Could I get some pros and cons of CW Diogenes Chreia and Maxim? We are going to use this when we're done with Homer. Any tips on how to make it work well for us? I know it will need teacher involvement, but how much? Is there a way to make the teaching part easier or less complicated? Thank you for any help you can give!

We are using Aesop A (3rd gr), and so far I have felt like the grammar portion hasn't been rigorous enough (we used FLL1 and 2 in first and second grade), so I was going to supplement with R &S but then looked at Aesop B and realize the grammar gets more rigorous, which is good. But for the rest of this year I was wondering if I should do 1 week (grammar and writing in the same week vs one week) for each passage, then move into Aesop B whenever we finish during this school year OR continue at same pace and supplement with some R&S to beef up the grammar in Aesop A? I feel like the current 2wk per passage pace drags a little and I feel like I want a more rigorous grammar (Like what I see in Aesop B). I do have R&S English 3, so I can supplement as needed. What are your thoughts? So far my DS has done very well with the outline, first draft, final draft retelling process. I'm still doing a lot of directing during the outlining, but there has been some obvious gains in independence. I'd like to iron out my plan before break is over so I can start fresh after break with no lag time. Thank you in advance for your insights. :)

It looks like I will want them each to have a copy of the core book - any thoughts? thanks Carolyn

We've been through most of CW Aesop, though not all of B. I happen to have all of Aesop, all of Homer and all of Older Beginners, but I'm not sure which one to choose. OB looks like it moves pretty fast. This is mostly for my 7th grader who is finishing WWE 2 and almost into 3. I'd also tag along my LD son who needs slow and steady (and me transcribing). If we do Homer, is there anything in Aesop B I should "finish up" first? or should we just jump into Homer or OB? Thanks,

We're halfway through 2nd grade right now and I'm looking ahead for what writing program to buy for next year, since we're overseas and my FIL is visiting in September; so he can bring stuff over for me. My problem is that I don't know where I'm headed in writing or what is even important. I am attracted to language programs like CW, Write from History, or ELTL, which are classical or CM with a classical flavor, that integrate spelling, grammar, copywork, narration, dictation, vocab, and even lit analysis into one program. Right now we're using FLL and WWE, but I try to do narrations from our science, history, or lit readings, and make copywork from our lit, instead of using WWE's workbook. I would like to streamline all of this as much as possible, which is why I ditched WWE's workbook so that we weren't using random snippets of lit. For those of you who use CW or other all-in-one programs, I need some advice... Is it worth the price to buy the program, if you don't use all of the components? When I look at CW's primer, for example, I love the nature study and picture study, and the copywork and narration, but I think I would feel pressured to use the phonics and spelling components, even though I already have those covered better through other curricula. Then on top of that, we're still not reading literature connected to our history or current lit, and the grammar seems light--which leads me to my next question... If I am drawn to CW for most of the components, but feel that the grammar is lighter than FLL or R&S (just based on what I can tell for now) for the grades 1-4, is grammar really that important? Is the grammar "enough" in CW Aesop and Primer levels specifically or Write from History? Should I go more CM and teach grammar through writing if I like a certain writing program that isn't as strong as, say, R&S in grammar? OR.... Should I pick the strongest curriculum for each subject, and if I like CW writing only use the writing portions? (I don't want to use only R&S, though; I know I at least want to use CW or CAP for writing.) Is it worth switching to an all-in-one for my sanity and saving time and for the strong writing components? I run across similar problems with ELTL--I like certain things, but I still would like to combine narrations with the history and lit we're already doing, not add on yet more readings every day. Even though it goes through entire books, still, they weren't the books I was going to read at that time. Or is it worth it just to save the time from having to organize my own curriculum? Then I'm noticing that many of the curricula do dictations kind of differently than WWE. They are more studied dictations. So I guess some of my basic questions come down to philosophy of grammar and writing. I had sold myself on SWB's philosophy of early, rigorous grammar, and WWE's way of copywork, dictation, and narration; but now I'm wondering if the other philosophies are more age-appropriate. I feel confused. I had thought I'd do WWE and FLL for grades 1-2, then R&S grammar from then on (I have levels 3-5) with AAS spelling levels 1-4 followed by R&S spelling. I knew I wanted to add CAP or CW for 3rd-4th grade writing, but when I see all of the components in CW, I wonder whether I should use R&S or not, etc. I want to use too many things! How do I choose or narrow down? How much is enough grammar, spelling, and writing per day, and how much is too much? Sorry this is too long. I want to get solid curricula for each subject, but don't want to kill my kids by doing too many overlapping items, and so like the idea of an all-in-one.

