OK - I'm intrigued by the idea of no one being "up" until 8am...

[Rhondabee]

Hi Rhonda,

I was just looking at your kids' ages, and it seems like we've led almost parallel lives. I got married in '91, just like you! My eldest will be 13 in July, my second is 11 1/2, and my little late-in-life surprise DD will be 4 in July.

 

 

 

Oh, wow! Too funny - don't know how to "type" the Twilight Zone music...but it would fit - LOL!

 

Thanks for posting! Your days sound similar to ours. The only heavy sleeper I have is my older ds - and he can sleep through 5 minutes of his alarm going off with the alarm clock right beside his head! I try to see this as a good thing. It usually means he was up late, late, late reading - and just two years ago he *hated* reading.

[Rhondabee]

Ultimately, you have to do what is best for you and your kids. If you need permission from someone to make that happen, I will offer mine. :D

 

 

 

Thanks! I'll take it. ;)

[Colleen in NS]

The *idea* of me saying, "Stay in your room until 8, or else!" is *so* foreign to me. My kids would definitely think someone had stolen their mother - LOL! But, when I think of it, I feel a strange sense of .... joy!?

 

So, please!, talk to me more about this whole mind-set. I'm guessing it must tie into setting aside a certain number of minutes per subject? I think I need a better picture or an outline of what an entire day with that mindset would look like. Something I can read to my DH and my DS's and say, "Can we make this a reality in our home?"

 

 

I think if I could paint a picture of a different paradigm - a lifestyle. IDK - maybe it's not really a "homeschooling" paradigm. There are plenty of people who choose public school who continue that process of learning into their entire day. I feel like we aren't really making that choice (and, I think much of that decision has been my dh's). I would like to *try* to make that choice, I just don't know how to change from what we've always known. I can't make everyone in my family change - I've tried and failed too many times to naively believe that *I* can do that. I have to motivate them to change for themselves, you know?

 

And, after some lunch, I realized that I have to live with *my* husband, *my* kids, *my* neighbors and church friends (in the redneck haven of Acworth, Ga. no less - LOL!) and still have time for me for work on me.

 

I know my DH doesn't need anything else on his plate right now - least of all me nagging about something that isn't broken

 

Hi Rhonda,

 

If you're anything like me, I bet the thoughts that led to your posting this thread are also mixed in with your thoughts about how to schedule writing, right? :D I'll go post over there when I'm done here.

 

Would your kids like it if you told them to stay in their rooms til 8 a.m. (or whatever time you deem after the 7 a.m. you mentioned when they are sleepily trying to wake up on the couch)? Would they welcome the chance to get some more sleep in the morning? Might they possibly work more efficiently in less time if they stayed in bed later?

 

I do think it's a lifestyle/mindset thing. We've mostly had a "get up" time at 7:30 a.m. since our kids were about a year old (before that it was juggling the baby schedule, but still trying to have a regular "get up" time). And when they started waking up earlier, we told them to stay in bed til 7:30 a.m. (and gave them a clock in their rooms and showed them what 7:30 looked like). 7:30 worked for US because of dh's schedule. I felt guilty for a long time because I didn't get up earlier like a lot of my friends did, but their husband's had to get up earlier to go to work. (I also had the "perfect Christian woman" thing going on in my mind - thinking I had to get up before everyone else and accomplish certain tasks)

 

Anyway, when ds was a baby/toddler/preschooler/Kindergartner, we just had a family schedule that we used - no differentiating between "school" and "break." It was the same all year from year to year, and we lived life and played and learned to read and did play-dough - I also couldn't understand the "going to preschool" and "signing up for activities" at ages 3 and 4 that so many people around me were doing - we were already doing all that as part of life.

 

It was after ds's first grade year that I started differentiating between school schedule and break schedule. Mostly because this business of teaching a child beyond preschool-type activities was so foreign to me, and I clung to the WTM to guide me, and I am very thankful for the sample schedules that are in there because they are what got me started on this classical style journey.

