Day 5 of R&S English, and my kids are totally lost

[razorbackmama]

My 7th grader is doing R&S 5 after doing Easy Grammar 6. He had absolutely no clue what a complete/simple subject and a complete/simple predicate was.

 

My 5th grader is doing R&S 4. He's lost.

 

My 4th grader is doing R&S 3. She is semi-lost - was clueless about what a "complete thought" was today.

 

Of course, this is all in addition to them not being able to follow the instructions on what they are actually supposed to DO on the assignments to save their lives. Oh, and numbering their papers? Silly me....

 

Now, I *thought* that there was enough explanation, etc., so I have been having them do it on their own and come to me for help. Apparently they think they are doing just fine because they don't come to me for help, and then when I grade it in the evening I want to pull every last hair out of my head.

 

So NOW I either have to switch to something else (but WHAT???????) or find 45+ minutes in my day (but where???? I already spend 6 hours per day *actively* teaching someone) to sit down with them and actually TEACH each lesson.

 

Any suggestions?

[Calm37]

Rod & Staff is a good English program, but it does throw a ton of terminology at you very quickly. I have used several levels with my kids and they have never worked on their own. We read the lessons through together and do some of the exercises in the student book together. Then I have them do the worksheet for the lesson (if there is one) on their own.

 

If your child in 3 is doing OK, perhaps you could combine the other two in one level. Then, if you needed to read through the lesson with them, that would save you time.

[hmschooling]

What if you went down a level and maybe they'd move more quickly through it too... then be up to speed later instead of staying lost.

 

7th grader go to book 4

5th grader go to book 3 and

4th grader start w/book 2

 

They might finish those in a semester and then move back up...and starting lower and "getting it" , and getting it without you, is better than staying where they are struggling and just trying to "get through it". They'll never learn that way.

 

Or have them all watch all of Basic Cozy Grammar prior to starting their current R&S levels. Just a lesson or two a day and see if that helps, if not, go through it again more slowly. Many libraries carry it so you might find you can just borrow it while you need it.

[Avila]

never mind.

Edited September 16, 2009 by Asenik

[farmwife]

I would personally put them all in level 3. Buy three workbooks and then pass out the worksheet after you have taught the lesson. I was considering dropping it myself but I was convinced not too, (Thanks to this board) now I am glad I didn't. It does need the mama teach them. The best part is I am learning right along the way!

 

 

I have found the worksheets to be invaluable! Do the exersizes in the book orally and then give them a worksheet. It really helps!

 

I'm sure after your older children complete level 3 they could jump up a level. That would give them the foundation needed for the upper levels.

[Erica in OR]

I second the idea of combining two of the kids in a level. We're doing R&S 4 this year, after FLL1/FLL2/R&S 3. So far, R&S 4 has been a lot of review of R&S 3 concepts. We haven't done all of the exercises for each unit since it's quite repetitious, and have done all of them orally so far. If two kids were in one level, you could give them the review questions (in the teacher's book), read through the lesson with them, have them take turns doing the oral exercises, and assign the written exercises as homework, since they typically repeat the concept. It does take time, but in our experience, it's definitely more on the 20 min end than the 45 min.

 

Erica in OR

[Jane]

I know you're not going to like my response, but I *highly recommend* the oral portion of this program which is located in the teacher's book. Also, I start my children in book 4 and wouldn't go below that level for any of your children. I see others disagree, so I trust you will know what's best for your family.

 

I confess, I don't use R&S because it's the quickest and easiest program. I use it because I have found it to be the most effective.

 

HTH, and I agree with the advice to do the diagramming on the white/chalk board. :)

Edited September 16, 2009 by Jane

[razorbackmama]

I do think the levels are fine...truly ALL of this is total review for all of them (which is one reason why I'm so frustrated!). Prior to EG they used BJU.

 

I guess I'll have to figure out when to squeeze it all in.:tongue_smilie:

[LunaLee]

I know that in our house it takes a good 2 weeks or more of me sitting down and doing it with them for a new program to move smoothly. So maybe just give it time?:)

 

FWIW I had dd in 8th grade do the 5th grade book and she came from ps, so she barely only knew the general parts of speech when she started.It took her a minute to get to know the book and there was lots of hand holding, but eventually she was able to do it independently. Now she's back in ps and is sailing through grammar and she only did the one book.