I'm not sure whether or not to buy WWE4 for A's fourth grade, and would love some advice on how to decide about this. I do own WWS1, both teacher and student guides. This year A's Language Arts skills is turning out to be a combination of alternating WWE3 & the writing projects for Classical Writing Aesop for writing, and combination of FLL3/MCT Grammar Island for grammar. It isn't overkill because we school year-round and use the programs judiciously, but I may not be able to continue this combination into 4th grade. I see payoffs for the WWE work and don't want to drop it in 4th grade but am concerned that WWE4 would be an onerous waste of time (folks seem to think the dictation length is really a lot to handle) if the child is able to summarize nicely -- he is a fairly good summarizer at the moment, and we're working at this so I expect he'll be just fine at WWE-style summarizing before 4th grade starts. If I want us to keep in touch with the SWBauer method of writing, would I be better off using WWE4 next year or starting WWS and using it at a gentle pace, probably half-pace? ideas on how you would decide?

We are in WWE3, and I am incorporating Classical Writing Aesop because I'd like to use the CW program as a main writing program. This is for A., who is 8 and in third grade and is a quick study. However, I also hope to use WWS in 5th grade -- we school 6 days/week year-round, so this is feasible. Esp. given the WWS goal, is it worthwhile to use WWE for 3rd and 4th grades, or would writing time be better spent moving more quickly through CW? thanks in advance!

I have been lurking on these boards for many years, gleaning a lot of ideas for my family. Now I am hoping to use the collective brain power collected in this fabulous place for a little help. I have a 10-year-old rising 5th grader who will be home schooled for the first time in the fall. His LA skills are fairly public school average, but he is a willing student. Having never done any of the WWE levels, I was wondering if he could handle WWS. I need something spelled out and easy to implement. I have and am fairly comfortable with teaching CW, but I also own WSS and Sentence Composing. Normally I would enjoy extensively researching all the options myself, but time is not my friend right now. We have had a fairly crazy last year-and-a-half which will continue for at least another year. I really need something simple to implement that he can easily step into, but something that will also give him the foundation he needs. He is my math/science boy, though he enjoys reading. His book choices at this point would be on the Rick Riordan Lightning Thief level, which I think is mostly due to lack of challenge at school the past couple of years. So, should I start him in Aesop B, or could I try WWS combined with SC? I am trying to keep things simple, but I know we’ll need to do Spelling (either HTTS or AAS), Handwriting (his cursive needs work), and add a literature component (I’m thinking of using some Arrow units and maybe a couple TtC lit guides with a guided reading list on the side.) Any ideas for effective, efficient, easy-to-implement LA would be welcome. :001_smile: Thanks!

Is this possible? I can't afford CC:Fable atm, but I own the core book for Aesop. Can we work through Aesop then switch straight to the 2nd book for Classical Composition? Any tips if we do this? We'd be sticking to shorter fables only, but I notice CC's samples have a lot of sentence variation work. I think I could duplicate that, but I'm not sure what other differences there are. Also, is it possible to do CC with only the teacher guide and not the workbook? (Obviously it's more work, but we can do it if needed.) Thanks!

Have any of you used the Classical Writing Tutorials? I'm considering signing up for the Aesop/Homer Accelerated course. $50 isn't cheap though, so I'd like to hear some positives.

