Do you demand "instant obedience" from your jr. high/high school kids?

[LibraryLover]

If you look up Instant Obedience in the dictionary you'll find a photo of my kids.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:lol:

 

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[Melissa in FL]

I am also raising my children to be thoughtful, questioning, independent adults. However, I am not raising visiting children this way, because I am not raising them at all. Frankly, I don't have the energy or the inclination to explain every darn decision to every kid that walks in the door to play.

 

My kids know that they can respectfully ask about why we do things in a certain way, or have certain rules. That's a home team privilege, though; when you're a guest, it's not appropriate. You do not question the rules or decisions at someone else's house, kid or adult.

 

If you drove to a friend's house, and they asked you not to park in a certain area, would you turn around and ask why not? If they said it's because your truck was too heavy for the cement, would you argue that it was not that much heavier than their own truck, or that the cement was strong enough? Hopefully, you'd simply park your truck as asked.

 

This, to me, is not a "kid" issue but a "guest" issue. Don't be a pain in the butt to your hosts. If you aren't willing to follow other people's rules, don't visit other people.

 

Well, I can tell by your post that our families could never be friends. If I came to your house and tried to park where I had always parked and you told me not to, of course I would park somewhere else. But after parking I would ask why. Sorry if you think that's rude, I don't think it is. We learn by asking questions, especially with our friends.

 

I was at a birthday party last week where we got into a huge discussion on why we choose to either let our dds(8) have pretend make-up or not. The hostess was concerned when my girls came out to ask if they could put it on because the hostess knows we don't allow it in our house. (I said sure) It sparked a really good discussion on why we all have different rules on this (there were about 6 moms there all of us are good friends). I think we each came away with a little more knowledge.

 

I don't think it's rude for my son to ask why the kids can't ride bikes across the lawn when they have almost everyday for the last two years. When he did ask the neighbor this the dad said "cause I said so". My son accepted this and stayed in the driveway. The dad then turned to me and said they had just fertilized and no one could be on the grass for 24 hours. Would it really have been so terrible for that dad to tell my son that? Was my son really rude to have asked why the rule changed? I get that different families have different rules and expectations. That's fine, it's good for my kids to learn that too. But I don't think taking 2 seconds to answer a curious child is wrong, in fact I think it's rude not to. It doesn't mean that they aren't willing to follow the rules or are going to argue, it means they want to understand.

 

Heck, sometimes I ask my friends questions about their rules so I can learn if the reason behind it might be a reason to change a rule in our home!

 

When my kids go to someones home they do find out the rules and follow them without question. They understand rules are different in different places. But when those rules change they want to know why. I think sometimes parents do need to say "because that's just the way it is now". But I think the parent is over reacting by thinking that child is rude and questioning the parents authority by a question asked politely while the child is complying with the rule.

 

I guess I think of my self as a "guest" at a hotel, not at a friends home. But then again, we are very open with our friends. Our friends come and make themselves very at home here, they help themselves to drinks and snacks. I always want our friends to feel at home and to me that means I answer their kids polite questions to the best of my ability. I don't think any of my friends or the kids are "pains in the butts" for feeling at home in my house. But that's just me.

Melissa

[phathui5]

My question was, should I, too, be making my son obey without question? Is it wrong for me to allow him a voice in the rules we place over his life (My sister & brother-in-law would say a resounding "yes!"). Would it be better if I didn't allow him to question, but just to obey, or will that cause exasperation in a child.

 

No. I think that it's fine for children to ask us why something is the way it is or make their case for why we should change a rule, as long as they can accept that the final decision belongs to Mom/Dad.

[Cera]

Each family has the right to set rules for their own children to follow everywhere. And each family has the right to set rules for their own house.

