Phonics for a self-taught reader

[Tangerine]

My DD reads quite easily and quickly. She has not, however, been taught. Aside from reading books to her, and some tv shows and starfall.com, there has been no phonics instruction. I would love a recommendation of a phonics program to make sure all the bases are covered, but not bore her to tears. Maybe something without a lot of repetition that we can move quickly through the concepts she already understands. Thanks!

[neveryoumindthere]

No advice but I'll be checking in for replies. I'm in the same boat. 6yo reading at a grade 5ish level, if I even say the word phonics she literally runs away.lol

[King Alfred Academy]

My son "taught" himself to read but I still wanted him to have a foundation of phonics. He is working through the ETC workbooks as well as using a phonics based spelling program (Phonetic Zoo) which seems to be just what I thought he was missing. :001_smile:

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Not sure if it matters or not, but he is 8yo with a 9th grade reading level/comprehension and was self taught at 4yo)

Edited November 10, 2009 by King Alfred Academy

[thowell]

I could have written your post. My dd6 is the same way. We are doing Progressive phonics. It is free online and she likes the little stories. She reads through one in a single read but then we go over it a few times during the week. I have found a few things she did not know and was simply reading these words from memory so it has worked out well.

[matrips]

we started our little ones with AAS (All About Spelling). so far so good. they like the hands on tile work and spelling words. I like that they are learning phonics along with spelling. it is a complete phonics program, but it is geared towards learning how to spell, and not how to read. even though they are great readers, they couldn't have told me the four sounds of 'o' etc. and they're having to slow down and listen more to hear the distinction between words and letters.

[sarahv]

IF I had a child who read without being taught (which I do NOT have at this point...) :D

 

I would just take her through a really solid spelling program instead of doing phonics. I would think that a child already reading at a 5th grade level would be bored to tears with a phonics program. Maybe not. I'm just guessing. But spelling is just phonics backwards, and a good program would include all the rules and many of the exceptions.

 

Anyway. It's just an idea...

[lauracolumbus]

I've struggled with this as well. I just have her do SWO B and go over the spelling/phonics rules w/her. I also found a fun phonics word search and go over the rule again before I let her do the word search--often while waiting in the doc's office or something--each just takes a minute or two. I'm afraid that I've neglected something, but her reading just gets better. In LCC, Drew says to just keep reading, so that gives me some assurance.

 

Laura

[Annie Laurie]

Three out of four of my children taught themselves to read. The fourth just needed a basic intro to letter sounds and blending and then took off. None really went through a phonics program. They all read very well.

 

But it bothers me that they don't have the phonics, so I've tried various things over the years: ETC, but that got boring after the first three books and one kid refused to use it. AAS, which I do think is a great spelling program, but the cost and the time spent on it (years!), puts me off. Two of the kids have done the first two levels of AAS and I will continue with it if it seems like the only program that will get phonics and spelling rules down for them. I've learned some new things from AAS myself.

 

But we're taking a month or two off and trying Elizabeth B's online phonics lessons followed by her spelling lessons and then I will reevaluate from there. We did the first two phonics lessons today and I think they may go too fast for very young kids, (like my 5 yo), but they are perfect for my 7 & 9 yr olds.

[Heidi]

OPGTR covers everything. The phonics rule is at the top by the lesson number. There is a list of words to read that follow the phonics rule, then a few sentences using those words. A lesson can take just a few minutes. It's very straight forward. I like it:001_smile:

[Lovedtodeath]

This website might help you:

 

Teaching Remedial Students

This page explains how to teach a remedial student (a student who has been taught to read with whole word methods or an incomplete phonics program that uses too many sight words) how to read.

 

My DD has had partial phonics instruction, she hasn't had any problems, but like you I am not comfortable with it. I am using spelling to get her a more solid base in phonics.

[newlifemom]

we started our little ones with AAS (All About Spelling). so far so good. they like the hands on tile work and spelling words. I like that they are learning phonics along with spelling. it is a complete phonics program, but it is geared towards learning how to spell, and not how to read. even though they are great readers, they couldn't have told me the four sounds of 'o' etc. and they're having to slow down and listen more to hear the distinction between words and letters.

 

 

:iagree: and while a pp mentioned time and cost, I think it is worth it. Of course I also think the Meeting in Saxon Math is the most important thing even though it is time consuming so I could be[ok probably] crazy. :tongue_smilie:

 

I do like AAS and am considering it for teaching dd3 to read when she is older.

