Tired of being asked by other moms to be dishonest re: Paypal

[lovetobehome]

I haven't read this whole thread, but when paypal changed their policy and did not inform me, I noticed fees being taken out when they never had been before. I called paypal, and the rep specifically told me that for using paypal on community boards, I SHOULD click the personal tab to avoid fees. So that is from the horse's mouth. My friend called and was told the very same thing. If you are a business, that is different....if you report income then you are a business. Most of us, probably 99.9% of us, are homeschooling parents trading around curriculum. If you were in my co-op I would call you my friend, and I would hand you cash. We aren't Walmart, or even Rainbow Resource, we are a community. I was told by paypal to request that the person sending money for my homeschool items click the PERSONAL tab so neither of us would get charged fees.

I don't feel bad about that at all, that is what they told me to do!

[mchel210]

Someone just paid me in Paypal and I believe they chose the selection personal. (I havent paid anyone since the switch) BUT...I didnt ask her to do it this way. The fee is very small...I have always had fees on my paypal. I figure it into my prices.

 

The problem is...Paypal says she doesnt have an address listed and now I cant print a shipping label. I price my items based on shipping from home and printing my labels. You cant ship via USPS online for media mail. I would have to go into the post office to ship this box now! I find it frustrating. It is worth the % to pay the small fee rather then go into the post office. At least here in South Florida where the lines are ALWAYS long at the post office.

[Julie in CA]

Rebecca, I'm not sure you're coming across clearly. Are you saying you get irritated with someone for trying to follow the 'rules' the way the understand them?

 

If someone agrees to buy or sell on Paypal, then I think they SHOULD follow the rules, "no matter how they hurt the seller or how unfair and ridiculous they may be". I don't think it the 'right' thing to do to blatantly disregard the rules Paypal has in place, yet continue to take advatage of their service.

 

JMO.

It occurs to me that we've had this exact discussion with Rebecca regarding Medicare fraud also. Her values in this regard are very firm, even though they're in direct opposition to rules, laws, and also in direct opposition to what most on this board consider morally and ethically sound choices.

 

There are always going to be people who feel entitled to break/bend the rules for their own gain, and most of them justify it with the idea that they are "good people" that are being unfairly treated. It's been around since Cain and Abel, and it's not going away this side of heaven. :sad:

[Tree House Academy]

It occurs to me that we've had this exact discussion with Rebecca regarding Medicare fraud also. Her values in this regard are very firm, even though they're in direct opposition to rules, laws, and also in direct opposition to what most on this board consider morally and ethically sound choices.

 

There are always going to be people who feel entitled to break/bend the rules for their own gain, and most of them justify it with the idea that they are "good people" that are being unfairly treated. It's been around since Cain and Abel, and it's not going away this side of heaven. :sad:

 

 

OMG are you serious??? First of all, I spoke in a thread about nursing homes where others gave their views as well. Who do you think you are? I mean really? WHO do you think you are to call me out like that! Back off! I have never committed medicare fraud...I think people in nursing homes should be entitled to what little bit they have left and not have to give it all up for sub-par care. Others agreed with me, yet I am just not "morally sound" or "ethical." I pm'd you. If you have an issue with me, personally, bring it to ME. This is ridiculous. Others on this thread have agreed with me. And you know what, I was the first to admit that I DON'T break the rules because I just choose not to use paypal anymore. You must be some perfect priss to call me out like that. Oh My God!

Edited August 31, 2009 by Tree House Academy

[asta]

What the heck is going on in internet fora this week? The one I work at is full of crazy crap, too.

 

BTW, I agree with you Rebecca, and I don't even know you.

 

Hang in there, everyone - school is just starting (or continuing for some of us)

 

 

asta

[*********]

internet fora

 

Fora. *snort* LOVE it. :D

[Tree House Academy]

What the heck is going on in internet fora this week? The one I work at is full of crazy crap, too.

 

BTW, I agree with you Rebecca, and I don't even know you.

 

Hang in there, everyone - school is just starting (or continuing for some of us)

 

 

asta

 

Thank you. It appears that this board is full of people who hold grudges and then attempt to defame your character if you say something they don't agree with. Psycho is the word I would use....

[Julie in CA]

Thank you. It appears that this board is full of people who hold grudges and then attempt to defame your character if you say something they don't agree with. Psycho is the word I would use....

I don't need to defame your character. You're doing it yourself. I'm posting both the message that arrived to me in my inbox this morning, and my response. I've been here a long time, and I don't think I have a reputation for "calling people out", nor for being harsh and unkind, and I can't see what I'd be "holding a grudge" about? I would never, for instance, call you a "psycho"...(or be profane when writing to you or about you)...?

 

Are you SERIOUS??? A thread where some agreed and disagreed BOTH times and you are going to call me out and act all "holier than thou." WTF??? If you have a problem with me, bring it to me!

Nope. You're unable to be swayed by anything that anyone tries to tell you about honesty vs. entitlement. I'm sorry you're offended, but I don't see why you are? In both cases, you're clearly in the minority in justifying what is, after all, a blatant disregard for rules/laws. I'm also sorry that you are so ready to toss out the phrase, "holier than thou" as a defense against anyone who would point out that your choices are...morally problematic...

 

In the same way that you are strident in your opinion, I am fairly strident about mine. Why should you get to express yourself, and I should not? We disagree. That doesn't mean that I should refrain from adding to the conversation.

 

I don't appreciate the vulgarity in my in-box. If you wouldn't post it on the board, or say it freely in public, please don't send it to me either.

 

-Julie

p.s. I don't have a problem with you--just a problem with relaxed morals. What I did in my post was point out the consistency of your beliefs across the board, it seems.

[Tree House Academy]

I don't need to defame your character. You're doing it yourself. I'm posting both the message that arrived to me in my inbox this morning, and my response. I've been here a long time, and I don't think I have a reputation for "calling people out", nor for being harsh and unkind, and I can't see what I'd be "holding a grudge" about? I would never, for instance, call you a "psycho"...(or be profane when writing to you or about you)...?

