The Stanford Prison Experiment-okay for 13 yo? Oh, honey, I know they can be annoying at this age - but the experimenters concluded that imprisoning young people actually *wasn't* a good idea. Maybe you could try giving him a snack, or having him get more exercise? And there's always wine - for you, not him.

Me! Engaging Ideas transformed the way I think about teaching writing, how to incorporate writing tasks into all subjects, and ideas for writing across the curriculum. Homeschooling at the Helm helped me really see how to pull together an integrated study and write lesson plans for it. They cover different topics, but in a complementary spirit. Engaging Ideas is written to college profs, but it is relevant at the middle school and especially high school levels as well.

That's good to know. can you say any more about that? Is it scary, violent, horrors of war, or what? It's on dd's stack right now and I'm wondering if I need to pre-read or warn her? Or remove it?

Right - smacks head - do Treasured Conversations! I don't know why I forgot that. It wasn't around for my first child, but my 2nd child did it in 3rd grade after WWE2. It's great.

He may be able to skip or accelerate through WWS1. This was a radical suggestion I made once in a thread discussing how people were using WWS. My post is #109, but you might find the whole thread interesting. http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/490567-here-is-how-i-am-teaching-the-material-in-wws1-3-what-are-you-doing/page-3 WWS1 focuses on writing chronological narratives and descriptions, as well as 1-level outlines. If your son can already write chronological narratives and basic descriptions (of people, of places, bio sketches, etc.), then you could definitely skip it. I'm not saying he won't benefit from it, but you could skip it and move on to level 2 and he would probably be fine. I agree that Figuratively Speaking is good for literary terms for a middle schooler. The book SWB recommends for high school is this one: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0393928373/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2DA53TKIL7ENA&coliid=I2J3IMZML4ITSF

There are some great kid's books on the Kindle Daily Deal page today, including The Evolution of Calpurnia Tate, the first Nick & Tesla book, a Betsy Maestro American history book, and some other things that might be of interest: http://smile.amazon.com/s?rh=i%3Adigital-text%2Cn%3A133140011%2Cn%3A!2334093011%2Cn%3A!2334155011%2Cn%3A3441883011%2Cn%3A154606011%2Cn%3A155009011%2Cn%3A!2334155011%2Cn%3A!2334093011&bbn=3441883011&ie=UTF8&ref=kdd_2_t_4&ref_=pe_1663260_144565360

I'm not the OP, but I was in the exact same situation when my oldest was in 4th. We ended up starting WWS. That's not what I'd do now - now, I'd either use CAP W&R through Narrative 2 (before considering beginning WWS) or I would spend time doing writing across the curriculum the way SWB describes in her Middle Grades writing lectures. I'd hold off on WWS till 6th grade at least.

Here is the big thread that used to be pinned, with SWB answering questions: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/303489-answering-questions-about-writing-with-skill/ And here is the great thread Ruth started about how she/others adapt WWS: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/490567-here-is-how-i-am-teaching-the-material-in-wws1-3-what-are-you-doing/ If she goes to the first thread and clicks on the "writing with skill" tag, she will get a long page full of good WWS threads. But I think these two will get her started. WWS does script for you exactly what you and your student should do each day. Does she have the TM as well as the student manual? It is quite explicit about what the student should be producing, what you should say, how you should asses (there is a rubric for each writing topic).

You can use anything, really. WWE, or CAP W&R, or BW's Partnership Writing, or Treasured Conversations, or whatever floats your boat, really. I think the main issue is that MCT's writing books are *about* writing, but they don't offer a lot of concrete, systematic practice in, actually, writing. They are great for helping kids understand what sentences are, and how to make good ones; what paragraphs are and what are the different kinds/purposes of paragraphs; what is the purpose, content, and structure of an academic essay. But they don't offer very concrete exercises for either the student or the teacher. We used MCT's writing as a big picture/see the forest intro into writing activities that we then practiced using other materials.

I'm working on ways to simplify & streamline too. I'm posting mostly just to not lose this thread, I'm enjoying reading y'all's ideas.

It's also our goal to incorporate more regular physical activity into our days. I haven't figured out exactly how to make that work yet. One idea I have is to ask the girls to choose an activity from the local Park & Rec program catalog - anything they want. I like the morning walk idea, but Shannon is a late sleeper and early mornings are my only kid-free time, so that's a hard one to give up. I also want to change up how we do dinner. I need to simplify and streamline a bit, and I need to involve the girls more. We eat pretty much all whole foods, cooked from scratch meals, and it can take a lot of time to pull off. Maybe each of them could be responsible for dinner once a week? Hmm, I will have to think about that. In general, I need to get them both more involved in home upkeep on a regular basis. I do too much of it myself, and I burn out big time by the end of the day, between keeping up with my own business, planning and teaching, cooking and cleaning. I don't have much energy for self care, exercise, friends, etc. I need to have them take on more responsibility and carve out time for my own identity and self-care. I also want to be sure we schedule and follow through with weekly nature study/field work/outdoor time. I have great intentions and great ideas, but this always falls out of the schedule. I have to work hard to streamline our academic schedule and then calendar those important "extras" that aren't really extra, but that I never seem to make time for. Great topic!

Yes, we are all lobbying hard and waiting :drool5: for such a manual! From your mouth to SWB's ear! :D

Wait, what???? Enquiring minds want to know why . . . I'm glad nothing else has been changed. We are *really* enjoying it!

