A recent thread about choosing colleges got me thinking that it would be a great benefit to all of us if those of us who are visiting colleges would post a report on the school(s) visited. Just a few impressions would be really valuable at least to me. Longer reports, great also. How 'bout it? Danielle

I have two sources for gossip about schools. It's sometimes the "feel" of the place that makes a difference. We've only visited 3 colleges so far, but visiting made ALL the difference. All of them were schools that other people we know loved, but dd disliked all of them for various reasons. I'd suggest that once you narrow down your choices, you search on College Confidential and read any comments and discussions. They can be brutal, but informative. Also, dd and I have been laughing our way through The Insiders Guide to the Colleges, (by some Yale student group), which profiles the academic atmosphere and social scene at a lot of places. Of the colleges we're familiar with, they've been dead on. For example, at my alma mater (Univ. of Chicago) they christen it, "where fun goes to die". They accurately characterize the social scene (no sports, heavy discussions) and accurately portray it as a great place for intellectual nerds. They also do a great job of profiling Northwestern, in our town. BTW, a plug! A kid with a bunch of APs and off beat interests should definitely check out Univ. of Chicago. Danielle

Just when you think you have everything planned, something else happens. I was positive dd could take AP chemistry & physics at our local high school and cover AP that way. After our 4 day experience (different class), I don't think we'll be having much to do with the school again in this lifetime. So now I'm wondering, if your kid takes, say, a chem class at the local CC, do you count 1 semester as a year's worth of high school chemistry (that's probably how I'd count a language course)? Do you still take the AP Chem exam? Same for physics? These courses would all have a lab component. Dd is so busy with other activities that it looks like a real advantage if each of these courses could be completed in a semester, but I know there are people on this list who are much more science competent than I am. WWYD? Danielle

I cross checked dd after she finished LOF Beginning Algebra by having her take the Saxon and teaching textbooks placement tests, both of which she got better than 90% on, so, rigorous enough I'd say. I think LOF requires much more thinking than Jacobs--altho that's a good text, it tends to give endless variations of the same problem. It depends on whether your dc needs a lot of reiteration or not. Occassionally, my dd HAS needed a few more problems to practice, but we've either pulled them from the internet or an old copy of Jacobs that I got at a library sale. LOF has been the most engaging math series we've ever done. Sometimes I think that we are so used to math torture that when a book is actually fun, that must mean it can't be rigorous. Not so, imho. Danielle

My dd took the SAT as part of a talent search back in 7th grade. The writing was mandatory even tho the talent search didn't use it. She was lousy at essays at the time. But the writing also includes a grammar section, which she aced and ended up with a pretty good score anyway. Tell your dd that mine said it was no where near as bad as she worried--it's just a five paragraph essay format. It doesn't have to be brilliant so much as it has to be LONG. So just keep writing! Plus, if she's headed for college, taking quick essay tests may be a big part of her future, so she may as well practice! Dd did better on the SAT then the ACT, contrary to my expectation. Now that you don't have to report all SAT scores, I'd say it would be worth taking the chance that she'd do better on the SAT. Danielle

There's a difference in taking reasonable risk by investing in stocks and being sucker punched by unregulated robber baron capitalism. I've been investing in stocks for 30 years now and have certainly seen swings aplenty. But the Bush administration has allowed the banking and lending industries to run riot, his cronies to clean up while lining their own pockets, and now the taxpapers will have to bail out his administration's incompetent policies. How anyone can look at this utter collapse and not see it as final proof that Republican fiscal policies are utterly bankrupt (pun intended) is beyond me. But then, I suppose some people still believe the world is flat. Danielle

I concluded years ago that I don't know how to behave, (actually my teachers concluded that). I guess it never ends, given the trouble I've gotten in from time to time. Okay, so can I issue an apology in advance that's good at least through election season?:001_smile: Danielle