Moominmamma (12) and The Snork Maiden (10) have been working through WWE. Moominmamma is finished, so I've just begun WWS. She hates it. :( I'm kinda hoping that she gets used to it, but in case she doesn't, the other writing program that I'm interested in is Classical Writing. I'm interested in how teacher intensive CW is, compared to WWS. I get that a new program is a learning curve for the teacher, figuring out how to implement it, but once that's sorted, how do they compare? I'm assuming that Moominmamma would be in Homer for Older Beginners. The Poetry book looks interesting too. But I'm struggling to find where you can actually purchase the books - where do you get CW from? :blushing: When I click on "preview and order" on the Classical Writing website, it redirects me to lulu.com and I've even heard of it - is it reputable?! Please bear in mind that I'm in the UK. To my knowledge it's not on amazon.co.uk or bookdepository.co.uk. Thanks for your help!!

Looking at 3rd grade LA for next year, would Island level MCT (all of it) and Classical Writing Aesop A work? Would it be enough? Too much? I've been reading that MCT can be weak in writing, and I wanted to continue with CW anyway, but am I missing anything with this combo? Generally, how much time a day would you spend on MCT Island? Thoughts? Thanks! :001_smile:

Has anyone used CW Herodotus? If so, what are your thoughts? I have used Homer and Diogenes:Maxim and we learned a lot. So I am not considering having dd16 do Herodotus so she can get the argumentative writing practice. It mentions that it teaches the timed essay. How well does it do that?

I should have known his would happen. :tongue_smilie: DD started working through CW Homer a few months ago. We've been going at half pace, because the workload seemed a little high for her, and I was hoping she would get used to the routine and get faster with her work as time went on. But CW just keeps piling on the assignments! They keep adding to the routine without ever taking anything away. Earlier this week, I opened up the book (we were in week 7, day 2), and I immediately felt overwhelmed. She was supposed to do dictation, and learning to use the thesaurus, and vocabulary analysis, and word copia~synonyms. She could easily spend an hour and half to two hours on all this! I decided to skip the vocab and thesaurus work, because she already knows how to use a thesaurus and didn't find any unfamiliar vocabulary in the model. It might have gone okay, but then dd2 started dancing on the table, and ds6 walked in to blurt out random comments, and then ds8 walked in to torment ds6. In the middle of all this dd10 stopped cooperating and just stared sullenly at the table...and I had a meltdown. :blushing: After I put myself in timeout, I realized that CW is cauing me too much stress. Are they making the whole writing process unnecessarily complicated?? For now I'm stepping back and doing some CM-style narration, copywork, and dictation with dd. For those of you who have used CW Homer, does it get better at some point? Should I pick it back up in a few weeks (or months)? Or is it always going to be overwhelming and complicated? Can I do anything to make the lessons go more smoothly?

Talk to me about Classical Writing. We've been using Writing Strands and like it okay, but looking for something to supplement that (or to use and have WS be the supplement). I have the WS books so I just feel like I should make use of them. I also want to stay with Easy Grammar for technical---my ds just adores EG. But I've been looking at CW and I'm a little confused. Do you just progress each year-Aesop books one year and then Homer the next? Or do you use Aesop for two years? Also there's the Aesop/Homer combined? Basically I'd like to know from those who use this---when and where did you start? And what did you like/not like about it? Secular? Not secular? Are they consumable or can they be recycled through siblings? I was thinking of possibly looking into it for next year (4th) or maybe even later in 5th---just wondering what age it would be good to start with this?

Can someone who has used both of these programs please compare/contrast them for me?

I've read the previous threads on them. I'm interested in WHY you preferred one over the other, or why they worked for your specific learner type. Autumn: 10, reluctant writer (very reluctant; I would peg her at a second grade level writing and spelling), advanced in isolated grammar but doesn't apply it to her writing. I was considering Classical Writing because it includes copy work and grammar reinforcement (although we would also use Seton for grammar). I've heard Classical Comp is more difficult for the parent/teacher and more parent intensive. What say you?