 

 

Nope. You're unable to be swayed by anything that anyone tries to tell you about honesty vs. entitlement. I'm sorry you're offended, but I don't see why you are? In both cases, you're clearly in the minority in justifying what is, after all, a blatant disregard for rules/laws. I'm also sorry that you are so ready to toss out the phrase, "holier than thou" as a defense against anyone who would point out that your choices are...morally problematic...

 

In the same way that you are strident in your opinion, I am fairly strident about mine. Why should you get to express yourself, and I should not? We disagree. That doesn't mean that I should refrain from adding to the conversation.

 

I don't appreciate the vulgarity in my in-box. If you wouldn't post it on the board, or say it freely in public, please don't send it to me either.

 

-Julie

p.s. I don't have a problem with you--just a problem with relaxed morals. What I did in my post was point out the consistency of your beliefs across the board, it seems.

 

I didn't use profanity. I used an acronym. It could have meant "what the fizzle" for all you know. Don't go accusing.....

 

Since you refuse to make our issues private, then I will post my reply here too. Oh, and nope, you didn't call me psycho. You called me out personally and said I had no morals or ethics. Much better! :glare:

 

You called me out personally. I expressed my opinion without bashing anyone (until I was called out personally by the OP). Vulgarity??? Really? Anything I wrote in your inbox, I wrote to you on the board. Please don't ever think I have a problem expressing myself.

 

Just because I don't agree with being the "perfect priss rule follower" doesn't mean I am some outlaw who is out to get all I can from whomever I can.

 

Of course you are free to state your views on the topic, but if you have a personal problem and want to talk about ME personally, I would prefer you bring it to me. I never said a thing about you or your character on the board and you could have expressed your opinion without using me as your example. There are others on that thread who outright agree with me. I didn't see you calling them out. There were also others on the nursing home thread that agreed with me. Again, they were not called out.

 

And might I just add how RIDICULOUS it is to have a private conversation like this out on a message board. But whatever. It seems your issues are very personal and have very little to do with this thread.

Edited August 31, 2009 by Tree House Academy

[Tree House Academy]

I don't need to defame your character. You're doing it yourself.

 

Wow. You know, I totally understand the term "judgemental Christians" now. And you are perfect, I assume. I love all this judgement I am getting. But, at the end of the day, who is this between? You and I? Nope...God and I. I don't claim to be perfect, but that is the great thing about my God. He is full of forgiveness and He loves me - regardless of what you think of me. :D Do I talk like Jesus? Nope. Am I perfect? Absolutely not! But do I deserve to be attacked as a Christian and have my morals and ethics questioned simply because I don't agree with YOU? No. My relationship with God is between God and I. It is a private party and no one else is invited.

 

Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment that you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

 

Matthew 7.1-5

 

Can you say you aren't judging me? I took this passage from the Bible - God's word. So if you are judging me, doesn't that mean you are not following God's rule? Does that make you less of a Christian?

Edited August 31, 2009 by Tree House Academy

[Julie in CA]

It seems your issues are very personal and have very little to do with this thread.[/b]

I don't understand. What issues would those be?

I don't have anything personal against you, just the way you vehemently defend your right to steal to make things "fair".

 

As far as I know, we have no other disagreement. Call me whatever you wish, and if you re-read, you *have* called me many things here, but the thing I'm against is feeling justified in breaking rules and taking what isn't yours. Because you believe that it's ok to take what isn't yours, and I'm fully against that, you are probably going to think I'm calling you out. I'm not. Originally I was pointing out to another poster the fruitlessness of trying to convince you to reconsider your position.

[*********]

Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment that you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

 

Matthew 7.1-5

 

Can you say you aren't judging me? I took this passage from the Bible - God's word. So if you are judging me, doesn't that mean you are not following God's rule? Does that make you less of a Christian?

 

But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

 

1 Corinthians 5:11-13 (bold emphasis added)

[Tree House Academy]

I don't understand. What issues would those be?

I don't have anything personal against you, just the way you vehemently defend your right to steal to make things "fair".

 

As far as I know, we have no other disagreement. Call me whatever you wish, and if you re-read, you *have* called me many things here, but the thing I'm against is feeling justified in breaking rules and taking what isn't yours. Because you believe that it's ok to take what isn't yours, and I'm fully against that, you are probably going to think I'm calling you out. I'm not. Originally I was pointing out to another poster the fruitlessness of trying to convince you to reconsider your position.

 

 

Exactly what have I stolen? I have stated MANY TIMES that I don't agree with paypal rules, but have never asked anyone to pay me using "personal" as an option. I have paid someone twice choosing personal myself. Then I decided that, because I do not agree with paypal's rules, I will not do business with their service. I now no longer use Paypal and it is for this reason. What have I "stolen" exactly?

 

And you think that saying I "have no morals or ethics" and actually accusing me of "stealing" when I have not is OKAY? Is that the Christian way to act? Is that not calling me out? Is that not judging me and falsifying truths about me?

 

I also never stole anything with medicare. I simply stated that I don't feel it is right for the nursing homes to take that money from people as they age and die. I have never personally been in the situation and have never stolen anything in my life.

[Tree House Academy]

But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

 

1 Corinthians 5:11-13 (bold emphasis added)

 

And in exactly what way am I greedy? I stopped using paypal because I don't agree with the fees. I paid OTHER people using personal to save THEM money, not myself. So really, how is that "judging" working for you?

[Tree House Academy]

I don't understand. What issues would those be?

I don't have anything personal against you, just the way you vehemently defend your right to steal to make things "fair".

 

 

 

I assume that, if you hold grudges from a thread that happened, what, 3-4 months ago, that you have issues with me.

[Radish4ever]

Someone just paid me in Paypal and I believe they chose the selection personal. (I havent paid anyone since the switch) BUT...I didnt ask her to do it this way. The fee is very small...I have always had fees on my paypal. I figure it into my prices.

 

The problem is...Paypal says she doesnt have an address listed and now I cant print a shipping label.

