Thanks everyone. Sounds like I was on the right track. I didn't expect meaty discussions for UG but was wondering if there should be any fact/comprehension checking. Looks like TOGs focus for UG is targeted at actually reading the work like the big kids then they can do some projects like the younger ones. Ok. I can add if I want or just move on. We use a separate writing so that part won't connect. Oh and thanks for the direction to the pages on the loom. I missed those!

We also left prior to challenge. We have done some local classes and TOG co-op for middle n high school.

I agree the medical field is asking too much and being pushy about it. I brought one of my younger kids in for a yearly physical. They had a new doc there n she noticed my dd didn't have the chicken pox shot yet. I explained that we choose not to get that one. She starts to go into how I need to have it done because it is required. I said no it's optional. She says the schools require it. I explained that we homeschool and are not required. Then she shrugs and says that it is office policy. ?? Oh this is new. So I said that this means I need a new doc office. Now she looked confused. I explained that I don't want it but if it is office policy then I need a new office. She went to then check with the office manager and I haven't had a problem since! (Although it gave my kids a lesson in knowing and standing up for your rights)

I've used STOW and I've used TOG for R, D, and LG levels. Since my son will be in a high school co-op using TOG I'm considering it for my UG gal even though I don't have a co-op for her or my preK gal. (this will save $$ in the long run though) But I am debating between this and something simple like SOTW. So my question revolves around the history for UG. At our last co-op the UG kids were very busy but that's because the mom's put in extra work so there would be some history pages to fill out after the history reading. Now that I look at TOG I see why, there aren't any or many worksheets for history. There are plenty for the literature. Why Literature pages and not history pages? Is history supposed to be just learning how to do some or all of the reading on their own? This would be more then LG and less then D so maybe that's why there are no pages available for history? Maybe the maps and art/crafts are supposed to be the only reinforcement for history that is needed? I guess I'm just still used to SOTW/WTM where there was always a narration or questions to go over. Yes I can easily add this, I'm just trying to understand TOG's view for the UG level. Thanks!

CW just breaks out the logic lessons for you as you go weekly. You could prob use another txt. CW relies on the logic lessons but not till the end, after you finish the logic book. The last chapter of CW them ties together the precious argumentative writing lessons with all the logic and show how to utilize both. Harvey's grammar can also be substituted. If you do hit something in CW that you didn't learn about in grammar yet then just stop and look it up as needed.

Mastering Mathmatics has 6 workbooks ... Attracting Addition, Subduing Sibtraction, mastering Multiplicatoon, Defeating Divusion, Perfecting the Point, & Finishing Fractions. You might also like RightStart Math. It uses lots of games n hands on stuff.

RightStart Math might be interesting. Lots of games n spiral

I think Megawords is good but it starts with 4th grade.

I use the workbooks. I haven't had the time to put it together myself ... although I'd love to try so I could line it up with history/literature. For Aesop there really aren't any extras that are needed. We do separate grammar via FLL and separate spelling. I do add in Harvey's for the Homer and Diogenes levels. Although we often do the Harvey's just orally since it is all reviewed and utilized deeper later in Homer and Diogenes. I do teach the spelling analysis and we do a few words a week just to introduce the idea of the breakdown more then learning the spelling. I do similar with the vocabulary. I actually haven't had the chance to teach the Herodotus level ... this is where the separate logic text comes in. I ended up using a co-op that year and they didn't follow the workbook :glare: ... I really think we missed out by not doing it all... although it still taught my son well.

I do still like WWE for grade 1 n 2. But my overall favorite is CW. Then again I consider this for more then writing... It's also my lead for grammar, logic, rhetoric studies as they relate to writing.

Well, all previous plans were just dropped as the co-op I was planning on has collapsed. So looks like I will get to really focus on the rising 4th grader ... older ones will be covered with outside classes/co-ops. Math: continue with Singapore Math supplement with: Tables, Squares, and Cubes/ Times Attack/ Challenging Word Problems? Writing: Classical Writing- Aesop B Spelling: R&S Spelling or switch to MegaWords ?? handwriting: Handwriting Skills Simplified typing: Typing Instructor deluxe History: Story of the World (or maybe back to TOG if UG is better then LG) Literature: either from Sotw or WTM, maybe use Teaching the Classics since i have it but haven't used it. or maybe read other quality lit like Narnia Science: ? maybe Lyrical Life Science since we have it, or NOEO .. same reason Art: ? Draw Squad, Drawing with Children .. have these Music: ? piano lessons Foreign Lang. Lively Latin 1 <already have it, love to actually use it this time!> Logic: Fallacy Detective or Thinking Toolbox now we will probably gather with others for some sort of co-op. -maybe just for educational games -presentations of papers written, art work, music recitals, -science classes (since I'm not big on experiments anyway) well, that's the thoughts so far ...

