considering looking into if we could possibly take them both in. We are on the opposite side of the country but he is very concerned about her knowing we might have them and showing up. I don't really know what I'm asking but any info would be appreciated. Thanks!

[DaffodilDreams]

I have a friend who works in the adoption field in CA. If you wish, I can copy your words and email them to her or I can get her permission to send you her email address so you can converse with her yourself.

 

As for the 10 yo's behavior, it could be pre-adolescent funk gone haywire thanks to an inconsistent childhood or it could be something as bad as reactive attachment disorder or oppositional defiant disorder, typically due to a failure to securely attach to a caregiver. I don't know your SIL's issues, but if she's losing her children, it wouldn't surprise me to learn her parenting skills were less than desirable and that the 10 yo's needs were not consistently met, causing the trust cycle to be broken which inevitably leads to attachment issues.

 

If you do decide to pursue adoption of your nieces, I would advise you to grab a copy of Adoption Parenting: Creating a Toolbox http://www.amazon.com/Adoption-Parenting-Creating-Building-Connections/dp/0972624457 .

 

Here is a website with a lot of useful info. It was created for the China adoption community, but much of the info is universal to any adoption:

http://www.attach-china.org/

 

And another good site: http://www.adoptiontoolbox.com/

 

Hope some of this helps, and I hope things work out well for the children. They deserve someone to love them, set appropriate boundaries, and show them that life can be calm and safe.

[Joker]

Thanks for the links! I would rather you not share info. right now, but thanks for offering. We're still trying to find our way. I don't even know if an adoption from CA to FL is doable at this point. We just really can't stomach the idea right now that these girls will be split up and that the older girl will flow into the system.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

My dh is not close to his oldest sister. We received a letter from her today that said she was losing custody of her two daughters. She has been fighting this for about two years (that we know of). The girls are 10 and 4 years old. In her letter she said they were going to be split up. She said the 10 yr old was unadoptable ( by CA standards ) due to behavior problems. What could this mean?

 

This is weighing heavily on our hearts and it's not something we can ignore. We know his sister is not in a good place and she has had many opportunities to change but doesn't. We are considering looking into if we could possibly take them both in. We are on the opposite side of the country but he is very concerned about her knowing we might have them and showing up. I don't really know what I'm asking but any info would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

 

:grouphug: I would guess there would be a way to do in without her knowing. I will be praying for you and those 2 precious dd's! Behavior problems could be a result of whatever they were living with-- meaning whatever she is loosing them over, drugs, abuse, neglect, whatever the reason. Kids pick up on that. Alot of time, they just need love, discipline and counseling to get back on course! And with her being 10, she should do fine with counseling! Those poor kids-- I can not imagine! :grouphug: to you both!

[DaffodilDreams]

Thanks for the links! I would rather you not share info. right now, but thanks for offering. We're still trying to find our way. I don't even know if an adoption from CA to FL is doable at this point. We just really can't stomach the idea right now that these girls will be split up and that the older girl will flow into the system.

 

No problem. Mum's the word.

[specialmama]

I'm in Canada, so anything I know about law here is redundant there. But I wanted to encourage you both: worst case: RAD, and RAD is absolutely severe and not every family can handle it... however, having roots (being with bio family) will drastically increase this girl's odds. Moving cross-country will rock the boat for sure, but being with bio family trumps the move in most adoption workers' books.

 

I will pray hard for you. I feel your burden. Truly I do. :grouphug:

[at the beach]

My dh is not close to his oldest sister. We received a letter from her today that said she was losing custody of her two daughters. She has been fighting this for about two years (that we know of). The girls are 10 and 4 years old. In her letter she said they were going to be split up. She said the 10 yr old was unadoptable ( by CA standards ) due to behavior problems. What could this mean?

 

This is weighing heavily on our hearts and it's not something we can ignore. We know his sister is not in a good place and she has had many opportunities to change but doesn't. We are considering looking into if we could possibly take them both in. We are on the opposite side of the country but he is very concerned about her knowing we might have them and showing up. I don't really know what I'm asking but any info would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

If you have any interest in helping these girls, I would contact the county children's services agency in which your sister lives immediately. You may have to be persistent. You may have to file a motion in the court there asking for legal custody of these kids. ETA: Or, if you want your sil out of the picture completely, you'd have to look into how to adopt them.

