I don't care what anyone says, homeschooling takes a TON of time and energy. I was 49 when we began this adventure and I was one of the most organized people you will ever meet!! (Really, everyone gets disgusted with me) I have so much energy my dh often threatens to shoot me with a tranquilizer dart. Also, I had worked for many years in freelance and self-employed situations, and I knew how to manage my time very well. Since beginning hsing, I've hardly had time to get anything done. It's not the time spent actually teaching, it's the time running down resources, hauling her to field trips and activities, the library, testing, signing up for stuff, music lessons, art projects and getting the supplies, etc. I did manage to write my first French book and a few articles by getting up at 5:00 am every day and locking myself in my office every holiday and vacations. It was brutal. When I was about half-way through book 2, I decided to try to rescue a second child and homeschool her until June. Forget doing anything!! I had no idea a second child could take SOOOOO much more time. I mean, I already had all the curricula and experience, right? Turns out kids aren't the same :001_huh: and yes, it was twice as much work. Only this time, not only could I not work, I couldn't get grocery shopping done, the house dusted, bills paid (still haven't done our taxes!). I absolutely do not know how anyone can hs more than one child and do anything else. As soon as we finished for the year (end of June), I have been able to crank out the rest of the book, mostly by locking myself in my office for six hours a day and threatening death to anyone who knocks. My conclusions: it's next to impossible to do a great job hsing and do any other serious work, unless you can cram it into holidays and "vacations". At least, for "normal" mortals like me. Be proud of what you're doing and you'll see terrific results when your kids are older. I have an advanced degree and had a fairly high-powered career before hsing. But now I have an adolescent daughter who I'm so proud of, of whom I have no worries about drugs, boys, academic achievement, etc. We're very, very close, and she constantly introduces me as "the coolest mom on earth". She refused to go to high school this year because, after sitting in on classes at 3 schools, she thought the education was way better at home. Sure, I wish I had a shelf of published books. People often ask me if I feel resentful that I've had to give up so much, usually just after they've told me what a fantastic kid she is. It has been my honor and privilege to be responsible for her life. No degree or career achievement will ever be as great as that. When my dd was the age of your dcs, I thought we had this endless time together. Now, as I watch her going out the door, it was a flick of the eye. My advice: enjoy your children, read a lot, realize what a small segment of life child-rearing is, and try to keep notes (like a field study for your degree). A degree will be very important, to your own self esteem and to the good you will be able to do in the world. Luckily in this country higher ed does not have to be completed when you're in your twenties (or thirties, or forties). Most of us have several careers over a lifetime. Best wishes. I know what it feels like to be torn. You are definitely NOT a loser. Danielle

I bought the Herodotus, too, after reading the reviews on this board. I already had the Great Books edition, so it was a splurge. This is just my personal reaction, but I wish I'd saved the money. The translation isn't any more readable (Herodotus is fairly easy reading anyway), the book is huge (can't balance it on my tummy while lying on the couch) and I find the dozens of footnotes per page VERY distracting. I mean, do you need to locate Egypt on the map on EVERY page? Often the maps are several pages away. I don't really care to be distracted by such minutiae as the name of every mouth of the Nile in the delta. I'm normally a really fast reader, but it's taking me FOREVER to get through this darn book. All those little numbers on every single page cannot be ignored--it's like a fly buzzing in your vision every three lines. My advice: get a good map of the ancient Mediterranean from the appropriate time. Then enjoy Herodotus. Of course, YMMV:001_smile: Danielle

I can't vouch for the quality of all the courses, but you might take a look at these http://cdis.missouri.edu/. I found them when I was searching for on-line Latin. Be sure to check out the samples for any course you're interested in--some give the whole course and you'd really only need to pay if you wanted the accountability and actual certified credit. Danielle

I think test scores may be more important for homeschoolers than other kids. I know that's not what you want to hear, but that's what all the counselors and college admissions people have told me in conversations. It's important to find out why he feels the scores weren't consistent with his other performance. I'd have him work and score several practice tests using an SAT prep book (and maybe try ACT to see if his scores are better--they all have comparison charts between the tests), duplicating the test conditions and timing--part of these tests is the necessity to keep sharp and focussed for a looonnnngggg period of quiet. If he continues to score low on the practice tests, I'd pay the money and send him to the best coaching I could find. I'd make "test practice" part of coursework every week. Used to be you walked into these tests cold. No more. At least around here, every upper middle class parent that can afford it spends THOUSANDS on coaching, as far as I can tell. Now that you can select which SAT to send, I'd have him take as many tests (after prep) as possible, selecting the best score. Good luck to both of you. Danielle