 

 

You are able to ship using Paypal regardless of whether or not you received a payment from someone by using this link:

www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_ship-now

[hornblower]

Tree House Academy - when did this become about you?

 

The OP didn't say it was about you. Your first post on this topic was that you didn't have any transactions with the OP.

 

Why are you so defensive on this? If you don't think it's wrong, then you keep on merrily on your way. Why do you need to justify it to us?

[Tree House Academy]

Tree House Academy - when did this become about you?

 

The OP didn't say it was about you. Your first post on this topic was that you didn't have any transactions with the OP.

 

Why are you so defensive on this? If you don't think it's wrong, then you keep on merrily on your way. Why do you need to justify it to us?

 

 

At first, I took offense to the OP calling out Christians. I don't see it the way she does, so I was responding to that aspect at first. Then, the OP actually DID call me out later in the thread (...split personality here vs HOD board). Then she even tried to post this thread there so she could show everyone what a bad, bad Christian I am. Luckily, the admins there shut that down before it got going well. I found it amusing, because she is obviously such a rule follower, but she did something that was against the rules of that board by posting this thread there.

 

Now, I am defending myself because I have been specifically named as a liar and a thief, greedy, immoral, and unethical. Surely you can read the posts and see where that has occurred.

 

However, I won't be the one answering for those false judgements in the end anyway. ;)

[mchel210]

You are able to ship using Paypal regardless of whether or not you received a payment from someone by using this link:

www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_ship-now

 

Thank you for sharing that!

[PineFarmMom]

However, I won't be the one answering for those false judgements in the end anyway. ;)

 

Rebecca, I've not read the whole thread and have no axe to grind in the paypal wars. I have discovered that I like money orders better. ;) I just wanted to urge you to let it go. For your own benefit, for your peace, walk away!!! Take time away from the boards and pray!! I know the feeling of wanting to defend myself, but often it doesn't help in the end. These boards are vicious and the spirit here is so often very bitter. :(

Edited August 31, 2009 by Texas T

[*********]

If someone wants to correct you in your walk with Christ, as Christ does so often encourage us to do for one another, it won't be done productively in the manner that I have seen you hammered here. There is a lot, Biblically, about handling things in love, and I'm just not seein' it very often 'round these parts!! ;) If you are wrong in your paypal transactions, I don't believe He'll use people ganging up on you to make said correction. I'm just sayin'.

 

Can I just say, I TRIED to do this with Rebecca. I sent her two pm's, on two different days, regarding her 'conduct' in this thread. I spoke gently and in love to her. I stated that I understood her position. The only correction I offered was in regard to her 'conduct' in this thread. It wasn't even about whether or not I thought what she did regarding Paypal policies was 'right' or not.

 

After the second PM, she asked me not to correct her again, saying that it was only between her and God.

 

I reminded her that the Word gives instruction, several times, for believers to correct believers in their walk. I then said, since she asked me not to pm her with my corrections anymore, that I would just stick to the thread.

 

She then pm'd me back (to which I did not respond, since she had previously asked me NOT to), and accused me of 'threatening' to 'call her out in public'.

 

So, I guess I should just not post on this public board if I disagree with another Christian? I don't know. Seems like that happens all.the.time around here.

 

I tried to handle it with love. I did it privately, because I did not want Rebecca to think I was 'ganging up on her'. I was trying to be a believer correcting/admonishing another believer in love. I did it the best way I knew how.

[Tree House Academy]

Rebecca, I've not read the whole thread and have no axe to grind in the paypal wars. I have discovered that I like money orders better. ;) I just wanted to urge you to let it go. For your own benefit, for your peace, walk away!!! Take time away from the boards and pray!! I know the feeling of wanting to defend myself, but often it doesn't help in the end. These boards are vicious and the spirit here is so often very bitter. :(

 

 

Thank you! I have prayed about this - and in the end, God knows my heart. He knows that "thief" and "liar" do not describe me and it is not me who will answer for those falsehoods. I think it is clear, for those who care to read, where my position lies. And for those who are intent upon twisting my words and bad mouthing me, well, they will answer for that, not me.

 

I admit, fully, that my response has not always been the uttmost Christian attitude, but in my studies, only one Man was perfect and that was Jesus. I can try to be like him, but we all fall short of the Glory of God. The test is to love one another even in times when we fall short. Judging and "casting out" is NOT what God tells us to do. Hanging on a cross, Jesus said, "Forgive them father..." about the men who had so beaten, abused, and crucified him. I am not asking forgiveness from any of the judgemental "perfect" Christians who weighed in on how "greedy, theiving, lying, etc" that I apparently am. But I do ask God to forgive them their judgements.

[PineFarmMom]

I tried to handle it with love. I did it privately, because I did not want Rebecca to think I was 'ganging up on her'. I was trying to be a believer correcting/admonishing another believer in love. I did it the best way I knew how.

 

That is good. You tried to handle it with love. And even then, speaking truth in love, I'm seeing God show me lately that once it's spoken I can't be responsible for how that person handles it. When I'm doing what he asks, sometimes he says just walk away from it after the Word is spoken. Also, people on the outside can't really know what is going on in private messages.

 

I just was wanting to encourage her, on her part, to let it go as far as the board arguments go. Sometimes getting in the mix of things here, I can't see the forest for the trees when I'm trying to stand for truth. This is just a tough place sometimes, ya know? Even if I am rightly corrected on these boards, it's tough to see any truth in it until I walk away with it and handle it with God and not with man, kwim? I've also taken stands that I know are lined up with God's Word, stands that are right, and the bitter opposition is pretty rough. I'm often just taken off guard by the viciousness here...not you, just people in general. It's just a hard place to be corrected and a hard place to receive correction, even when the correction is true, and I have often been corrected in truth here.

Edited August 31, 2009 by Texas T

[Pink Fairy]

Can I just say, I TRIED to do this with Rebecca. I sent her two pm's, on two different days, regarding her 'conduct' in this thread. I spoke gently and in love to her. I stated that I understood her position. The only correction I offered was in regard to her 'conduct' in this thread. It wasn't even about whether or not I thought what she did regarding Paypal policies was 'right' or not.

