Abortion Addiction to homeschool mom

[Cammie]

The fact of the matter is that many of you think that having even one abortion makes a woman mentally ill. You are entitled to that belief of course. However, I would guess that many women on this board have had one abortion and don't consider themselves mentally ill.

 

As pro-choice as I am, I can still recognize that for most women making the choice to have that abortion is agonizingly difficult. Of course, I would rather that this be a perfect world in which there were no unwanted pregnancies and in which women didn't feel the need to make that decision. Unfortunately, it is not.

 

Where I draw the line between this woman and the many women who have had only one abortion is that she clearly was not having the abortions because she had no other choice, because her health was at risk, or she was a victim of rape/incest, or she had made a terrible mistake and accidently got pregnant when she didn't feel ready to be pg. She had them because they gave her some type of "high" some feeling of control. That is simply not a valid reason IMHO.

[kalanamak]

 

Please explain. I am genuinely interested to know why the number matters.

 

It is not good for her health.

It is a decadent waste of resources.

It gives something many still want legal a bad name.

 

Although she may be "sick", such people can appear amazingly normal, and she might well have gone to different clinics. Since her insurance wasn't paying for this, no one was tracking it. Nowadays if I doc doesn't give the patient just want they want, they are booed. Paternalistic! Culturally insensitive! Lawsuit loser!

[MOM24WONDERS]

I would imagine there are safety issues in bearing 20 children, as well... Not implying "justification" in one or "wrongness" in the other, just that there are relative risks associated with any overuse of our organs.

 

The difference being that our bodies were MADE to reproduce, so it's not "overuse" of our uterus to bear children. On the other hand, our bodies were NOT made to murder innocent babies. That's not overuse, that's disgusting.

 

I really feel like vomiting now. I wish I'd never read that. What a sick and twisted woman....

[MOM24WONDERS]

Where I draw the line between this woman and the many women who have had only one abortion is that she clearly was not having the abortions because she had no other choice, because her health was at risk, or she was a victim of rape/incest, or she had made a terrible mistake and accidently got pregnant when she didn't feel ready to be pg. She had them because they gave her some type of "high" some feeling of control. That is simply not a valid reason IMHO.

 

She is a serial killer. There is no difference in someone grabbing an innocent child off the street and murdering them to get some perverted high than there is for this woman to have the gift of life created within her and killing it "for pleasure".

 

What's even more appalling is that she can and does use the media to exploit her rampage. If someone did the SAME thing to those innocent babies 6 months later than she did, they would be in prison for life or facing the gas chamber, as well they should be. Simply sad in my opinion.

 

What IS our world coming to?

[Impish]

Reading the 2nd article, she comes across as a complete narcissist.

 

Irene Vilar: Yes, thank you...Well, therapy is a major homework in healing and I committed to this for years-Motherhood has been redemptive, humbling, and a daily source of the best kind of affirmation and self-validation. I read constantly about psychology and child development and also see a therapist once a month as an anchor.

And what happens when her kids DON'T validate her on a daily basis? When they give her attitude, or any one of the million things that kids do that make a parent wish they'd raised tomatoes instead of kids?

 

I wrote this book with a specific reader in mind and that is women and cultural studies. I am certain that eventually, once its frees itself from the tabloids, the testimony will find its right, fruitful place as an important document in cultural and post colonial studies.

 

So not only is she a victim of society, culture, her family of origin, she's written something that is so earth shaking important that it deserves to have a place in cultural studies. Uh huh. Go down to any courthouse, grab any criminal proceeding transcript, and read that. Anyone convicted of serious crime is a total victim and completely without responsibility for their actions, especially if they were drunk or high, because then they're a victim and an addict.

 

She also describes her dh in one place as my husband who I married seven years ago, the father of our children, a most compassionate and tolerant man, non judgmental, the best of America is in him, a man who saw what I could become if I was given the chance. and then goes on to say in another answer: But is obvious when you read the testimony that there is, on his part, insensitivity and a blinding narcissism.

 

How can one be tolerant, non judgemental, yet insensitive and blindingly narcissistic?

 

Frankly, she's no more healthy now than when she was aborting her husband's children (12 of the abortions were his children). She's merely shifted her sights and found a new way to get her 'high'...Go to the media.