The classic title for how to pitch a book is How to Write A Book Proposal by super-agent Michael Larsen. Another "classic" is Be Your Own Literary Agent by Martin Levin. I know your son's into fiction writing, but a good one I have is Nonfiction book Proposals Anybody Can Write by Elizabeth Lyon. She also wrote a book called The Sell Your Novel Tool Kit, but I haven't seen it. Both writers magazines have lots of articles on this, and many of the articles can be read on their websites: Writers Digest & The Writer Magazine. If you think your son might be at all interested in writing non fiction (where you can even consider self-publishing as a viable alternative), try a book called ****! Why Didn't I Write That by Marc McCutcheon. Very inspiring. For some brutal truth (maybe not yet so as not to be discouraging) there's a little book called Some Writers Deserve To Starve by Elaura Niles which gives a pretty good view of the (brutal) book publishing industry. It is much more difficult to sell a fiction book than a non-fiction (maybe 5:1 in favor of non-fiction--look around any bookstore), but a fiction genre (sci-fi, romance, mystery) is easier to sell than a "serious" literature book. If he is into sci-fi, he might enjoy reading Isaac Asimov's book How to Enjoy Writing, altho it's a little disorganized. Stephen King wrote a pretty good one called On Writing, which he might look at. I know I've probably overwhelmed you with books, but then, most writers read a lot! Contrary to popular belief, it IS possible to make a good living writing, but you need to be at least as creative with business promotion as you are with the artistic end. If you want to make it a class, I don't think that just yet I would push the book proposal idea as it can be very frustrating and require a steel spine and rock solid self confidence. For example, I've published dozens of articles, but I could literally paper my house with the number of rejection slips I've received (often for the same articles that are bought by another editor). Sometimes you will labor on an article forever or book proposal and it will be rejected everywhere (even after the editor has expressed interest) and the next time you'll toss off a 2 minute idea and it will be snapped up. I'm speaking of non-fiction, mostly. Also, once you manage to sell a book, it can take two years to get it actually into a bookstore, where it has about an 8 month shelf life. All discouraging, but it's also important to remember than thousands of books do get published every year, so it's not impossible. It takes smarts, ability, and some little push from luck. Danielle

Always doing things the last minute is a good way for things to slip by you! I'm just completing our 2007 taxes and in prep for that was going over every transaction on our charge card bill--hundreds and hundreds, as dh uses this one for business travel. I discovered a charge for a company called "Passport to Fun" which neither of us have any idea what it was. I tried calling them. Line is permanently busy. Then I did a search and discovered that this is a well known scam tacked on to travel reservations and linked to a company called Hotwire. It starts out 30 days after whatever contact you made (we have no idea where we "touched") so you probably won't remember it, and the charge begins small enough ($9.95) that you probably won't notice it if you travel a lot, which is what they're banking on. Then, when they're sure you don't pay much attention (like me, I guess) they start to raise the charge. Check those credit card bills!! I'd be interested in knowing if anyone else finds this on their bill. Danielle

Two little suggestions for World History (besides Spielvogel, which we also use): The Creators and The Discoverers by Daniel Boorstin, both of which treat history through significant individuals. Both very long but very enjoyable. Also, Hewitt Homeschooling has two World Lit courses (each a semester). While I don't totally agree with some of their suggestions (their biography suggestions, in particular, could be a little stronger. I mean, I'd choose Gandhi over Jihan Sadat.) the material is pretty good and altho they're a "Christian" worldview company, and I look for strictly secular, I had no trouble with it. I hope things go well for your daughter. Great challenges, great abilities. Danielle

Wow what a terrific thread! I really can't add much except to say that sometimes I think at our house we're not so much child centered as parent-lured. Both dh and I have so many interests and talk about what we're reading so much that dd is often begging for us to finish the book so she can get her hands on it. Seriously, tho, I really do believe we set the example for our kids. If we are avid for sports, or woodworking, or nature study, or Herodotus (the latest fad around here), I really believe our kids will learn to value working at craft or outdoors or challenging literature--maybe not exactly the same thing, but the general trend. It's all about developing a culture of learning, life-long learning, by setting the example and by our dc seeing us sometimes struggle with that learning, sometimes relish it. Also, as a little aside, I've really found that with ancient literature, the translation can make a huge difference in the enjoyment. If the translation is antique or difficult, you are really translating twice--from the origininal,then from the Victorian to current vernacular. Try browsing different translations if you can. Also, sometimes something as minor as a contemporary cover and better typography can make all the difference. Danielle