 

After the second PM, she asked me not to correct her again, saying that it was only between her and God.

 

I reminded her that the Word gives instruction, several times, for believers to correct believers in their walk. I then said, since she asked me not to pm her with my corrections anymore, that I would just stick to the thread.

 

She then pm'd me back (to which I did not respond, since she had previously asked me NOT to), and accused me of 'threatening' to 'call her out in public'.

 

So, I guess I should just not post on this public board if I disagree with another Christian? I don't know. Seems like that happens all.the.time around here.

 

I tried to handle it with love. I did it privately, because I did not want Rebecca to think I was 'ganging up on her'. I was trying to be a believer correcting/admonishing another believer in love. I did it the best way I knew how.

 

Perhaps it's time to shake the dust from your feet and move on. There are plenty of other threads awaiting your contribution. ;) This one has outlived it's usefulness by a mile.

[Tree House Academy]

Can I just say, I TRIED to do this with Rebecca. I sent her two pm's, on two different days, regarding her 'conduct' in this thread. I spoke gently and in love to her. I stated that I understood her position. The only correction I offered was in regard to her 'conduct' in this thread. It wasn't even about whether or not I thought what she did regarding Paypal policies was 'right' or not.

 

After the second PM, she asked me not to correct her again, saying that it was only between her and God.

 

I reminded her that the Word gives instruction, several times, for believers to correct believers in their walk. I then said, since she asked me not to pm her with my corrections anymore, that I would just stick to the thread.

 

She then pm'd me back (to which I did not respond, since she had previously asked me NOT to), and accused me of 'threatening' to 'call her out in public'.

 

So, I guess I should just not post on this public board if I disagree with another Christian? I don't know. Seems like that happens all.the.time around here.

 

I tried to handle it with love. I did it privately, because I did not want Rebecca to think I was 'ganging up on her'. I was trying to be a believer correcting/admonishing another believer in love. I did it the best way I knew how.

 

 

Do you see how pm'ing me "regarding my conduct" could come off as a BIT condescending, Bethany?

 

You did do it privately - that is true. However, you also said, "I guess I don't know what else to say to a Christian who does not want any advice/accountability from other Christians. Other than, of course, if that's the way you feel, I will not send you any more private messages. I will, however, feel free (since this is a PUBLIC forum), to question you in public on the forum threads." Which, to me, sounds very much like a "threat."

[*********]

Perhaps it's time to shake the dust from your feet and move on. There are plenty of other threads awaiting your contribution. ;) This one has outlived it's usefulness by a mile.

 

 

LOL, you make a good point. :001_smile:

[*********]

Do you see how pm'ing me "regarding my conduct" could come off as a BIT condescending, Bethany?

 

You did do it privately - that is true. However, you also said, "I guess I don't know what else to say to a Christian who does not want any advice/accountability from other Christians. Other than, of course, if that's the way you feel, I will not send you any more private messages. I will, however, feel free (since this is a PUBLIC forum), to question you in public on the forum threads." Which, to me, sounds very much like a "threat."

 

A threat? I truly am very sorry if my wording in my last PM sounded, even in the slightest way, as threatening. I meant it simply as a statement that I would follow your wishes to not pm you anymore, and keep it to the public forum.

 

Please, accept my apology if you understood it to mean anything else.

 

However, to be perfectly honest, I don't see how that could be a 'threat'. I didn't say I'd say nasty things, or lie about you, or anything else 'threatning'. Just that I'd keep my comments to you restricted to 'public' if you didn't want me to speak to you in private.

 

And no, I don't see how sending a pm to someone regarding their conduct on the board is condescending. OBVIOUSLY you disagree with my comments, but that doesn't mean they're condescending.

[*********]

That is good. You tried to handle it with love. And even then, speaking truth in love, I'm seeing God show me lately that once it's spoken I can't be responsible for how that person handles it. When I'm doing what he asks, sometimes he says just walk away from it after the Word is spoken. Also, people on the outside can't really know what is going on in private messages.

 

I just was wanting to encourage her, on her part, to let it go as far as the board arguments go. Sometimes getting in the mix of things here, I can't see the forest for the trees when I'm trying to stand for truth. This is just a tough place sometimes, ya know? Even if I am rightly corrected on these boards, it's tough to see any truth in it until I walk away with it and handle it with God and not with man, kwim? I've also taken stands that I know are lined up with God's Word, stands that are right, and the bitter opposition is pretty rough. I'm often just taken off guard by the viciousness here...not you, just people in general. It's just a hard place to be corrected and a hard place to receive correction, even when the correction is true, and I have often been corrected in truth here.

 

I do know. I can identify with everything you wrote here personally; I'm sure most of us can. Who here hasn't been confronted with the truth, in love, and still had it sting? Either on these boards, IRL, or some other way. I know I have. It's hard, for me at least, to always be gracious in admitting that something I did/said/believe, whatever, was wrong, and not in line with the Word of God.

 

And let me say, that sure does happen to me. A lot. And I thank the Lord for it. Not always in the moment, LOL, but later. It's a great way to grow. And the Lord uses other believers to help us do that sometimes.

Edited August 31, 2009 by bethanyniez

[PineFarmMom]

Thank you! I have prayed about this - and in the end, God knows my heart. QUOTE]

 

That was why I was saying walk away also. Only God knows the heart. I just don't see anything productive or loving coming further from the arguments here, on either side. It was hurting me for you and hurting me for them. I've been on both sides of these things and have been wrong and right at different times, so I say it humbly.

 

If disputes here affect home, family, or peace of mind, then walk away. It may not at all for you or for others, I'm just making the suggestion. And by the way, God Bless each of you!!! :)

[Tree House Academy]

A threat? I truly am very sorry if my wording in my last PM sounded, even in the slightest way, as threatening. I meant it simply as a statement that I would follow your wishes to not pm you anymore, and keep it to the public forum.

