So sad...

[pqr]

After giving this some thought, I realized how ridiculous this is. You are saying that a Naval Officer is walking around asking young officers "Name all the oceans off the top of your head right now!! Go!" and the officer replies "Ah, OK, give me a second. Let me see, there is Atlantic and Pacific. Hold on, don't tell me. I know, I know. Indian. Now what is that other one, Oh yes, Arctic!" "Are you sure that's all there are?" "Ah, I think so." "I'm sorry, you forgot the Southern again. You're fired." :lol:

 

 

 

During a Officer of the Deck Board.......Yes. (Please read the post…. I stated during a board)

 

You are defending the indefensible and now speaking about something of which you obviously know nothing. The gentleman with whom I spoke is not ridiculous, he is not a liar but then again he is not...how did you describe yourself... oh yes....a Columbia Grad on the Dean's list, a published author in the field of education, 99.9% on several of the graduate standardized exams, 97% percent on wordsmart, have taught at the graduate level, and a self-made millionaire....therefore I suppose his professional opinion, years of service on warships and word is, in your eyes, ridiculous.

[Spy Car]

LOL, the B's were my guesses too. If I had to guess just one I'd go with Budapest.

 

Seems like the most obvious choice, still I can imagine PQR in Belgrade.

 

Bill

[pqr]

I think it's ridiculous to assert that nobody should bother memorizing the continents and the oceans. Seriously, put together there are only 12. That cannot possibly take more than 10 minutes to memorize.

 

....

 

And yes, I do think less of people who don't know that Egypt is part of Africa or that Australia is in the Southern Hemisphere. I think some things *are* basic knowledge.

 

Granted, if you lived in many places you'd only have 6 continents to memorize because many European countries count North and South America as one continent.

 

 

This rarely happens but....... Mrs Mungo and I are in full agreement.

[Jorsay]

I think it's ridiculous to assert that nobody should bother memorizing the continents and the oceans. Seriously, put together there are only 12. That cannot possibly take more than 10 minutes to memorize.

 

I memorized them once. At some point, I forgot them. Should I test myself each morning, or each week to make certain I don't forget again?

 

Again. I am not against memorizing anything. I am arguing against the idea that I or those kids are a disgrace because we forgot the oceans. I am arguing against the idea that it is somehow better NOT to verify information when it is important to be correct and verification is convenient.

[Spy Car]

This rarely happens but....... Mrs Mungo and I are in full agreement.

 

I should avoid jumping in, or the world might go off-axis :lol:

 

Bill

[melissel]

I'm a geography dolt. We moved when I was a kid, and my old school hadn't covered much geography yet, but my new school had, and I'd missed it. It wasn't until I was a teenager that I realized there was a gap in my knowledge, and I've just learned things as I've needed them. I graduated college with 3.7, have held a steady job where I'm considered a valuable employee (a little too valuable actually :glare:), can discourse intelligently about politics and the world around me, yet I couldn't label the oceans on a blank map if you paid me. I couldn't label many of the states either, and I certainly couldn't tell you any of the capitals of the states other than the ones I've lived in. I've traveled internationally and within the US and done just fine. Maps are handy tools. I don't really feel that I'm a great disadvantage in this life, nor do I feel disconnected from the "grand conversation." I am, however, at an occasional disadvantage when playing Pictionary and Trivial Pursuit.

 

I'm going to have to come down on Jorsay's side in this one *shrug* Not that I think most of our schools are doing a stellar job or anything, but I'm just not surprised at a class of students who opened their books to fill in a blank map when that was an acceptable option, and I don't think it's a disgrace.

[Jorsay]

During a Officer of the Deck Board.......Yes. (Please read the post…. I stated during a board)

 

You are defending the indefensible and now speaking about something of which you obviously know nothing. The gentleman with whom I spoke is not ridiculous, he is not a liar but then again he is not...how did you describe yourself... oh yes....a Columbia Grad on the Dean's list, a published author in the field of education, 99.9% on several of the graduate standardized exams, 97% percent on wordsmart, have taught at the graduate level, and a self-made millionaire....therefore I suppose his professional opinion, years of service on warships and word is, in your eyes, ridiculous.

 

I am not doubting some (perhaps) mythical gentleman's word. I am doubting yours, or perhaps your ability and willingness to represent my side of the argument to him.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Jorsay

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I for one. If you want to my statement out of context it sounds ridiculous, but it is absolutely true that no ship captain, navigator, etc... woud be fired if he couldn't list all the oceans. You are assuming that because he can't list them, he is somehow stupid in other ways, like he can't find them, he can't look them up, he can't read a map, etc...