 

I think that your son was very rude to question the rule at the other person's house. And to continue that questioning further was ridiculous--very disrespectful. The adults in another family are not required to explain their rules to a mouthy kid, and should not have their authority challenged like that. I don't require instant obedience from my DD all the time at age 13, but I do expect her to follow the rules of another house when she is there unless she is expected to do something wrong or not in accord with our standards, in which case she needs to very politely decline.

 

At our house she can ask why like your DS did, but once we have been through a couple of rounds I might say something short and sweet like 'asked and answered' or 'that is all I have to say about this' or even 'please do as I say.'

 

:iagree: I don't think it was THAT disrespectful though. Preteens are still trying to figure out the world and can't be expected to be perfect.

[Melissa in CA]

Most of the time, these kids just need to know that there are adults that really listen and take what they think seriously.

 

:iagree: Especially when they reach those pre-teen/teen years. I found this to be the case with my older boys as well. During those teen years they are growing and maturing, beignning to think logically. They may not always be right, and most often are not, but they want to know they have a voice, and that they are of value enough in the family to be taken seriously. Thank you for bringing this up Katia. I had forgotten that aspect of parenting.

 

OP: your ds sound delightful. You are NOT wrong to not require instant obedience and totally right to allow him to ask questions. However.....if it were my ds, I would also not allow him to play at this relative's house unless I was present. Ever.

 

Thank you. He truly is a great kid and I am very proud of him. He's a gentle tender-hearted guy and I hate his cousin's putting him down. My natural instinct is to protect him at all costs, but he will have to live in the real world someday without my protection, so I suppose dealing with his cousins helps toughen him up. ;) I DO limit the exposure though!

Edited August 19, 2009 by Melissa in CA

[Melissa in CA]

If you look up Instant Obedience in the dictionary you'll find a photo of my kids.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:lol:

 

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

 

:lol::lol:

[Corraleno]

The mother in the OP actually was very appropriate to start with. She just repeated the rule and left it at that. She probably felt her kid had fielded enough questions about it. I agree. But the mother wasn't upset that the kid asked a couple questions though it seems the other kid was bothered by it.

 

Actually, the family was upset at the OP's son for asking questions and explicitly reprimanded him for it (see below). I suspect that she blew up at her 14 year old not because he was being a snot, but because she was angry at him for daring to question her authority.

 

...and then when her dh came home my ds got reprimanded for questioning authority. Needless to say, he came home yesterday from their house quite ticked off that they zeroed in on him saying he doesn't respect authority when all he was doing was asking for a logical answer from her son...not her.

 

I still think the other mother handled it very badly -- why couldn't she just say "We changed the rule because someone got hurt last month, and I didn't want that to happen again" (or whatever the reason was)? It seems like disciplining her own son and the OP's son took more time and energy than simply answering the questions would have.

 

In my experience, when people react in a disproportionately angry/defensive manner to being questioned, it's usually because (1) they may have a hard time defending their choice/rule/decision, so they attack the questioner instead, or (2) it's just a power/dominance thing: "How DARE you question me, I'm the one in charge here!"

 

FWIW, I don't think these reactions are limited to overly-strict parents; I've experienced the same thing in the corporate world, university, social groups, public school, etc. (especially public school). In fact, I think if the OP had posted that a public school teacher, instead of a parent, had reprimanded her son for questioning a rule that seemed illogical to him, the response would have been very different.

 

Jackie

(who frequently answers questions from visiting kids about why we don't have soda or junk food in our house, why no one is allowed to ride the horses without supervision, why I don't allow jumping on the beds, etc....)

[Pamela H in Texas]

He's a kid, and he's learning. Had he been at anyone elses house besides his cousins, he would never have questioned a house rule. But since he has been there often, and this rule was never once in place beforehand, he was confused and asked why. I see nothing wrong with that in and of itself. I think it's a natural response to "we can't play with toys on the trampoline anymore." "You can't, how come?" Now, had that been the extent of it I would have found zero fault in my ds.

 

And we agree :) We also agree with where it became problematic, but even then, your family member was gracious enough to just repeat the rule.