Again, I'm in the midst of scope & sequence preparation; this time, writing. I posted here on the high school board because I approach S&S formulation from the top down, i.e. whatever we want our graduate to know must begin in the lower grades. That said, materials must be classroom-friendly. While I homeschooled from twenty years, I found lots of great material perfect for a homeschool situation but difficult to use in a traditional classroom without more changes than it was worth. Unfortunately, progymnasmata materials were just beginning to become available as I finished my hs journey. From what I've read and the little bit I've used, I really believe this is the way to go. So, I have been surveying curricula available and would like to hear your opinions of stuff you have found works. Please add to this developing list of progym materials: Classical Composition (Selby) Writing Tales (Olsen) Classical Writing (Jaqua/Gustilo) Imitation in Writing (Whitling/Logos Press) Institute for Excellence in Writing (Muller) Thanks!

Hi all-- I have a few questions about CW. :001_smile: This seemed to be 'all the rage' a year or two ago, but lately I haven't heard much on here about it. I was looking to buy Aesop A for next semester with my 4th grader (or possibly Aesop B), but first I wanted to see if there was a reason nobody is talking about this much. If you have used this, have you dropped it...and if so, why? It seems like it could be pretty time consuming, so that is one drawback...but from the samples it doesn't look difficult to teach. (Looks can be deceiving, however!) How long does this actually take each day? And if you do use this, do you need a spelling and grammar program too? We are using AAS and Abeka grammar right now. Finally, if you are happy with this, do you think the student book/instructor's guides are essential or is it easy to come up with your own examples and just use the core book? Thanks!!

I'm thinking of getting CW for Older Beginners for my older two boys. I did part of Aesop several years ago with my oldest, and had intended to keep going with the series. But then I got overwhelmed and decided that CW was too time intensive for my family and sold it. I have grand writing plans ala SWB & WTM, but it's not working out for me. As much as I'd like to go without a curriculum, it just doesn't work with my personality. I'll spare you the details. Will I regret going back to CW?

I would like to use Classical Writing for an older beginner, and have looked at the table of contents for both the Aesop and Homer core manuals. Aesop is definitely for younger children. I have also compared the student manuals, and it appears that the older beginner workbook has only 1 fable in it from Aesop student workbook, the rest are from Homer. Do you think that I need to buy the Aesop Core manual if I buy the Homer core manual and the older beginners workbook? Also, is there any content in Aesop that is not in Homer that would be useful for a 7th grade decent writer? Thanks, Ruth in NZ

When you (the student/child) are working with a literature passage such as a fable, do you change anything in it when you imitate it? For instance, do you exchange a synonym for the original noun or exchange a different tense for all the verbs or whatever? Or do you simply narrate it; and then using the passage as a model, write your own imitation and then make the changes to your own passage? To me it's an important difference because I don't like the idea of changing another person's work but I think it's a good idea to practice writing in the same way as the author and then play with it by changing the nouns, sentences, and so forth in my own work. And what is the six sentence shuffle?

Has anyone used it while using MFW? What about along with Notgrass History?

I've spent a large amount of time on the CW site, printed the scope and sequence, and looked at samples,but am still not sure about placement. DD 11 is almost done with FLL4 and is halfway through WWE4. She is very good with narrations, excellent at spelling, but not so hot with parts of speech and diagramming. DS 9 is almost done with FLL3 and is almost done with WWE2. He is equally good at narrating, not so hot with spelling, and so-so with parts of speech and diagramming. (We also use Spelling Power) Neither of them have ever outlined anything! Neither of them enjoy WWE or FLL, and both of them love, love, love to write their own stories/books, so creative...they are! I am wondering: 1. Could they be taught together using the same level? 2. Do we need to begin with Aesop A or will we miss anything beginning with Homer? Would my younger do okay in Homer? 3. Am I right in thinking that I would choose their spelling words, dictation/copywork, and they would use a separate grammar program??? Hmm....I think that's all.

We are using WWS and loving it, but I am looking to the future and considering CC or CW when done with WWS in 4 yrs (I assume her WWSt will not be done for my ds). Obviously, CW has grammar, spelling, logic integrated in and CC does not. But I was more curious about the differences in how CW and CC teach writing, especially for the logic and rhetoric stages. And how this may or may not be similar to WWS. Can anyone enlighten me? Thanks, Ruth in NZ