TPS's online French sequence is pretty good. We've used their high school French 1, 2 and two years of 4/5. (4/5 is the same level, with different book selections, so you can take French 4/5 with one set of works one year and French 4/5 the next year with a second set of works.) The instructor is well-liked by the students and does a great job of teaching and bringing the students along, keeping their interest. She is not native French, but she has been teaching for a long time and has spent time in France and her spoken French is good. Another advantage of TPS's French is that there is a clear, structured path from French 1 to the lit-based French 4/5 classes. They're adding AP French this coming year. The one thing that I'd like to see is more rigorous correction of written work.

What did you use for English and/or writing in 6th-8th grades? Do you want secular suggestions, Christian, or either?

Why does it take so long for the SAT subject exam scores to post? It's all multiple choice, for goodness sake! And short!

Definitely call them. The site can be difficult to navigate, but they're very responsive in person by phone or email. I think I know where you're stuck. You have to click on "Register" to see what you're looking for and to see any detailed class info, but clicking on "Register" doesn't actually obligate you to register. :) It will take you to a page where you can "Create a new parent account." Fill in the info. Hit submit. I think you have to wait to get an account. Once you get access, you can see a list of classes. Then you can click on the four squares icon to see a grid view with the detailed class info, including number of seats still open. You can look around the classes as much as you like without committing to register. You have to add the class to your "cart," and then you have to actually pay for it before you're fully registered.

Can you get to the list of classes where you click "Add to cart"? If so, go to the list of courses and find the page listing courses that has the one course you're interested in. Don't click on your desired course, yet. On the right, above "Default sort" and below "Browse Courses," there is an icon with four grey squares. Click on the squares. You should be able to see the courses on that page, but you'll also be able to see how many seats are still open (if any) for each of the courses. Just find the one you're specifically interested in.

Possibly TPS French? The one weakness of TPS French is that the student's written work is not always corrected with a fine tooth comb. So, even with TPS, you might also need a tutor for an hour a week or so, esp. the last year, to get focused, individualized help. In fact, we used a tutor who was very strong on attention to detail in French 3 & 4 just to be sure to correct any errors before they became entrenched. Between TPS French and the tutor, my boys scored 800s on the French SAT subject exam. They were going to aim for the AP, but they got heavily into debate and something had to give. ETA: TPS French is not nearly as intense as Lukeion's Latin & Greek. It's definitely a "kinder, gentler" approach, but it worked for us. 8FilltheHeart and regentrude's dds successfully did French at four year universities. If that were an option for us, I'd have done that! The CC's and the state university near us only offer a very elementary level, maybe ok for French 1 & 2, but definitely not better than TPS. They don't get anywhere near TPS's French 4/5 which uses French lit.

My lego fanatics also liked the Quadrilla marble run sets and Kapla/Keva blocks.

My daughter's mostly into fantasy at the moment. When she was 8-13 yo, she read and re-read.... Harry Potter series Brian Jacques's Redwall series Eoin Colfer's Artemis Fowl and WARP books all the Rick Riordan books, T.A. Barron's Great Tree of Avalon, Atlantis Saga, and Merlin Saga series. She also read Caroline Lawrence's Roman Mysteries series, and books by E.D. Baker and Gail Carson Levine.

Thanks, OnMyOwn! I'm always interested in what's worked for others. The Barrs are exceptional teachers, but I'm sure there are others out there! I think Mrs Hensley is. If we'd gone with LA instead of Wheelocks, we'd have gone with her.