 

Please, accept my apology if you understood it to mean anything else.

 

However, to be perfectly honest, I don't see how that could be a 'threat'. I didn't say I'd say nasty things, or lie about you, or anything else 'threatning'. Just that I'd keep my comments to you restricted to 'public' if you didn't want me to speak to you in private.

 

And no, I don't see how sending a pm to someone regarding their conduct on the board is condescending. OBVIOUSLY you disagree with my comments, but that doesn't mean they're condescending.

 

I didn't ask you not to pm me. I asked you to back off a bit - especially at the time when you sent the last pm. I felt I should be able to stand up against the lies that Julie in CA was spouting about me without being reminded immediately of my "conduct." Backed in a corner, I will almost always come out fighting.

 

And you did misrepresent me - in your one post on the board, a quote from scripture, you made bold the word "greedy." Never once did I state anything in this thread (or the other) that said that I wanted money (or anything else) and didn't care whom I hurt to get it. Yet, that is how I have been portrayed.

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

(just drawing the line here to make it clear that this is not directed toward only one individual)

All those who say this thread is dead, you are so right! We are going in circles now. I posted this morning that I was not going to continue to post to it and then, low and behold, if I wasn't attacked personally and called out by name just afterwards.

 

It is time to let it die. And I tell you all that I walk away with my head held high. And "tone" or "conduct" errors are between God and I...while any lies you (not a specific "you" here, but in general) spouted about me will have to be between you and God.

Edited August 31, 2009 by Tree House Academy

[Nestof3]

As Christians, when we are corrected by someone else, our response should really be to pray about it, search scripture and meditate on it. It's hard because of our flesh and our hating to be wrong or challenged, but I think it is the appropriate response. Getting angry usually indicates a lack of a teachable spirit, which I've seen in every member of my family.

 

As for others saying, "and I cannot believe they are a Christian and do that," it can be seen as a compliment or a testimony that Christians are known for their honestly. I'm not sure if people say that about people of other religions/lack of.

 

I'm not suggesting people should not debate and discuss, I am simply saying that telling someone they have no right to question us is usually a pride response.

Edited September 1, 2009 by nestof3

[Melissa in CA]

As Christians, when we are corrected by someone else, our response should really be to pray about it, search scripture and meditate on it. It's hard because of our flesh and our hating to be wrong or challenged, but I think it is the appropriate response. Getting angry usually indicates a lack of a teachable spirit, which I've seen in every member of my family.

 

First, let me state that I completely agree. We should always strive to have a teachable spirit, and pray that the Lord will reveal any errors in our thinking and/or conduct. But like also mentioned, we are human...not perfect Christian robots.:D It is not always easy to disconnect our human emotions. In my opinion, Rebecca was getting lambasted and put down for no real reason...and yes, I have read every post. She was falsely accused of a variety of things with no proof except her opinion in regards to Paypal's rules, and the fact that she paid a couple other homeschoolers with the personal option. I think she has a right to her opinion without being labeled a dishonest greedy Christian, and if those she paid were not happy with her using the personal option to save them some money, they surely could have told her so. :confused:

 

Has Rebecca responded in a perfect Christian manner in this thread....no...and I'm sure she'll agree that she has not (and neither have many of you, regardless of what you may think). But cmon people, being falsely accused of something is a sure-fire way of getting someones dander up! I know it does me, because my honor, character, and integrity are important to me. Should they be? I don't know, in all honesty, but if you want to get me on the defensive...falsely attack my character. It will tick me off each and every time. I personally thought she was being zeroed out, and that was unfair, and unChristlike from some of you. Bringing up other threads into this thread...very unfair and I'm not sure what the point of that was, except to try and further hurt or malign her character. Trying to 'reveal' her to an entirely other message board? Yikes. Wrong on sooooo many levels. :glare:

 

She came out defensively swinging because she was upset and hurt. Hello?? A loving Christian would have backed off and prayed for her...not continue the attack to make a point, regardless of the hurt being inflicted. I think the majority of you were not acting very Christlike. Period. There is a time to speak up, and a time to remain silent.

 

I'm just sayin'. :glare:

[Peek a Boo]

It occurs to me that we've had this exact discussion with Rebecca regarding Medicare fraud also. Her values in this regard are very firm, even though they're in direct opposition to rules, laws, and also in direct opposition to what most on this board consider morally and ethically sound choices.

 

There are always going to be people who feel entitled to break/bend the rules for their own gain, and most of them justify it with the idea that they are "good people" that are being unfairly treated. It's been around since Cain and Abel, and it's not going away this side of heaven. :sad:

 

Let she who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

would you have killed the Hebrew baby boys instead of lying?

would you have run back to Herod about the Christ's location?

would you have helped Joseph and Mary flee to Egypt? turned them in?

helped Saul persecute the Christians?

 

back to my post about differences in how to proceed ethically when faced with various decisions. And it's not all life and death, either. Just because something is legal or policy does not mean we are unethical or immoral if we decide to NOT hold to those laws or policies. And it doesn't mean we're "all about me" if we do so.

[Peek a Boo]

Hello?? A loving Christian would have backed off and prayed for her...not continue the attack to make a point, regardless of the hurt being inflicted. I think the majority of you were not acting very Christlike. Period. There is a time to speak up, and a time to remain silent.

 

I'm just sayin'. :glare:

 

no kidding. now we'll see who's got a "teachable spirit."

[Julie in CA]

Let she who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

would you have killed the Hebrew baby boys instead of lying?

would you have run back to Herod about the Christ's location?

would you have helped Joseph and Mary flee to Egypt? turned them in?

helped Saul persecute the Christians?

 

back to my post about differences in how to proceed ethically when faced with various decisions. And it's not all life and death, either. Just because something is legal or policy does not mean we are unethical or immoral if we decide to NOT hold to those laws or policies. And it doesn't mean we're "all about me" if we do so.