What about having him read a short syllabus of good books on writing fiction? That way it shows some context for the work (and might give him some more ideas on improving the work). I'd call it "Creative Writing". That's an entirely respectable elective for high school, as long as some thoughtful work was done and a "course description" and sample can be shown if required. Here's some "respectable" ones I've got on my own shelf--I'd choose maybe 3 or 4: On Becoming a Novelist (John Gardner) The Art of Fiction (also Gardner) Making Shapely Fiction (Jerome Stern) Zen in the Art of Writing (Ray Bradbury--haven't yet read this one, but it came highly recommended) Self-Editing for Fiction Writers (Browne & King) The Weekend Novelist (Robert Ray) First Draft in 30 Days (Karen S. Wiesner--lots of typos in the book but good info) Making a Literary Life (Carolyn See) Any of the books in the Writers Digest "Elements of Fiction Writing" series--I have Beginnings, Middles & Ends by Nancy Kress Any books by Peter Elbow and two more I've only browsed that look worthwhile: Reading Like a Writer (Francine Prose--yes that's her name!) Living by Fiction (Annie Dillard) and if he dreams of making a living at writing (mostly non-fiction and business writing, but it does pay the bills while working on novels) Books by Peter Bowerman (Well Fed Writer series) Books by Robert Bly (Secrets of a Freelance Writer, etc.) Danielle

My dh has (adult diagnosed) ADHD and he's absolutely the poster boy for it--every symptom in spades. But what you're describing, first your ds cannot do the work, then under threats he can, is absolutely ADHD--my husband can remember the name of every Civil War general's horse, but sometimes not my name! It comes down to what is highly interesting--if your ds is under threat, or taking an SAT, the crisis makes it highly interesting and he can pay attention. We've been told that many emergency room doctors are ADHD--crisis allows them to function and focus. With dh, the attention issue used to cause a lot of fights between us, because obviously that was a way to get his focused attention :glare: On the other hand, I worked with another ADHD child last spring, also 5th grade, and seriously behind in reading. It really gets to be an issue in regular school because by 6th grade, they expect these skills to be in place and move on to content. So you begin to lag in content, also. While you're working on those skills, I'd highly recommend read alouds and audio books for content in history, geography, etc. so the information still gets "loaded". She also really liked Megawords, which did improve her reading. Also, she found computer driven instruction to be more involving than books and paper. Also, getting outside every day really helped her. HTH, and best of luck. Danielle

To the OP: I know Lingua Latina and to be truthful, I don't know any program like it for French. While I admire LL, my dd found it confusing for Latin as so little is explained about what is going on, and so little explanation for the grammar. Sigh! it seems there's never a perfect program. Once your child is older, I'd strongly suggest using French in Action, but I really think that the child, even a gifted learner, needs to be in about 7th grade at least before the program is really suitable. Danielle

The problem with beginning with a reading based approach is that you really can't read anything without a minimum vocabulary. Generally, newspapers are about the simplest authentic reading, but for a Romance language, you generally need (I've heard) about 2500-3000 vocabulary words. You can't begin with readings until you have some vocabulary and basic grammar structures learned: at least present tense, imparfait, passe compose and futur. In First Start French, Book One I covered about 400 of the most common words in French, and several hundred more in the first part of Book 2. In book one, the dialogues are short because you're working with a very controlled vocabulary and very limited grammar. In Book 2, as vocabulary increases and grammar and verb tense proficiency improves, I move into short readings on historical characters, cities, French scientists and artists, etc., still using a controlled vocabulary. Book 2 is finished on my end, in editing at Memoria, and should be available quite soon. For reading practice, I'd suggest searching for "Chansons et comptines" on the web, getting very elementary French children's books from the library (Babar and Le Petit Prince are way too hard for early beginners) and working through them by following the suggestions in FSF for "using Great Books". The other resource I love is a magazine called "J'apprends a Lire", but it will be a bit hard for an early beginner. See if you can get just one copy, or get it through a library or newsstand--a subscription will be overwhelming, but I believe it's available thru Amazon (I get it at a local newsstand). For older students, I really love Euronews on the web--short segments with text and webcasts. Also, if you have dvds, try turning on the French subtitles on kids programs. Wikipedia is available in French. Some entries are identical translations in French of the English language article (or vice versa), but some are completely different. Some are written in the passe simple, a literary tense not usually taught until the more basic levels of French are mastered. You might check out a book called "Easy French" put out by Usborne. It has a comic strip text and some grammar. It's not enough of a text to really teach anything as a stand alone and is aimed at teens-adults, but it is a decent supplement. There's also a book called "Les Portes Tordues" which has a continuing story at a fairly elementary level. It's a bit of a horror/mystery and my dd was a bit scared by it when she was younger, but it does emphasize reading and listening. I'd use it as a review/supplement after completing FSF Book 2. I agree with the poster who said that few texts are completely stand alone. I would encourage you to go with a spine and supplements, for the best experience. I'm sorry I can't offer more help--like learning classical music or math, the most fun begins after you get the basics down. If the student perseveres, worlds open up. Best of luck. Danielle