 

I'd rather study a textbook on the importance of toe jam in North American society through the ages than to consider for even a nanosecond that her book will actually be considered 'important' and 'studied'.

[asta]

Impish,

 

She has had two different husbands. The first was abusive. The second she is still married to.

 

 

a

[angela in ohio]

I don't understand why someone having 15 abortions is considered mentally ill. How many abortions would a woman have to have before she is considered troubled and needing help?

 

My opinion is: a doctor who is willing to kill a helpless baby would not be inclined to help another person with her "illness".

 

I don't know. But that is what previous posters have said, and I'm trying to understand what they think could have been done. Like a PP said, I would think a doctor would be afraid to deny someone an abortion.

[lionfamily1999]

Reading the 2nd article, she comes across as a complete narcissist.

 

Irene Vilar: Yes, thank you...Well, therapy is a major homework in healing and I committed to this for years-Motherhood has been redemptive, humbling, and a daily source of the best kind of affirmation and self-validation. I read constantly about psychology and child development and also see a therapist once a month as an anchor.

 

And what happens when her kids DON'T validate her on a daily basis? When they give her attitude, or any one of the million things that kids do that make a parent wish they'd raised tomatoes instead of kids?

 

I wrote this book with a specific reader in mind and that is women and cultural studies. I am certain that eventually, once its frees itself from the tabloids, the testimony will find its right, fruitful place as an important document in cultural and post colonial studies.

 

So not only is she a victim of society, culture, her family of origin, she's written something that is so earth shaking important that it deserves to have a place in cultural studies. Uh huh. Go down to any courthouse, grab any criminal proceeding transcript, and read that. Anyone convicted of serious crime is a total victim and completely without responsibility for their actions, especially if they were drunk or high, because then they're a victim and an addict.

 

Frankly, she's no more healthy now than when she was aborting her husband's children (12 of the abortions were his children). She's merely shifted her sights and found a new way to get her 'high'...Go to the media.

 

I'd rather study a textbook on the importance of toe jam in North American society through the ages than to consider for even a nanosecond that her book will actually be considered 'important' and 'studied'.

 

(I deleted where the dhs got mixed up :p)

 

I agree, she does not seem healthy. I hope her therapist reads that article, so they can put her back on the road to recovery.

 

I think writing is theraputic, until you turn your journal into a soap box. Once you start preaching, you stop recovering, assuming yourself whole. Hopefully this dh won't be lulled into a false sense of security and will keep a close eye on his dw. Not just for the kids, but for her own sake. She still needs help.

[PineFarmMom]

I don't know. But that is what previous posters have said, and I'm trying to understand what they think could have been done. Like a PP said, I would think a doctor would be afraid to deny someone an abortion.

 

No one will like my answer. In my perfect world, it would be illegal, so she would have had a hard time finding someone to do them for her and that would have led her to take measures BEFOREHAND to avoid pregnancy rather than killing all of those babies.

 

No, I really don't suppose anyone could have stopped her unless there was a family member who knew. She probably did go to different doctors, and they didn't know, nor would they have probably cared anyway. The whole thing is sick and demented. It just sucks big time that killing babies is legal, period!! :(

Edited November 5, 2009 by Texas T

[Haiku]

I don't understand why someone having 15 abortions is considered mentally ill. How many abortions would a woman have to have before she is considered troubled and needing help?

 

 

I think several of us have already explained that it's not so much the number as it is the motivations.

 

Tara

[PineFarmMom]

Reading the 2nd article, she comes across as a complete narcissist.

 

Irene Vilar: Yes, thank you...Well, therapy is a major homework in healing and I committed to this for years-Motherhood has been redemptive, humbling, and a daily source of the best kind of affirmation and self-validation. I read constantly about psychology and child development and also see a therapist once a month as an anchor.

 

 

 

 

I didn't think about that wording, but yes, you are right.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

The difference being that our bodies were MADE to reproduce, so it's not "overuse" of our uterus to bear children. On the other hand, our bodies were NOT made to murder innocent babies. That's not overuse, that's disgusting.

 

I really feel like vomiting now. I wish I'd never read that. What a sick and twisted woman....