 

] Why do you NEED to know ALL of them? to be popular at parties and on internet forums. How could you possibly know all of them?] Of course the point is that that much time does not exist. ] No. I am defending intelligence. It is intelligent to verify things. It is intelligent not to occupy your time with learning minutia at the expense of learning what is important to you. I am picturing you spending your time combing the internet frantically recording and desparately tying to commit to memory ALL the updates that occur in knowledge in all topics.

 

I am not arguing against knowledge or memorization. I am arguing against the ideas of those who put on aires and pretend their 5 year old is smarter than some adults because their 5 year old knows ALL the oceans, those who deride others who haven't memorized near valueless minutia, those who deride others who wisely verify their knowledge. I am arguing against pseudo-intellectuality. (did I spell that right?)

 

There is no possible defense against someone who refuses to acknowledge that some knowledge isn't just trivia used in party games. For some people geographic knowledge is essential. I expect my doctor to know the names and location of various anatomical structures from memory and not need to look up basic information. If he doesn't know this I would presume that he wouldn't have passed his medical boards. In a similar vein I have expectations for the base set of knowledge possessed by lawyers, fireman, astronomers, and taxi drivers. For some professions basic geographical knowledge should be a given-such as many of those previously listed.

 

As for the personal attack you felt compelled to launch against me...that was just plain ridiculous. As you don't know me or anything about me you making assumptions that both insulting and wrong. If one is involved in the process of life long learning you cannot help but run into the ever changing world of basic information. So yes, if you consider yourself, as an adult, intelligent or intellectual I would expect you to know such basic information. You would have had to be living under a rock to not have heard about the controversy over Pluto or not have picked up a non-fiction book written in the last few years to not have seen the new usage of B.C.E. and C.E. So yes, rather than defend my own ignorance on these topics when I run into them I choose to educate myself. And like Mrs. Mungo above I do think less of someone who doesn't possess certain basic knowledge.

 

Slinging insults such as you seem to be trying to do doesn't win arguments or make your point. It just makes you rather rude. Clearly you have time to keep up on the names of the world's oceans if you have time to throw so much mud at other board posters. I wonder which would be the more constructive use of your time?

[pqr]

I am not doubting some (perhaps) mythical gentleman's word. I am doubting yours.

 

 

And I suppose you may excuse this because you are "a Columbia Grad on the Dean's list, a published author in the field of education, 99.9% on several of the graduate standardized exams, 97% percent on wordsmart, have taught at the graduate level, and a self-made millionaire" of course it is actually because you are again speaking about something of which you obviously know nothing...you are rather good at that.

[Mrs Mungo]

This rarely happens but....... Mrs Mungo and I are in full agreement.

 

I think it actually happens quite often. We disagree strongly in certain areas. However, we are both highly intelligent, have a lot in common and therefore hold a lot of the same things valuable. ;)

 

I memorized them once. At some point, I forgot them. Should I test myself each morning, or each week to make certain I don't forget again?

 

Perhaps, if you think it's required.

 

I am arguing against the idea that it is somehow better NOT to verify information when it is important to be correct and verification is convenient.

 

I wouldn't disagree with that but one should not always *expect* to be able to verify information and that's the problem I have with your argument. My DH can't exactly disrupt an intelligence briefing to go google Djibouti or Kyrgyzstan, he's expected to know their location, geography, the countries surrounding them, how best to get men or supplies into them, etc. He's *expected* to know these things on the spot. To argue that any military officer should just be able to look it up instead of *knowing* the information is crazy.

 

I should avoid jumping in, or the world might go off-axis :lol:

 

Bill

 

Perhaps it already has. The world does feel a little upside down when I'm arguing this on a board named "The Well Trained Mind."

 

I am not doubting some (perhaps) mythical gentleman's word. I am doubting yours.

 

:001_rolleyes:

[mirth]

He's *expected* to know these things on the spot. To argue that any military officer should just be able to look it up instead of *knowing* the information is crazy

 

So do all the "sad" people feel that an American child who calls himself African-American should instantly be able to both identity and locate Africa as a continent on a map or globe? Do you have a greater expectation of this child, than say, a white or Asian child in determining Africa?

 

This is really an open-ended question. (I wrote the quotes because I don't believe you are really sad, disappointed maybe. If you are truly sad, please forgive the quotes.)

[Renai]

The world does feel a little upside down when I'm arguing this on a board named "The Well Trained Mind."

 

 

:iagree: I was debating whether or not I should ask if it's just me, or is it completely unbelievable that there's a heated discussion over what other people should know? :001_huh:

 

I...I think I'll just leave it at that...

[hornblower]

Granted, if you lived in many places you'd only have 6 continents to memorize because many European countries count North and South America as one continent.

 

Then there's the folks who consider Eurasia to be a correct answer.