Basically the progymnasmata narrative is shown in a chronological story. Something that begins at one point, has a chronological order, and then finishes. This is not commentary, analysis, or discussion. Just the relaying of a story. Usually you begin with something short like a fable. Then you work your way to longer stories. Some of them fiction, some of them Non Fiction... as there are differences between the two that should also be addressed. Some examples might be longer fables, fairy tales, works like 'The Face that Launched a Thousand Ships', historic fiction like The Boston Tea Party, etc. Different programs will walk you through this in different ways. I use Classical Writing so I can really only speak about their methods. Once their students learn how to tell all different kinds of stories and lengths, they then learn how to change the chronological order to tell the story. That is, how to begin in the middle or begin at the end. While learning these skills they also learn the basic components of any narrative, ways to outline, how to find the essentials of the story, etc. In addition they learn deep levels of grammar and how to apply those skills to their writing also. Then they learn more about style and how to edit their writing with this in mind. After learning narratives, these students begin essay writing. One of the paragraphs for the ancient maxim or chreia essay relies on their ability to quickly narrate a story that then works as an example to what they are proposing in their essay. So narrative work isn't dropped, it is still used. hope this helps some!

My first try with TOG was a few years ago and it didn't work out.. somehow we didn't get out of the fog.. maybe it was because it was the classic version or maybe I had too many little ones and older ones who were struggling. I went back to it last year when I decided to join a co-op that was starting to use it. This worked out great. Other moms worked with my LG kid and did all the crafts without the baby all over it, my middle school guy got to participate in history and literature discussions and learn more about how to write out answers and keep up with a class, and my high school guy enjoyed some deeper discussions as I and another mom took him a few others through the history while another mom worked with the literature. I did notice that the rhetoric level seemed to be better laid out then the dialectic level. Also the history and geography were very straight forward. The literature took me some more work. I used to view them both as just content subjects but when I ended up taking over the literature I realized that they were also teaching skills... more so there then in history. Although both do a great job at bringing them up from a dialectic level discussion to a rhetoric level discussion. I know it is best to do all the reading myself also but I just didn't have the time. The teachers guide did give me what I needed to walk them through the questions .. although it didn't always give direct answers ... there was enough there so I didn't need to look elsewhere. I also love how they have geography maps laid out for each week.. very helpful. The dialectic level is doing a great job teaching my ds how to find the answers, infer the answers, pace himself to get the assigned portions done, and how to prepare to participate in group discussions (his favorite part). Next year might be harder as my LG gal moves up to UG and we start her on some weekly homework. However since I've seen the rhetoric last year and I'm seeing more of the dialectic this year, I know it will be leading her to where I want her ... college ready. So we are using history/geography and literature and we pull vocabulary from the literature books. We do not use the Writing Aides since we have decided to go with Classical Writing.. I'm hoping at some point to line up the models with our history and/or literature. It looks like we be able to move our dialectic group up to rhetoric next year and I am looking forward to it. Our first rhetoric group has some kids who weren't really ready for this level of work and as a result they had some real troubles. However this group will have had 2 years in dialectic so they will be well set. We are considering adding a second day for the rhetoric classes ... one hour per subject is really tight .. and we are considering adding in some of the electives.. It is expensive since I choose to buy all the books .. I never seem to have the time to get to the library ... and there are many home schoolers here, so books aren't always available when you might need them. However with multiple kids I should be able to reuse many of the books. I expect, if we all keep going, that when we loop back to year 1 there will be many years I will not have to purchase books .. or maybe only a few. And I'm getting the digital versions so I will not need to make another TOG purchase after two more years! Mind you my youngest is only 3 years old so I have plenty of years left. hths

try this link: http://ksuweb.kennesaw.edu/~shagin/abstractprecis.htm

I've done Alpha Phonics on the couch with all my kiddos!

My oldest did Homer, and the Maxim/Chreia online class before moving on to other outside co-op writing classes, including a creative writing class. She had no problems with any of them. A few times she referred back to her CW texts to remember all the options she had for her essay paragraphs (encomium, paraphrase, example...). She has also take two English classes at our local community college and is doing just fine with them. hope this helps...

Draw Squad is a fun and easy to implement drawing book that can work even at younger ages. We just read it and do it together.

Oh, thank you so much for jumping in! I spoke with a friend who said that they spoke to someone from Peace Hill Press about this. I will correct my friends, they must have misunderstood. We have been trying to determine our path for writing at our co-op so they were calling around to gather info.