 

My guess is that where your son got in trouble was because the 14yo took things too far.

 

I have made that mistake as a parent. Someone takes it one more step and that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Not only do I address the issue with the back-breaker, but am not more frustrated with the one that incited the back-breaker.

 

I've also made the mistake as a parent of telling my husband the story the way the OP reads, X happened, then Y, then Z. And though only Z needed addressing (though it's questionable if it does either if I've already dealt with it), Y is also addressed. So hubby deals with something that totally didn't need dealing with though his back up was nice with the Z issue.

 

Anyway, no one is asking that anyone be perfect. But it is reasonable to address poor choices. Sounds like you did so even though both the mother and father of the other children already had.

 

As for the original question...it is perfectly reasonable to encourage kids to think, even question, especially as teens. They have to find THEIR way in this world. And we want them to be able to consider things reasonably. I even think it is okay for you to change your mind if the child happens to be right!

 

The problem is that you used a scenario you now say is not representative of the way your son acts towards you or other people. If it were representative, then you would definitely need to find a different balance of teaching reasoning and teaching respect. But I'll take your word for it that it's not representative :)

[Pamela H in Texas]

Actually, the family was upset at the OP's son for asking questions and explicitly reprimanded him for it (see below). I suspect that she blew up at her 14 year old not because he was being a snot, but because she was angry at him for daring to question her authority.

 

It could have been either direction. Did mom blow up at the 14yo because she was frustrated with the other kid? Or was she later more frustrated with the other kid than originally because the 14yo was a snot?

 

I guess *I* looked at it the latter way because that is the way I can see it happening here (though again, I really can't see "going ballistic" as I generally don't yell or use punishment). The 14yo pushes once too far, I handle it but then I'm frustrated because he wouldn't have done it had the other kid not been doing it.

[MOM24WONDERS]

At our house, it's obedience now, explanations later. When we ask our children or young adults to do something, we expect them to do it immediately. If they need to ask questions, they can do so at a later time.

 

Now, there are those times that things need to be discussed and can't wait. But for the most part, most discussions can take place later.

 

I don't think you can label this black and white. It can't always be that they can't ever ask questions, but they need to know when that's appropriate and when it's not.

[Impish]

While I agree to a point that blind obedience isn't a trait I want in my kids, I completely disagree that every rule should be under review and explained to a child. A simple, 'because I said so' has its place.

 

Questioning authority can be a good and needed thing...but at the same time, I believe that kids also need to be taught the appropriateness of the questioning. A boss telling you to do something isn't going to stand for repeated questioning...especially in the typical 'first job' teens enter. The same thing goes too later in life with other bosses. Assuming that one has the right to question company policy just because they think its dumb and grill the boss won't get anywhere but fired. Working from within, bringing things up as appropriate to change company policy is vastly different from simply grilling a superior.

 

In another example, just because you think that the speed limit is stupid doesn't mean you argue it with the officer that pulls you over.

 

Frankly, if a child were playing here and repeatedly questioned one of my kids about a house rule, neither my kids nor myself would be in any big hurry to welcome the child back.

 

Sorry, but children are not my equals. I'm an adult, with all the rights and responsibilities that go with it. I have neither the time nor the patience to explain the thinking behind all the house rules to a guest child. Either obey them, or go home. Simple. Neighbourhood girls know that, and funny enough, have been clamouring to play with Diva all summer...apparently our house is the 'fun house'.:lol:

[Moni]

I think that your son was very rude to question the rule at the other person's house. And to continue that questioning further was ridiculous--very disrespectful. The adults in another family are not required to explain their rules to a mouthy kid'

 

I agree.

 

Some kids more than others and especially at certain stages tend to "think aloud" and do this mouthy thing.

It can help to teach the children to ask "May I inquire?" or your choice of words.