Just a comment on the request for substance in a speech. I've written speeches for executives and public hearings, etc. A twenty minute speech is only a few printed out pages. For any big issue in America, you just can't cover details and substance in even a fairly long speech. It's like watching tv news--you can get the outline and the basic info, but if you really want in-depth, you need to go to the newspapers or magazines or thoughtful websites. That's why we have our kids read the book, not only watch the movie, right? Both candidates have websites that fully explain their stand on many things, if you want to know substance. Also, I would add from my years of working in Washington, that the President LEADS the nation and the government, he/she doesn't run every detail. As one of my policy professors put it years ago, one of the most important things the President needs to do is attract good people who will give up what they're doing and work for him/her. The 250 or so appointments the President makes are what really run the country. The other most important thing is the President's ability to lead, inspire and articulate a vision. Danielle

IMHO French in Action is light years ahead of Auralog (I've used both) as a French course. I'd use Auralog as the supplement, but you won't need it if you use FIA. The only supplements you need for FIA might be listening to on-line news, and maybe picking up a current French magazine. Danielle

I think you really have to think what your motivation is (or your dc's motivation), before you settle on a program. If we're highly motivated, we always do better, no? If your motive is to be able to hold a conversation while in another country then I think Pimsleur is terrific. I used it when we went to Japan (beginning and intermediate level) and was able to get along well enough to order food, shop, make train reservations and argue about getting shortchanged. No deep philosophical stuff, but useful and it allowed us to travel way off the beaten path. Be sure you work through the whole level (about 36 cds)--the stuff you buy in the bookstore is just a teaser. I tried Rosetta Stone for Italian. I think it is a good intro, but it's a lot of repetition. It will only teach speaking, listening, some spelling. IMHO, it's not a bad intro, but it's very basic and no grammar. For travel, or a bit of intro before beginning a more intensive program, it's useful (but I personally like Pimsleur better) Because modern languages are spoken languages, we always think we have to emphasize speaking. But I don't think that's true. I've known French for over 30 years now, but I've "only" made five trips to France, and that's a LOT for most of us. So, in 30 years my only real immersion speaking opportunity has been less than 10 weeks. But I've derived immense pleasure and utility from being able to read novels, cook from cookbooks, listen to music, watch movies, and use it for study in graduate school. If this is the path that your dc might follow, then a focus on grammar, reading and listening is the way to go. I am not so familiar with Destinos, but if it works like French in Action, you need all the books and tapes that go with it, not just the video/broadcast, to really do the job. For FIA, the audio tapes/workbooks are the real heart of the program, and many people skip that. Finally, it's important to realize that learning language is a many-hours endeavor. It's not like taking a course in Shakespeare or U.S. History, where you can be fairly well versed in a year or so. It's like learning math, where you begin early on with basics, and by the time you finish high school, there's still way more you can learn. Put another way, for a language like French or Spanish, you need to know about 2500 words to read a newspaper. In a year, that would mean memorizing about 50 words per week, not something most language learners manage. You would also need to learn the present, passe compose, futur, imparfait and subjunctive tenses. All I'm saying is that we have to be patient with ourselves--it's a worthwhile endeavor, but it does take time. If my own experience is any standard, focusing on grammar, listening, and reading still allows you to do quite well in a speaking situation. The first few days in a foreign country, I make A LOT of grammar mistakes, mistakes that I am painfully aware of when I think for a moment. But everyone understands me, and corrects me! Within a few days, I'm back to thinking and dreaming in French. With Spanish, depending on where you live, you will probably have much more opportunity to practice speaking. So, I would say, weigh your purpose in studying any language, and select a program that emphasizes it. Then find ways to supplement whatever is lacking that you feel will be beneficial to your purposes. HTH, Danielle