Thanks for posting this, OnMyOwn. I've often wondered whether there might be a less intense, but equally effective, 4 year path to AP Latin than Lukeion. What texts did your dd use for Latin 1 & 2? My dd will be continuing with Lukeion's Latin 3 this coming year, but it is a tough course. She even knows that because she saw her brothers work through it, but when I gave her the option of 1) stopping Latin after this past year's Lukeion Latin 2 (and focusing on French) or 2) continuing with Latin 3 with Lukeion or 3) taking Latin 3 with a less intensive provider, she opted to continue with Lukeion. I have no idea where her motivation is coming from. I'm happy she has it! But, she is not a diligent student, and I had thought for sure she'd take the easiest option... drop Latin and focus on French. It's the oddest thing. Regarding the VP/CAP/Lukeion question, all three of my children took LfC A&B with VP. My boys took Latin 1 & 2 with VP, specifically because I wanted them to have a certain teacher, J. Hensley. I had taken Mrs. Hensley's crash refresher Latin-in-a-Week course and knew I'd found a wonderful teacher for Latin and for pre-teens and teens. Unfortunately, the schedule didn't work out. They transferred to Lukeion for Latin 3. When my dd reached Latin 1, we just went straight to Lukeion. It was a very smooth transition from VP LfC A&B to Lukeion's Latin 1. Lukeion's Latin 1 was definitely a stronger study of Wheelock's than VP's. (Half way through VP's Latin 2 class, I was thinking of moving the boys to Lukeion's Latin 2. They took the placement test for Lukeion and did not do too well on it.) You just can't beat Mrs. Barr's knowledge of the subject and years of experience teaching it. She knows the subject inside and out, loves it, loves teaching it, knows where each year is going, knows where the usual hard parts are and how to address them,.... VP was less intense, but I'm not sure that it was a whole lot less time. I know it wasn't for my dd. VP's Latin 1 and 2 meet for three hours each week, vs Lukeion's one. VP's second 1.5 hour Latin 1 & 2 class period was mostly playing bingo or some game to reinforce the vocabulary and/or grammar. All three of my dc preferred one focused hour of class and then studying vocab, etc, on their own, but younger kids might prefer the games for vocab practice. Wherever you decide to go, be sure to look for feedback on the specific teacher. I always feel like I get such a bargain when I find a truly excellent teacher, using a text I know is solid. Not only do my kids get the subject matter content, but they get a teacher who influences their love of the subject and their development academically and emotionally. Truly good teachers can touch/shape the souls/characters/whatever of their students.

Sorry...tangent... should have pm'd!

Very happy here, as well!! One of my boys was miserable after the exam because he was so sure that he'd completely failed. Don't know how his sense of how he did could have been so far off.

Brad, Thanks for posting your thought process on this. We're also looking for a one semester econ study, and this is looking like a good option.

If she needs to write the history paper to get credit for spring semester's history class, why not have her do it with a WriteGuide tutor? It sounds like it's not going to happen unless she's accountable to an outside person. That's not out of the ordinary for a teen. So, have her write the paper and have it reviewed and then graded by Write Guide or some other paper grading service. That could be her grade, or most of her grade, for last spring's history credit.

Lukeion has the advantage of semester registration. Unlike most providers that require you to sign up for the full year, Lukeion allows you to sign up for one semester at a time. If he is too challenged, you can switch back to doing it yourself, at his speed, second semester. Between your son's previous Latin and the R&S grammar, I would think he'd be well-prepared to take on Lukeion. But, really, the key is his study habits and desire. Lukeion students must stay on top of every week's work, or they'll be miserable. ETA: I should add.... Mrs. Barr lays out a very clear suggested weekly study plan for the class, so a student does have a framework for how to study from the very beginning. He isn't having to flounder about figuring out how best to study the material. And, she provides quia "games" to practice the vocabulary and some of the grammar. The student just needs to put in the time. Over time, he'll figure out how to tweak the plan and use the quia practice to work best for him.

PM'ing you, Jade.... So much depends on the child that I can only tell you our experience....

Lukeion is definitely a college-prep level, high school course. The website says to expect to spend 7-12 hours/week. My daughter took Lukeion's Latin 1 & 2 classes in 7th & 8th grades when she was 12 and 13 years old. She probably averaged 5-8 hours/week, but there are a number of variables that resulted in that average. 1) She had completed Latin for Children A&B in 4th & 5th grades. (6th grade Latin plans fell through.) LFC A&B turned out to be excellent preparation for Wheelock's. 2) She had completed through Rod & Staff 6 and was doing R&S7 in 7th grade, so she had a very strong English grammar foundation and had no trouble with the Latin grammar in Wheelock's. Only a handful of grammar terms/concepts in Wheelock's were somewhat new to her. 3) She is not a diligent or very mature student; she will spend the minimum amount of time needed to do well and 5-8 hours was what it took for her. My sons are much more diligent. I'm a little worried about whether my daughter put in enough time to continue to do well in Latin 3. (But then, I was worried about Latin 2 and that turned out fine.) Despite the fact that Lukeion's Latin class was my daughter's most challenging class this year and the fact that she really does not like to work hard, when I gave her the option of continuing with Latin 3 or not, she chose to continue. When I gave her the option of continuing with Lukeion or moving to something a little "easier," she chose Lukeion. Latin 3 is a big step up because they do word study papers. My daughter saw her older brothers put a ton of work into Latin 3, but she still opted to continue with Lukeion. I think that says a lot for Lukeion and Mrs. Barr! :) Lukeion really has their Latin and Greek courses down to an art. There are quia games to play to practice the vocab and grammar. Expectations are very clear. The teaching is top notch. The key is to be consistent and keep up with each week's work. Do not fall behind! Probably more than you wanted to hear! :)

If you're interested in other paths to AP Latin, Lukeion also has a four year path starting with Wheelock's, and Wilson Hill has a five year path using Latin Alive. We used Lukeion because we like Wheelock's, I knew students who had used Wheelock's to successfully get to the AP exam, and because Lukeion has a proven track record. Latin Alive is fairly new, but it's supposed to be solid and Wilson Hill has some excellent Latin instructors.