Really...so lying to save a few bucks is the same thing as disobeying civil laws in order to carry out the bigger purpose of obeying God's will? I'm sorry, but I cannot equate the two. We'll have to disagree about that. As for the direct issue of PayPal fees, if you've agreed to abide by the terms of service, but you then decide you think they're "unfair" and shouldn't apply to you, then you use the service anyway, I'm sorry, but that is stealing. How is it not?

 

I will definitely be considering my part in this thread, but honestly, nothing I've done or said has been untruthful, or even has been stated as an attack. I did point out that the justification of bad behavior is nothing new, and that I've disagreed with Rebecca about this same issue (on a larger scale) in the past. That her response was extremely defensive rather than considering why we have different points of view on the issue of entitlement is...not incredibly surprising, just disappointing. In the same way that I will come away from this giving a lot of thought to the fact that you so clearly think I'm wrong, hopefully eventually Rebecca will let in the tiniest thought about the fact that so many disagree with her perspective, and that her personal views on this may be contrary to God's law. I'm not, at this time, regretful about standing for ethics, though as I said, I'll give it some thought. Certainly it's important to me to be kind, while at the same time not being a quavering mouse about *speaking the truth* even when it may bring profanity and disapproval.

 

Thank you for giving me food for thought.

Respectfully,

Julie

[Melissa in CA]

Really...so lying to save a few bucks is the same thing as disobeying civil laws in order to carry out the bigger purpose of obeying God's will?

 

How do we know God's will isn't for Rebecca to help another homeschooler by using the personal option in her purchases saving them some much needed money? Frankly, we don't know. Life really isn't THAT black and white, though some love to try and make it so. Rahab, for instance, blatantly went against her king, flat out lied to him (sin, sin, sin) and hid the spies who came to spy out Jericho and destroy it...killing many, many people. Wouldn't that be considered treason?? Not to mention sinful, somewhat selfish behavior considering she saved her own neck and let the rest of the city fend for themselves? I'm not trying to equate God's purposes and those of man, and I know that Rahab was not a "Christian" in today's sense of the word, but lying often brought about God's plan...whether He condoned it or not, KWIM? We know what Paypal's rules are, though those are now actually in question considering the call to Paypal a previous poster mentioned who was told to use the personal option, but we don't always know God's will in each and every circumstance. I say definitely obey the rules, but if for some reason you feel a prompting in your heart to pay with the personal option....could that possibly be the Holy Spirit directing you? That's a call each individual must make, and it's between them and God.

 

I will definitely be considering my part in this thread, but honestly, nothing I've done or said has been untruthful

 

But, did you honestly speak the truth in love? Honestly? Perhaps in your heart you did, but your words seemed to say otherwise. Bringing up the thread on Medicare fraud seemed highly suspicious in regards to a loving heart toward Rebecca.

 

Not meaning to single you out Julie as there were others in this thread who seemed hurtful, but you oftentimes come across as very black and white in your posts...like your way IS God's way, and any other way is, well, NOT God's way :D (I have family like this, so it is very familiar to me). Perhaps that is not at all how you truly are IRL or how you mean to come across in your posts. I always try to give the poster the benefit of the doubt, and hope they do the same for me. ;)

 

Regardless of our thoughts on Paypal and the like, none of us are perfect in all we do. Even if we do the right thing but our motive is wrong, then that too is sin. I kind-of relate to Paul...I often feel like I am the chief of all sinners. I do what I don't want to do and don't do what I know to do. And oftentimes when I do the right thing, it is for the WONG reason. Aiy-yi-yi. Such a sinner am I. :tongue_smilie: God's grace, thankfully, covers a multitude of sins. I was thinking though, shouldn't we also be covering the sins of our sisters as well? I don't know that it's best to bring them to the forefront and expose them to the censure of others....not even under the guise of "speaking the truth." I think it's probably best to speak that kind of truth in private, don't you? I hope that makes sense; I feel like I am speaking in riddles this morning. :001_huh::001_smile:

 

Anyhow, no offense meant, hope none was taken.

[Tree House Academy]

As for the direct issue of PayPal fees, if you've agreed to abide by the terms of service, but you then decide you think they're "unfair" and shouldn't apply to you, then you use the service anyway, I'm sorry, but that is stealing. How is it not?

 

And if you would remove the blinders, I have said, MANY TIMES, that I no longer use paypal because of the fees and that TWICE *I* chose personal to benefit someone else...not myself. Calling me a thief and calling me out here when there are MANY others that agree with ME (on this thread and the other) is in no way Christian like..nor was it done in love. Sounds to me like you held a grudge from the nursing home thread. My opinions have not changed on either of the topics. Accusing me of committing Medicare fraud is a whole heck of a stretch from my statements in that thread as well.

 

nothing I've done or said has been untruthful, or even has been stated as an attack. I did point out that the justification of bad behavior is nothing new, and that I've disagreed with Rebecca about this same issue (on a larger scale) in the past.

 

Really? Your first post accused me of medicare fraud and called me a thief. ???? Nope...nothing untruthful there. :001_huh::confused:

 

...hopefully eventually Rebecca will let in the tiniest thought about the fact that so many disagree with her perspective, and that her personal views on this may be contrary to God's law. I'm not, at this time, regretful about standing for ethics, though as I said, I'll give it some thought. Certainly it's important to me to be kind, while at the same time not being a quavering mouse about *speaking the truth* even when it may bring profanity and disapproval.

 

Wow...you really think everyone on this thread...or even the "majority" disagreed with me. How sad. This thread was pretty split. There were a handful of the "holier than thou" crowd who chose to judge, there were some who felt that following the rules was important but who chose not to attack, there was a good number who rode the middle and stated that this was all news to them, and there were others who totally and outright agreed with me. To think you were the majority is just silly.

 

 

 

There will be very little that I consider from *your* attacks.

Edited September 2, 2009 by Tree House Academy

[Julie in CA]

How do we know God's will isn't for Rebecca to help another homeschooler by using the personal option in her purchases saving them some much needed money?