[Lovedtodeath]

I don't find AAS that time consuming or expensive. I am quite pleasantly surprised. I bought it used and I have found that I do not need the cards (a big part of the expense). I plan to make my own for the Key cards and we never use the others. Once you get the hang of it and realize that one lesson could take a week, it is not all that time consuming either. It would be less time consuming to not teach spelling, but if you are teaching it, well...

[Tangerine]

Thanks, everyone. I really appreciate the input.

[ElizabethB]

I just updated my "How to Tutor" page so everything you need is linked at the end. It has phonics, spelling, and syllable division rules and how to use Blend Phonics to transition into Webster's Speller. You can work through it in an hour or two if you just do a few words from each unit and go over the rules. I'd read and spell a few words from each unit--the units at the end have several different things covered, the first units just have one, just watch out for that and make sure you cover all the sounds and spellings in each unit.

 

While it's meant for a group of remedial students, the simple, nicely organized layout also makes it nice for an advanced student who you just want to make sure knows all the sounds and all the rules. It covers everything but suffix rules, there are just so many I didn't write them all out. They are in my Phonics Lesson 22, or in some of these links if you prefer a written list, the best suffix list is the David Appleyard list:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77560

[Annie Laurie]

I don't find AAS that time consuming or expensive. I am quite pleasantly surprised. I bought it used and I have found that I do not need the cards (a big part of the expense). I plan to make my own for the Key cards and we never use the others. Once you get the hang of it and realize that one lesson could take a week, it is not all that time consuming either. It would be less time consuming to not teach spelling, but if you are teaching it, well...

 

You have one kid you're using it with, right? I wouldn't find that time consuming or expensive either. I have 4 kids, so when I have to buy a level plus additional student packs, it gets really expensive. I did the math and if I were to buy all 6 levels with extra packs, it would be over $400. And that wasn't even with buying a student pack for each kid, some of the youngers would reuse things the olders were done with. I think $400 is very expensive for one sub-set of LA.

 

Also, even spending 15 min per lesson, when I have 4 kids, that's an hour of our time just on spelling. It's all a matter of priorities. Some things I will stick with the more time consuming program, such as RightStart, because for us, it's worth it. But that's going to be different for everyone. I don't believe that AAS is the only way to teach spelling right. Are the only choices AAS or no spelling?

[The Governess]

we started our little ones with AAS (All About Spelling). so far so good. they like the hands on tile work and spelling words. I like that they are learning phonics along with spelling. it is a complete phonics program, but it is geared towards learning how to spell, and not how to read. even though they are great readers, they couldn't have told me the four sounds of 'o' etc. and they're having to slow down and listen more to hear the distinction between words and letters.

 

This is what we are using. Dd5 is reading at a nearly 4th grade level and ETC 5 was just busy work for her except for the part where she actually had to spell the words. We started AAS last month and it is exactly what we needed. She is learning phonics rules but also learning a new skill (spelling) and so it keeps it interesting for her and gives her a reason to actually learn the rules (what's the point in learning a phonics rule when you can already read the words fine without "knowing" it?) :001_smile:

[MeAndTheBoys]

My DD reads quite easily and quickly. She has not, however, been taught. Aside from reading books to her, and some tv shows and starfall.com, there has been no phonics instruction. I would love a recommendation of a phonics program to make sure all the bases are covered, but not bore her to tears. Maybe something without a lot of repetition that we can move quickly through the concepts she already understands. Thanks!

 

I let my son goes on his own until around the time he turned 6--we did do Explode the Code, but no real phonics.

 

We picked up Pathway REaders this year, the 2nd grade level--he reads on about a 5th grade level now, but the phonics in 2nd grade is more of a good match for him. He loves the stories, and the workbook is set up the same every day--which to ME seems tedious, but he likes to do it--he knows what to expect and can get through it quickly.

 

I have noticed a huge difference in his spelling ability and decoding ability since we picked up phonics this year. Pathway used the diacritical (?) symbols, which I thought would be terrible but he seems to enjoy it as a "code".

 

Betsy

[2_girls_mommy]

I had one of these too! She was reading Magic Treehouse books to herself w/full comprehension before the end of K, w/out having had a formal phonics program. She was doing it phonetically, just from how I had told her as she read. She had no problem w/advanced phonics things either, if I told her once, she got it.

 

But just to make sure we had all of our bases covered, we started Rod and Staff phonics at end of her K year. She started w/section 2 (section 1 is very basic consanent skills, 2 starts w/long vowels.) She did the grade 1 phonics over the course of the end of K and through her 1st grade year. She is now in 2nd grade, and doing the 2nd grade phonics which is all review, but good review. It takes her all of about 5 min. a day to review these skills.