 

There is no obligation in some states for the state to place with a relative. There would have to be an interstate homestudy done if these children are currently in the temporary custody of the state. That can take a long while. When you say she is losing custody, does this mean they have been in her care up until now or they have been in foster care for nearly two years already and the state is moving to get permanent custody of the girls? The best case scenario if you want these girls is that the agency is supportive of that and works with you. But don't count on that. They might be happy to send you the ten year old but resist on the younger if there is someone that wants to adopt her there that they are familiar with. However, if you are willing to take the older girl, then they should be willing to look into both going into your home so they don't have to be split up.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Violet

[michelle l]

I But I wanted to encourage you both: worst case: RAD, and RAD is absolutely severe and not every family can handle it... however, having roots (being with bio family) will drastically increase this girl's odds. Moving cross-country will rock the boat for sure, but being with bio family trumps the move in most adoption workers' books.

 

:grouphug:

:iagree:

 

I'm wondering why they are saying the 10yr old is unadoptable. That's probably something I'd want to know more about due to the fact that some children can have behaviors that are unsafe for other children in the house. At the same time, what are the alternatives they are offering for her? Permanent foster care? Institutionalized care? (which really is necessary in some situations)

 

Also, you should probably find out (and perhaps you already know) what issues caused the termination of parental rights. Is there a history of neglect? Direct abuse? Can you find out the type and severity? I think it's important that you know what you are getting into in that some of the effects can be pretty huge -- love is NOT always enough. I say this not to imply that you should not consider pursuing adoption, but rather that it's vital that they only go to people who are completely committed to them with an good understanding of the issues they might face.

 

Blessings as you look into this.

Edited May 6, 2010 by michelle l

[Teachin'Mine]

You have a chance to change at least two lives. If you are able, and obviously you are feeling called, go for it. Those little girls need a stable and loving family, and they need each other too. No advice on how to proceed, but I'll be praying for you, your family, and for them and your SIL too.

[Twinmom]

If you are interested in adopting these girls, I'd not necessarily take their mom's word at face value. Contact the caseworker and find out for yourself the details of their situation. Only when you have the facts can you make a good decision for your family. There might even be a psychological eval. in place (or planned) for the elder girl...that would give you a diagnosis and good insight into her issues. Given the fact that you are a biological relative interested in a placement, I'm certain that child services would be interested in talking to you!!

[Impish]

Praying for you to find wisdom, strength, and peace to make the right decision for these girls, and your family.

 

Absolutely look into RAD. It is a very difficult thing to manage, and may well be beyond your ability to manage...not because you lack anything, but because very few families can manage.

[Beth in TN]

If you are interested in adopting these girls, I'd not necessarily take their mom's word at face value. Contact the caseworker and find out for yourself the details of their situation. Only when you have the facts can you make a good decision for your family. There might even be a psychological eval. in place (or planned) for the elder girl...that would give you a diagnosis and good insight into her issues. Given the fact that you are a biological relative interested in a placement, I'm certain that child services would be interested in talking to you!!

 

As a foster parent I have to agree. Contact the caseworker yourself to inquire about the situation. They would rather send a child to live with relatives (even across statelines) if it means the child will be safe and no longer "in the system".

 

The requirements for a relative placement are not the same as the requirement for a non-relative placement.

 

Also if the children are already in a foster home, their foster family may be interested in adopting them, despite the older girl's situation.

 

In the situations I have seen for an child with behavior problems that therapy and medication can not help, they usually are moved to a group home. Sometimes these type of children are harder to place in a permanent home and do "age out" of the system (meaning live in the group home until the turn 18).

 

If you are feeling lead to do something, please contact the caseworker to find out all the details you can so that you can make an informed decision.