 

This past year, especially, has gotten harder and harder for me because I have felt like academics were swallowing up more and more of our time, cuz I just had to cram it all into 36 weeks, and thinking about going to 38 or 42 weeks just made me miserable because I was starting more and more to need those "break" weeks to recover from the stress I've been feeling. I did manage to keep bedtimes/getting up times pretty much the same, and I did keep the two hour quiet time, but even that was being taken over by academics. And I'd read about people doing school year round, but couldn't figure out if they meant that they never had "break" weeks and I couldn't figure out how to spread our academics out over a year without having a break to look forward to.

 

When I heard SWB talking at the conference about this, something just clicked in my brain. I think it's also because I got some practical help there about teaching certain things that I'd been stressing about for over a year, but her description of melding academics with family life just clicked with me. I knew I wanted to go back to that lifestyle we had a few years ago, but this time I knew how to teach/organize the academics I knew I wanted my kids to have. That was my biggest problem - not knowing how to teach them, so then not being able to meld everything together. I'm still working my way through all this thinking and I'm sure I'll come across more snags (see my frustration with Latin post), but I know I want our academics to be more seamless with regular family life. So schedules here are in the negotiation process. :D What I'm thinking of doing:

 

7 me get up to read if I want to

 

7:30 - 9:30 kids and dh up, breakfast, kids do stuff with Dad like piano, household chores, bake bread, vacuum van, yardwork, play, fix things, bike ride - while I put laundry in, eat breakfast, go for badly needed walk (I REALLY need to work in exercise), hang laundry, shower

 

9:30 - 12:30 me do school with kids while dh exercises, showers, does his work prep stuff (he works afternoons and evenings)

 

12:30 - 1 lunch with all

 

1-3 quiet time for all - read, play, sleep - me bill paying, planning, studying ahead, phone calls, library renewals, messaging with boardies, etc.

 

3-5 dh leaves for his work day, we do schoolwork and hopefully take kids outside for an hour of exercise for them...walk, bike, park

 

5-6 me cook while kids play/cleanup/fold laundry

 

6-7 eat, cleanup, read aloud

 

7-8 kids showers and play, (me possibly tutoring for pay)

 

8-9 kids in rooms reading, me off duty except for emergencies (possibly tutoring for pay) :D

 

9-11 me and dh relaxing

 

Like I said, this is in negotiation right now - but it's a change from before where I'd try really hard to cram academics in from 8 to 11:30 a.m. so the kids could have an hour with Dad before lunch and him leaving, then have ds doing more work for another hour from 1-2, and more and more there was yet more work to do at 3 p.m. for another hour. Oh, and I was also trying to get exercise in the afternoons with the kids, but they hated walking at the pace I wanted to walk, hated going for a pointless walk ("it's so boring!!!!") - so I gave up on exercise, but I really need it. So I have to schedule it elsewhere when dh is home, and I can't do it earlier than 7:30 consistently because in winter it is too dark still up north. This new schedule has less "academic" hours, but I'm hoping that if it seems more sensibly paced for all of us, then I will be able to figure out how to spread academics out over the year without feeling as though I need "break" weeks (well, except for things like Christmas or vacations or people visiting and stuff).

 

For example: I'm cutting math to 4x/week - with R&S it'll take longer in the year, but who cares anymore, LOL. Writing - working on melding even more. Latin - trying to figure out if I *really* need to do SO MUCH drill work. vocab - thinking about dropping the flashcards and just going through the VfCR book orally *with* ds just for fun. It'll be faster and I'm a little more convinced about the vocab-from-reading argument, so I'll think of the book as supplement. Grammar - R&S thinking about skimming or eliminating writing lessons, spreading grammar lessons out over the year. History/science/lit./art apprec./music apprec. - lots and lots of reading, using some of it to write from. Reading during quiet time and evening reading time. And some of the rest that I've been trying to do, like art projects, Spanish, typing (temporary), science experiments.....I might be able to rotate those in the afternoons each week, so maybe something won't get done as often, but spread out over a year means at least SOME progress and if I'm not cramming, it might actually become fun for us again.

 

I feel now like I'm pointlessly rambling, so I'm going to submit reply.:D

 

Wait, I just thought of one more thing. We are not an activity oriented family, so this affects how we approach things, too. We do things on weekends like visiting, occasional museums and other outings, but mostly we just hang around, do grocery shopping, necessary house/vehicle repairs, cooking ahead, organizing, etc.. But all that is within our control whereas regularly scheduled repetitive activities are not.