[angela in ohio]

I would combine the 3rd and 4th grader. That will then only give you two books to teach. I can teach each lesson in about 10-15 minutes. It will be a half hour investment, but I always think reading, writing, and math are the most worth that investment of time.

[razorbackmama]

I know that in our house it takes a good 2 weeks or more of me sitting down and doing it with them for a new program to move smoothly. So maybe just give it time?:)

 

Very good point. And today's first lesson will be: THIS IS HOW YOU NUMBER A PAPER.:tongue_smilie:

[razorbackmama]

If the levels are fine then it is a matter of easing them into independence and maybe breaking the lessons down a bit more to start with.

 

Yeah, they're already quite independent, but I guess this just must be too much for them.:confused:

[swellmomma]

We use R&S as well. I don't need an extraordinary amount of time to teach it. I spend about 5 minutes orally reviewing the past work(I use the questions in the TM), 5 minutes reading the lesson with the child and then assign them the pages. If they do not set up their page correctly or have more errors than correct answers they start over. That makes them focus more and ask for help when they need it as it is much faster than repeating the entire lesson. I teach both R&S 3 but not together, they are in different Units in the book, so I teach each one separately. Right now I teach ds first while dd works on assignments she can do independantly, then later I work with dd while ds works on his own independant work. They do both sit at the kitchen table so I can be sure they are working well, but it really doesn't take much time to teach them with R&S (just 10 minutes each).

 

My kids are grade 5 doing the R&S3 book so like others have said set them back further. Maybe put both your 4th grader and your 5th grader in book 3, and your 7th grader into book 4. GIve that a try and see what happens. You won't be out any money and really at only 10 minutes per child to teach separately, it is not a huge chunk into your day time wise.

[christielee7278]

My 6th grader is doing 5 and I have had similar issues. His grammar experience before was public school and amounts to less than nothing. :tongue_smilie:

 

I had him start a section in his binder specifically for definitions and all those hints surrounded by stars in the book. That is the first thing he writes in his binder. It only takes a few minutes to review each day. When he has a definition down, he gets to check it off the list and we don't do daily review of that definition anymore. We go to weekly and then monthly review. This works for handwriting practice too because I don't accept it unless I can easily read it myself. :D

 

We also had (and still have occasionally) problems with numbering a page. I put a blank sheet of paper in the front of the English section of his LA binder. When I check a lesson at night, I write the lesson number on the that front paper. If he needs to redo work or whatever, I write it next to the number. If he did it right, he gets my initial or smiley or sticker.... If he didn't number his lesson, he gets a ? next to the number. I won't go on a hunt for a page and he doesn't get credit for completing the lesson until I see it.

[Sheila in OK]

Whew, I thought it was just me. :confused: My 6th grader is doing R&S English 4 (after completing Easy Grammar 5 last year) and is having daily meltdowns over it. In fact, I was coming here to ask for suggestions for what else to use. Maybe I should just stick it out? She is begging to go back to EG because the R&S is "too hard." So you think it will get better if we keep with it?

[Ellie]

Yeah, they're already quite independent, but I guess this just must be too much for them.:confused:

It's just completely different from what they've ever done before, yes? They'll catch on. And it doesn't mean, in case anyone was thinking this, that EG wasn't good; it just does things differently. There's a whole new jargon, KWIM?:)

[angela&4boys]

It's just completely different from what they've ever done before, yes? They'll catch on. And it doesn't mean, in case anyone was thinking this, that EG wasn't good; it just does things differently. There's a whole new jargon, KWIM?:)

 

Thanks, Ellie. I was starting to wonder if EG was up to par. We just started it this year and we are tear-free! :)

[MerryAtHope]

Yeah, they're already quite independent, but I guess this just must be too much for them.:confused:

 

We've had similar issues this year, I do think it's a combo of new terminology, new year, and needing some easing into it. I feel your pain, but only times 2, not times 6! If you don't have time to do one on one with each one daily, maybe you could every 2-3 days, and on the off days, maybe fill out the first answer as an example for them (even if the book already gives an example). I find sometimes this is enough extra help to get them going or lead them to ask questions.

