My students have taken four TPS French courses, two using BJU texts and two that were literature-focused. TPS is a Christian provider. The French instructor is an unabashed Christian and much of the literature is discussed in light of a Christian worldview. BJU is a Christian publisher. The BJU French 1 & 2 texts contain a fairly significant amount of Christian material. The preface of the French 2 text states up front: "One of the themes of the first-year textbook French I for Christian Schools is that France is a mission field." The TPS courses do not skip Chapter 13 or any of the other Christian content in the texts. All that to say..... A non-Christian _might_ be ok with TPS French courses. A non-Christian specifically looking to _avoid_ Christian content would not be happy with the courses, I think. The Biblical references, the Christian worldview, the Christian discussions among students might soon feel overwhelming. If you are looking for French 1, WTMA might be a better option since they're secular.

We haven't done the Omni self-paced option, but I'm pretty sure that the students not only watch the videos but also do the reading. Yes, Omni I, II, and III are relatively similar in difficulty. Omni I feels a little more difficult because the style of those ancient works and the subject matter can be very dense. The Iliad and the Odyssey, not so much, but Plutarch's Lives, Plato, .... are pretty dense. Regarding Wilson Hill...... The site is a little confusing to navigate at first, but you can see the costs, times, instructors, and some of the classes' texts by clicking on the "Register" button on the upper right corner of their home page. Then click on the Parent Account "this form" link. Fill out the info to get a Parent Account. Then you can log in with that Parent Account and see all the course information. It's kind of a pain that the general info and the detailed info are in separate places. Just sign up for the Parent Account, and you'll be set. They won't sell your information or spam you, and setting up a Parent Account does not obligate you to register for anything at all. They're working on their site; it's definitely improved since last year, but still has a ways to go to consolidate the course information. PS---Another useful bit I just found out about... Once you log in w/ your parent account and go to the course pages, you can find out how many seats are left in any given course by clicking on the four squares in the upper right corner, under "Browse Courses." Who knew?!

I can't help with any of the details about the content, but two things did make me stop & think: "Pre-AP" and "algebra-based." There isn't a geometry AP exam, so describing the course as "Pre-AP" seems a little odd. If a course is labeled "Pre-AP," I've assumed that it's the first step towards taking a full-on AP course in that subject. Maybe you mean that the class was an "Honors" class? The term "Algebra-based Geometry" seems a little odd, too. To me, it implies that there are different sorts of high school geometry classes, like the difference between algebra-based physics and calc-based physics. But, aren't high school geometry classes pretty standard? What is "algebra-based" is intended to convey? Can you ask the instructor for a detailed course description?

We just started looking at the National Archives. The site also a really neat set of "Document Analysis Worksheets," that walk you through how to analyze written documents, photographs, cartoons, posters, maps....!

Has anyone run into Turbanian citation format before? I'd never heard of it until my daughter had to use it this year for her history papers. Is it at all common?

If you go to the course page, ie, Rhetoric I, and click on "View instructors, class times,..." you can see how many seats are left in each of the sections. That's one way to keep an eye on how fast the classes are filling.

Have you looked at the WTMA Rhetoric courses? They seem exactly like what you're looking for. They aren't lit-based. The Rhetoric classes are progymnasmata-based, so I would imagine they have a very similar focus on tools of invention as LToW does. With "weekly writing assignments of around 2 pages each," plus two longer papers of 5-7 pages in the Rhetoric courses, your dd would definitely be doing a lot of writing. From what I know of LToW I, your dd would definitely be doing more writing in the WTMA Rhetoric courses than in the first LToW class.