Much more comparable to a one year survey course than the WTM method. Our choice on Eng Lit is to do the WTM 4 year rotation, then dd will review a prep book in the last year to make sure she's got it all (and remembers it!). I intend to put "honors" on the transcript, and follow that up with whatever AP score she makes. You can't use the "AP" designation on courses anymore without submitting a syllabus/plan, but you can list scores the dc earned. Danielle

Could there be any kind of reading disability issues? If reading is in any way an effort, it will never be pleasurable. My dh is a slow reader, struggled with college academics (luckily he was a studio art major) and was diagnosed in his 40s with ADHD. It would have made a huge difference in his earlier life if he would have known what the reason was that he needs to re-read pages several times and loses track of the ideas. Just a thought that maybe you might want to consider. BTW, by grad school I once added up all the books from the various syllabi and concluded I needed to read at least one book PER DAY--and believe me these weren't Stephen King. Text heavy learning is just a really strong feature of college, as everyone has pointed out. Danielle

DH and I went shopping in the Marche aux Puces and he bought a French sword. He was so excited because it was so much cheaper than such antiques in the U.S. As we were walking out, I suddenly got the horrible thought that we had no way to get it home--couldn't carry it on the airplane! First idea was Federal Express, but they wouldn't accept it because it was a weapon, they said. So we decided to try the French Post. First we had to go to a department store and beg a box big enough. Then, went back to the post. The French had no problem with mailing it, but warned us that it might be held by U.S. Customs. In the declaration for the U.S., where you had to mark what was in the package, I marked antiques and listed it as "le sabre", figuring that maybe it would not click with US inspectors that it was a sword. The package arrived 2 days after we got home (about 5 days after we sent it), perfect condition. The French postal system was very efficient--and in this case, no problems with the US end either, altho we in general have terrible delivery (our mail goes all over the neighborhood). I don't know if this helps at all, but it was quite an adventure for us, n'est-ce pas? Danielle

We started hsing at the end of 2nd grade, so I'm not sure about really young ones, but, yup, we've always done a full day. Math 1 hour--early on we used Saxon, and in the rare event that dd completed the day's lesson early, we'd do Family Math or Theoni Pappas books, or other "fun" math and on Fridays we spent the whole period on them. Grammar, ditto, Rod & Staff and Spelling Power 1/2 hour, though we dropped both of these by the end of 6th grade as she is excellent at both and there was no reason to keep repeating. Latin and French 1 hour each, each 3 days a week in early years, now 4 days per week (9th grade). Vocab review, exercises, etc. Science and history we did 2 days each, 2.5 hours (the afternoon) This included both projects and reading. Art was on Friday. In the early years, our schedule was 9-3:30. Then it became 8-3:30. Now, dd claims she's going to do 7:30-5:00. I don't think so, but it's more up to her now, at 14. She needs to practice about 2 hours per day, plays in an orchestra, a Celtic band, takes private harp lessons and a music composition class. So don't think you'll be "less" busy as the kids get older:001_smile: You have to do what's right for your kids and your own personal style and energy. Dd has always demanded a schedule and packed in a lot (don't know where she gets it!) But I do think there's a lot to be said for butt-in-seat time. I just read a study comparing which kids succeed at music compared to those who don't, and the researcher found that the biggest determinant at all levels was time spent practicing--at every level, the most successful put in the most time, and very early on (8-10 years old) the most successful were practicing at least one hour a day. By high school, it was at least 2 hours and often much more. The child who spends significant time reading, or doing math, or practicing a language early on accumulates so much more knowledge and practice that by middle school level it really begins to make a difference. Also, as our experience with grammar and spelling indicates, some things you just get done with and can go on to much higher level material. Of course, YMMV. Danielle

