Remudamom Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Excuse me, but the guy is an @$$. You can blow if off, but I went to our pastor when our youth minister made some questionable remarks about homeschooling. Number one reason my kids won't ever participate in the youth program. Our pastors have always supported our family's homeschooling. They even give "graduation" parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrellyMama Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Excuse me, but the guy is an @$$. You can blow if off, but I went to our pastor when our youth minister made some questionable remarks about homeschooling. Number one reason my kids won't ever participate in the youth program. Our pastors have always supported our family's homeschooling. They even give "graduation" parties. I don't know that he is an @$$. He sounds like an over zealous young Christian. They can come off sounding very @$$ like. I've been there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 How about behaving like one then? IMO it's the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Dominion Heather Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 If the pastor is not preaching the Word of God, then he is preaching his own convictions. and Churches ought to be teaching that our roll is not to avoid the non-Christian radio station or to spend less time on Facebook. They ought to be teaching us the truth of God's Word and glorifying Him. Preach it, Kate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrellyMama Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 How about behaving like one then? IMO it's the same thing. I guess I was thinking that someone who is an @$$ is someone who will not be talked to about it. Or who is talked to about it and won't change. I'd like to think he'd have a change of heart after hearing their concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RecumbentHeart Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I personally agree with Voddie Baucham: in reference to Christ's statement that a student is not above his teacher but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher. OF COURSE there is the argument that many of us survived PS by the GRACE OF GOD but I think we're undermining the cost even to those of us that made it through, faith intact (I personally wasn't one of them), and I'm convinced that there are far fewer who have 'made it through' than people like to claim (exactly how are we to define 'making it through'? .. and shouldn't we be asking in what environment can they best thrive rather than in which one can they, theoretically, survive?). But then, I'm convinced there are far fewer truly saved Christians than there are people who confess to be Christians ... that's another issue ... I'm personally spoiled because in my relatively small church there is a large number of children of all ages and the majority are homeschooled. We have a more family integrated church that doesn't do the whole 'youth group/pastor' thing that is popular in our culture. I highly recommend it if you can find one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen FL Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I would have been irritated too. I would not even have any of my children sitting under a youth pastor. Personally, I don't believe in the youth pastor position for the church at large. I think the monies for youth pastoring ought to be set aside for missions. I am not comfortable with youth groups at all. They seem to be modeled after the segregation set-up in brick and mortar schools. It has been better for us to have our children involved in small group bible studies with other families. We look for groups where children can sit with the adults and interact with the adults. Even at young ages they can be included in such Bible studies. They can have fellowship with children of all ages. Activities can be planned as well for all. The parents are right there and the supervision is more appropriate. Our family has been in such a Bible study for many years and it has been a blessing for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth Conley Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Christy, don't have time to carefully read all the replies, but I will say that the greatest opposition we've had with homeschooling has been within our church. The pressure to use public school was intense, until the pastor one day decided that Christian school was better, and now there is pressure to use Christian school. We're on the wrong side of the fence either way. :tongue_smilie: I realized how beyond furious I would have been if we had yielded to the pressure to send our kids to public school, only to then be told how bad the schools were -- and that's when I realized NO ONE has the authority over my conscience to tell me how to educate my kids. I've learned that's one of the many problems with letting pastors bind our consciences on matters of liberty -- THEY CHANGE THEIR MINDS as to what is "best" or "biblical" while we're left living with the consequences of their "leadership". It was an eye-opening experience, obviously with implications far beyond homeschooling, but it totally changed the way I approach the issue of homeschooling in my church. I refuse to walk around defending my "inferior" choice -- I just go about my business. __________________ You're on the right track here. It requires remarkable narcissism to run around telling other people how to live. It's one thing if the leader is simply teaching the Bible, it's another if s/he imagines s/he's an anointed leader whose every flight of fancy comes straight from God. We all have to pray and practice discernment. If I had chosen to sway with every breeze the hot air blasting forth from these windbags, my family would have wrecked long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quad Shot Academy Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Thanks for all the replies! Yes it is true that youth pastor just turned 30, just got married last year, and has no children. He also became a Christian 3 years ago himself. He was actually delivered from cocaine after coming to Christ Honestly, there is no way I would allow my children to have contact with this person, other than around my dinner table. I really don't understand having a person who has only been a Christian for 3 years being in leadership. I think it is unbiblical. And someone who is that close to addiction??? :confused: There are scriptures about putting people in places of leadership before they have matured and been strengthened because they are liable to relapse into sin with the added pride. And it doesn't sound like he is short on pride. ;) My husband and I really don't understand why YPs are the low people on the totem pole. We think that they should be the best paid next to the head pastor and that it should be a requirement that they have children! They could have young, youth pastor helpers for the culturally relevant "needs". