Controlling vs. Appropriate Supervision

[Jean in Newcastle]

I've had a number of posts lately on tomato staking my tween (due to his recent behavior). I had a good friend ask me yesterday if I was being too controlling or not. Now, I'm confident that what I'm giving is just appropriate supervision but it did make me think.

 

What is the different between a controlling parent and one that give appropriate supervision? I know there is often a wide range in the WWYD threads. So where is the boundary line between the two? I want my teens to have increasing amounts of choice as they grow, so that they can learn to make choices and yet I want to keep them from going down the wrong path as well.

What do you think?

[newbie]

What is tomato staking?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Tomato staking is keeping your child under close supervision. It may be in the form of them working with you on projects or it may be that you are just in close proximity to them.

[newbie]

Thanks for the definition.

 

I , personally believe that is up to the individual. I have been "controlling", but I ground them w/godly and good morals. So when they are off the leash, I am confident good decisions will be made.

 

I only have eighteen years, after that I pray they will follow God and make the right decisions.

[amy g.]

First, I see if there is some good reason, or cause to be afraid the child might go astray.

 

I have more limits on my 15 year old, than others might, because she is really very unaware that other people might be dangerous. Until I feel like she can keep herself safe, I'm going to keep her safe.

 

I have fewer limits on my 13 year old than most people do, but his every action shows me how honest, and respectful and smart he is. Why should I use his age as a guide instead of his ability and track record?

 

I also judge each situation. I trust my son, but I don't trust his Boy Scout adult leaders to protect him to my standards, so he always has a parent on the premises just in case. I find that this has also cut down on bullying. A kid with very noticeably present parents is less of a target.

 

On the other hand, I do trust his summer camp, so I let him fly across the country, and stay gone for a month of glorious freedom.

[hillfarm]

While my emotional reaction is control, control, control, I logically realize that it is highly overrated. TS only works as long as the stake never sleeps, uses the facilities, gets an important phone call, or needs to attend to other personal, private needs. The minute the child is out of eyeshot, there's no telling what they might do.

 

IMO, we have to help the child choose to change their heart. Vigilance is not a substitute for training. Because, to be honest, I know that I will never be able to keep up the necessary level of scrutiny for as long as it is needed. I want a child who turns away from bad behavior on her own, with me there as an added backup insurance policy. I'm still working on how to get that child.

 

I think it is also important to keep TSing for the purpose of punishment separate from TSing as a method of teaching. I'm not a great fan of either, but I can see how easy it would be to accidentally blend the two motivations and end up with a very muddy and ineffective response to a behavior problem.

 

I have lots of theories, as my only dd is just 11yo. I am sure I will become more clueless as the teen years come upon us. That's why I follow all these tween and teen parenting threads with great interest. For now, I am just trying to pack in as much experiential "training" as possible.

[dirty ethel rackham]

 

I think it is also important to keep TSing for the purpose of punishment separate from TSing as a method of teaching. I'm not a great fan of either, but I can see how easy it would be to accidentally blend the two motivations and end up with a very muddy and ineffective response to a behavior problem.

 

 

I think you are missing another element of TS as I see practiced here - reconnecting and developing the relationship between the child and the parent. Helping to find where the child has needs and working to address them. It isn't just about changing behavior but about changing the heart through the relationship.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Thanks for the definition.

 

I ground them w/godly and good morals. So when they are off the leash, I am confident good decisions will be made.

 

I only have eighteen years, after that I pray they will follow God and make the right decisions.

 

So true. I am glad that I homeschool precisely because that allows me to naturally demonstrate and teach godly decision making.

 

First, I see if there is some good reason, or cause to be afraid the child might go astray.

 

 

I also judge each situation.

 

Good principles to follow. Thank you.

 

While my emotional reaction is control, control, control, I logically realize that it is highly overrated. TS only works as long as the stake never sleeps, uses the facilities, gets an important phone call, or needs to attend to other personal, private needs. The minute the child is out of eyeshot, there's no telling what they might do.

 

IMO, we have to help the child choose to change their heart. Vigilance is not a substitute for training. Because, to be honest, I know that I will never be able to keep up the necessary level of scrutiny for as long as it is needed. I want a child who turns away from bad behavior on her own, with me there as an added backup insurance policy. I'm still working on how to get that child.

 

I think it is also important to keep TSing for the purpose of punishment separate from TSing as a method of teaching. I'm not a great fan of either, but I can see how easy it would be to accidentally blend the two motivations and end up with a very muddy and ineffective response to a behavior problem.

 

 

 

Yes, I do really want a changed heart. I guess I felt like I've let my son have more freedom right now than he has capacity for. Thus the reining back in with tomato staking while he gets regrounded in our values. Then I will loosen the reins a bit but not too much too soon so that he can handle the responsibility that comes with the freedom that he has been given.

[Peela]

One way I like to navigate the issue is...how am I feeling as I dish out the commands and consequences? Am I contracted, unhappy, or coming out of love? It's easy to "justify" control and all sorts of ways of being with children when we ourselves are in pain...but it doesn't mean its in the child's best interests.

Setting boundaries is one thing, and an important one. I see being controlling as coming from fear, emotional wounding, sometimes anger- another way of saying.....is it in the child's best interests only, or are you reacting from your own conditioning? I am not sure how to put it more clearly.