 

 

Not meaning to single you out Julie as there were others in this thread who seemed hurtful, but you oftentimes come across as very black and white in your posts...like your way IS God's way, and any other way is, well, NOT God's way.

 

 

Anyhow, no offense meant, hope none was taken.

As I said before, there is a difference between disobeying civil authorities in order to carry out God's greater purpose of salvation, and breaking your agreement with a person or entity in order to save a few dollars (save sounds better than steal, no?), or condoning that action. As far as things like that go, I do think the Bible is clear. We are to obey civil laws unless they demand direct disobedience to God's law.

 

If I saw someone steal a $2 item from a store, I'd absolutely call them on it, and I doubt that I'd be willing to consider it as a part of God's will that they should have the item, or even give it to someone else. Yes, it's black and white. We all sin, we all fall short, but the standard remains the same. The only time I'm openly disapproving is when someone *stridently defends* their entitlement to break God's law.

 

I truly didn't realize that I had a reputation for unkindness. Occasionally standing with God's Word even when it may offend, yes, but harshly antagonizing people overall, I didn't realize. I humbly apologize to the ladies on the board whom I may have offended over the years, and I'll step back from posting until I have a better grip on where I've been going wrong.

 

Thank you so much, I truly value your correction, and will be working on this.

Sincerely,

Julie

[Murphy101]

I think if people really have an issue with paypal fees then they need to spread the word and declare that on such and such day no one will be willing to use paypal or at least that they won't use features that charge a fee.

 

Or maybe an entire weekend.

 

Bottom line is that as long as the majority will pay then everyone will be expected to pay.

 

twisting the terms or whatever one calls it will just get the loopholes closed - most likely by paypal starting to charge the fee regardless of purchase type.

 

Just my .02

[LearningGrace]

I just came across this tonight and am very glad that you posted on this topic. Someone asked me to do that from another board recently and I have continued to use that method for the people from whom I have purchased school books over the past couple of weeks. I did not previously read the PayPal explanation until your post. Thank you for including it here. I, too, will no longer do this as I am a Christian and personally consider that to be dishonest as well.

 

Thanks again for bringing it up.

[ccmom]

As someone else said wisely, price your item according to your net receipt (I am not saying profit simply b/c we never make a profit by selling used curriculum). Either way, it's usually a good deal for the buyer, assuming the books are in good condition.

 

I originally signed up for Paypal as a zero fee account. Due to the dollar amount that I sold over time, Paypal automatically "upgraded" my account to be a fee-based account. Yes, yes, yes, I know... I didn't read the fine print and I should have, but I learned from that and decided to not use Paypal anymore for sales.

 

I am a person who would break a rule or two for a greater good, so I do understand when someone wants to help a fellow homeschooler save a few dollars by circumventing the paypal fees. There could be a whole philosophical discussion on this topic..

 

I'm sorry that the seller had to be put through so much angst on this board over a sale, which probably cost the seller more than the buyer at this point. I might just forget about selling my used curriculum so I don't have to go through this kind of hassle.

[Renee in NC]

I think if people really have an issue with paypal fees then they need to spread the word and declare that on such and such day no one will be willing to use paypal or at least that they won't use features that charge a fee.

 

Or maybe an entire weekend.

 

Bottom line is that as long as the majority will pay then everyone will be expected to pay.

 

twisting the terms or whatever one calls it will just get the loopholes closed - most likely by paypal starting to charge the fee regardless of purchase type.

 

Just my .02

 

This is true - we make our displeasure known by our pocketbook. If we don't agree with a businesses practices, business model, or service, then we go elsewhere.

 

Throughout this conversation, there is one thing I just don't understand - why is it expected that PayPal should offer their services for free?

 

I pay the fees because I like the convenience. It is a service, though, and they are a business. Businesses exist to make money. Why is anyone surprised when they do things in such way as to make a profit?

[Tree House Academy]

Throughout this conversation, there is one thing I just don't understand - why is it expected that PayPal should offer their services for free?

 

I pay the fees because I like the convenience. It is a service, though, and they are a business. Businesses exist to make money. Why is anyone surprised when they do things in such way as to make a profit?

 

You make a good point and I would love to clarify my postion here since it has been twisted so horribly through the thread.

 

I have a premier account that I got 7-8 years ago when I used to sell a bit on e-bay. Choosing a premier account, I agreed to pay fees, essentially so I could accept debit and credit cards and thus increase the number of people (on e-bay) who could purchase from me. I sold mostly baby clothes and such when my kids were little. Then, e-bay started having lots of rules and such that I didn't agree with, so I stopped selling on e-bay.

 

A few years later, I became a homeschool mom and then bought curriculum and sold it (here and on other sites). I still paid a fee with the premier account no matter what the buyer paid with. That was just par for the course and I accepted those fees because I agreed to them when I signed up. Never once did I attempt to curcumvent them.

 

Then, a few months back, I sold a book here. I went to my account to print the shipping label and realized that there were LOTS more fees taken out than usual. I came back here and there was a thread discussing the new fees. I sold that book, finished the transaction and decided not to sell with paypal anymore because I didn't agree with the new fees and I was literally losing money.

 

Twice since then, I purchased something from someone here. I have over 3,000 posts and have talked with and pm's with these people. I feel as if they are "friends" even if not in real life. We laughed and joked through the sale, so when I checked out, I chose personal. My reason for doing this is because I knew they were not a business and I felt we were more than just a business transaction. If I was "wrong" in doing that, so be it. Now, I no longer use paypal at all and have actually had no activity on my account (coming or going) for months. I intend to close the account at this point.

 

My only reason for first posting to this thread was to say that some people didn't see buying a book from an online friend to be anything but a personal transaction. I, for one, still feel this way. I think of it like a yard sale. However, I also respect paypal's new rules and will no longer use their service because I don't agree with those extra fees. If I had been using a FREE account, maybe it would have been different...but the fact that I have 3 different fees taken out with each transaction makes it a bit over the top when I am just selling a $5 book with $3 shipping. KWIM?