[orangearrow]

We start school around 9 am (the girls have already done their "basics" - math, grammar, general science). The kids have lunch around 11 and "free time" until 1-ish. We finish school usually around 4-4:30 - sometimes later, depending on how our dayhas gone. When we have field trips or co-ops or errands to run, we go over the work before we leave, and they bring it with them to work on in the car.

 

I also have a "mom shift"! I thought I was the only one (just read what SWB said, I think it was her?). I tell the kids my mom shift is over at 8pm. They play together in one of their 3 bedrooms, play their Nintendos for a little while (they know their time limits), sometimes watch a movie in our bedroom (where the only other tv is). This gives dh and I couple hours of mostly-uninterrupted time together. After dh heads to bed (usually around 10) I have the rest of the night to myself. Alone!! It's absolutely necessary to my sanity. ;) lol

 

My kids aren't allowed out of their bedrooms until after 7. They get their own breakfast. The girls start their own school lessons and ds plays and/or bugs his sisters. ;) I usually drag myself out of bed around 8 (I loathe mornings) and am ready to talk by 8:30, lol. It's awesome having older kids now. :)

[skaterbabs]

This would never work in my house.

 

I wish it would... but it won't. Ever.

 

And I have to admit that I am secretly hoping that it doesn't work for lots of other people, either, because it would mean that those moms actually have time to themselves. :glare:

 

Not that I would be jealous or envious or anything... ;)

 

Cat

 

 

Honestly, it wouldn't work for us either. We school at the IL's house (they have more room) and in order to not take over their household, we really need to limit how long we're there. Ten AM to Five PM is more than long enough to spend at someone else's house, KWIM?

[HiddenJewel]

Not getting up until 8 would be very foreign here and does not work. Things go much smoother and faster when there is a set time to get up. My girls set their own alarm and are upstairs ready for breakfast at 7:30. Then it is chores and school. We also go to be a lot earlier than some families as dh has to be out the door for work at 5:45am.

 

If you let a child sleep as long as he wants, how is he supposed to learn discipline for when he becomes an adult? Not many jobs let you wander in whenever you happened to get up that day. Or if the job allows it, it is a drain on the rest of the employees who actually have a work ethic.

[fivetails]

The 'stay in your room until 8am' reminds me of when my siblings and I were kids - that was our rule on the weekends and I still remember how all-important that time on the clock was because it meant we could finally go downstairs and get some cereal and watch cartoons ~ remember when cartoons were only on Saturday mornings? :D

 

In our house now, my "me time" is early morning.. dh is up by 4ish because he leaves for work on the bus at 5... I get up with him so I can make his lunch, coffee, etc, and then after he leaves is my main time to do whatever it is that I want to do in 'quiet' -- emails, read, get stuff ready, start laundry, run the dishwasher, shower, etc. Whatever, it's my time..heh, sometimes, it means veg on the couch with a MacGyver dvd on to watch. Shhhh. :tongue_smilie:

 

Kids are up usually around 9am at the moment... ds10 is awake before then and likes to listen to his music in his room (music, stories on cd, etc) for a while ..dd12 is at that age where she sure does love her sleep and yep, sometimes I let her sleep longer, depends. Although, the other day she heard us getting up and decided that she wanted to come downstairs at 4:30am and have coffee with us. Yes, she actually wanted to have. a. coffee. Well, until she tasted it. :lol:

 

Half hour later, she decided this early morning stuff was for the birds and went back to bed. ;)

 

I think every family has to find what works for them... I know another hs family who usually stay up until 1am or thereabouts and get up around 11am... that would never work for us, but it works for them. Every family is different. :)

[1bassoon]

I guess my question would be...why 2 hours of rest time after lunch? I'm looking at the ages of your kids, and with the exception of the 4 yr old, I don't see the need for a mid-day seista?

 

 

This has been answered for me, I think, in later parts of the thread . . . .

 

But, as I was reading some "take-aways" from SWB's 10th anniversary conference, it hit me. Like a ton of bricks.

 

I am. always. on. duty.

 

My dh works out-of-state, and is only home on weekends. I've not adapted well to this. I hit the ground running, usually late, after having been up waaaaay too late online :glare:, and don't stop. Ever. I'm constantly accessible to the kids, and as a result, it's May - my temper flares, my spirits are sagging, and I'm just bone. tired.