 

Actually, the uterus can be overused. It can be dangerous to the woman to have serial pregnancies.

[MOM24WONDERS]

Actually, the uterus can be overused. It can be dangerous to the woman to have serial pregnancies.

 

I suppose if a woman was in poor health or something there could be a problem, but God knows that - and He knows that woman's body better than a doctor or even she does. We believe that God is in control and that He knows what is best. We don't believe in any form of birth control because we know that God will only do what is best for us. If it's to be blessed with 20 babies, then so be it - if it's to be blessed with 1 or 4 like we are, then again, so be it.

 

I don't sit in judgment of those that DO use birth control, it's just not what we believe is right.

 

I'm sure if you talk to 10 different people or even doctors that you will get differing opinions. Go to a pro-life, quiverfull doctor and you'll get one thing - go to a pro-choice doctor with a socialist or "limited number of children" mindset and you'll get another.

Edited November 5, 2009 by MOM24WONDERS

[asta]

Actually, the uterus can be overused. It can be dangerous to the woman to have serial pregnancies.

 

:iagree:

 

I was wondering if anyone would ever be brave enough to say that on this board.

 

The entire concept of having pregnancies/children until one is physically incapable of procreation has always bewildered me. Even the RCC doesn't argue from that standpoint, and most people would say that their stance is the "harshest":

It is true, moreover, that serious circumstances may develop in the couple's growth which make it prudent to space out births or even to suspend them.

quote

 

Extremism in any form rarely leads to a good place.

 

 

a

[Haiku]

My mother's cousin had 15 kids in 17 years. Her doctors told her after the 12th, 13th, and 14th pregnancies (each of which landed her in the hospital for weeks after the births) that more pregnancies could kill her. Her husband believed god was in control. She died when the 15th child was born.

 

Tara

[asta]

My mother's cousin had 15 kids in 17 years. Her doctors told her after the 12th, 13th, and 14th pregnancies (each of which landed her in the hospital for weeks after the births) that more pregnancies could kill her. Her husband believed god was in control. She died when the 15th child was born.

 

Tara

 

And then who raises the kids?

 

Dad has to work.

 

 

a

[MOM24WONDERS]

Ok, for those that are naysayers of the quiverfull movement - what would be your suggestion for "controlling" the births? Natural family planning I'm sure is an option - and one that isn't harming the mother or child.

 

However, so many go for things like the pill or IUDs which cause spontaneous abortions. I just read an article recently that stated that a woman on the pill has an average of 3 spontaneous abortions per YEAR. That's huge...and scary. Not to mention all that junk messes with your organs, your hormones, and increases your risk of cancer tremendously.

 

I'm certain that God knew what He was doing when He created the female body. It wasn't a mistake or a glitch in our development ;)

 

Again, I'm certain that there are women who have very poor health who may need to take a different route with their fertility. In that case, I would suggest natural family planning.

 

For the person who posted that their family member had died after giving birth...I just found that whole statement a little nauseating. It was as if you blamed the woman or even her husband for her death. Honestly, I'm sure they've lost enough. She didn't die by accident or because she had more children when a human, fallible doctor told her not to - she died because God allowed it to happen. Why? Only God knows.

 

I'm just as certain that those folks didn't make the choice to keep having blessings lightly. They obviously knew the risks and were willing to take them. On the other end of the spectrum - can you really, honestly look at those precious children that she bore and say they shouldn't be here? Is it a ,"If you mother hadn't had you, she'd still be alive???"

 

I know that most people can't understand a faith like we have. It's all encompassing. It never changes. It's easy to be faithless and even Christians have a faith that can waver momentarily...but if we truly believe that God is in control and loves us, why worry?

Edited November 5, 2009 by MOM24WONDERS

[asta]

I'll say it:

 

I do blame that woman's husband for her death.

 

And, with absolutely no information to go on (since we love ranting on this board with no background info at. all.), I'll go ahead and blame whatever organized religion she subscribed to, the society in which she lived, and her familial situation.

 

Women are put in an impossible situation in regards to reproduction. I have never once, not ONCE heard someone do a "there, there, it's OK" to a MAN in regards to fertility. Are there probably some men out there who feel badly that they cannot have a child? I'm sure there are. Are there guys losing sleep about the fact that they CAN? I so, so doubt that.