 

Anyway - hopefully that post will untwist my words a bit. I think this thread has been like that whisper game you play in gradeschool...by the time you get to the end, everything is all twisted up.

[Melissa in CA]

Throughout this conversation, there is one thing I just don't understand - why is it expected that PayPal should offer their services for free?

 

Probably because we little guys (read: non-businesses) got the service for free for years, and now, all of the sudden, they are treating us, too, as profit-making businesses making the big bank. Plus, you know how we American's are with hangin' on to our free-doms! ;):lol:

 

I'm OK with the Paypal fees now. At first I was ticked because Paypal did not inform me of the change. I found out on my own when I kept getting charged. :confused: But, it's no biggie to me now. I think the hoopla will die down after a while and we will all accept the change. :001_smile:

[sandellie4]

She came out defensively swinging because she was upset and hurt. Hello?? A loving Christian would have backed off and prayed for her...not continue the attack to make a point, regardless of the hurt being inflicted. I think the majority of you were not acting very Christlike. Period. There is a time to speak up, and a time to remain silent.

 

I'm just sayin'. :glare:

 

:iagree: Thank you for saying this!

 

Sandy

[Peek a Boo]

Really...so lying to save a few bucks is the same thing as disobeying civil laws in order to carry out the bigger purpose of obeying God's will? I'm sorry, but I cannot equate the two. We'll have to disagree about that. As for the direct issue of PayPal fees, if you've agreed to abide by the terms of service, but you then decide you think they're "unfair" and shouldn't apply to you, then you use the service anyway, I'm sorry, but that is stealing. How is it not?

 

.... In the same way that I will come away from this giving a lot of thought to the fact that you so clearly think I'm wrong, hopefully eventually Rebecca will let in the tiniest thought about the fact that so many disagree with her perspective, and that her personal views on this may be contrary to God's law. I'm not, at this time, regretful about standing for ethics, though as I said, I'll give it some thought.

 

I absolutely agree there's a difference between taking actions per salvation issues and per "love thy neighbor" issues. God apparently sees "love thy neighbor as thyself" as a pretty big one tho, and whether God considers that breach of PayPal policy a no-no even after considering the various philosophical grounds will just have ot be found out at the pearly gates.

 

But that's ok --it's not up to you to equate the two ;)

[Peek a Boo]

Throughout this conversation, there is one thing I just don't understand - why is it expected that PayPal should offer their services for free?

 

 

someone already answered this: because PayPal was set up to BE --and remain--a free service. Change of ownership pretty much ditched that idea.

[Peek a Boo]

If I saw someone steal a $2 item from a store, I'd absolutely call them on it, and I doubt that I'd be willing to consider it as a part of God's will that they should have the item, or even give it to someone else. Yes, it's black and white. We all sin, we all fall short, but the standard remains the same. The only time I'm openly disapproving is when someone *stridently defends* their entitlement to break God's law.

 

 

so.....do you really think that if we sat down and discussed alllll the illegal things that parents do everyday, that there would be NO area in which you would NOT call the police immediately, thereby opening that family to a CPS investigation? Have you followed those threads?

 

I don't consider it "God's will" that certain things happen, but I do recognize that God gave us the ability to choose and discern when certain things should and should not be done. There really is something to be said about the spirit of the law, and while the law/policy/consequence may absolutely be black and white, the ethics behind them may NOT be.

 

I would tread lightly in an arena such as this.

[Renee in NC]

someone already answered this: because PayPal was set up to BE --and remain--a free service. Change of ownership pretty much ditched that idea.

 

How in the world was it supposed to continue as a free service? What is the revenue stream for that? The fees they charge on business transactions are fine if the free services are a lower percentage of total usage, but when you have so many people using it for the "free" part, it soon overwhelms the business. Think about all the people who use PayPal and the transaction goes wrong - they expect PayPal to get their money back for them! The free service takes almost as much to run as the fee services.

 

I guarantee you that the original service was not set-up as a ministry for people to send money through. It was free for so long as a way to get more to use it, which allowed the original owners to sell it for BIG bucks!:D That is normal for internet businesses - the more customers, the more the company is worth, so they will do all kinds of things to entice you over to them as opposed to someone else.

 

But, it does give me another idea - why doesn't someone else set up a PayPal type service that is free for homeschooling curriculum swaps?

 

I just looked over the PayPal fee structure and can't see where there is an additional fee *on top of* the normal 2.9% + 0.30 on Premier accounts. I realize people with regular accounts are paying a new fee, but those with Premier accounts aren't, right? (I only bring this up because someone in this thread stated that they were paying TWO fees instead of the regular Premier fee.)

[swimmermom3]

How in the world was it supposed to continue as a free service? What is the revenue stream for that? The fees they charge on business transactions are fine if the free services are a lower percentage of total usage, but when you have so many people using it for the "free" part, it soon overwhelms the business. Think about all the people who use PayPal and the transaction goes wrong - they expect PayPal to get their money back for them! The free service takes almost as much to run as the fee services.

 

I guarantee you that the original service was not set-up as a ministry for people to send money through. It was free for so long as a way to get more to use it, which allowed the original owners to sell it for BIG bucks!:D That is normal for internet businesses - the more customers, the more the company is worth, so they will do all kinds of things to entice you over to them as opposed to someone else.

 

But, it does give me another idea - why doesn't someone else set up a PayPal type service that is free for homeschooling curriculum swaps?

 

I just looked over the PayPal fee structure and can't see where there is an additional fee *on top of* the normal 2.9% + 0.30 on Premier accounts. I realize people with regular accounts are paying a new fee, but those with Premier accounts aren't, right? (I only bring this up because someone in this thread stated that they were paying TWO fees instead of the regular Premier fee.)

 

Renee, does the second set of fees come into play when a buyer uses a credit card? I don't have a Premier account. I accepted a credit card payment after the new rules went into affect, thinking since I was paying the 2.9% +0.30, it wasn't an issue. It was. There was a second fee which I assumed was tied to the credit card. This is the only time as a seller that I have seen the second fee, but again, that's on a personal account.