I think, what you are looking to get out of CW ... you will get. Take a look at the scope and sequence for each book. These can be found on the CW website; just click on the book name and scroll down for the link. I also have STEM students here. I disagree that WWS is better for those students. Yes they get to write descriptions from science early on, but they won't get to college for some years. By then, imho, either program will have provided all that will be needed to produce papers for any STEM field. Careful with judging CW based on Aesop; this level is easy because it is a gentle introduction. I think both CW Homer and WWS will provide more challenge. Differences that *I* think we can lean on: --The Complete Writer (WWE, WWS) is not yet finished. Also, I have heard that the intended final level: Writing With Style, will no longer be written. I *heard* that SWB says that there are already other sources available. So at that point you will need to look into Rhetoric directly. <ETA: this is wrong ... updated info in posts below!!> --CW is also not currently complete. They are currently beta testing their final level. Then they will still need to complete the last of their enrichment books. ==WWE and WWS provide a script for the parent/instructor to use when teaching. ==CW does not provide a script. There are pages for you to read and understand and then teach to your student.... or provide for them to read... or read together to understand the lessons. ++The Complete Writer is a composition program. ++CW teaches composition, grammar, and some logic & Rhetoric terminology and concepts. Yes there is a separate grammar text for the Homer and Diogenes levels, but the lessons there do not stay there. They are then applied within the CW lessons. There is also a separate formal logic text for the Herodotus level whose lessons are incorporated in the CW lessons in the last CW chapter. The final CW level will also use a separate text for rhetoric but then utilize those skills in the CW lessons. There are also suggestions for literature reading, although I haven't done those. //Now for the whole-to-parts thing. The Complete Writer is definitely a parts-to-whole. Whether this is a benefit will be based on how you, the instructor, feel about it as well as how your student(s) will connect with it. //CW is more of a whole-to-parts but I think it is a bit of a mixture. When you get to Diogenes you learn about the essay and all it's parts right away. You study examples of whole essays and find all the parts. Then you learn how to write just a few paragraphs. From there you write a whole essay with just those paragraphs. Next you will learn 1 or 2 more paragraphs and then write a paper or two with just the ones learned so far. Well, gotta run. Hope this helps some... ETA: forgot to mention-- I have The Complete Writer and have used WWE level 2 and WWS level 1. I have used CW Aesop, Homer, Diogenes, and Herodotus. I am currently teaching Homer OB to a class of 7th graders and Diogenes- Maxim to a class of 8th graders at our co-op.

The part of speech will depend on how it is used in the sentence. So the dictionary will tell you possibilities but it can't tell you how it is used in a given sentence. Try this one: http://1aiway.com/nlp4net/services/enparser/ It works for most sentences. It will diagram the sentence. If you then hover over a word a pop up will tell you the part of speech and other parsing information. Hope this helps!

My ds, 8th grade, is using the BJU Earth and Space Science this year with our co-op. So I'm not actually teaching it. He gets a lecture/lab once a week. He does the reading on his own with help from me sometimes. He finds the black and white answers easily, it's the answers where he needs to infer the information that he has struggled. His lab work is mostly done on his own. So far, so good... hope that helps some...

I've used many of these for all my kids. I like them because they are straight forward to use. They build the skills, show them how to check their work, and review. I like how the skills build. They teach the curve, then the letters with that curve. So the letters are not taught in alphabetical order but grouped by method of drawing. This is for both the print and cursive...For example in print you will learn the 'c', the 'a', the 'o', .... hmm I don't remember but probably the 'g', and the 'q' BUT not the 'p' at this point because it starts with a line. They show they how to check their work for things like spacing, slant, etc. Let's see... The cursive books also review some print.

From what I've read, SM is about 1/2 year ahead of most public schools. So if she finishes 3A in time for the 3rd grade test she will be fine. Even 2b should give her most of what she needs. What I tend to do is get the CAT tests. These I can get early and hang on to them a bit. Then I preview them and take note of anything that we didn't cover. I will then take a day to quickly get those ideas across. Then they can take some practice exams before we take the real one. yep, I have a dh that cares about these standardized tests also...

Yes I have the WWE main text.... I'm just not seeing a S&S for it. For WWS, I did find this from SWB's post: ***************************************************************************** 3) SCOPE AND SEQUENCE. WWS is a spelled-out, detailed, week-by-week development of the writing skills that are expected of pre-rhetoric students in TWTM. a) Writing With Skill teaches explicit skills in outlining, narrative composition, and sentence style. B) It also teaches directly how to construct and write chronological narratives, descriptions, biographical sketches, and sequences, across the curriculum (assignments are in both humanities and sciences). c) WWS teaches explicitly how to write brief literary reactions to both short stories and prose. d) WWS teaches basic research skills, documentation, and definition/avoidance of plagiarism. e) WWS teaches students to combine the four elements of ( B) into longer compositions. WWS does NOT teach grammar explicitly; our assumption is that you will use it with a separate grammar program. *****************************************************************************

looking for the scope and sequence for WWE and WWS ... I just can't seem to find it. I figured if anyone knew, it would be someone from the hive! Thanks!