 

I'd be DEAD from another pregnancy. D.E.A.D. I have no one else to raise my kid. My husband would have to work. God wouldn't pay the bills for a nanny.

 

/rant

 

 

a

[MOM24WONDERS]

Actually, the uterus can be overused. It can be dangerous to the woman to have serial pregnancies.

 

I'll say it:

 

I do blame that woman's husband for her death.

 

And, with absolutely no information to go on (since we love ranting on this board with no background info at. all.), I'll go ahead and blame whatever organized religion she subscribed to, the society in which she lived, and her familial situation.

 

 

 

 

 

That's rich. Heck, in that case...why not go ahead and blame the poor dead woman - I mean, for heaven's sake, she's the one that went and died.

 

And yes, I've known REAL men who have cried and been devastated over their own infertility. I am blessed to be married to a man that loves me and our children completely...he would never want to do anything to risk losing me or one of our children. I'm certain that this man wasn't thinking about using his wife's pregnancies and their subsequent blessings as a way to "knock her off". Get real.

 

There is no one to blame...it's not a blame type of situation. As for who would care for the child? Well, I think the time to prepare for that is NOW. In our case, for instance, if something happened to either me or my husband (and honestly, we have as about as much chance of getting run over by an 18-wheeler as we do dying giving birth, especially in this day and age), neither of us would have to work. We've set up our finances so that if he passes, our lifestyle won't change at all - I will still be at home, homeschooling, etc. If I pass, he will be able to do the same. Plus, we have AMAZING parents that would step in and help all they could and needed to. I think everyone should have their finances in order - then there is no worry. I mean, what happens if you die tomorrow? Who is going to take care of your child? That whole argument is pretty asinine if you ask me.

 

Again, until you've experienced faith like we have, you can't fathom or understand it. I'm not sure why I ever expect anyone to.

[Haiku]

For the person who posted that their family member had died after giving birth...I just found that whole statement a little nauseating. It was as if you blamed the woman or even her husband for her death.

 

I don't blame her at all. I blame her husband. He was one of those "I'm the head of the family, bow to my will" types who wouldn't allow his wife to use any form of birth control because god apparently wanted the whole world populated with little versions of him. He forced her to continue having sex/getting pregnant when doctors told her it was a risk to her life.

 

but if we truly believe that God is in control and loves us, why worry?

 

Well, I don't believe in god so I am not the one to answer your question, but I will say that it's situations like this one that reinforce my belief that there is no god. Fifteen kids without a mother and a whole extended family awash with grief does not make me feel like "don't worry, be happy."

 

Tara

Edited November 5, 2009 by TaraTheLiberator

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

I stand by my statement that the uterus can be overused. I will not argue faith, as I consider that an exercise in futility regardless of which side is arguing. If a woman (or anyone) wants to put health and/or life at risk for reasons of faith, I’m not sure that’s my business as long as I do not have to pay for it.

Among women whose pregnancies resulted in a live birth, the risk for pregnancy-related death increased with increasing live-birth order. For both white and black women, the pregnancy-related mortality ratios were approximately 2 times higher for women after the delivery of a fifth or higher live birth than for women after a first live birth.

From From: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5202a1.htm

Complications related to pregnancy is actually the 9th leading cause of death among white women and is on the top ten for every other race/ethnicity in the United States. Link to 2006 stats: http://www.cdc.gov/HIV/topics/surveillance/resources/reports/2009supp_vol14no3/table7.htm

[asta]

Plus, we have AMAZING parents that would step in and help all they could and needed to. I think everyone should have their finances in order - then there is no worry. I mean, what happens if you die tomorrow? Who is going to take care of your child? That whole argument is pretty asinine if you ask me.

 

Congrats.

 

We have no one.

 

It would be hubby and a big @ss insurance check, looking for a nanny.

 

Again, until you've experienced faith like we have, you can't fathom or understand it. I'm not sure why I ever expect anyone to.

 

Just because I disagree vehemently with your position, does not infer that I am a faithless individual. I simply don't share your faith.