You can then explain whether this is a good time to talk, or no you may not inquire (in other words just deal with it ;) for a little while)

 

:seeya:

Edited August 20, 2009 by Moni

[Supertechmom]

My question was, should I, too, be making my son obey without question? Is it wrong for me to allow him a voice in the rules we place over his life (My sister & brother-in-law would say a resounding "yes!"). Would it be better if I didn't allow him to question, but just to obey, or will that cause exasperation in a child. I know it would me. Now, I can see that NOT allowing questions would make for more peaceful parenting, but I can't help but think that might not be healthy if taken to the extreme either.

 

 

 

 

I think the answer is in the middle. My 12 year old questions us on a lot of why's. Most of the time we give an answer and our reasoning. Because most of our reasoning has to do with issues he has never considered or even thought of and the discussion helps him to see the other parts that go into the making of a decision. And if we feel that through the course of the discussion, he has a better handling or is in a different place than we thought, we change our minds.

 

We truly don't have rules like you are talking about. I don't have set don't ever do this or don't do this or only this is done this way or only eat this or only do that or all that sort of stuff. I was raised that way and given the typical I said so answer. And life never made sense. Because each of my children are different and require different handling, we tend not to have sweeping rules that apply one size fits all. A lot of times what you do and how you act really depends on the situation. And blind obedience doesn't teach how to determine that. They do need to be able to question and figure out the whys behind the rules.

 

BUT - Sometimes there is no discussion allowed. There is no reason I am going to give. It is a simple "This is the way it is and no questions asked". Yep, you can lodged your dislike, your disgust, your wonderment, your curiosity but we're not having a discussion on it. Those times have been rare but there have been times.

 

I still wouldn't do this with other people's kids. I would give a short and acceptable answer of "Things changed and we decided to do it this way" but I'm not going to go into a discussion with a child guest on it. One post listed a dad saying I said so and then explaining to the parent. He should have just explained to the kid. The kid asked. But had the kid went into questions beyond that, he was in the right to refuse to take it further.

 

It's a little of both. Always questioning is just as extreme as never questioning and neither one is healthy.

[Melissa in CA]

I think the answer is in the middle. My 12 year old questions us on a lot of why's. Most of the time we give an answer and our reasoning. Because most of our reasoning has to do with issues he has never considered or even thought of and the discussion helps him to see the other parts that go into the making of a decision. And if we feel that through the course of the discussion, he has a better handling or is in a different place than we thought, we change our minds.

 

 

It's a little of both. Always questioning is just as extreme as never questioning and neither one is healthy.

 

:iagree: I like your reasoning Servin...very well-rounded. The bolded parts are my thinking to a 't'.

 

My son has more respect for us and the decisions we make for his life, when he understands the reasoning behind them. Wanting to know the why, is not his being disrespectful to our authority, but his needing to understand why we are placing this boundary/rule/etc. on his life. When I explain to him that, for example, I limit his game time because I love him and feel too much playing of video's is not building the type of character in his life that both we (his father and I) and he himself desire. He gets that. Respects that, and takes ownership of it. It's all good. I hope that makes sense. :confused: But if we just say, "No videos, you play too much. End of discussion." He'll automatically think we are punishing him for something and get defensive. It's human nature. Sinful, yes, but human nature all the same.

[Guest janainaz]

I've read through all the replies and I can't believe the conclusions some have come to based on what you originally said. There is a harshness in accusing someone's child of being rude, disprespectful, and snarky. Even when someone asks for input, the tone does not need to be so cold.

 

I am much like you in allowing my son to ask questions. In fact, I want him to. If I make a rule, I want him to understand clearly why I'm making it. I want him to grow up questioning EVERYTHING and not just follow blindly. To me, that is teaching and allowing your child to use their brain! My son is allowed to respectfully ask questions, offer thoughts and opinions (with me and my dh). In fact, this is one way that I get to know my son on the inside and to understand how he thinks. My world is not black and white - there is a lot of gray. I don't have to explain in order for my kids to listen or to do what I ask, they do listen very well. But, they are allowed to think through things and to think about the why's behind them.