[Denisemomof4]

You REALLY need to do your homework before you seriously consider taking them in. To be labeled unadoptable because of behavioral problems is a very, VERY serious thing. I don't think it even occurs often. Maybe the two girls need to be separated for the younger sibling's protection. Maybe the older girl has already harmed her.

 

In any case, you need to get the facts from the state and not the sister. Even then, social workers lie ALL THE TIME so they can place kids.

 

Check into reactive attachment disorder. Maybe the 10 year old has this and it is causing problems. It's beyond depressing to think these issues were caused while living with her birth mom. I have an adopted child with these issues which were caused by neglect/abuse in an orphanage. She has serious issues including PTSD. This mother obviously has horrendously failed her kids to first have them taken away, and second have one labeled unadoptable because of behavioral problems. Unless it's a mental illness the kid was born with, neglect and trauma/abuse is what caused her issues.

 

What are the ages of your own kids? You need to seriously consider how this will impact them. RAD kids kill animals, abuse people, set homes on fire, steal, constantly lie, constantly lie about abuse - jeopardizing the safety of everyone in the family. I know of several families (not ours) that can't leave their daughter alone in room with the husband because she will make claims of sexual abuse. RAD is a very, very serious mental illness and EVERYONE in the house will be affected by it if she has it, or by her behavioral/mental issues. Although our daughter has never abused the family members in this house, she has issues serious enough that she's never left unattended in the home. EVER. Imagine what it's like to have to to got he bathroom with your daughter in tow for years on end. Imagine having to put her in her room with an alarm on the door if you need a little bit of a break. Imagine what it's like for your children to constantly be taunted by a child who's life's mission is to cause distress - for YEARS on end. My kids lives will never be as peaceful BECAUSE we adopted. But, I do hope that in the end they will be happy we did. And more than that, I hope my youngest will allow her broken little heart to heal one day and KNOW that she's loved, and WORTHY of love.

 

At 10 years of age, a LOT of damage has been done. I've read over and over that it takes the same amount of time in the home to heal/undo the damage that was done. So that means she'll need 10 years of love and healing and therapeutic parenting to heal. She'll be 20 by then. You seriously have to consider if you're cut out to do this, if you are willing to put the happy, peaceful lives of your children at stake, and whether you're willing to risk your marriage. The divorce rate among families who have adopted special needs kids, which she will be, is astronomical. FAR higher than the national average.

 

I hate to sound so negative, truly I do. But I know how I saw adoption through rose colored glasses and fantasized and romanticized it all. Our reality is far different. I felt that our love would be more than sufficient for ANY child. I did not know my dd would fight against my love Every Single Day. It absolutely never occurred to me that a child wouldn't thrive in our home. Ever. I now belong to several online support groups and it's TOUGH raising these kids. it's been good for me personally, too, but knowing what i know, I could never adopt a 10 year old knowing that they had severe behavioral issues. If she's been labeled as such, she likely will put the safety of your kids, and possibly you and husband, at risk.

 

Do you have any idea what caused this damage to the 10 year old? What did that mother do? It's so tragic.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Denisemomof4

[Murmer]

Another thing to consider is where in the process everyone is...there is a section of time when bio family can come in but thyme must be able to prove that their home is an appropriate home for the child. I am sure yours is but it could require fingerprints or a social worker coming to your home. Also they may already be working a permanency plan with the current foster parents of the 4 yr old, which could mean that the time for bio family to come forth may be over. So I highly recommend that if you arentruly interested you call now and document that you made an inquiry.

[Momto5]

What a difficult situation. I admire you for even considering taking in your nieces. We were foster parents for about 10 years. I really encourage you to contact social services in the county where your sister-in-law resides. Hopefully, you can get additional information that can help you make your decision. It seems to me there are just so many unknowns.

 

In advance of a call to social services, I would write out a list of your questions. This will help you organize your thoughts and make sure you don't forget to ask something during the course of the conversation.

 

Finally, the organization North American Council on Adoptable Children has a good website with state specific information. As you are probably aware, foster care/social services laws vary from state to state in terms of placement, relative placements, etc.

 

Good luck to you.

[manylilblessings]

Here's the description of "unadoptable" from the CA code.

