elw_miller Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 "Each year, approximately 14,000 freshmen and seniors at 50 schools nationwide were given a 60-question, multiple-choice exam on basic knowledge of America’s heritage. Both years, the students failed. The average freshman scored 51.7% the first year and 51.4% the next. The average senior scored 53.2%, then 54.2%. After all the time, effort, and money spent on college, students emerge no better off in understanding the fundamental features of American self-government." http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/2008/summary_summary.html This looks like a fascinating study. How well would homeschoolers score on this test, I wonder? I am biased, of course, but I wonder how much better. Some of my musings on this topic: Is this the consequence of multiple choice history tests used in most schools versus the use of essay or oral exams? I think few history classes help students understand the inter-relatedness of historical events, or, more importantly the relevance to contemporary politics (and therefore their lives). For instance, I didn't "get" that the Versailles Treaty was greatly responsible for the later problems in Germany (Hitler's rise) until I was lucky enough to get a fantastic history professor in college. Thoughts on this study and these issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Fairy Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I'd love to see the test. There is a test on the website that you linked, but it was only 30 questions long and some of the questions were oddly phrased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Well, at least they are socialized! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elw_miller Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 I agree, some of the questions were oddly phrased. I wondered, too, at the reasoning behind some of them. For instance, there was one about what a government ought to do in response to a recession--I answered "decrease taxes and decrease spending". The right (?) answer was "decrease taxes and increase spending". Intuitively, that seems wrong to me, but then, I have very little knowledge of sound macro economics. I wonder, though, if that particular question is up for debate amongst economic experts. Or, maybe I'm just thinking of the huge deficits the government is currently running. I'd like to see the full test, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I am completely not surprised. I myself am an example of our public schooling. I took AP US History my junior year of high school. I made a 5 on the exam, which would have let me out of basic American history in any college I went to (pretty much). Yet we didn't study anything truly in-depth past Reconstruction after the Civil War. I felt like bits of the Great Depression were tossed at us like food thrown at a speeding car. WWII? Not a clue. Everything I know is either from cultural references and my subsequent research or my own self-education. I have an embarrassingly bad knowledge of any modern history. But boy, oh boy did I study everything in excruciating, boring detail of US history through the Civil War. By my count, I covered that time period about 4 separate times from 7th-11th grades. :001_huh: And forget about world history... or ancient history... It's pretty sad. Everything I know about ancient history I've learned starting with SWB's HOAW book and SOTW. So... not at all surprised when I was a supposedly successful product of our educational system. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I'm a bit suss about those studies. Last time I took one, I beat most of what they claimed your low level bureaurocrats scored, and that's ridiculous. I'm an Australian who's never studied the US. Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtroad Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 My neice is in the 9th grade at a "good" public school.... ask her who was a President named George and she can only name George W. Bush b/c he was in office during her life. NO ONE ELSE. She doesnt' know much about the Civil War or WWI/WWII. It is really sad. Do not even begin to talk about civics or our state issues. But she can sure play ball & keep that IPod stocked! This test is not suprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I got 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlemaiden Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 That was fun. I took it with my oldest son. I made the final answers though, so it was really my test. I scored 85% and of the five I missed, my son had chosen the correct answer for three and I disagreed! :D And DawnM, you crack me up! Socialized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlemaiden Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I got 100%. Well done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Awesome! I did miss a couple. In my defense....I did not grow up in the USA. ;) Dawn I got 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loupelou Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Some of the questions were worded oddly. I missed 2, got a 94%. But it said their monthly average for June was 74.8%. Interesting that the test scores for Freshman and Seniors were not very different. Kind of sad actually.:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy in MD Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Sometimes I wonder about the questions. Is it really important to know that it's the FIRST amendment that bans an official religion? I don't think so, it's just important to know that the Constitution bans an official religion. It is nice to know that it was an amendment, but I don't think even that's necessary. Ad I'm puzzled by their statements that civic conversations and activities give a greater knowlege of gov't and current affairs, yet elected officials, who are discussing this stuff regularly do worse than those who watch TV news?!?!? There's a problem here that needs a lot more research. I'd like to know, are the tests the sort that are designed to trip people up? Are the questions clear or confusing? Are they overly detailed and nit picky for someone who hasn't taken a course in the subject for several years? Are the test takers serious about answering the tests? Who did they test, was it truly a representative sample? (Side note, a top notch professional pushed for passing a required test as a prerequisite to becoming registered in his field. He couldn't pass the test, yet he was tops in his field. ) I don't see how, given the quality of many of the documentaries and news programs I've watched, how some one who is PAYING ATTENTION to the programs, couldn't be learning history or current events. If they're veging out or multi-tasking, I can see how they wouldn't. Or if they're watching the 5 second sound bite programs, but there's a lot of good in-depth stuff out there. I may have too much faith in my fellow man, but I just can't see how that many could be that oblivious. Unless they're like my ds, can know the stuff solid and blow the test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 it's a test of civics and some history rather than of civic engagement. And you have to be a good test taker to pass, not necessarily agree with their views but sort of figure out what a high school civics teacher would say about some of the questions. Thinking on a deeper level would really trip you up. (That's why I did so well, LOL!