Our ambition far exceeds the hours in a day, and both dd and I are guilty of thinking we can do about 10x more than is really possible. My purchases went down somewhat when I made both of us starting gridding in our time--not that we ever actually stick to the schedule, just seeing if it might even be theoretically possible to do what we plan if we were never interrupted,never got sick and never had any emergencies-:D (That's the way dh estimates how long it will take to get somewhere--if you could fly at warp speed in a straight line). However, I offer a consoling thought. Even if you've wasted thousands (I have), it doesn't cost as much as even one year in a private school. And for us, that would SURELY have been a waste. Danielle

I think it's worthwhile if your dc are absolute beginners--the stage where they really want to play something, but don't yet read music. The program teaches songs by hand position and patterns, but not reading music. I've worked through the first volume and about 1/2 of the second, but not the third (accompaniment). My own dd would not touch it, as it was "baby stuff" to a kid who already read music well. However, another child whom I was hsing last spring adored it. She desperately wanted piano lessons and the family didn't have the money. She loved being able to play some songs for everyone. Often, at the early stages traditional music lessons can be very frustrating as learning to read music is so boring and it takes a year or so before most kids can play anything they really want to play (at least in our experience). I'm not sure how Simply Music would fit into regular piano lessons--maybe it would motivate the child to want to go on to more complex skills--improvising and music reading. I also think it might be a good way to discover whether you will have to/are willing to do the nagging thing for practicing. If your dc won't do Simply Music (which is instant gratification), believe me they won't do traditional! HTH Danielle

Every other list I'm on has had moms describing what you're going through. When dd went away to a letters-only camp this summer, dh and I both found ourselves sitting on the front porch waiting for the mail carrier every afternoon. I'm dreading the college break, too, but I remind myself that I have made all my efforts so that she will be independent and competent. Sounds like your son is both able to manage on his own and still in a close relationship with you. Way to go, Mom! My prayers are with you. Danielle

We quickly realized by going to our local high school orientation (and visiting 2 others) that we were already in 8th grade doing way more at home. First of all, thanks to their requirement for home room and phys ed during the school day, dd would have been taking 2 fewer classes per day. Then, thanks to changing classes, the class periods are only 40 minutes long. By the time announcements are done and kids settled into their seats, the classes ended up being 30 minutes long. Friends tell dd that most meaningful work is done as homework. Dd had signed up for 1 class--orchestra--and attended for 4 days. During that time she got to play the instrument exactly 10 minutes, not per day, the whole week. Granted, it was the first week of school, but it was hours wasted. Finally, there is an air at schools of being at the teacher's mercy. Teachers who are very nice to parents sometimes grow fangs with the students (remember high school?) I want my dd to work with people she can look up to, not people who display contemptible behavior. Some teachers have a real idea that they are going to tell you what to do with your kid and that they know better than you do. Grades from these people can haunt your child, particularly in classes where the teacher's subjective judgement is the main reason for grades. I know several teachers who would be wonderful for my child. But fulltime enrollment is the luck of the draw, and some of the teachers will be less than stellar, shall we say. Final thought--can you stand having someone tell you that their class will be good for your child because homeschooled kids need socialization? Can you tell that we lasted 4 days? Myself, I think we're done with the local (highly regarded) high school for a long time. Danielle

We recently had a session with an admissions coach and two things he said really stuck out: be sure all "challenges" are the kind a college wants, and that the dc has solved them positively (i.e. don't confess anything negative about your child--don't try to be "balanced") as Gwen in VA demonstrates. Also, he said that colleges still think of hs kids as being a little weird, socially, so whatever you can do to demonstrate "plays well with others" will serve to allay fears. Danielle

I absolutely recommend Life of Fred. I'm an official math moron, including once running out of an Algebra test screaming in high school. I never understood basic Algebra until doing Life of Fred. Here's where to start: can you do fractions and decimals with ease? If so, get Beginning Algebra and be sure to work the problems, as he puts a twist on problems that show you if you understood the chapter. If you're week on fractions/decimals, start there. LOF is so goofy it may insult your sense of humor, but certainly not your intelligence. It seems so simple when you read the books, it's hard to believe that 1)it can be a complete math program and 2)that you didn't understand it the first time. And if you don't get it, the author will answer questions via email. He has a book on statistics, also. However, I loaned it to a mathy friend and so far haven't been able to get it back! Still, I'd start reviewing with Beginning Algebra. Danielle