 

I can clearly understand why your son asked his cousin about the rule - it sounds like he was asking about the concept BEHIND the rule. He was not in verbal combat with the parent, just asking the annoying cousin. From what you explained about their logic and your son's observation at the lack of it, in addition to their attitude towards him, I can understand your son's thought process. He's probably the kid that in 99% of other circumstances, would not have said a word. This was a different situation. I think my son would have responded much like yours - and that would have been out-of-the-norm.

 

It is a very different environment when you compare a child that is allowed to question, allowed to think, and given the freedom to express his thoughts with a child that is not. My dh and I question everything we hear, from what we are fed at church to what we are fed on TV. We are very verbal and talk about all of it - we pick everything apart searching for truth. There are many hidden agendas these days. So, this is the environment my kids are growing up in. I see it as my way of protecting them and also a way of helping them to find out who THEY are, so that they grow up to be confident in coming to their own conclusions based on looking at a situation from various angles and perspectives.

[Erica in PA]

Just from my own experience, I have to tell you it bugs me when kids are over at my house and question *my* kids about rules we have at our house. Even if they aren't questioning me directly, they are still indirectly questioning my authority and putting my kids in a tough spot.

 

Sometimes my kids have rules that they might not even think to question me about. They know to obey simply because they know that I love them dearly and want them to be safe and because they are expected to obey. They often don't even think to question the rules because they trust me and we've established a relationship that allows them to follow my rules out of trust. When other kids question my own kids about my rules I see it (at the least) annoying and rude and (at the worst) usurping my authority or at least encouraging my kids to question my authority.

 

:iagree: I don't appreciate having other kids question our house rules either, and I would be upset to know that my child did that in another person's home. Whether the questioning is directed to the child or the parent,the rule is still being questioned. I don't mind if my own child questions our own house rule,if it's done politely and with a respectful attitude, and not in front of guests.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Erica in PA

[Joanne]

While I agree to a point that blind obedience isn't a trait I want in my kids, I completely disagree that every rule should be under review and explained to a child. A simple, 'because I said so' has its place.

 

This explains "where" I am in this discussion. I've discovered that (especially with younger kids) offering reasons and explanations leads to thinking the boundary is not firm.

 

"Don't jump on the couch"

 

"Why?"

 

"Because you could get hurt"

 

"But I didn't. I won't."

 

"You could. You may hit your head."

 

"I won't hit my head. I'll put a pillow on the floor"

 

....... With younger kids, it's often "No jumping on the couch is the rule. Period."

 

With older kids, more words and explaination may be appropriate and even respectful on the part of the adult to the child. However, if I had a child prone to excessive questioning, I'd develop a code word that meant "Enough. Knock it off now".

 

In the case of my absence, I'd make sure I had a lot of coaching and "practice" with a kid prone to this.

 

For the most part, I do find it rude and disrespectful after a certain point and I admit I draw that line fairly tight.

 

I do not advocate blind submission to adults, btw. I don't expect FTO from my children of any age (I've written about that elsewhere). But I don't approach children as peers or power equals.

[Mom24bz1g]

If my nieces/nephews came over and the kids were going to play something they had played for a while, I would completely expect to explain to nephew/niece why the rule had changed.

 

Now, my sil.............it would annoy her if my kids did the same. :glare::lol:

 

Michele

[Aggie]

In our home my children can question me BUT they must ask me if they can. "May I appeal Mom?" or "Can I ask a question, Mom?" are acceptable. The majority of the time I am fully willing to dialogue about a decision and often they have a good reason to question. I want them to have that freedom, however, there are times that I say "no" and I mean drop it now.

 

However, if we are guests then their rules apply without question. At my house, my rules apply. Period, end of discussion. I think that's the issue in a nutshell.