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I got a 64% :mellow: I don't remember much about learning this in school, but I also found it horribly boring and didn't pay much attention. I used to learn just enough to pass the test and then let it fly out of my head. If I had gone to high school in my 30's (after maturing a bit) I would have done great! I was too much of a fluff-head in school. Too lazy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarlaS Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I got a 64% :mellow: I don't remember much about learning this in school, but I also found it horribly boring and didn't pay much attention. I used to learn just enough to pass the test and then let it fly out of my head. If I had gone to high school in my 30's (after maturing a bit) I would have done great! I was too much of a fluff-head in school. Too lazy! That's pretty close to what I got (22/33). What I did know I didn't learn in school (I bet I was even lazier than you :D) but picked up here and there over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Thank you, Darla! It's humbling that the non-Americans all scored better than we did. And like that other poster said, I don't think we EVER learned ancient hx. Maybe a little bit of Egyptian stuff. And we certainly never learned anything past WWI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elw_miller Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 Excellent questions and observations! Too bad we can't all actually sit down with a cup of coffee together over a good conversation! :) Sometimes I wonder about the questions. Is it really important to know that it's the FIRST amendment that bans an official religion? I don't think so, it's just important to know that the Constitution bans an official religion. It is nice to know that it was an amendment, but I don't think even that's necessary. On the one hand, you're right, just knowing what is in / is not in the Constitution and Bill of Rights is important, it'll get you by--especially considering so many of us (myself most definitely included) do not know enough of what's actually in those documents. On the other hand, to grapple and converse the most effectively with issues of history, government, and social issues, I think one should know the details. You'll be better able to defend or advance your perspective or debate against a counter-perspective if you know them. This is one area that I'm starting to recognize as something I need to know much better--mainly so I can more effectively debate my friends across the political divide. ;) Ad I'm puzzled by their statements that civic conversations and activities give a greater knowlege of gov't and current affairs, yet elected officials, who are discussing this stuff regularly do worse than those who watch TV news?!?!? There's a problem here that needs a lot more research. Very interesting ironic observation. I wonder if the problem stems from some of these elected officials' quest for power versus them actually having an interest in history and civics and wanting to serve the country with wisdom gained from an understanding of history. You're right--that issue does need more research. I'd like to know, are the tests the sort that are designed to trip people up? Are the questions clear or confusing? Are they overly detailed and nit picky for someone who hasn't taken a course in the subject for several years? Are the test takers serious about answering the tests? Who did they test, was it truly a representative sample? I think those are great questions. Some of the questions were worded poorly. However, I haven't had a history class in nearly ten years and didn't think the questions were too nit picky. I don't see how, given the quality of many of the documentaries and news programs I've watched, how some one who is PAYING ATTENTION to the programs, couldn't be learning history or current events. If they're veging out or multi-tasking, I can see how they wouldn't. Or if they're watching the 5 second sound bite programs, but there's a lot of good in-depth stuff out there. I may have too much faith in my fellow man, but I just can't see how that many could be that oblivious. Unless they're like my ds, can know the stuff solid and blow the test. Remember, we're homeschoolers, we're geeks. ;) I think, sadly, very few people actually take advantage of the wonderful documentaries and programs. The exit polls at the election were scary--people didn't know who President Obama's VP was, who Nancy Pelosi was, etc. I think one of the late night comedians used to do a "man on the street" during which passers-by were asked basic questions about history, current events, etc. and a horrifying number of people couldn't answer those basic questions. A good friend of mine (a history buff and former history teacher) lamented that history/civics was not taught better in schools--and he is one who lives and breathes the subject! Sigh. I remember there being an attitude amongst my peers that history was not only boring, but not important. What's wrong (besides the use of textbooks) with the way history is taught? Is it the preparation of the history teachers--are they even lacking an understanding of the flow of history? Should history be taught using a Socratic method? What could homeschoolers do to help schools teach history better? On a related note, my husband and I have frequently lamented the lack of real books being used in history courses--where was The Killer Angels or The Battle Cry of Freedom or At Dawn We Slept or any of the other award-winning history books?! Learning history would've been far more englightening had we gotten to use "living books". What other books out there could be added to this list of books? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwka Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I've got 70% (23 out of 33), don't know much about all that fiscal and tax stuff. I live in the USA for 5 years. This table is interesting, it compares citizen's scores to elected politicians. Guess who is better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I got 75% - not bad for a Brit. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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