 

Another thing I started having my kids do--number the steps in the instructions if there are 2 or more things for them to do! They write a 1 with a circle around it above the first thing to do, etc...

 

Merry :-)

[Alphabetika]

You've gotten good advice here. We're using R&S 5 this year moving into 6, after starting 5 partway through last year (5th grader this year). I told my dd that by the end of level 5, she'll know more grammar than I learned all the way through high school and college, and I loved grammar! It's a GREAT program, but it does take some getting used to. Hang in there and you won't be sorry!

[HSmom25andRN]

And I am having my oldest daughter do the 7th grade book over the next 2 years (and she is in 8th grade and went through the same book last year!). My 7th grader is doing the 6th grade book and my 4th grader is doing the 4th grade book.

After going through the 7th grade book I decided that what was covered was enough to get almost anyone through life. Angela

[StephanieZ]

One reassuring note. . . I'd hate for you to think that R&S is always a time intensive (for mom or child) program. . .

 

My dc have been doing R&S for years and they can do it almost all on their own at this point. I just get involved every so often for a new concept or if something stumps them. For instance, today I stepped in to spend time with ds10 on a lesson assigning a 3 paragraph book report. He might have done it OK on his own, but he hasn't done that before and I wanted to steer him right the first time instead of letting him flounder. (The vast majority of lessons are much more succinct.)

 

Point being, I think that once they've worked through a level, the next year it should go much more smoothly and require much, much, less Mom-time, especially once they are 10 or so and fairly independent in general.

 

This year, my 5th gr ds is doing the 2nd half of R&S4 and my 7th gr dd is doing R&S6. In my never-ending-quest for independent learning along with competence, I have gone to having the kids do ALL the written work, including the worksheets. (I used to do a lot orally and have them skip some problems, but that requires a lot more mom time, which is in short supply. I'd save that approach for dc under 10 and/or the first year with R&S. Honestly, I think for older dc who are proficient writers, it is just as efficient to just have them do it all than to pick and choose. The picking and choosing is more important for young dc for whom copying 10 sentences is a days' labor! A 12 yo who can do it in 90 seconds. . .)

 

I made them "log sheets" with every exercise, worksheet, exam, etc in order, with places to fill in date and score. When you lay it all out like that, you see that they can get it all done by doing one lesson (or worksheet) each day or maybe two lessons some days. (I actually just set "due dates" for each chapter test. . . and am letting them set the pace within that time frame.)

 

My dc generally get their "day"'s worth done in 10 minutes or less, most days and that is with zero mom time (I think I've had to help ds maybe twice in the last month and dd has never needed me yet this year -- doubt she will.) I grade their work and it is always near perfect. This isn't because they are grammar geniuses, it's just because they've each already been using R&S for a few years and so it is building on prior knowledge.

 

So, maybe if you take others' suggestions of combining the olders into one level (or all 3 into one level) and work through that one book together with them over 6 - 12 months, then you can let them continue on at their own pace. You may even decide that your older kids can (or maybe should) skip a level here or there. . . doing 3rd, then 5th, for instance, and that can help the more advanced student progress more rapidly to a more age-appropriate level.

 

(FYI, I've found level skipping to work fine as needed. I'd hazard to guess that you can skip one level every other year pretty easily if you want to, at least up to the Gr 6 level which is as far as we've gotten so far.)

 

Hang in there. It is a great program. Don't hesitate to go to an earlier level with the olders if that makes it more feasible for you.

[Quiver0f10]

 

If I was doing this with your kids I will sit everyone down together and star with the basics of the third book. Combine lessons but get that basic information down first.

 

 

:iagree: This year I am doing R&S 6 with my 9th, 8th and 6th graders. I teach the lesson to them all together, we go over the class practice orally together and then they do the assignments independently. The next day I assign the corrisponding worksheet as a quiz. It's been working really nice so far.

[missmoe]

I just wanted to mention the oral review in each lesson. I think that is an essential part of the R&S program. I've used it and found that it really helps with retention. And I second the advice you've received so far.;)