 

I don't even know Tara, but I'm reasonably certain that she has a great deal of faith; Faith isn't exclusive to a deity.

 

 

a

[lionfamily1999]

(unless your womb was built by Volvo)

Nah, even those wear out over time :p

[MOM24WONDERS]

I should say it's been my experience that the healthiest women are those that have larger families. I find that women who have 4+ children (and I know MANY that have 8-10+) are in great shape, healthy, no problems. While, on the other hand, it seems that a large number of women with 1 or 2 children are overweight, bad health, having all sorts of female problems, hysterectomies, etc.

 

The worst female problems that I've seen almost always come from women who reach age 30 and have never bore children. Our bodies were made to reproduce...it doesn't mean that we're like machines just pushing babies out for the sake of doing so. This isn't a dig at women who can't bear children, who suffer from infertility...I know first hand how hard that is. I have a dear friend that is 28 and she is infertile - it's devastating...but she also has severe and horrible female issues. It is heartbreaking.

 

For everyone that I know that's quiverfull, it's honestly and truly about a complete desire to fulfill God's Will in our lives. We believe that birth control is a sin and we trust God to space our families according to His desire. It's not about seeing how many children we can have - I know quiverfull families with 3 children - they desire to have more or are open to more, but God hasn't taken them there yet. We've had 5 and desperately want more - and if it's God's will, we will have more - if not, then we accept that also. Again, it's not about a number, but more about accepting the blessings that God is offering. Doug Phillips once said, "The Bible calls debt a curse and children a blessing. Why is it that our world heartily accepts a curse, but continuously rejects a blessing?" That's not exact wording, but the same sentiment. It's about letting God control the family size, regardless of what that size is. That's quiverfull :)

 

As for the finances situation - anyone can have that. It's not exclusive to our ways or beliefs....all it takes is a little planning. If your situation only deems that you can have an insurance policy - make sure that it's big enough that neither of you will have to be concerned with anything except your children - at least for a few years. It's not about doing things "my way" or that I think we have it all figured out - we certainly don't!!! It's just about knowing what it is we want for our family - setting goals - and reaching them. This is beyond extremely important to my husband and I. His main wish when setting up our finances was that I would never have to work - even if something happened to him.

 

Again, I don't mean to offend - it's not my purpose. I was just stating an opinion...and not even one directed at anyone for that matter. While I may not agree, others are certainly entitled to their beliefs and opinions. I wish Christians were given the same courtesy.

[asta]

I should say it's been my experience that the healthiest women are those that have larger families. I find that women who have 4+ children (and I know MANY that have 8-10+) are in great shape, healthy, no problems. While, on the other hand, it seems that a large number of women with 1 or 2 children are overweight, bad health, having all sorts of female problems, hysterectomies, etc.

 

The worst female problems that I've seen almost always come from women who reach age 30 and have never bore children. Our bodies were made to reproduce...it doesn't mean that we're like machines just pushing babies out for the sake of doing so. This isn't a dig at women who can't bear children, who suffer from infertility...I know first hand how hard that is. I have a dear friend that is 28 and she is infertile - it's devastating...but she also has severe and horrible female issues. It is heartbreaking.

 

For everyone that I know that's quiverfull, it's honestly and truly about a complete desire to fulfill God's Will in our lives. We believe that birth control is a sin and we trust God to space our families according to His desire. It's not about seeing how many children we can have - I know quiverfull families with 3 children - they desire to have more or are open to more, but God hasn't taken them there yet. We've had 5 and desperately want more - and if it's God's will, we will have more - if not, then we accept that also. Again, it's not about a number, but more about accepting the blessings that God is offering. Doug Phillips once said, "The Bible calls debt a curse and children a blessing. Why is it that our world heartily accepts a curse, but continuously rejects a blessing?" That's not exact wording, but the same sentiment. It's about letting God control the family size, regardless of what that size is. That's quiverfull :)

 

As for the finances situation - anyone can have that. It's not exclusive to our ways or beliefs....all it takes is a little planning. If your situation only deems that you can have an insurance policy - make sure that it's big enough that neither of you will have to be concerned with anything except your children - at least for a few years. It's not about doing things "my way" or that I think we have it all figured out - we certainly don't!!! It's just about knowing what it is we want for our family - setting goals - and reaching them. This is beyond extremely important to my husband and I. His main wish when setting up our finances was that I would never have to work - even if something happened to him.