I think we joke too much about being controlling, really, and in reality, it hurts the child, who is a whole being in their own right.

On the other hand, I don't have a problem with tomato staking in itself. Whats more important is where are you coming from when you do it? Does the child feel loved, included and forgiven, yet temporarily restricted- or are you holding a grudge and making sure they know it (in at least subtle ways). Tomato staking is not meant to be punishment or to make the child feel bad about themeslves. It is setting a clear boundary- a boundary which will extend as the child learns to manage their own behaviour within the boundary set.

I know theres a fine line between setting boundaries and controlling..and it doesnt really matter what terms you use...it's more about being honest about whose interests you really have in mind...many people think they are being loving while emotionally dumping on the child and controlling them out of their own pain. Weve all done it. I am just challenging the mindset which says it's ok just because we all do it, I guess.

[Night Elf]

What is the different between a controlling parent and one that give appropriate supervision?

 

I've read there are some different degrees of tomato staking. There is a website that offers more information.

 

My personal opinion is the tomato-staking is done for the sake of the child, and parenting in a controlling manner is done for the sake of the parents.

[MamaT]

I agree with Night Elf. It has to do with the intention of the tomato staking. Jean, I have read enough posts of yours to know that you are doing what you think is best for your son. You have good mothering instincts, so do what your gut is telling you to do.

[Beth in OH]

.....yet I want to keep them from going down the wrong path as well.

 

In the end, our dc choose their own path no matter what. For me, I had to face my own fears about what would happen if my dc "chose the wrong path" and turn them over to God. He is there with them, just as He has always been there with me. I can't control my dc's decisions about the path they choose, and trying to restrict behavior so that they can't choose the wrong path (especially as the teens become older) puts me in God's place. Even God gives us freedom to choose His way or not.

 

Beth

[Jean in Newcastle]

Does the child feel loved, included and forgiven, yet temporarily restricted- or are you holding a grudge and making sure they know it (in at least subtle ways). Tomato staking is not meant to be punishment or to make the child feel bad about themeslves. It is setting a clear boundary- a boundary which will extend as the child learns to manage their own behaviour within the boundary set.

I know theres a fine line between setting boundaries and controlling..and it doesnt really matter what terms you use...it's more about being honest about whose interests you really have in mind...many people think they are being loving while emotionally dumping on the child and controlling them out of their own pain. Weve all done it. I am just challenging the mindset which says it's ok just because we all do it, I guess.

 

Very good points, Peela. I can see that at times I've done it right (with the child's interest at heart) and at times I've emotionally dumped on the child. This is a good check for a mama.

 

My personal opinion is the tomato-staking is done for the sake of the child, and parenting in a controlling manner is done for the sake of the parents.

 

Another good point. I need to keep these distinctions clear in my mind.

 

I agree with Night Elf. It has to do with the intention of the tomato staking. Jean, I have read enough posts of yours to know that you are doing what you think is best for your son. You have good mothering instincts, so do what your gut is telling you to do.

 

Thanks, MamaT. I try, but of course sometimes I do mess up.

 

In the end, our dc choose their own path no matter what. For me, I had to face my own fears about what would happen if my dc "chose the wrong path" and turn them over to God. He is there with them, just as He has always been there with me. I can't control my dc's decisions about the path they choose, and trying to restrict behavior so that they can't choose the wrong path (especially as the teens become older) puts me in God's place. Even God gives us freedom to choose His way or not.

 

Beth

 

You are so right, Beth. But I think we do have a responsibility to at least show them the right path. I see my adult nieces and nephews - I can tell the ones who had clear boundaries as children and the ones who didn't to some degree at least. in the choices they are now making as adults. And yet, I know the pain of the parent who has given good guidance and yet their child chooses to make some really bad choices, some with pretty major consequences.

[Night Elf]

You are so right, Beth. But I think we do have a responsibility to at least show them the right path. I see my adult nieces and nephews - I can tell the ones who had clear boundaries as children and the ones who didn't to some degree at least. in the choices they are now making as adults. And yet, I know the pain of the parent who has given good guidance and yet their child chooses to make some really bad choices, some with pretty major consequences.

 

I'm not sure exactly how you are defining the right path but I think that 'right' can be seen differently. For example, we've seen many people on this board talk about how their families think homeschooling is akin to child neglect. I think college is a personal choice and I am not pushing my dd17 about it. Her dad and stepmom are telling her she will be a nobody with no chance at a real job if she doesn't go.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm not sure exactly how you are defining the right path but I think that 'right' can be seen differently. For example, we've seen many people on this board talk about how their families think homeschooling is akin to child neglect. I think college is a personal choice and I am not pushing my dd17 about it. Her dad and stepmom are telling her she will be a nobody with no chance at a real job if she doesn't go.

 

Oh - I didn't mean individual choices like career path, what kind of music/books they like, hobbies etc. I mean right path in the sense of moral right according to the Bible. So as long as their career path was not to be stripper, to listen to Neo - Nazi music or read p*rn and have a hobby of robbing banks, I will be fine. And even my love of course would be still there even if I might be disappointed in their choices at some point.