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 but he also says that he "turned out ok" so there is nothing to fear. but he also believes that what he went through as a child is nothing in comparison to what my daughter for example might go through in school. So if he can make it , so can she. Did he say/imply that? I'd have to say, it doesn't matter that he "made it" - his "making it" has nothing to do with *your* child's life. Besides, what if you are planning for *more* than just "making it" for your dd?? Just not the same situations at all. Hang tough, Momma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty in Pink Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I'd tell him to suck it. Not really. Kind of. I'd tell him in no uncertain terms that I didn't ask for his opinion. Period. It wouldn't be up for discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Our youth pastor and our previous ones at other churches (we move frequently hence my screen name) all support homeschooling and also strongly support parents. None of the ones that I have been acquainted with talked about choosing education based on mission needs nor have they said anything to undermine parental authority. All of them had meetings with parents over what they were teaching, tying it in to what was happening in the church and none of these groups were somehow separate from the church. It is more like a bible study group for young people with service projects and some fun added in. Of course, we look for churches with homeschoolers attending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieM Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Honestly, there is no way I would allow my children to have contact with this person, other than around my dinner table. I really don't understand having a person who has only been a Christian for 3 years being in leadership. I think it is unbiblical. And someone who is that close to addiction??? :confused: There are scriptures about putting people in places of leadership before they have matured and been strengthened because they are liable to relapse into sin with the added pride. And it doesn't sound like he is short on pride. ;) My husband and I really don't understand why YPs are the low people on the totem pole. We think that they should be the best paid next to the head pastor and that it should be a requirement that they have children! They could have young, youth pastor helpers for the culturally relevant "needs". Hear! Hear! Wisest words yet!!! I join those who expressed concern that this man's influence may eventually affect your children. I expect it could lead them to question you. A good youth pastor should always direct a student back to the wisdom of his parents, not become a parental surrogate (obviously not in the case of an abusive family, but definitely in the case of an intact, believing family). This guy should limit his teaching to what the Word of God says on the matter, devoid of his opinions. He should be thankful that your kids have the opportunity to bypass the heartache he experienced. This situation is another sad commentary on the state of the church in America. It's kinda scary, methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RanchGirl Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Honestly, there is no way I would allow my children to have contact with this person, other than around my dinner table. I really don't understand having a person who has only been a Christian for 3 years being in leadership. I think it is unbiblical. And someone who is that close to addiction??? :confused: There are scriptures about putting people in places of leadership before they have matured and been strengthened because they are liable to relapse into sin with the added pride. And it doesn't sound like he is short on pride. ;) :iagree: Only 3 years in the faith and recent addiction raise huge red flags to me. It's so easy for them to unintentionally glamorize their previous issues when sharing their "life story" with the kids. Very concerning!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 He also became a Christian 3 years ago himself. He was not raised in the church and was actually raised in a really bad side of town with a mother who did a lot of drugs. He had a very rough upbringing . His testimony is a great one but he also says that he "turned out ok" so there is nothing to fear. He was actually delivered from cocaine after coming to Christ but he also believes that what he went through as a child is nothing in comparison to what my daughter for example might go through in school. So if he can make it , so can she. BIG,BIG, red flags. There is no way that a person can recover wholly "enough" in the course of 3 years to function appropriately as a Youth Leader. He's not only a baby Christian, but a baby in recovery. While recovery from addiction is miraculous and the work of God, the process of becoming sane, sage, centered and healthy is something that takes *years*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 . BIG,BIG, red flags. There is no way that a person can recover wholly "enough" in the course of 3 years to function appropriately as a Youth Leader. He's not only a baby Christian, but a baby in recovery. While recovery from addiction is miraculous and the work of God, the process of becoming sane, sage, centered and healthy is something that takes *years*. Honestly, at one time I would have disagreed with that evaluation. I don't anymore. Joanne is right. 3 years is like a few minutes, IMO. God can do some amazing things, but I think there is a time period of walking with him and being discipled that needs to happen before being in the ministry, and that time just cannot be microwaved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna T. Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 I ended up getting what amounted to a lecture about how the public school is a mission field and if we don't witness there then we are not fulfilling the Great Commission. I'm just a little irritated today... We had a pastor who said the same things from the pulpit several different times. At the time, we were the only homeschoolers who were attending the church on a regular basis. He even thought that his four year old should go to Preschool in order to be a witness for Christ. We really disagreed with him but we kept quite about it. That was two years ago. Now, that pastor has left our church and we have a new pastor :D. He is very supportive of homeschooling, has stated from the pulpit that it is a wonderful option and that he intends to homeschool his own children in the future (they are currently childless). Anyways, we now have several families who are homeschooling. In fact, almost all the children in our church are now being homeschooled and many of the young adults were homeschooled themselves. Just sharing all that to say that you never know what God might do. We really loved our old pastor and we are glad we didn't make an issue out of his statements. He was wrong and we know that but he was the pastor and it was important to us that we respect his position, even though we disagreed. We were patient and we prayed and now our church is very affirming of what we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Honestly, at one time I would have disagreed with that evaluation. I don't anymore. Joanne is right. 