 

Here, too. Our 'appeals' are for a change in a decision. When we feel our dc are mature enough to handle an appeal, we tell them how to proceed. And if I hear "May I appeal?" too many times, I'm going to stop listening. It becomes ineffective. They can ask any questions about our rules/policies/decisions anytime. :001_smile:

[tex-mex]

LOL... I don't think you will get instant obedience from any teen!

 

But your son did show his aunt (?) or elder some disrespect by needless questions. I wouldn't create a war over it. Just a guess... but is son very bright and inquisitive?

 

The traits you describe are normal... but son is going to be in for a rude awakening when his first job or team meeting occurs. He will be seen as opinionated, rude, know-it-all, and so on. (Which is not the case... but first appearances, you know?) So, my best advice is to break it gently to him that most folks dislike copious amounts of questions -- it is sometimes seen as "arguing" or being "disrespectful". If he truly has a legitimate disagreement, then it needs to be taken up at a later date (private moment) so that the elder/boss/teacher is not looked on by others as being sassed at by a youngin'. Learning to think before you speak is a huge lesson... ask me how I know this. LOL.

 

EDITED to add:

After reading more posts, it really appears that there is tension between the families? And it does sounds like the aunt was upset her son sassed her -- allegedly from earlier questions from your son? Kids do that. I can see how she would be irritated. Nothing wrong with how you raise your son. But sounds like the questioning does bug people? Sorry for any offense... none meant.

Edited August 20, 2009 by tex-mex

[Elizabeth Conley]

My ds loves his cousins, but finds this whole family illogical. Another example: They are not allowed to watch Vegi Tale movies because, well, vegetables do not talk. They then put my ds down when he mentions anything about vegi-tales insinuating that by him watching them he's not a very wise person...yet they watch and love the movie Cars! :confused: He wants to know what the difference is between talking cars and talking vegetables?

 

Excessively authoritarian groups become accustomed to cognitive dissonance. Rigid rules against "questioning authority" are a popular "thought stopping technique" used to shut down "reality testing".

 

Parents who were raised in this way or who belong to "high control groups" themselves tend to use this type of "discipline" on their kids. They do it because they truly believe it's the right way. Contemplating the possibility that there is a better way causes these people extreme distress. The "rightness" of this "discipline" is a bedrock value for them. Don't even try to rock their boat. They'll reject you before they'll reject this pattern of behavior.

 

Since I don't want to raise children who are vulnerable to high control groups in adulthood, I do not use these tactics against my children.

 

Naturally I expect the kids to respect my legitimate authority, but legitimate authority does not rely on mind control tactics. The kids know when I need cooperation now, or when discussion is acceptable. Knowledge of this distinction is an aspect of emotional intelligence that will serve them well throughout their lives.

 

For a human being to live as a drone is rather sad. Most people are capable of a richer life, so naturally most thinking adults nurture greater social sophistication in their children.

[Pamela H in Texas]

If my nieces/nephews came over and the kids were going to play something they had played for a while, I would completely expect to explain to nephew/niece why the rule had changed.

 

I think that is reasonable and any of us would do the same. I think some of our posts were WAY misread, probably because feelings were hurt as we said two of the children had behaved inappropriately. Well, they did and even the OP admits her son did.

 

Again, the issue is degree. Asking why wasn't a problem. Continuing to the point the kid had to go get backup from the parent was, imo. But the mother of that kid did well there, just repeating the rule, not being dragged into it. It should have stopped BEFORE the other kid got exasperated, but if nothing else, when the mother responded. What made the issue worse was the 14yo chiming in. The kids as a whole just took it too far. The OP's kid went too far and the 14yo added the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

There was NOTHING wrong with the original question. Had it been framed appropriately, there may not have even been anything wrong with an ongoing discussion. And mom definitely could have handled it better when the kids got irritating.