Nothing works the same for every learner, but here's what I've done. I have a list of books I want her to read, each year (drawn from WTM, Lifetime Reading Plan, other guides and college top-100 lists). Up until this year, she's preferred to read them in chronological order, or if historical novels, in order of the period being written about. Then, I've searched for free study guides on the web and basically handed them to her for background. I usually require some paper every 3 or 4 works--for example, compare the written Macbeth with the movie versions we watched--is one better and why--you know, pretty standard stuff. Then, we go to a coffee house and discuss it (making it an event). This does require my reading ahead of her, for works I haven't read. If I really can't get through a work (I'd rather have a root canal than finish Pilgrim's Progress!), I don't force her. However, her tastes are not necessarily mine--she loved Pilgrim's Progress! She made me defend my dislike of the book. I never force her to read something she despises or finds too troubling. For example, she could not finish the last Lord of the Rings because she could not stand to read what happened to Frodo. Luckily, like your daughter, she loves reading. Preserving and nurturing that love is way more important, in my opinion, than reading any specific work. It's worked well. Dd burned up the tracks on her SATs and ACTs in 7th & 8th grade. The local high school insisted on the full battery of EXPLORE for placement (for one class: orchestra!)--she got a perfect in every measure except math (one wrong!). She can write--she's won several essay competitions. I never thought I'd say this when we began 6 years ago, but at least for bright kids, I say relax a bit. The most important thing is to learn how to learn, and enjoy doing it, not sticking to a schedule. The best outcome, at least for us, is that dd is so interested in learning so many things that we have to make a schedule to see what she will NOT have time to study this year, being so overbooked. Danielle

After the last 6 years of reading each book in the order (or order of the time period subject in earlier years) written, this year we're going to try "free choice". What I mean by that is that we've come up with a list of works for the time period dd is studying this year (Ancients). This list is longer than it's possible to read, I think. From that, she can choose whatever she is most interested in (using The Lifetime Reading Plan to help select), with a minimum of 15 works read. For example, she's probably going to choose to read Herodotus out of order, because we're planning a trip to Greece in the fall. It's just an alternative way to try to encourage independence & responsibility. YMMV. Danielle

I wish you were right. Unfortunately, our knowledge of history says that these moral issues will always be part of war. Some things certainly have changed since Viet Nam (more people survive who are horribly injured that just used to die, thanks to medical advances). Also, there is much more therapy available to try to help soldiers recover from the horrors they have seen and been involved in. Bottom line, when you sign up with the military, you are swearing to your willingness to kill people. If you do manage to avoid combat, you are enabling someone else to go kill in your place. But sadly, involvement in atrocities continues to occur. I'm sure you're aware of the events at Abu Ghraib. Perhaps you are not familiar with the investigation of alleged atrocities in (Marine Corps) Kilo company (btw, that was my dh's old unit). Here's a link http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1198892,00.html Unfortunately, I was not able to find a newer follow up. But what is described in this article is not something I would ever want my child to be involved in. Danielle

My husband is a former Marine Corps officer. He has become a Quaker in large part because of his experiences in the military and in Viet Nam. He says to young people who are contemplating joining the military two things. I will try to state this as well as I can for him. The first is, are you ready to surrender all your decision making and morality to another person? In all situations, you must obey your commander. If you do not, you risk being shot or going to prison. If you do, you may be asked to do something terrible which is against your morals and against humanity. In the heat of extreme crisis and danger, you will have to make a split second decision. Do you know that you are strong enough to do so, and that any decision you make may torture you (and the families of the victims) for the rest of your life? No soldier ever thought he would be a party to atrocities. Second, dh suggests that you visit a base hospital, or even better, the new Museum of the Marine Corps. While you are there absorbing all the glory portrayed, take a good look at the so-young men who are visiting with terrible injuries. Would your child be willing to face being maimed for life? Is he willing to maim defenseless civilians who might be caught in the crossfire? For that is the reality of war--far more innocent civilians are killed than military forces. My husband says he believed he was immortal when he volunteered. So does everyone at 18--they never think that there might be these terrible consequences. Neither did any of the more than 10,000 young people currently suffering terrible injuries from this war. The count of the dead is a fraction of those who will live the rest of their lives in suffering. There are many ways to be a patriot serving this country and the world. I pray our children will find other ways than joining the military. Young people should truly understand what they are getting into. There are many other ways to pay for college, mature, and see the world. Danielle

I feel like I'm always posting links to these. But they don't seem to be used much or mentioned on these boards. We've used several, and been really pleased--they're at least as engaging as the Teaching Company videos, and often have a lot more visuals. And, of course, they're free. So why don't people like them or use them? Is there something I'm missing? Really, I'd like to know, especially any negative opinions. Danielle

How about the Annenberg courses? They have one on the Constitution and one on Democracy in Amerca, and companion websites with background and essay topics. FREE! (except the part paid for by your tax dollars) www.learner.org Danielle