 

The idea of "Mom's off duty" hours is so, so appealing. More than appealing - for me, I think it's going to be necessary if we are to survive this season of our lives. So, no, we don't need a 2-hr. nap - and realistically, in my house, it will probably be 1-hr. - but we all need an hour away from Other People, kwim?

 

I've had "alone time" in the middle of the day for two days, now.

 

I can't believe how much more patience I have around dinner.

[teamturner]

I'm trying to think about next year's schedule and how I'm going to fit it all in. We have activities every afternoon from 1:30-2:30 or 1-2 and then co-op on Friday afternoons. I have 3 dc to teach and a 3 yo to keep occupied. This year we started (or tried to) at 8:45 and we still almost never finished before lunch and had to finish up in the late afternoon (history). It makes for a very long day and the neighborhood kids are always knocking on the door before we are done. Next year we will be adding writing, latin will take more time, etc. I just don't know anyother way but to start even earlier.

 

In addition, my dh really wants the kids to have an official start time so they will develop good habits. He doesn't agree that having a loose schedule is good for teaching them self-discipline. I've noticed that it's much harder to get going in the morning and I'm met with more resistance when we don't have an official start time. Anyone relate to that or is it just me?? I'm mostly thinking out loud and wondering if anyone else struggles with these kinds of issues.

[Tree House Academy]

OK, here's the "where's this coming from". In SWBs talks, one of the things she talks about is mom's "off duty hours" Her mom's off-duty was after 8 pm - 8 am (except for big emergencies, of course) and 2 hours in the afternoon for down time. This down time is for everyone in the house ... enforced separation (no face time) to rest, reflect, do something quiet. it isn't necessarily nap time, although converting morning naps into this time is the easy way to establish it.

 

I guess we kind of already do this. *My Time* is from when the boys go to bed (8:30-9:30 generally - once they are in their rooms reading or whatever, it doesn't count...just when they go to bed for the night) until they get up the next morning. However, I am NOT a morning person, so I choose to take my time until around 1AM. Then I go to bed and sleep until about 8:30 or 9...which is when they are getting up too (because they need more sleep than I do). It works lovely. Now I need to do the 2 hour rest time. As a matter of fact, I am going to start that tomorrow. We did it when they were younger and needed naps...but ahhhh...the thought of 2 hours of quiet after lunch. Oh my!

[sunflowerlady]

This is an interesting thread. I would be very interested in getting a recorded copy or printout of SWB's talk where she mentioned this.:001_smile: It sounds like just my kind of thing.

 

I wake up between 7 and 8. Sometimes dd is awake and she reads in her room for a while. Sometimes she wakes up right after me and gets up. For a few days lately, she has slept in a bit or has read in her room for thirty minutes or more and I have really enjoyed the quiet time to myself.:D

 

Just to have a little time to have some coffee and read or watch a little TV all alone is so nice.

 

After breakfast we do chores and then start school about 10. We are done before 12:30. Although dd is 10 yo, our school days are shorter than many of yours because I school in a more informal , relaxed manner. Also, dd is an only child, so I am not schooling anyone else and distractions are more limited. We also school year round in a relaxed way, so we end up covering plenty of material.

 

It is true that each family must do what works for them. :)

 

Now I am off to plan my "off duty" hours. I like that idea!

[tricia]

I get up mostly to a quiet home. Seriously, my children sleep until 9 or 10 easy. But I mostly get them up by 9. I just wake when I wake but that's usually between 6:30-8. Depending on the baby.:)

[Peela]

I think it depends a lot on the pattern of the parent. I am an early riser and energetically done by the afternoon. If I allowed my kids to follow their own inner clock, one wouldnt be up till 11am, and the other would be maybe 8. But it just wouldnt work for me, and I am the key. Their rising time is 7.

 

I like SWB's thoughts on scheduling and afternoon rest times etc, but my kids have afternoon activities, friends on the street after school, one has a job, etc, and so it just works for us to keep to "school hours" to a fair extent. *I* have an afternoon rest time of 1-2 hours, but my kids keep doing their work so that by 3pm they are free to do other things. They dont disturb my rest time, so it works for us all. No way could we get back to work after a rest time for us all- with neighbourhood kids knocking on the door etc. We don't do school all year for the same reason- too much else is happening during the holidays. its a great concept, and in different circumstances- like if we lived in the country- we might do it- but it just wouldnt work here.