 

The issue in this thread was that the OP had a question. Most of us agree on the general answer (yes, kids need to think, problem solve, wonder, question). The problem was that the OP used THIS situation where the kids took things too far as the example. IF this was representative of what the OP was questioning, then yes, there is a problem. The OP has since said that isn't the case, that he usually doesn't act like this. I'm willing to believe that. Unfortunately, what she was asking got buried in the scenario she presented as an example even though it wasn't representative.

 

Sometimes that happens on a message board. And because there are so many of us and such, it doesn't get worked out in short order. Had any of us been just chatting with the OP at the park, she could have said something like, "oh, that wasn't a good example. He doesn't usually do THAT and yes; we disciplined him for THAT" and then used a better example. It wouldn't have taken 5 minutes. But the nature of a message board messes things up sometimes.

[Melissa in CA]

If my nieces/nephews came over and the kids were going to play something they had played for a while, I would completely expect to explain to nephew/niece why the rule had changed.

 

Now, my sil.............it would annoy her if my kids did the same. :glare::lol:

 

Michele

 

Yep! It's not like my ds is some "neighbor kid". This is close family! :blink:

[kmacnchs]

At our house, it's obedience now, explanations later. When we ask our children or young adults to do something, we expect them to do it immediately. If they need to ask questions, they can do so at a later time.

 

Now, there are those times that things need to be discussed and can't wait. But for the most part, most discussions can take place later.

 

I don't think you can label this black and white. It can't always be that they can't ever ask questions, but they need to know when that's appropriate and when it's not.

 

:iagree:'obey first, THEN ask questions' is our *basic* rule

[Melissa in CA]

The problem was that the OP used THIS situation where the kids took things too far as the example. IF this was representative of what the OP was questioning, then yes, there is a problem. The OP has since said that isn't the case, that he usually doesn't act like this. I'm willing to believe that. Unfortunately, what she was asking got buried in the scenario she presented as an example even though it wasn't representative.

 

Yes, I can see I used a poor example. :tongue_smilie: That was the current example though (happened two days ago) and is the situation that made me wonder if I, too, should be requiring a no questions philosophy in our home. If *I* also required that, perhaps my son would not have over-questioned his cousin in regards to the rule change. So, you see, it got me wondering if *I* was in the wrong with my parenting.

 

I, too, dislike children who question everything! I would NOT put up with that, and would not want to be around children like that. My son isn't like that. But perhaps he seems that way to his aunt and uncle. You see, their children are not allowed to question anything. They are required to just obey, anything less than that is blatant sin and needs to be dealt with immediately. They are very much into controlling every aspect of their children's lives....even their 24 yo unwed daughter. She, for example, is not allowed to move out of the house until married. No dating allowed, courting only with family, never alone, and they have to approve of said man first; things like that. I would NEVER try to rock their boat, because they would freak out. So we say nothing to them about how we think they over-control, and micro-manage their children...but they are SURE to let us know that we are not parenting properly, even though we have two grown sons who are moral well behaved Christian men. :confused:

 

So, yes, as someone mentioned, there is definite tension in the family. :D And after writing all that, I again realized that NO, I would NOT want to parent that way or raise children who are not allowed to think for themselves. :tongue_smilie:

[Elizabeth Conley]

Dear Melissa,

 

I would NEVER try to rock their boat, because they would freak out. So we say nothing to them about how we think they over-control, and micro-manage their children...but they are SURE to let us know that we are not parenting properly, even though we have two grown sons who are moral well behaved Christian men. :confused:

 

So, yes, as someone mentioned, there is definite tension in the family. :D And after writing all that, I again realized that NO, I would NOT want to parent that way or raise children who are not allowed to think for themselves. :tongue_smilie:

 

You're handling this just right! As much as it may sometimes near kill you to bite your tongue, it's the best thing to do. There's no profit to having them "freak out", as you put it. They will cut you out of their children's lives as a "bad influence" before they'll seriously consider letting their children think for themselves. Try to be there for the 24 year old niece. She may need you at some later crisis point in her life.