3 years is like a few minutes, IMO. God can do some amazing things, but I think there is a time period of walking with him and being discipled that needs to happen before being in the ministry, and that time just cannot be microwaved. My AA sponsor when I lived in AZ used to say she didn't take anyone seriously until they had 5 years of recovery. It used to really, really bug me because, in my mind, I was very recovered, committed and ready to take on any matter of things. As I approached (and passed several times over) 5 years, I saw the reality. Addiction issues go far and long and the recovery process is deep. While I think people early in recovery can and do remarkable things, I think they must be carefully selected. Being a YM at 3 years? Nope. It's also common for people in early recovery to try to get their Licensed Chemical Dependency Counselor designation. It's commonly known "in the rooms" of recovery that this is often a recipe for disaster early on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna T. Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 And Jesus started his ministry by recruiting a core group of followers that he trained and then sent out in groups of 2. The ones that went alone went to all ready established groups to help. That is a very good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna T. Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 (edited) Our situation is a pretty good one. I had always thought that we'd just completely avoid youth group altogether. Then we moved to a church with some really. good. kids. I used to think the same way. But, our current church is totally focused on Christ and on equipping the children and youth to grow in their knowledge and faith. We focus on Bible doctrines and discipling the kids to be strong and prepared. They do have fun but the focus is the Bible and knowing Jesus and following His commandments. The parents are involved also. We have a small church and so the youth group is small. Our pastor says all the time that it's not about having a big and busy group. It's about feeding the children's souls and helping them to grow in their faith. How the children are schooled isn't really the point. The point is that God loves them regardless to their circumstances. The children/youth have varied backgrounds but all are welcomed and nurtured. Edited October 3, 2009 by Donna T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna T. Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 If the pastor is not preaching the Word of God, then he is preaching his own convictions. I don't attend church to hear *any* pastor's convictions. I go to learn and study the Word of God. I don't want my children to think that salvation comes from anything they *do* because it isn't. There is not a single thing we can do to earn the merit or forgiveness of God. Churches ought to be teaching that our roll is not to avoid the non-Christian radio station or to spend less time on Facebook. They ought to be teaching us the truth of God's Word and glorifying Him. Preach on! Amen! Boy, I'm really appreciating my church. That's just how we see it. We are evangelical but our focus is the Bible & the Lordship of Christ and not what we can do. We do believe we should tell others about Christ and we do teach His commandments but it's all done straight from the Bible. That keeps us plenty busy and we don't have time for our own preferences and ideas to be expounded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna T. Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Because--for most churches--no one can afford to raise a family on a yp salary. Well, that is very true but anyone truly called to a ministry shouldn't be thinking that way. Our pastor receives a ridiculously low salary. But, he can give testimony after testimony of having a need and seeing God provide for that need. Ministry shouldn't be about a career choice. It should be about being ready to be poured out for the sake of Christ and trusting the Father to provide. And, He will. I'm not trying to sound snarky! I know what you mean. I just wanted to point out that God will always provide for those who serve Him. He will often do so in unexpected ways and not always through a salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forty-two Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Because--for most churches--no one can afford to raise a family on a yp salary.Well' date=' that is very true but anyone truly called to a ministry shouldn't be thinking that way.[/quote']Argh! I have big feelings about this (and, for the sake of disclosure, yes, I am a pastor's wife). Why is this only true for pastors (and their families)? All Christians are called to serve. Why are pastors the only ones expected to rely on charity in order to do it? Our pastor receives a ridiculously low salary. But' date=' he can give testimony after testimony of having a need and seeing God provide for that need.[/quote']If his "ridiculously low salary" is truly the best your congregation can provide - your members are just as poor and reliant on charity to make ends meet - then, yes, it is a wonderful testimony of how God miraculously provides for His children. But if most members are substantially better off, financially speaking, than your pastor is, why aren't you paying him a living wage? As Paul writes to Timothy, "The laborer is worthy of his wages." Ministry shouldn't be about a career choice. It should be about being ready to be poured out for the sake of Christ and trusting the Father to provide. And' date=' He will.[/quote']True enough, but in most cases God provides through normal means - which is generally through people being paid for doing lawful work. No one says that all Christian lawyers or plumbers or cashiers or daycare workers "shouldn't be thinking that way" about being paid a living wage. So what makes pastors so different? I just wanted to point out that God will always provide for those who serve Him. He will often do so in unexpected ways and not always through a salary. So long as "serve Him" refers to all Christians, not just pastors - and their families - I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpupg Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 You know what, unless your YP's treatment of your daughter is a problem, I don't think you should worry about his opinion. If he's like most YP's, he's young, idealistic and has a lot yet to learn about life in general and parenting in particular. This is probably not the only area in which you and he would differ. Youth pastors tend to learn a lot from the youth and their parents. Let it go. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpupg Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 I can't speak to your YP, but our pastor doesn't support homeschooling either (for the same reason your YP mentioned.) I have decided not to care. It's my responsibility to take care of my children how I see fit. It really doesn't matter what he thinks. We have our reasons and that's that in my mind. It is a little difficult being only one of about 2 families that home school in our church, but I can't be bothered to care.... I would just drop it and not bring it up... if he does then I would politely tell him to shut thee up! ;-) :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvmy4blessings Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 Thanks to all the amazing responses! I really appreciate it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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