I hear you about not feeling ready! I wanted to start back earlier, but a couple of work projects came up, and then Shannon signed up for sailing camp (which she is loving, BTW!) and now none of us really feels ready. It was actually a huge relief to push it back to the 17th, I felt the weight lift off my shoulders when I finally decided. I'm by no means done with planning for the year, but I think I have the first chunk of time pretty well planned out at this point. I'm still trying to decide exactly what to do for writing for my 4th grader, though.

When are you guys starting? Our first day is Aug 17, with Not Back To School day on Aug 19. We're doing some reading - a little science, a little poetry, and some lit - between now and then, but no "official" school till then.

Agreeing with others that the strength of MCT is in the presentation of the whole: it does such a great job of motivating language arts learning, placing it in the context of reading and enjoying great literature. We thoroughly enjoyed the lower levels - Island, Town, and Voyage. The vocabulary - CE 1 & 2 - is fantastic. The writing books, while not actually useful for teaching the components of writing, are great to cover first to present the big picture, the forest, the goal of why you are learning those pieces in the first place. The grammar is good for people who prefer discussion-based, literature-grounded, Socratic style teaching, and for kids who don't need as much repetition. It's a very painless, pleasant way to do language arts in the lower grades. Having said that, I share many peeves others have mentioned. I'm not as fond of the upper level books, and it isn't about the content, it's about the layout and presentation. The errors drive me nuts, the editing is just terrible and some of the mistakes have made it through the revision process. The revised books are very poorly organized and seem designed to force you to buy both the teacher and student books, when it really isn't necessary. It is absolutely not a program that will teach a kid to write, by itself. I think it has its place as an alternative to, and even a complement of, the more sequential and parts-to-whole programs recommended in TWTM. It's also secular, and other than FLL, I think a number of the other recommendations for elementary language arts are not. It's a good alternative for many of us who are looking for a whole-to-parts, non workbook, secular, challenging program.

Planning, yep - the first couple of weeks in detail, also making sure we have everything we need on hand for that period at least - that means getting library books on hold in advance, getting binders and paper and enough working pens, getting pencils sharpened, all that stuff that just adds time and hassle to the day if you haven't got it done. We ramp up, too, rather than diving in full force. It takes a while to inch my tween's wake up time back to a more reasonable one! In fact, we should probably start on that soon. One fun thing we do is that on the day that public school starts, we take a Not Back to School Day - take the day off, go out to breakfast, go to the beach or something fun, celebrating the fact that we aren't tied to the ps routine and schedule. It always makes them feel really good about homeschooling! It's a fun little tradition.

This would be for later, but my 12 year old just finished and really enjoyed The Ear, The Eye and The Arm by Nancy Farmer. It's one of her earlier books and it is set in Zimbabwe, in the future, and combines futuristic and magical realism elements with some traditional African folk traditions. One of our very, very favorite picture books was Bringing the Rain to Kapiti Plain.

I finished The Far Side of Evil by Sylvia Louise Engdhall. It's a companion/sequel to Enchantress from the Stars, though it can be read as a stand alone. I was considering it for our lit studies this year, but I think we won't read it. Engdhal says that it's an adult book, of less interest to kids who enjoy Enchantress, and I think she is right. Not just because of the topic - a culture on the brink of destroying itself with nuclear war - but because of the heavy torture angle, which while not graphic, and integral to the plot, would be disturbing to my kid. This one didn't have quite the same appeal to me as Enchantress, and the writing was a bit more flat. One of the really wonderful aspects of Enchantress was how the author totally changed the voice as she spoke from the POV of the three characters, it was very masterfully done. This book was all from one POV, essentially, and the characters were flatter. So while it was good, it wasn't as good for me as the first book.

We enjoyed Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain, and will read more of his books. We are currently reading The Dark is Rising series, and it's great too.

I'm listening to and enjoying Dodger right now, too. I did really enjoy listening to Great Expectations, the reader did a fantastic job with the voices. But they should have paired Dodger with Oliver Twist!

The WTM conferences are great, and you could also listen to Julie's podcasts on the BW website. I had trouble with TWJ mostly because I hate reading books electronically but was too cheap to spring for the print version. The info is out there in other formats, though, many of them free or inexpensive. I do love the writing/teaching philosophy.

This may be kind of out there, but those were all books I loved when I was her age, so I thought I'd just throw out some of the other books I loved, too. I'm not picking based on subject, but rather on authors. I really think reading some of the authors as a teenager made me the reader I am today. Georgette Heyer - she has regency romances as well as "modern" - for her, so set in the ~20s on - mysteries. While the topics can be fluffy, the books are very well written, excellent vocabulary builders. Mary Stewart - she has a great Arthurian series told from the POV of Merlin, starting with The Crystal Cave, but she also has a bunch of Gothic romances that I loved - Airs Above the Ground, This Rough Magic, Madam Will You Talk, My Brother Michael, and others Eleanor Hibbert, who wrote voluminously as Victoria Holt, Jean Plaidy, and Phillipa Carr, mostly historical fiction I'll add more as I think of them.

Julie Bogart's talks have been fantastic, the three I've listened to so far. I feel like I'm finally getting it through my head what it means to be a partner with my kids in their writing process. It's easier with the older, but I feel like I'm finally getting permission to work *with* my younger dd, and strategies for feeling like I'm working with her and not against her. Fantastic talks!

I've now listened to 3 of 6 of Julie's WTM Conference lectures, and I'd say yes, this woman has a *lot* to offer besides her own products! Even dh, who was in and out of the room while I was listening to the session, said, "Wow, this speaker really sounds like she knows what she is talking about!" I've gotten a ton of philosophical guidance that will help me be a better homeschooler from these sessions, whether or not I use BW products.