So, maybe assume your goal is AP Latin for now and modify if either or both boys decide not to pursue it down the road. Assuming the goal is AP Latin, it looks like at least one company, Memoria Press, does use a Henle path to get to AP Latin... Henle I, II, III, and then AP Latin the fourth year. So, it looks like 1) Henle can get you where you want to go, and 2) you'd have someone (MP's online classes) to fall back on if you wanted to or had to outsource the higher levels. Since you're not sure how long your children will want to take Latin, it probably makes the most sense to choose an efficient path that makes the most of the years you do put into it. Four years to get to AP Latin is as efficient as I've seen, so MP's four year Henle path works on this front, as well. If you put serious work and time into the study of something, it is really nice to have standardized scores to show for it. It might be worth contacting MP to see what their AP Latin scores are like. It would also be useful to know how well Henle syncs up with the NLE levels and with the Latin SAT subject test. What is MP's average Latin SAT score? If you go the Henle path, will your effort be reflected in good NLE and/or Latin SAT subject test scores? The SAT Latin exam might make a good transition point for your younger son who wants to move to Spanish. He'll have had enough Latin to have something to show for it (both in the SAT Latin exam score, but also in learning how to learn a language, vocabulary benefits, etc.) He could certainly feel good about getting to that point, even if it isn't AP! The questions are..... How well does Henle lead to/prepare for AP Latin? (ask MP, or another provider if you can find one) If you and/or your sons are already finding Henle I a little tedious, are you going to be able to push through Henle II and Henle III? (Maybe someone who's been through all three can help?) Best wishes on your Latin journey! yvonne

What's your ultimate goal with Latin? If you have a clear goal, sometimes working back from that helps to see through the fog of all the options.

I'm not familiar with Henle, but Wheelock's starts at the beginning, so you really could transition at any time. It seems like Wheelock's is mostly used with 7th graders and up, so it might be a little early for your younger son. On the other hand, it looks like he did R&S 7 this year? If so, he should have more than enough of a grammar foundation to be able to succeed with Wheelock's. You could just go a little slower.

Also try to talk to more than one person whose family is already using the specific charter you're looking at, preferably families who have used that charter for at least two years and who have children the same age or older than yours (so you can see how it might work for your own child and where things are going.) Sometimes the actual experience of families in the charter differs from what the charter thinks/advertises the experience to be. They don't intend to mislead; it's just that the charter folks compare the charter experience to what they know of traditional public schooling, and the home schoolers compare the charter experience to the complete freedom they're used to with home schooling. ETA: We used a charter for one or more of our children in 3rd-9th grades. Before high school, it was a good experience and worthwhile for us. The funds allowed our children to take classes they might not otherwise have taken. But, the most significant advantage for me overall was the accountability. We had to meet with our charter contact once/4weeks to let them know, generally, what each student had covered that month, and we had to provide a work sample for each subject area. I usually wrote up a summary of what lessons we had covered in any curricula we were using, what books we'd read, what major topics we'd covered in science, etc. It was a very useful exercise for me because it kept me aware of the time passing and what areas we might be lagging in. Yes, I could have done this w/out the charter, but that monthly meeting meant that I couldn't just let it go, "just this time." Most people are more self-disciplined than I and do this on their own. I tended to get lazy and/or let things slide. (I was very susceptible to the "Life happens" excuse at the beginning!) When I could see exactly what we'd done that month, if we'd covered a lot, it was motivating to keep going, and if I'd let something lapse, I was motivated to get back on track. So, between the funds and the accountability, the charter was definitely worth it for us. But, I know that the charter thought it was very flexible and "parent-driven." And, it was--compared to public schools. But it was less flexible and "parent-driven" than homeschooling independently.

:grouphug: :grouphug: I know I'm going to miss this home schooling period so much when we come to the end, too. I'm going to make the most I can of the time we have left... two years with my sons and four years with my daughter. It sounds like so long, but it really isn't. Hugs to you. I like to think that after we round the bend after home schooling, there will be other, different but exciting things to come.

Thank you so very much for so generously sharing your research and reading lists and plans over the past few years! It is very kind and much appreciated!

Oops... Missed the specifically 7th grade bit! :)