 

Again, I don't mean to offend - it's not my purpose. I was just stating an opinion...and not even one directed at anyone for that matter. While I may not agree, others are certainly entitled to their beliefs and opinions. I wish Christians were given the same courtesy.

 

:001_huh:

[Jen500]

I should say it's been my experience that the healthiest women are those that have larger families. I find that women who have 4+ children (and I know MANY that have 8-10+) are in great shape, healthy, no problems. While, on the other hand, it seems that a large number of women with 1 or 2 children are overweight, bad health, having all sorts of female problems, hysterectomies, etc.

 

 

Um. Well maybe these women were able to have so many children because they were 'healthier' in the first place. Are you saying that having lots of children caused them to be healthier?

[cin]

She bought supplies for two full Montessori classrooms. I think her compulsive nature has a new outlet.

 

Um, sure sounds like it to me! Hopefully, she has a well-supplied goodwill nearby :)

[Impish]

I'll say it:

 

I do blame that woman's husband for her death.

 

And, with absolutely no information to go on (since we love ranting on this board with no background info at. all.), I'll go ahead and blame whatever organized religion she subscribed to, the society in which she lived, and her familial situation.

 

Women are put in an impossible situation in regards to reproduction. I have never once, not ONCE heard someone do a "there, there, it's OK" to a MAN in regards to fertility. Are there probably some men out there who feel badly that they cannot have a child? I'm sure there are. Are there guys losing sleep about the fact that they CAN? I so, so doubt that.

 

I'd be DEAD from another pregnancy. D.E.A.D. I have no one else to raise my kid. My husband would have to work. God wouldn't pay the bills for a nanny.

 

/rant

 

 

a

I went to school with a man who discovered he was infertile. He was completely, absolutely heartbroken. He'd always wanted children. I don't know why the mythology still exists that the desire for children is solely a 'woman' driven issue.

For everyone that I know that's quiverfull, it's honestly and truly about a complete desire to fulfill God's Will in our lives. We believe that birth control is a sin and we trust God to space our families according to His desire. It's not about seeing how many children we can have - I know quiverfull families with 3 children - they desire to have more or are open to more, but God hasn't taken them there yet. We've had 5 and desperately want more - and if it's God's will, we will have more - if not, then we accept that also. Again, it's not about a number, but more about accepting the blessings that God is offering. Doug Phillips once said, "The Bible calls debt a curse and children a blessing. Why is it that our world heartily accepts a curse, but continuously rejects a blessing?" That's not exact wording, but the same sentiment. It's about letting God control the family size, regardless of what that size is. That's quiverfull :)

I'm not 'Quiverfull' exactly...I desire more children, dh doesn't (completely due to my having RSD, and financial concerns). Neither of us will take permanent measures. I honestly feel that if God wants us to have another child, we will. If He doesn't, we won't. I've said that to my dh, and he agrees with that statement.

 

I do feel that we will have another child eventually. Probably because dh just cleared out all the baby clothes and toys in the last two wknds and donated them. I warned him about that. :tongue_smilie::lol:

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

I should say it's been my experience that the healthiest women are those that have larger families. I find that women who have 4+ children (and I know MANY that have 8-10+) are in great shape, healthy, no problems. While, on the other hand, it seems that a large number of women with 1 or 2 children are overweight, bad health, having all sorts of female problems, hysterectomies, etc.

 

The worst female problems that I've seen almost always come from women who reach age 30 and have never bore children. Our bodies were made to reproduce...it doesn't mean that we're like machines just pushing babies out for the sake of doing so. This isn't a dig at women who can't bear children, who suffer from infertility...I know first hand how hard that is. I have a dear friend that is 28 and she is infertile - it's devastating...but she also has severe and horrible female issues. It is heartbreaking.