Natalija: Well, here's what's planned for next year: she starts with 1/2 hour of science observation (8am), then one hour of music practice. Studies math & latin, one hour each. Leaves for orchestra practice at 11:30, returns at 1:30. French for an hour, then Hist/Lit. until 4:30. Another hour to hour & half of harp practice. Maybe half hour to goof off on internet. 6pm--feed dog & watch Euronews. After dinner--read or watch Teaching Company videos or something relevant to studies. Friday, different--more science, rhetoric, volunteer. No idea when she is going to do AP Gov/Comp Gov, but she says she'll devote Saturday mornings/evening reading time to it. Possibly she will do a music composition class on Friday evenings. Her harp lesson is 1 hour/l day a week (what would otherwise be practice time), altho they often go over 20 minutes. If she doesn't take the composition class, she's planning to try out for a Celtic band. Weekends she strives to practice 3 hours per day, but it usually ends up still being two hours, what with excavating the room (aka cleaning), church activities, museums, nature excursions, and leftover schoolwork not completed during the week. I think she puts in a lot of time on music, but unless she gives up a lot of academics, I don't see how she can put in much more. I do hear of kids that practice six hours a day. I don't see how they can complete a regular school program, and I'm not willing to let go of that (she doesn't want to). Hope this answers your question. Danielle

I fully agree that music competitions or anything depending somewhat on subjective judgement by the judges are way harder than AP! As I write this I'm listening to my dd practice the Handel Harp concerto, which she's been working on since spring! BTW, Holly, which competition? Also, my statement on cc's was the counselor's, so there is some national perception that he was reflecting. Our local cc is not much, but I'm sure there are other cc systems which are better. But I still think it's most critical to think about which colleges your dcs are interested in--that makes all the difference. In many systems, if the dc is thinking about a state university, they automatically accept all cc credit and are obligated to accept the cc graduate, so it can be a really good choice. Whenever I've had specific questions, I've simply emailed the colleges dd has considered (we're very early in this process) and asked. The admissions people I've talked to have been very friendly and, particularly when I've gotten them on the phone, very chatty and informative. I haven't called Harvard, but I have talked to or emailed people from Peabody, Oberlin, Smith, Earlham, Wellesly, U. of Chicago, and Bryn Mawr and they've all been very accessible. After all, they have an interest in devoting their time to the best prepared candidates, and not wasting time on applicants who have no chance of admission. So I'd say, just call or email if you're scared (I was at first)--ask how they regard cc vs. AP vs. self designed projects. Danielle

I am famous for over committing. It's hard when you're interested in everything. At the beginning of each "semester", dd and I sit down with a sample daily/weekly schedule that lays out all waking hours in half hour increments (just making a table in WORD--days across the top, hours down the side). I work with her to lay out classes, activities, planned-for down time, harp practice, driving time to other activities, etc. We try to leave the hours from dinner at 7pm onward "free" but it doesn't always work. Then I go over her schedule with a highlighter and mark off all the times I don't need to be with her or driving her or waiting for her. That gives me the time I can plan for my own activities. Do we stick to it? Not perfectly, but we try to, or revise anything that doesn't work at all after a week or two. Everything always takes longer, but over the years we've gotten a pretty good idea of what can be done. It also graphically lays out when you want to add something else or say yes to someone's request for your time, whether you really can. I tend to say yes to everything, and she'll sign up for anything, but this puts some realism into the picture! Danielle

Be sure to look at at least a review book for Human Geo. The test draws very heavily from the three recommended texts. My understandiing is that Runkle emphasizes physical geography (I could be wrong), whereas Human Geo is more about sociology, and has very specific themes that are covered. Finding a testing site in our area (north suburban Chicago) was a challenge for Human Geo as it is a newer, less given test. I had to call 5 schools! So definitely, start looking by January. Danielle

Holly mentioned, "1,000+ hours studying for the AP " We only have experience so far with one AP, Human Geo, which dd did in 8th grade, but I can assure you she spent nowhere near that amount of time!! 120 hours is more like it. On AP vs. CC, I spoke to one nationally known college admissions counselor who said unequivocally to prefer AP to CC, at least for competitive colleges. He said to me, "what kind of students take AP? What kind of students go to CC? Take AP." That said, I'd send dd to a CC for some courses that she is less strong in or needed less for a planned major, or required lab equipment. AP courses are not uniformly hard, just as students are not uniform. AP Human Geo has one of the lowest "pass rates", while Calculus has one of the highest. For my dd, the difficulty would certainly be reversed. Other thoughts: maybe it would be worthwhile for some to consider doing the AP during the school year, the major project during the summer where all attention could be devoted to that. You can't really reverse it because of the timing of the test. Since most apps ask what you did for summer "vacations", any project would really stand out. Or, choose an AP that is usually done in a semester (US Gov, Comp Gov, Micro, Macro) and spread the work over the whole year. At least that would give some APs--a student doesn't need EVERY course to be an AP. Danielle