For real ease, stick to Pangea. :D

 

My father is a merchant navy master mariner aka the "Captain, sir, yes, sir". He knows all his oceans & seas & continents & ports etc etc. I think he'd die of laughter if he thought any crew of ship did not know the oceans and continents. Then he'd probably chuck them off the ship.....

[Mrs Mungo]

So do all the "sad" people feel that an American child who calls himself African-American should instantly be able to both identity and locate Africa as a continent on a map or globe? Do you have a greater expectation of this child, than say, a white or Asian child in determining Africa?

 

No, why would I? I think all children beyond fourth grade should know the continents of the world.

[Jorsay]

And I suppose you may excuse this because you are "a Columbia Grad on the Dean's list, a published author in the field of education, 99.9% on several of the graduate standardized exams, 97% percent on wordsmart, have taught at the graduate level, and a self-made millionaire" of course it is actually because you are again speaking about something of which you obviously know nothing...you are rather good at that.

 

Excuse what? She, like you now, have become quite nasty.

 

She is claiming expertise that she doesn't have. She is claiming that a friend of a friend said something that indicates that I "Obviously know nothing about" I am simply pointing this out (in the same tone of her argument).

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

So do all the "sad" people feel that an American child who calls himself African-American should instantly be able to both identity and locate Africa as a continent on a map or globe? Do you have a greater expectation of this child, than say, a white or Asian child in determining Africa?

 

This is really an open-ended question. (I wrote the quotes because I don't believe you are really sad, disappointed maybe. If you are truly sad, please forgive the quotes.)

 

I think this is a particularly provocative and pot stirring question. The ethnicity of any child in determining their need for education and knowledge is totally irrelevant.

 

All children need a certain amount of basic geography of part of their education. To even suppose otherwise is ridiculous and rude.

 

Mrs. Mungo is referring to the professional needs of an adult in the workplace. And yes, adults have a knowledge base they need for their professions.

[Jorsay]

Then there's the folks who consider Eurasia to be a correct answer.

For real ease, stick to Pangea. :D

 

My father is a merchant navy master mariner aka the "Captain, sir, yes, sir". He knows all his oceans & seas & continents & ports etc etc. I think he'd die of laughter if he thought any crew of ship did not know the oceans and continents. Then he'd probably chuck them off the ship.....

 

so would I or anyone else.

[Jorsay]

I enjoyed this thoroughly. See you all in a few months. :D

[helena]

I think knowing the names of continents and oceans isn't just about a list to memorize, it's a first step in acknowledging that the world is bigger than you and your comfort zone. Lots of people will never need to know these things for work. But how sad that so many people don't value understanding the planet that sustains them, even in the most basic of ways.

 

Things like geography aren't only for the highly intelligent, everyone should be in awe of our little planet. I think not caring in the least bit about geography is way scarier than not knowing all of the names of the oceans and continents. That said blatant ignorance of geography always throws me off. I never know what to say to people who think New Mexico is Mexico for example. :D

[HRAAB]

Sometimes threads such as this give me pause to consider whether I have been wasting my children's time learning certain facts or whether I should be including more. However, when it comes to basic geography of the world in which we are residents, and this discussion is taking on place on a board called The Well Trained Mind, I end up scratching my head.

 

My children will continue to be taught and expected to memorize all the continents and oceans by name, locate them on a globe, plus major rivers, mountain ranges, and countries. And we will continue with our weekly drills on states and capitals. Those poor, tortured kids.

 

I know a couple ladies (via internet) who live in England, and they seem to put much more of an emphasis on geography than we do here in America. I do not recall learning much geography in school (60's/70's). My dad (went to school in the 30's/40's) was appalled by the lack of geography we had in school and made sure my sister and I were knew geography. Maybe this went hand in hand with eliminating memory work from the classroom, or at least that was my experience.

[MBM]

Okay, I'm back from my Hershey's Kisses run! Miraculously, the bag has remained sealed. :D

 

Jorsay, I think you are a good sport for sticking around and defending your position. All too often, message board arguments turn into cyber pie-throwing contests, and what fun is that if you can't actually eat the pie?

 

Although this thread touches upon one of my favorite topics (we afterschool and the teachers who know me can vouch for that), I have spent too much time here as well. Afterall, there are cookies waiting to be baked and, more importantly, eaten!

 

[creekland]

However, when it comes to basic geography of the world in which we are residents, and this discussion is taking on place on a board called The Well Trained Mind, I end up scratching my head.

 

 

 

Actually, I've come to the conclusion by reading through the rest of this that we've been had by a troll... :)

 

It has been an interesting read though.

[pqr]

Actually, I've come to the conclusion by reading through the rest of this that we've been had by a troll... :)

 

It has been an interesting read though.

 

In rereading, I think you are correct. No one could actually make the arguments made here with a straight face.