 

For everyone that I know that's quiverfull, it's honestly and truly about a complete desire to fulfill God's Will in our lives. We believe that birth control is a sin and we trust God to space our families according to His desire. It's not about seeing how many children we can have - I know quiverfull families with 3 children - they desire to have more or are open to more, but God hasn't taken them there yet. We've had 5 and desperately want more - and if it's God's will, we will have more - if not, then we accept that also. Again, it's not about a number, but more about accepting the blessings that God is offering. Doug Phillips once said, "The Bible calls debt a curse and children a blessing. Why is it that our world heartily accepts a curse, but continuously rejects a blessing?" That's not exact wording, but the same sentiment. It's about letting God control the family size, regardless of what that size is. That's quiverfull :)

 

As for the finances situation - anyone can have that. It's not exclusive to our ways or beliefs....all it takes is a little planning. If your situation only deems that you can have an insurance policy - make sure that it's big enough that neither of you will have to be concerned with anything except your children - at least for a few years. It's not about doing things "my way" or that I think we have it all figured out - we certainly don't!!! It's just about knowing what it is we want for our family - setting goals - and reaching them. This is beyond extremely important to my husband and I. His main wish when setting up our finances was that I would never have to work - even if something happened to him.

 

Again, I don't mean to offend - it's not my purpose. I was just stating an opinion...and not even one directed at anyone for that matter. While I may not agree, others are certainly entitled to their beliefs and opinions. I wish Christians were given the same courtesy.

 

Well, I'm certainly not going to argue with personal experience or anecdotal evidence. Facts are for sissies!

[PineFarmMom]

Again, I don't mean to offend - it's not my purpose. I was just stating an opinion...and not even one directed at anyone for that matter. While I may not agree, others are certainly entitled to their beliefs and opinions. I wish Christians were given the same courtesy.

 

We will soon have 5 children, but we have used different methods of bc throughout the years, so I can't really say we fully have the "quiverfull" philosophy on life. I do understand your beliefs on this, and I honestly respect it very much!!! I think that when we trust in God for the provisions, He will meet us where our faith is!! I believe that to be mentally, physically, spiritually, financially and in any other area I'm not even thinking of. :D I'd much rather see someone trusting God with the number of children they have and with the financial means to take care of them than to see someone making decisions as if they are God and killing them off when things didn't feel just right.

 

It's odd, but I recognize that, per many, we aren't to decide right and wrong about actions that anyone does, ever at all, no matter what, even this mom/author. It seems, though, that people who make the decision to do what you and your dh are doing are fair game.:confused:

[Erica in PA]

Not true. We do make judgements and we are to call the truth what it is. I get so tired of people who know nothing about Christianity trying to tell me how to be a Christian.

 

 

:iagree:

[Marylou]

There was some discussion earlier in the thread about calling abortion "murder". I read this yesterday in Gregory Koukl's new book Tactics:

 

Here’s another challenge that can overcome by a simple appeal to facts. Some denounce the use of the word, “murder” to describe abortion. Yet this language is completely consistent with the laws in nearly two-thirds of the states in the United States, at least in one regard. In the California statutes, for example, under the category “Crimes against the Person,” §187, murder is defined this way: “Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being, or a fetus, with malice aforethought” (emphasis mine). After the definition, we find among the exceptions: “This section shall not apply to any person who commits an act which results in the death of a fetus if . . . the act was solicited, aided, abetted, or consented to by the mother of the fetus.”

 

This exception in the California statue is troubling. The moral principle underlying all homicide statutes is that human beings have innate worth. Value is not derived from something outside of the person; it is intrinsic. That’s why destroying a human being is the most serious of crimes.

 

If the intrinsic value of unborn human beings qualifies then for protection under homicide statutes, why is something extrinsic, like the mother’s choice, relevant? How does the mere consent of the mother change the innate value of the little human being inside her?

 

However one answers this question, two facts remain. One, abortion is legal in states like California. Two, apart from the stipulated exceptions, killing the unborn is homicide. Those who do so are prosecuted for murder.

 

On the use of the word “murder”, then, pro-lifers are not extreme. They agree with the statutes of the majority of states in the country: Unborn children are valuable human beings due the same protection as the rest of us. The problem is not with pro-life “extremists”, but with inconsistent laws.

 

Tactics--A Game Plan for Discussing Your Christian Convictions by Gregory Koukl page 183.