The Once and Future King by TH White. Once you get past the first "book", which has been made into the Sword in the Stone, it's not a little kid's book anymore--basis for the movie Camelot. Danielle

Yolanda: My apologies if I sounded snotty. I guess I was feeling that, even though my kid (and others) are Davidson Young Scholars, that's nowhere near the achievement of the senior Davidson Scholars. It's a real difference getting into something based on test scores, and winning recognition for hard work, study, and actually producing something of value, KWIM? but I wasn't trying to be rude, and if I came off that way, I'm sorry. Danielle

How about the video on demand available for free from Annenberg/CPB. My memory is that there is at least one, possibly more econ courses available from them. Also, the National Association of Investment Clubs (NAIC) has a terrifc Youth Handbook course focusing on investing that he might enjoy. Danielle

Nan, you got me thinking about this question all morning! I think I have a multi part answer. The first consideration is, where is the kid aiming to go? If it's the Ivy League or the like-Ivies (Stanford, Johns Hopkins, U. of Chicago), probably to even get into the game,the child needs outstanding SATs/ACTs, APs, and other interesting stuff. As Elizabeth Wissner-Gross states in her books, these schools are looking for kids who stand out nationally. U of Chicago is a little more funky than the rest, but still, the kids there are outstanding, already, in their fields. Second consideration is the need to demonstrate coverage of material at a high level if homeschooling. I have talked to a whole clutch of admissions officers in the last few years, and for homeschoolers, being able to demonstrate that you've learned at a high level is important. APs demonstrate this more that SAT IIs, but most want to see SATs/ACTs and SAT IIs at a minimum. Third consideration is bringing something unique to the table. Homeschooling isn't unique in and of itself anymore, not for the big guys, at least. There are some really good schools that have a more personalized admission process than the Ivy mills: Bard, Earlham (might be a good fit for your child who is involved with peace issues), Oberlin, Reed, etc. Here, the APs won't mean as much as the individual projects, and I would favor the unique projects. Fourth, if it's a state university your child is interested in, then the scores and numbers will count much more than the individualism, and I would favor emphasis on APs. Usually, you can figure out what your chances are of State U. admission just based on SAT/ACT and grade point average, and you get a ton of credit for AP. For example, if my dd does all the APs she's planned, she'll get more than a year of credit at U. of Ill. (all will count) and hardly any at U. of Chicago or Princeton (two she aspires to, at least for now). U of I will be a slam dunk. With U of Chicago or Princeton, no one has a slam dunk. Finally, you need to consider whether we're talking life learning and fulfillment or college admissions. Sure, college admissions are important, but life satisfaction is more so. My step son was a really crummy student. He spent most of high school playing basketball and baseball, but wasn't good enough to get a scholarship from either. His ACTs were so bad he couldn't qualify for our state univ. and had to go to one of the branch ones. After spending two years as the social director of his fraternity (and taking difficult courses like tennis), he dropped out. Parental nightmare, no? Well, fast forward 10 years. He runs two major car dealerships, is making a mint, well respected, has two beautiful children and one on the way, loves his wife, loves his work. Could he have done any better with an Ivy League degree? I seriously doubt it. My husband, too, was (ahem) a less than brilliant student. However, he is happy and successful in a field that few succeed at--he's a muralist (check out his stuff at www.ggplxmurals.com). I'm highly college focused for my dd, who's a really academic kid, but I do think there are other fine paths to walk. From previous posts, your son sounds amazing and unique. Danielle

Yolanda: Sounds like your friend's child qualified for Davidson Young Scholars. This is a program for kids who score above a certain IQ--it gives them assistance and advocacy, possibly access to mentors, a variety of services. My daughter is a Davidson Young Scholar. However, what I linked to is different. My link is to scholarship winners who won for a body of work, not just being smart. There are about 1,000 Davidson Young Scholars currently (my guesstimate). The Scholarship program is way more selective. Danielle

Well Trained Mind The Paideia Program and other writings by Mortimer Adler All books by David Albert: And the Skylark Sings With Me, etc. (I read them all one after the other, so can I count them as one, pretty please?) Danielle

I just received this in my morning email. Some kids are unbelievable. If you think taking a dozen APs is hard, take a look at what these kids have done. And how many of them there are! (scroll thru the honorable mentions!) And their ages! http://www.davidsongifted.org/fellows/Article/Davidson_Fellows___2008_405.aspx Danielle