 

We did R&S because I use a lot of their other stuff, and I think it is a solid phonics program. She has not minded a bit using phonics even though she is a good reader. (We do not do the reading or spelling at her grade from them because it is too basic for her, but I did want to finish the full phonics program.) Ditto w/ English for her, and most of her subjects. Even though she has picked up a lot of things organically, which is her nature, she still gains practice and skills by going through a program. She doesn't mind.

[monalisa]

And ended up using OPGTR (starting in lesson 42) and AAS level 1. It has worked well. We're now on lesson 105 or so in OPG and over halfway through AAS 1. I originally wasted my money on a more traditional phonics program which was a complete BUST (tooooo easy and boring for her) and then I ordered OPG which we spend about 10 minutes a day on. We do AAS 3 times a week or so for about 15 - 20 minutes.

 

I generally like AAS, but the tiles make me a little crazy (it is truly much faster for dd to write the letters) and they fall off the white board (mounted on the wall) much too easily.

[Lovedtodeath]

You have one kid you're using it with, right? I wouldn't find that time consuming or expensive either. I have 4 kids, so when I have to buy a level plus additional student packs, it gets really expensive. I did the math and if I were to buy all 6 levels with extra packs, it would be over $400. And that wasn't even with buying a student pack for each kid, some of the youngers would reuse things the olders were done with. I think $400 is very expensive for one sub-set of LA.

 

Also, even spending 15 min per lesson, when I have 4 kids, that's an hour of our time just on spelling. It's all a matter of priorities. Some things I will stick with the more time consuming program, such as RightStart, because for us, it's worth it. But that's going to be different for everyone. I don't believe that AAS is the only way to teach spelling right. Are the only choices AAS or no spelling?

There are other ways to teach spelling. Using a spelling program to remediate phonics, however, is going to take your time. There are other ways to do that as well, but I would bet that they are going to require some time out of the teacher. I addressed the student packs in my post. I don't even use it; I don't feel that it is needed. You can also get it used for less than half price.

 

I started out very opposed to AAS. How to Teach Spelling has all of the same information. It is also harder (for me at this time) to use, less incremental, has too many sight words, and requires a lot of writing. I was trying to use HTTS when I found AAS for a very good price and decided to give it a go.

 

I think that I would have switched to Elizabeth B's resources including the Webster's Speller if I hadn't picked up AAS.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[Annie Laurie]

There are other ways to teach spelling. Using a spelling program to remediate phonics, however, is going to take your time. There are other ways to do that as well, but I would bet that they are going to require some time out of the teacher. I addressed the student packs in my post. I don't even use it; I don't feel that it is needed. You can also get it used for less than half price.

 

I started out very opposed to AAS. How to Teach Spelling has all of the same information. It is also harder (for me at this time) to use, less incremental, has too many sight words, and requires a lot of writing. I was trying to use HTTS when I found AAS for a very good price and decided to give it a go.

 

I think that I would have switched to Elizabeth B's resources including the Webster's Speller if I hadn't picked up AAS.

 

Of course anything worthwhile is going to require some time out of the teacher. I find AAS overwhelming though in that there are 6 levels which could take years and years.

 

How do you use AAS without the student packs, wouldn't you be missing all the cards to review? I don't think skipping them would work out for me but I admire your organizational skills since you manage without them.

 

I've seen a couple of products called How to Teach Spelling, are you referring to the one at EPS books?

[Lovedtodeath]

Of course anything worthwhile is going to require some time out of the teacher. I find AAS overwhelming though in that there are 6 levels which could take years and years.

 

How do you use AAS without the student packs, wouldn't you be missing all the cards to review? I don't think skipping them would work out for me but I admire your organizational skills since you manage without them.

 

I've seen a couple of products called How to Teach Spelling, are you referring to the one at EPS books?

Yes. It is very similar to AAS. There is an equivalent to "key cards", and "sound cards" as part of the lesson. Phonogram cards are required. It is not broken down into incremental steps and there is no segmenting taught. There are a lot more words, nonsense words, phrases and sentences. There is only one teacher's manual. I may switch to HTTS now that we have our feet wet with AAS.

 

I find that for words I do not need cards to review because they come up in our writing. For phonograms we rarely need to review them, but when we do we can use cards that I made from WRTR. I do use the key cards but if I continue with AAS I will make my own. The sound cards seem very redundant. They are using that skill when they spell the words. At any rate, that is very easy to do with phonogram cards. You just use them in the reverse.