:iagree: Your revised idea of doing Lit at home and revisiting the AoPS Geometry class will be much more likely to bring you closer to 6 hours/day, 30 hours/week. Five online classes, especially the ones you were originally looking at, plus the EC's would definitely put him over the 6 hour/day threshold. On a side note....It's interesting that there seems to be more concern about a student transitioning from a brick and mortar to online classes than for an always home schooled student transitioning to online classes. I would have thought b&m to online would be relatively straightforward. A student in a b&m is going to be used to managing their own schedule, being held to deadlines, and having to function fairly independently. We've always home schooled, so I have no personal experience to base that on, though. I've recommended some online courses to a friend who will be pulling her child out of a b&m junior high at the end of this year, so I'd be interested in hearing if others who have btdt have had issues with the transition from b&m to online courses. Thanks!

I don't have any suggestions for a full course, but I thought No God But God was an excellent, interesting book on the history of Islam. It's a fairly easy read, and it's very helpful in understanding the various divisions in the Islamic world.

I did purchase a couple of the test booklets, more to use for additional practice, but we never used them.

I looked up the publisher's site, which now appears to be Pearson. Here's their page for the Jenney Latin program. Click on "Program Components" in the side bar. Looks like there's a student text and a workbook for Latin 1, but no TEd. Odd... there is no TEd for Latin 2, either, only for books 3 & 4. (It can be difficult to order a TEd from a publisher's site, but at least you may be able to find out what the isbn is for the workbook (or TEd for years 3 & 4) to go with your student text. ETA: You may be able to find TEds for older editions on bookfinder. Here's an answer key for the first year workbook,back when it was being published by Allyn & Bacon. Looks like there may be TEds for the first year text, but you'd have to find the one that matches your student text. Good luck!

Id start with Intermediate, then advanced, then perfectionnement. We haven't used the business vocabulary one at all. If you haven't been able to find sample pages online, I could scan a few of the intermediate book for you. (My boys are at a debate tournament and I don't know where their advanced books are.)

I don't know if it's possible to generalize that "x online courses is too much" or "y is just right." There are too many variables.... live online/async, self-paced/fixed weekly deadlines or assignments, more or less rigorous, level of the classes, the mix of types of class, etc. Mostly, it depends on the particular student's strengths and interests and extra curricular activities. My eighth grade daughter is taking six online classes with four different providers, but two are relatively easy for her and one of the hardest ones she actually likes, so there's some balance. It's working well for her. One of my sons started out with six online courses with five providers, but dropped one because he wanted to put more time into debate. The particular five online classes that this particular student is taking this particular year are very manageable for him. Six was definitely over the top. He wanted to push through, but I finally put my foot down and he's been much happier since he let the sixth class go.

I love those books! Clear, to the point, concise, no splashy graphics/photos or other noise. We've used the Conjugaison, Grammaire, and Vocabulaire ones at different levels, mostly just for review of specific aspects of grammar & to practice conjugations. My boys are currently using the vocab with their tutor. They're reading some novels as part of their online French course, but I wanted them to also have the more current vocab that they'd use in talking to friends/relatives in France. I usually get them from BookDepository.

We use a lot of online classes as well, both for the outside accountability and to take advantage of some fantastic instructors with more subject matter expertise and experience teaching the subject than I have or could pick up over the summer. As a result, we use a variety of providers, too. While I love being able to pick the best sources & instructors, there are two big drawbacks to multiple providers and several online courses. As Luckymama mentioned, the breaks can be all over the map. This month, for example, I would have assumed that all providers would take the week before (or maybe the week after Easter) off. But, between our online classes and a local class, one provider is off the week of March 7, another is off the week of March 14, two are off the week of March 21, and one (local) is off the week of March 28!! Other than Christmas, my students never get a true break. The second drawback in taking many online classes, esp. more rigorous courses, with different instructors is that there is no coordination of major exams/papers so that everything doesn't pile up into the same week. When I was in high school, teachers had some idea of whether there was some huge exam/paper due for another course at the same time they were thinking of scheduling an exam/paper. Usually, students would bring it up and the instructor might schedule her paper for a different week. Online instructors can't do that, so some weeks can be murder with several exams and a paper due. My students will request an extension, if necessary, but they try not to. Anyhow, you can't do anything about it, but you can mitigate the effect a little if you go through the syllabus for each course before classes begin and map out on the calendar the major test dates or paper due dates, as well as any days the student may be gone for EC events (debate has been a big one for us.) Takes out some of the stress and panic. Another way to get more control of the workload with online classes is to use async and/or self-paced courses. For example, Derek Owens' courses are async & self-paced so, on weeks that are heavy with exams and/or papers, the student can just skip the math/physics that week and double down later or push it out into the summer. And, obviously, the third way to manage the workload, besides reducing the number of courses, is to intentionally take a lighter course in some subject. On your list, the Center for Lit class would most likely be lighter, with fewer set deadlines, than the WTMA lit course. Since your student has a heavy load, with different providers, and since you know he loves Center for Lit, and since your student is STEM minded, it might be a good idea to go w/ the CfL course. Just my $0.02 worth based on our experience.