[nukeswife]

The "off duty" thing would never work for me either. With dh away on deployments and stuff I'm ALWAYS on duty and I'm ok with that. My kids will be grown soon enough, so I'll take what I can get now.

 

We are not early rising kind of people here. I have my "quiet, alone" time from about 10pm -2am. My kids do go in their rooms at about 8 or 8:30 and the satelite boxes hooked up to the older kids tv's is set to go off at 10pm Sun-Thurs and 11pm Fri-Sat. My youngest has his TV on all night, yep that's right all night. He needs the background noise or he just doesn't sleep. My older 2 usually listen to audio books after the tv's go off. I'm usually up around 8:30 or 9 and they usually come rolling down about 9:30 (my oldest son really needs his sleep so sometimes he's not up until 11) sometimes they are up before that but I never wake them. I also don't make appointments that would require me to wake them because to wake my kids is almost the equivilent of sending yourself to into the Iron Maiden. We usually start school around 10:30 which is fine, we usually wrap things up about 3, and have lunch somewhere around 12- 12:30. Sometimes my kids ask for "lesson lunch" which means we have a picnic in the living room (or outside if it's nice) and they eat while I read stuff for history, science, or a just for fun read aloud.

 

I think I said all this just to say, I didn't start hsing to avoid getting up early (although it is a wonderful perk) but it is a reason we enjoy it so much. You have to do what works for you. This is the flow that works for our family and you have to find the one that works for yours. My dh usually has to wake around 5 to get to the ship a do a few things before the day starts, but thinks I'd be insane to get up when he did. His exact words are "If you got up with me I'd wondered where the aliens snatched my wife to"

[Rhondabee]

I think it depends a lot on the pattern of the parent. I am an early riser and energetically done by the afternoon. If I allowed my kids to follow their own inner clock, one wouldnt be up till 11am, and the other would be maybe 8. But it just wouldnt work for me, and I am the key. Their rising time is 7.

 

I like SWB's thoughts on scheduling and afternoon rest times etc, but my kids have afternoon activities, friends on the street after school, one has a job, etc, and so it just works for us to keep to "school hours" to a fair extent. *I* have an afternoon rest time of 1-2 hours, but my kids keep doing their work so that by 3pm they are free to do other things. They dont disturb my rest time, so it works for us all. No way could we get back to work after a rest time for us all- with neighbourhood kids knocking on the door etc. We don't do school all year for the same reason- too much else is happening during the holidays. its a great concept, and in different circumstances- like if we lived in the country- we might do it- but it just wouldnt work here.

 

Yeah - I was a little intrigued at doing school year-round, too. Then I realized that my oldest is going to be a camp counselor for 5 weeks, and will be in camp himself for almost a week and a half. I think he might be ready to get back to school after all that - LOL!

[Ellie]

I would gladly trade dc sleeping until 8 for having two hours in the afternoon.

 

Besides, when the dc are older, they naturally tend to spend the afternoons doing their own thing, anyway. It's a win-win situation.:D

[Kelli in TN]

I get up early (4:45)

 

That comes twice a day?

[ladydusk]

I would be very interested in getting a recorded copy or printout of SWB's talk where she mentioned this.:001_smile: It sounds like just my kind of thing.

 

I'm pretty sure it is in the talk she doesn't have recorded (for very good, personal reasons). I don't remember there being really much more to it (other than the descriptions of her mother's sleeping, reclining, reading during those 2 hour quiet times).

[Rhondabee]

I think I finally figured it out this morning: compartmentalization! My life has always been very compartmentalized. That's why it took me so long to see that the re-writes of history & science outlines weren't supposed to be done during history or science time. Well, that and the fact that in school, if a history teacher assigns you a history essay, it's "history" not "writing". Make sense?

 

I think one reason I've been able to do WTM history and literature to the extent I have is because I use them as if they were a curriculum. Again, very compartmentalized. My kids are probably that way as well, which is why they always would just rather go on to the next thing rather than "dig in" and discover as much as possible about any *one* thing.