[hornblower]

It is a very different environment when you compare a child that is allowed to question, allowed to think, and given the freedom to express his thoughts with a child that is not. My dh and I question everything we hear, from what we are fed at church to what we are fed on TV. We are very verbal and talk about all of it - we pick everything apart searching for truth. There are many hidden agendas these days. So, this is the environment my kids are growing up in. I see it as my way of protecting them and also a way of helping them to find out who THEY are, so that they grow up to be confident in coming to their own conclusions based on looking at a situation from various angles and perspectives.

 

:iagree:

 

I don't really demand obedience from any age child, unless we're in a crisis mode.

 

To the OP, I didn't think your son was rude.

 

I thought your son was being logical. And for a boy his age, was acting completely appropriately.

 

The rudeness was the aunt's. The issue was that SHE didn't want to talk about it. In that case the appropriate response would have been something like "I can see that this isn't making sense to you and you would like me to explain it but right now I don't have the time to do this. So you'll just need to follow this rule now. I may have time to talk about this another time." The End. (this is what I do when I get caught in a rule which makes no sense or is inconsistent & I need to buy some time to think my way out of it LOL)

 

NOW, if a child persists after this, it might be being rude. Or it might not.

What if the aunt was saying - yes, get in the back of the pick up truck and just sit down on those feed sacks. We're just going down a few miles to the store & you'll be safe in there.

 

Would you want the child to question that ?

 

If this were my son, I would support him in continuing to question, but also begin to teach him some more sophisticated discernment over issues which there's no point in discussing, or signs that someone is feeling threatened that they will just dig in their heels or wig out. If it's not a huge issue, he has to learn to let things go, or just not raise them at all, even if they seem 'illogical'. He could just remember them & tell them to you later.

Edited August 20, 2009 by hornblower

[Pamela H in Texas]

You see, their children are not allowed to question anything. They are required to just obey, anything less than that is blatant sin and needs to be dealt with immediately. They are very much into controlling every aspect of their children's lives....even their 24 yo unwed daughter. She, for example, is not allowed to move out of the house until married. No dating allowed, courting only with family, never alone, and they have to approve of said man first; things like that. I would NEVER try to rock their boat, because they would freak out. So we say nothing to them about how we think they over-control, and micro-manage their children...but they are SURE to let us know that we are not parenting properly, even though we have two grown sons who are moral well behaved Christian men.

 

Yeah, I can't imagine squashing preteen and teen children to that degree. I mean, these kids have to go out in the real world one day. They need to be able to thinking, problem solve, figure, discuss things with other people. Also, my experience is that:

 

1) these homes are stressful

2) very rarely are these homes any more disciplined

3) the kids, sometime, break free and go "wild" to some degree or another, oftentimes dangerously so.

4) it ruins family relationships.

 

I think the 14yo was out of line. I definitely would have handled that. However, living as you describe is not healthy for kids.

 

We have clear boundaries but have a lot of freedom within those boundaries. Our goal is for our children to learn the skills and tools (AND practice those!) in order to be happy and healthy contributing members of family, community, congregation. A few times, this has meant doing a little additional training so a child didn't "practice" inappropriately, but our kids are very capable as teens because they've had these opportunities all along.

 

As for the 24yo. Well, obviously the young lady agrees with these "rules" as she is following them. As an adult, it isn't that she COULDN"T leave and do as she pleased. I hope my daughter lives here while still single. I hope she'll choose courtship over "private" dating. I hope she'll choose dates "wisely" which may or may not include input from certain adults (male's parents, us, elders, etc). But fact is that she'll be an adult. I can limit what will be acceptable in MY house, but I can't keep her from choosing to do otherwise and/or moving out!

 

Sometimes this can look differently from the outside. I mean, you could say we X Y Z, but it doesn't seem like a bunch of rules to us. It's a choice to follow our beliefs. And if dd remains here til 24 and follows along the lines of our beliefs, it will be because they are her beliefs also.