Yep. If a-g course approval is important to a family, it is definitely worth checking the official Doorways site each year to be sure to have the latest info.

Woot! Just checked the official UCOP Doorways a-g approved courses list, and the AoPS Alg A & B and Geometry courses are there!

We chose Primary I and Primary II when my sons were in 7th and 8th grade. The Secondary books are much lighter and were much easier to do on our own. We would have gotten bogged down in the middle of Primary because I'd always feel like there was more to discuss. And there is, even with the online class! But, at least with the online class, we had to keep moving forward. One option that was not available until last year is the Great Conversation courses at Wilson Hill which combine Omni Primary & Secondary, using selected books from each. It looks like VP will be offering a similar combined course next year, called Omnibus Survey. If we were doing it today, we would chose the GC courses at WHA because Bruce Etter is an excellent Omni I instructor! An instructor who can get 7th-9th graders excited and talking about those difficult ancient texts is pretty amazing in my book. (I imagine he's great with the other GC courses he teaches, but we only had him for Omni I.)

We're planning a Great Books sequence for my daughter in high school as well. This year, in 8th, she is taking a US history course that spans Pilgrims to modern day. She is also taking year one of a five year GB series. I wanted her to have a solid year of US history, which she's getting this year, and then she'll touch on US history at various points in the course of her Great Books sequence, most directly in the final year. I think having done a year of US history in 8th will reduce some of the pressure/second guessing I might have in high school about not doing a pure US history year.

One thing to ask about any online class is what is the maximum number of students in the class. The other thing that would be worth asking is whether students interact at all with each other, and, if so, how? My sons tried a Center for Lit class a couple of years ago and it didn't really work out for us. Definitely listen to the recorded class to be sure it's what you're looking for.

If you're just checking boxes, it would be easiest to just do one or two more years of Latin. Latin doesn't have the oral component that is such a big part of "living languages." I guess there might be some concern about whether Latin would fulfill the FL requirement at all the colleges your dd will apply to. If she just wants to check boxes with French, and there's any way she can do a community college class, as a pp mentioned, that would be the fastest, most efficient way to check the boxes since a one semester CC class can often be counted as a full year high school class. It's also much more likely to actually get over and done with. Studying a language with no background in it, without the help of someone who does have a background in it, can be very difficult, even to just check a box. If a CC class isn't feasible, and if a Christian program is ok, I would use BJU's French 1 & 2 program. It has pretty much a complete program, at a fairly affordable price, especially if you get some parts used. It includes a TEd, student text, student workbook, CD's, and a supplemental DVD. If you need a secular program, I would use whichever of the standard public school texts you can get most affordably (Holt's Bien Dit, McDougal Littel's Discovering French, Glencoe's Bienvenue, etc.) At the French 1 & 2 level, the content is all pretty much the same. They also have supports available... TEd, student text, TEd & student workbook, CD's, DVD's. The most cost effective way to go is to buy used, but it takes time and effort to hunt down all the matching pieces. Older editions are perfectly good, if you can find all the components you want. Other than prettier pictures, there's little difference in newer editions. (And we found that the newer editions just seem to get "noisier" and flashier.) With my older boys, I used the same text our local schools used for French 1 & 2 (Bien Dit) because I could pick up the components fairly cheaply and easily. Also, I figured if I wanted to get a local tutor, it would be easier. I have some background in French, so we didn't use a tutor until the boys hit French 3. My daughter is using the BJU French 1 & 2 texts with TPS online. It would be a very easy text to teach independently, but we use the online class for various other reasons. ETA: If your dd finds that she'd like to have a better handle on speaking French, a woman who runs a local foreign language tutoring center and who loves learning languages herself suggested Pimsleur over Rosetta Stone. Our local library had Pimsleur. We didn't use it, so I can't speak for it. Just passing along her suggestion.

