I like to teach that long division is really a short cut! Kids love short cuts. Basically division is subtracting by groups. So 12 / 6 is really asking how many times can I subtract 6 from 12? 12-6=6. That's one. 6-6=0. That's two times. So 12/6=2. Simple but now try it with bigger numbers that can't rely on basic facts. It becomes a longer, tedious problem to work out... But it's fun to see how it relates when you compare the methods. In long division you do many of the subtractions in one move

To me classical education differs from modern education in many ways. But for me I liked the idea of the Trivium. The idea of the basic stages makes sense to me. I don't think of them as exclusive though. I prefer to think of say the Grammar stage as when you focus on the basic facts in all your subjects....but this doesn't discount some logic (ie connecting some ideas like what is done in math with basic word problems or talking about why some things happened). Younger kids can do some "logic stage" work but the focus of the education is on learning the facts. Similarly, they can do some "rhetoric stage" work (ie making conclusions based on facts and logic like discussing their opinion of the characters in a book like Narnia... "Edmond shouldn't have done that because ... I think..." But still the focus is on learning the facts. Then in logic stage the focus shifts to arguing why and how. But they are still learning basic facts (new terms for math, science, etc. new concepts ...). Again they might venture into rhetoric discussions and that is fine. At the rhetoric stage they are still learning new facts but this should be easy now. They are still learning their logic skills but this is not the focus for them. Their focus is at rhetorical discussions...learning rhetoric and how to use it. I love the big picture ... How it all builds. Before it just all seemed random to me. I also like the idea of covering history chronologically. Maybe this is not restricted to classical but this is where I heard about it. For writing it makes so much sense to me to start with copywork and move to dictation and then begin writing via a progymnasmata program. I really like the idea of being able to tie logic lessons n rhetoric lessons to writing. The Circe discussion threads is leading me to pull some of the historical fiction to make way for more of the great literature but I'm still thinking this thru.

Did you realize that the HIG has a great fact practice tool in the back? I photo copied pages a26, a24, a25, and a27 and put the into sheet protectors. I have dd use an ultra fine wipe off marker to fill them in each day. After three days of not even completing them she is already gettin faster. For those that don't have this it is basically a copy of a completed mult chart, then a partial chart, then the same chart but with the numbers rearranged. There is also a partial chart with some numbers missing but the answer given so they need to think some division. HTHS

Oh. My guy enjoys reading the articles from the Impremis from Hillsdale College. http://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/current they also have their past issues online. It all free. We signed up and get the paper versions in the mail and my ds (14) reads them right away! Very informative. ...on the line of modern essays with longer sentences, good vocabulary, and grammar.

You could also have him read/listen to the news and pick a topic of choice. He can either research more on it and write a paper arguing a point or he can first collect news articles over a period of time to use as his main source for his research. I did something like that 1st yr in college. There are sooo many hot topics in the news these days that this could be very interesting n informative for him.

I used it with a class of high schoolers. We did one talk a week for a couple of weeks n discussed after each one.

How to Teach Spelling with the wkbks How to Spell might help. It is not completely independent as there is dictation instead if tests. However she will be able to still use the phonograms that she learned to help.

I'll second Mary Daly's First Whole Book of Diagramming. It examines the concepts in the back and references which of th earlier pages show the related diagrams. There are pages and pages of just diagrams!

Writing. I like FLL 1/2 w/o the workbook. We do the copywork n dictation for writing. Then I tend to use Classical Writing. Handwriting. Handwriting skills Simplified Phonics. Alpha phonics, Bob Books, Letter Factory DVD , wWord Factory DVD , n Doodling Dragons book from Logic Of English. Reading. No reading program. Books at or below reading level. This year I am going to help my slow reader with lots of joint read alouds n Reading Detective SW. Math. Singapore Math, RS math games, lots if early work with the RS abacus, this year focusing on math facts Grammar. FLL 1/2, Clasical Writing grammar with or without Rod n Staff English. Spelling. Did not like early levels of Rod N staff spelling so we went back to How to Teach Spelling. Bible. We just read n discuss with dad. Starting Primary Bible Reader this year. History. SOTW, TOG. (But prob not using anything this year). Might take some time to learn about our town, county, n state. Geography. SOTW, TOG. (But prob not using anything this year). Might take some time to learn about our town, county, n state. Science. No favorites. Trying NOEO chem this year. Have used Real Science for Kids also. Art. Draw Squad, Drawing with Children, n some parts do Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain. Music. Classical kids CDs

I choose to teach grammar each year till about 9th. I also do diagramming throughout. I really like how it helps to see how the sentence holds together, how the parts relate to each other. Since we use Classical Writing I also do some parsing. This is another tool to better understand how a sentence is constructed.

This is my 3rd 9th grader!!?! Math-- Algebra 1 outside class using Jacobs Algebra Thru his co-op he is getting: -TOG yr 1 & part of 2 (plan is to do TOG in 3 yrs) --history, philosophy, government --literature -English writing n grammar -Biology -speech club I was going to add Latin and JAVA but I'm not sure he will have time for it. He also has Boy Scouts and I hope to add winter swim and maybe piano/guitar lessons.

I've used Reading Detective CD before and will again this year w dd. I liked that it not only had them answer the comprehension questions but the kids also have to highlight the sentence that backs up their answer. If they are wrong they get to try again or they can get hints.

Well check out Classical Writing. It is similar to CAP but has more levels already available and incorporates grammar, logic, n rhetoric.