 

Now that I'm beginning to understand the writing and rhetoric better, I think I'll be fine *if* I schedule it and use it as I would a curriculum.

 

So, anyway, I remain intrigued by SWB's lifestyle. It seems very relaxed, very Moore-foundation, life is learning all the time, so go with the flow of things. BUT, very disciplined at the same time. I don't think I'll ever understand it, and I'm beginning to think it would just never "fit". But, I do admire it, and am glad I can still use her ideas and suggestions, even if I'm not using them as efficiently as she is. =)

[Colleen in NS]

I think I finally figured it out this morning: compartmentalization! My life has always been very compartmentalized. That's why it took me so long to see that the re-writes of history & science outlines weren't supposed to be done during history or science time. Well, that and the fact that in school, if a history teacher assigns you a history essay, it's "history" not "writing". Make sense?

 

I think one reason I've been able to do WTM history and literature to the extent I have is because I use them as if they were a curriculum. Again, very compartmentalized. My kids are probably that way as well, which is why they always would just rather go on to the next thing rather than "dig in" and discover as much as possible about any *one* thing.

 

Oh yeah, totally makes sense. This has been me/us up until very recently. Now I'm trying to turn things around and sometimes my son seems confused or like he doesn't quite trust me when I say, "Go browse this pile of books on the circulatory system (if he chose from the spine book to read about the circ. system for the next while). At writing time, pick a topic from that to narrate/outline."

 

And the part above that I bolded? Wow, you just gave me another little bit of insight into how we've been doing it - this is a great description. Now I can change it!

 

Now that I'm beginning to understand the writing and rhetoric better, I think I'll be fine *if* I schedule it and use it as I would a curriculum.

 

So, anyway, I remain intrigued by SWB's lifestyle. It seems very relaxed, very Moore-foundation, life is learning all the time, so go with the flow of things. BUT, very disciplined at the same time. I don't think I'll ever understand it, and I'm beginning to think it would just never "fit". But, I do admire it, and am glad I can still use her ideas and suggestions, even if I'm not using them as efficiently as she is. =)

 

I think it's that she *knows* what skills to teach, knows how to teach them, and follows a general yearly pattern for history/lit./science, and so can integrate them into their overall life. And so, too, you and I (and I'm sure lots of others) are learning to do the same things. So, yeah, schedule the skills, but let 'em go to town at other times of the day with reading the content.

 

You have no idea how much chatting with you has helped me to clarify some things here at home!:D

[Mommy22alyns]

Ugh. One of my greatest joys in homeschooling is to hear that bus roll by at 7 am and thank my lucky stars that I get to still be in BED! :D

[Rosy]

I can't get my kids to stay in their rooms until 8am, unfortunately (the allure of a hug and kiss from Daddy is too much for them!). But I am a firm believer in off-duty time--it's how I survived having newborns (8pm-11pm was my time, no matter what), and it's my biggest recommendation to new moms or moms that are struggling. We do have a 2 hour quiet time most afternoons and an early (8pm) bedtime most nights. The afternoon quiet time is particularly important--it's what makes me able to make my husband a priority when he gets home from work. I don't mind working for the rest of the evening and letting him relax since I've already had my time.

[2greatkids]

Our house too.. I can't imagine having to wake my kids up! They both (6 and 4) have clocks and can't come out until 7. This makes for a happier mama! :D

 

Oh my goodness. Left to his own devices, my 8yo would get up at 4AM! And he'd wake his sleep-loving sis up so he wouldn't be lonely.

 

Right now, I think it's about 6, but 8yo plays w/ the littles, feeds them 1st breakfast (lol), & so...while I care a little, I haven't done anything about it since the move.

 

Before the move, it had gotten bad enough that we put a digital clock in their room. NO. getting. out. of. bed. before. 7. Because the others (esp 2yo) can just SENSE a waked-up body. But they seem to be 2 peas in a pod (the 8yo & 2yo), so they're pretty happy getting up early & sharing some food.

 

Waking up at this time is natural for ds8, but he doesn't function well, if that makes sense. He's much crankier than when I can get him to stay in bed (he'd also stay up late if I'd let him), so in our case, I should probably think about putting that clock back in there.