 

It's from this link:

 

http://www.childadoptionlaws.com/child_adoption_laws/adoption_laws_california.htm

 

FAMILY.CODE SECTION 9100-9102

 

 

9100. (a) If a child adopted pursuant to the law of this state shows evidence of a developmental disability or mental illness as a result of conditions existing before the adoption to an extent that the child cannot be relinquished to an adoption agency on the grounds that the child is considered unadoptable, and of which conditions the adoptive parents or parent had no knowledge or notice before the entry of the order of adoption, a petition setting forth those facts may be filed by the adoptive parents or parent with the court that granted the adoption petition. If these facts are proved to the satisfaction of the court, it may make an order setting aside the order of adoption. (b) The petition shall be filed within five years after the entry of the order of adoption. © The court clerk shall immediately notify the department at Sacramento of the petition. Within 60 days after the notice, the department shall file a full report with the court and shall appear before the court for the purpose of representing the adopted child.

[Harriet Vane]

:iagree:

[RanchGirl]

It sounds like you don't know if she has been officially labeled "unadoptable", or if the mother's case worker was trying to encourage her to get her act together by informing her that it would be harder to find adoptive parents for the 10 year old. I would get in touch with the children's case worker (by calling that county's child services department, not by contacting the biomother) and ask for information. If they will consider you for adoption, they must give you full disclosure of everything that's going on and anything they know about the children and their history -- at least that is the case in our state. Then you would probably need a homestudy (a background check and interview of your family in your home by a social worker), a visit to meet the girls, etc.... but you don't even know if the girls are in foster care or what right now so you definitely need more information.

 

RAD is scary and definitely something you should research but first find out what the actual situation is for these girls, then you and your husband can make your decisions about proceeding.

[Dobela]

There are many reasons why a child is labeled unadoptable or potentially unadoptable. Sometimes it is just age. Most folks wanting to adopt want a child under age 6. Sometimes it is race/ethnicity of the child. Sometimes it is a combination of factors. If she has serious behavior problems, it could be any number of thigns from unstable environment, anger over being away from her mom, reaction to years of abuse, and so much more.

 

If you adopt across state lines, you will have to have a home study done by the social services agency in your state and have it sent to the other state. Sometimes they allow private homestudies, sometimes not. A homestudy can be a breeze, or one of the most invasive time consumming experiences of your life. At some point you will also be expected to travel to the other state for visitation(s) and at least one court hearing.

 

Only you know what is right for your family and those children. :grouphug:

[AnitaMcC]

I don't know anything about adoption, but we had state granted legal guardianship of my sister's two youngest kids. We got them when niece was 11 almost 12 and nephew just turned 9 (this was nearly 12 yrs ago).

 

But we live in same state as my sister... my sister was/is an inpatient in mental nursing home placed by the state... and my sister granted permission for us to take care of her kids. We didn't have to worry about her showing up on our door step, we didn't have to worry about her trying to take the kids back.

 

About a year after the kids moved in with us, we called DCFS about getting state granted guardianship or adoption. We would have had to pay for adoption proceedings and have my sisters parent rights removed and then deal with their fathers. Instead we were able to get help from extended family services, Catholic Charities operated the program and DCFS refers families to them. Catholic Charities supplied/paid the lawyer and paid court fees for us to get state legal guardianship.. it was about $800 for each of the kids.

 

But because we didn't go with adoption, we could not put them on our health insurance, nor could we homeschool them, nor move out of state without going to court for approval first.. they were considered state wards. We could not receive $$ from DCFS as the kids were never in foster care (and if we went for adoption, DCFS would have had to take the kids from our home until we were approved to be a foster care family and we didn't want the kids to be put through that when it wasn't necessary... no one was contesting us caring for the kids). But because the kids were on public aid with my sister.. we did get an allowance of $100 a month for each, state medical coverage, and they were qualified to receive free lunch at school and have all school fees waived. But because they were state wards and at age 18/graduate from high school, they were considered independent students for college... only their income/finances mattered for financial aid... so they were able to get full state aid to cover tuition.