I'd ask MP or her Latin teacher directly. They'll have a better sense of how their Forms line up with the NLE and what has worked for their students in the past. You could also look at the NLE syllabus, which lists specifics about what is covered at each level, and see what content she's covered. I took a quick look and some of the topics listed for Third Form are tested on the NLE Latin 3 exam, so, since she feels comfortable with the Latin 2 exam, that may be the way to go. If she's doing well on the practice Latin 2 exams, I would definitely not have her take the Latin 1 exam just to start at the beginning. If she's capable of doing well on the Level 2 exam, it seems like taking the Latin 1 exam would understate her true ability and the work she's done in Latin!

No screen time after 9pm is such a great idea! With all today's electronic diversions, I find that there's no "quiet time" in my life anymore. I love listening to audiobooks or Great Courses lectures, and watching the British shows a friend sends me, and talking to friends via text/email, and reading these boards, and..... There just isn't any silence any more. I started to realize recently that my children's lives are filling up with all sorts of outside "noise," too. It's odd how it creeps in and crowds everything else out before you even see it happening. There's nothing so satisfying as reading and thinking deeply about a book or thinking about some "big question" and discussing it with a friend, but it's almost like you have to _consciously_ make time to be quiet and think, and then protect that time. I think I'm going to make a conscious effort to help my children carve out that quiet time. No screens after 9 pm would go a long way towards that goal, I think. Thanks for mentioning it!

I was like this in high school. I did some volunteer work 4 or 5 hours/week that I really enjoyed, but academics kind of were my "hobby." I enjoyed my classes and put most of my time into them and it didn't feel stressful. (Well, except for physics. That wasn't fun. Sorry, regentrude! :leaving: ) That said, I, too, feel like my boys are working too much. They've gotten into debate this year, and they love it. However, going to three day tournaments really takes a toll on things, esp with another two days of driving to southern CA & back. They have to work hard to get some things done before they leave, and then they have to work hard when they get back to listen to/catch up on any online classes they missed during the Wed-Sunday that they were gone. I am so glad they will wrap up Latin this year,. That should give them some breathing room next year. But, there's no way they can get 6 or 7(?!?!) credits in and still do something they enjoy (debate.) Maybe doing some time-intensive "hobby," just means that there will be less downtime. They say they're fine, but they know there are certain expectations for college admissions, so they may be trying to do it all. I just don't know what a good balance is.

What's the topic/thesis of the essay? What exactly about the Alice in Wonderland book? Is the problem with figuring out what he wants to say--content? Or is the problem with communicating what he wants to say clearly & effectively in writing--mechanics of constructing an essay? Can you talk him through what he's trying to say? Help him plan out a sort of outline, (or "framework," for those who are adverse to the idea of an "outline :) ) ? Does he have a thesis? Does he have, say, three points to support that thesis and a quote from the text for each of those three points? Anyhow, that's where I usually start with my children. Most of the time, when they're having trouble with a writing assignment, it's because they try to start writing without even knowing what they want to say! If I'm asking them questions, they _have_ to think. And, with enough questions, I can lead them through to what their big picture, or "angle," is going to be and points to support it.