Hmm I can relate to some of this. I don't like lots of "things" to pull out for math. At one point I had gotten RightStarts tutorial book with their Al Abacus. I didn't choose to follow with RS but I am glad to have the abacus.... One manipulative to show many concepts...no pieces to deal with. I use it with other programs now. From what I have seen none of the math programs are complete in one book. Most need additional fact review, games, word problems, etc. Next thing is to realize that you are just teaching arithmetic at this point. Yes there are different ways to introduce it n work with it but it's all arithmetic. Math isn't the only subject that has many programs that consider themselves the end-all be-all....just glance at phonics choices and you will see what I mean! I can totally rate to you wanting to discuss this with your dh and to the fact that he doesn't feel qualified to help you. My dh doesn't help with these decisions either....but when he does venture an opinion I get a quick yes to the last one I mentioned. His says if you find one thing that You think will work then stop looking...but I don't know what might work till I have consider all to most of what is out there .. And then I'm down to a few options n it is all up to me. Ug. Now back to math. Basically all the programs mentioned can lead to great success. It basically boils down to determining your child's learning preferences and your teaching preferences. Sounds like your doc is still young. Maybe take a year to work on the basics of numbers, amounts, simple addition. There are many literature books that touch I this as well. At the same time you can consider both his and your preferences for spiral vs mastery (learning/teaching something new each day plus reviewing older material to cement vs learning/teaching one concept to mastery with occation all review just for review sake). You already know you don't wantots of pieces.. That helps to pair down the choices.

I also type my dd oral narrations. Then she can copy them or I can use them for dictation. Another option to consider is recording their oral narrations. They or you or you both can listen, pause it, get it on paper, & repeat till done.

Lial's Basic College Math txt does a great job of reviewing all arithmetic and going thru pre-Algebra. Most just pre test each chapter and only linger where needed. Usually you can get the txt for about $5 or $10.

When there's a will there's a way. always liked the poem on work: Work while you work, Play while you play, This is the way To be happy each day. All that you do, Do with your might, Things done by half Are never done right. Author: Unknown Then there's also Romans 15:4 in my sig...

I just recently read thru that thread also. Since then I have been trying to read some of their articles as I am not big on audio learning. I think they are eliminating the general historical literature (stories written to get a real feel for the times) not necessarily the children's adaptations of the classics. But this is my guess as I don't see that written anywhere. For literature I'm thinking of reading the classics that are mainly for the younger kids during our grammar stage.... Narnia, Phantom Tollbooth, Book of Virtues, Pollyanna, Peter Pan, etc. For history I'm thinking if picking a good narrative spine like STOW or Guerber's Story of the ____. Then we will do the related geography n timelines. If there is an appropriate adaptation of a classic that ties into our history then maybe we will read that also. I still think there is a benefit to introducing the classical early ...ie a benefit when they begin to read them in high school. Circe hasn't pulled me from this ...yet. But I do agree that there is only so much time in the day ... I'd rather have them read the classics that don't tie into history then the historical fiction that does.

My der ones used CW Aesop mainly. We did EnS English 3 but stuck mostly to the grammar. They did do dome narrations from history n copywork/dictation for spelling. My current 4th grader will be doing Aesop B thus year. I may not add in the RnS English grammar but instead do Lively Latin (which has grmar). I may add in letter writing but I'm not sure yet.

Hmm you can probably make this work if you keep your models short. I think fables n such are usuaully chosen because they are short and complete narratives. This way the young student doesn't need to deal with starting In the middle of a narrative....deciding which details to write about and which to leave out. Taking a piece from a longer narrative is more of what you will find in CW Homer. .. N other progymnasmata narrative levels. You might be able to make it work if you are careful about the size and completeness of the narrative. ?

Are there any other writing programs that apply what is learned in formal logic courses? I know CW Herodotus does this. They have the students go through Traditional Logic while going through the CW Herodotus book and then the last chapter teaches how the logic skills can be applied or utilized for argumentative writing. This is one of the features that attracted me to CW. I was wondering if there are other programs that do this as well?

ug.. hugs! been there, see that here too. Well done for outlasting him! done is less then a minute? ...then it wasn't an ability issue, just a power struggle .... and you won. but I'm right there with ya, don't know why they have to spend more energy trying to get out of work then just getting it done, but they do. ug.

Actually I think it is okay that she knows your frustration with math. I struggle over word problems and this mental math stuff is all new to me... I'll tell my kids this directly, but then I tell them that hopefully we can prevent them from struggling in the same areas as me... we can work on it together ... funny but once they start to get it they are easily quicker then I am! lol

hmm, since she likes LOF maybe some other stories that highlight math ... check your library for: Cyberchase videos or the Magic School Bus videos/books There are plenty of literature books that could be used ... a simple internet search for "math literature" yields several sites. try: http://www.livingmath.net/Home/tabid/250/Default.aspx

well... it will affect her ability to take science classes in high school and college. High school level chem really needs PreAlgebra as a pre-requirement. Plus knowing basic math is handy in life when shopping, dealing with discounts, cooking, paying bills, picking insurance packages, etc. So yes, I think math is really important. My kids fell 'behind' in math and I didn't think too much about till it affected their ability to take upper level science classes... oops! Not getting their facts down really showed when their upper math took even longer then most because they were thinking about 8x7 in addition to the entire algebra or calculas problem at hand. I don't think she is too young to pause and work on this... maybe even consider a tutor. My oldest and I clashed over math for awhile before I finally got her a tutor. It wasn't an overnight explosion of knowledge, but it was helpful! BUT I do think that you are doing GREAT thinking this through for her while she is so young! You have already tried a few different options and you are still looking... she probably doesn't know to say this yet so I'll say it .. way to go Mom! (she'll get there though..) hmm, she likes math if it is story ... does she like games? maybe RightStart would help?