[AnitaMcC]

RAD kids kill animals, abuse people, set homes on fire, steal, constantly lie, constantly lie about abuse - jeopardizing the safety of everyone in the family. I know of several families (not ours) that can't leave their daughter alone in room with the husband because she will make claims of sexual abuse. RAD is a very, very serious mental illness and EVERYONE in the house will be affected by it if she has it, or by her behavioral/mental issues. Although our daughter has never abused the family members in this house, she has issues serious enough that she's never left unattended in the home. EVER. Imagine what it's like to have to to got he bathroom with your daughter in tow for years on end. Imagine having to put her in her room with an alarm on the door if you need a little bit of a break. Imagine what it's like for your children to constantly be taunted by a child who's life's mission is to cause distress - for YEARS on end.

 

 

RAD also has various levels of severity... my nephew was dx with mild RAD when he was 11yrs old. Up till this point he was dx with ADHD and ODD (dx when he was 4yrs old).

 

Yes it was hard on us all in dealing with his behaviors, he was a challenge, yes there were aggressive tendencies. We had to watch him constantly, we could not let him share a bedroom with our kids (wouldn't work well anyway since our twins were 3 when nephew moved in with us at age 9). We had to have him hospitalized a few times... but it was more to do with trying to find the right dx and medications for him. After the month long hospitalization when he was in 6th grade, he was dx'd with ADHD, mild RAD, ODD (bipolar, intermittent rage disorder). Now at age 20 (21 in August) he still has issues but he is doing okay and hasn't needed any medications since he was 16. So I doubt he has bipolar even though doctors dx'd him that at age 11. He definitely has ADHD, but he has come a loooong way. Much of what he is like now is pretty much "normal" for a very young adult who just doesn't know what he wants to do and has low self-esteem. He is learning to find his way and is considering joining the Navy. The RAD is still there... he still can't fully have a deep meaningful relationship, but he starting to get there. He has learned to connect a little with my Dh and his brother and sister. He struggles with me but then I remind him of his mom (my sister) and that just hurts too much I think. Not all that unusual for someone growing up like he had as a young child.

[Joker]

I made some calls today and there is nothing we can do. There is a lot I did not know and now just have to find some peace with the decisions made. Thanks to everyone for the help and kind words!

[Starr]

I made some calls today and there is nothing we can do. There is a lot I did not know and now just have to find some peace with the decisions made. Thanks to everyone for the help and kind words!

 

:grouphug:

[Denisemomof4]

RAD also has various levels of severity... my nephew was dx with mild RAD when he was 11yrs old. Up till this point he was dx with ADHD and ODD (dx when he was 4yrs old).

 

 

 

you are right. I mentioned the worst because I, personally, had never heard of a kid labeled unadoptable, so I was assuming the worst.

 

In any event, ANY degree of RAD is hard to deal with and will impact every single person in the family.

 

My heart goes out to your nephew. I do hope one day he can have a deep and meaningful relationship. That's my biggest hope for my daughter.

 

It's VERY common for RAD kids to be misdiagnosed. So many times they're diagnosed with ODD/bipolar, which is why I'm very careful who I'll talk to about my daughter. The professionals we've seen to date have been a complete waste of time.

[Denisemomof4]

I made some calls today and there is nothing we can do. There is a lot I did not know and now just have to find some peace with the decisions made. Thanks to everyone for the help and kind words!

 

I'm really sorry. I pray those kids can eventually have happy and peaceful lives.

[manylilblessings]

That's heartbreaking. I, like you, have a heart for children who aren't in loving homes. At some point, we have to set our feelings and our desire to rescue them aside, and in so doing, provide the best home for the children we already have.

 

It's such a tragedy that children have to face these things, and lose faith in their parents.

[Teachin'Mine]

Praying for the children and all involved.

 

:grouphug:

[Momto5]

I made some calls today and there is nothing we can do. There is a lot I did not know and now just have to find some peace with the decisions made. Thanks to everyone for the help and kind words!

:grouphug: Thank you for letting us know. You have been in my thoughts and prayers. I hope you are able to find peace in this difficult situation.