 

I know what you mean. I find AAS overwhelming at times too.

[Annie Laurie]

Yes. It is very similar to AAS. There is an equivalent to "key cards", and "sound cards" as part of the lesson. Phonogram cards are required. It is not broken down into incremental steps and there is no segmenting taught. There are a lot more words, nonsense words, phrases and sentences. There is only one teacher's manual. I may switch to HTTS now that we have our feet wet with AAS.

 

I find that for words I do not need cards to review because they come up in our writing. For phonograms we rarely need to review them, but when we do we can use cards that I made from WRTR. I do use the key cards but if I continue with AAS I will make my own. The sound cards seem very redundant. They are using that skill when they spell the words. At any rate, that is very easy to do with phonogram cards. You just use them in the reverse.

 

I know what you mean. I find AAS overwhelming at times too.

 

Thanks for the info on HTTS. Elizabeth B has mentioned a program by the same title and I was curious if it was the same or similar. But I just realized that the book she mentioned is actually called How to Teach any Child to Spell.

[ElizabethB]

Thanks for the info on HTTS. Elizabeth B has mentioned a program by the same title and I was curious if it was the same or similar. But I just realized that the book she mentioned is actually called How to Teach any Child to Spell.

 

Many of the spelling book titles are similar.

 

I made a long spelling reply once about the wrong book myself! I was talking about either The Spell of Words and Spellbound, I can't even remember what the similar book was.

 

I generally try to link to the actual books now if I have time, especially for spelling books.

[Annie Laurie]

Many of the spelling book titles are similar.

 

I made a long spelling reply once about the wrong book myself! I was talking about either The Spell of Words and Spellbound, I can't even remember what the similar book was.

 

I generally try to link to the actual books now if I have time, especially for spelling books.

 

Good idea. Spelling programs really do have very similar names.

[rowan25]

IF I had a child who read without being taught (which I do NOT have at this point...) :D

 

I would just take her through a really solid spelling program instead of doing phonics. I would think that a child already reading at a 5th grade level would be bored to tears with a phonics program. Maybe not. I'm just guessing. But spelling is just phonics backwards, and a good program would include all the rules and many of the exceptions.

 

Anyway. It's just an idea...

:iagree::iagree:

 

Now.........have any good spelling programs to recommend??:lol::lol:

[MeAndTheBoys]

:iagree::iagree:

 

Now.........have any good spelling programs to recommend??:lol::lol:

 

Don't know if ya'll like the old public domain books--my son is a self-taught reader, and we did pick up Pathway Grade 2 this year to add phonics--

 

But we also added this spelling curriculum from Google Books:

http://books.google.com/books?id=zpQAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA5&dq=elementary+speller&lr=&as_brr=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

 

and it is awesome! I was skeptical when we started, but as we've gotten farther into it, it is a very interesting way to go over spelling rules without lists and tests; it's similar to Primary Language Lessons. My son LOVES to do it, and I think it is reinforcing a lot of the phonics and spelling we're picking up in the other books--

 

Betsy

[shukriyya]

Betsy,

 

Thanks so much for posting that link. It looks like just the spelling program I've been searching for and it's free :thumbup:

[lisabees]

Don't know if ya'll like the old public domain books--my son is a self-taught reader, and we did pick up Pathway Grade 2 this year to add phonics--

 

But we also added this spelling curriculum from Google Books:

http://books.google.com/books?id=zpQAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA5&dq=elementary+speller&lr=&as_brr=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

 

and it is awesome! I was skeptical when we started, but as we've gotten farther into it, it is a very interesting way to go over spelling rules without lists and tests; it's similar to Primary Language Lessons. My son LOVES to do it, and I think it is reinforcing a lot of the phonics and spelling we're picking up in the other books--

 

Betsy

 

Wow. That looks awesome! Thanks for the idea. Glad your son is enjoying it.

[rowan25]

Don't know if ya'll like the old public domain books--my son is a self-taught reader, and we did pick up Pathway Grade 2 this year to add phonics--

 

But we also added this spelling curriculum from Google Books:

http://books.google.com/books?id=zpQAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA5&dq=elementary+speller&lr=&as_brr=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false

 

and it is awesome! I was skeptical when we started, but as we've gotten farther into it, it is a very interesting way to go over spelling rules without lists and tests; it's similar to Primary Language Lessons. My son LOVES to do it, and I think it is reinforcing a lot of the phonics and spelling we're picking up in the other books--

 

Betsy

 

 

Neat! Thanks!