There may be and probably are many people who feel that feeling and just act on it. But there are many of us who are familiar with that feeling and recognise it for what it is- which actually makes it lose its power. It only has power if you are unconscious of it, and believe in it and what it promises you. Yes, it does mess with your head, but we dont have to be victims of our attractive hormones. We are not all just waiting to be hit by a hormonal rush which makes us pursue infidelity. Many of us have developed some maturity and awareness around it all. So I strongly disagree that we have little choice- we have plenty- as long as we are aware of what is going on. If we are not aware ...then we have no choice, it is true.

Aussie $ is on par with the U.S. at the moment. Unskilled adult wages are around $20 an hour. 13-15 yo wages- $6 -$10 an hour. My 15yo son earns $13 an hour working for a reticulation company owned by friends. They pay him more than they need to but they put his wages up when they saw how well he worked. Dd16 works for the same company doing bookwork, and gets $20 an hour- has done since she was 14. Again, the business belongs to friends and they value my kids. McDonalds for both of them might pay them $12 an hour at most if they worked there for quite a while. Still...it seems a lot more than what is earned over there. Tipping is not so common here though.

I guess I dont take into account everyone's different personalities, and for some people, noticing what is really going on may take some time, and damage can get done in that time. My dh is a therapist and women are always falling in love with him. And yes it used to upset me at times if he would not seem like he was being clear enough with them (and I am sure he actually did enjoy the flattery). But ...lots of communication and healing later, we both have friends of the opposite sex, he is still a therapist with women in love with him....and he learned to be very clear with them and they actually appreciate that too (of course, it is essential in his business). For me...I think it can be fine if there is enough maturity to realise when someone is coming on to me or dh, and we just deal with it. But most friendships are not like that and we would not want to cut off 50% of our friends in order to "play it safe" when we both have our eyes wide open to peoples' agendas. Fortunately....you can actually put out a vibe that stops people thinking you might be available...once where you stand is clear, you can still have friends of the opposite sex, and everyone appreciates the clarity around the issue, because once that is out of the way, you can just be friends.

You are definitely not a freak because it is not so unusual...but it does feel freakish to be like that, I know. I was like that for years. And it is more than introversion- I am introverted but I enjoy socialising. I realised that in my heart I really wanted to learn to connect with people...as much as it was more comfortable to stay at home and live in my bubble, I recognised that for me it was not making me grow, and it wasn't nourishing me in a way that I do enjoy. So...over the years I learned to "socialise" and just find the corner of the room where I felt most comfortable and could just wait and let people come to me. And I learned that even at parties, lovely connections can be made. Even at my inlaw family functions, I could have an interesting time. It was up to me. I did it for my kids, too, a lot. I socialised with other homeschool mums that I honestly would not normally hang out with....and, it was good for me. I am a left wing secular greenie kind of buddhist and I learned to have really interesting conversations and heartful connections with right wing conservative Christian women. I am grateful for being exposed to a different social set to my normal one. Do you feel it might be in your, or your dh's or kid's best interest, to learn to be a little more social? Then you might look for some way to do it in baby steps, perhaps with some therapy, or in some small ways that help you develop a tolerance for socialising. Looking out and seeing everyone out there who is socialising as shallow is a good place to examine your thinking...they are not. They are all people with deep feelings and issues and all are trying their best. If you can't have a relatively meaningful conversation with one, try another. Not everyone is superficial. If its working for you...perhaps it's not a problem at all. But you are not a freak. Many people feel similarly to you. .

I can really relate. It's not my love language either, thats for sure, and I also get stressed about it. I guess over the years I have refined the way I go about it, though. We do a lot of 2nd hand shopping during the year...my kids are very savvy about what things are worth new versus 2nd hand, and they get a lot of presents, or buy things themselves, basically whenever they really want them and they or we find a bargain. But that does rather take the shine out of Christmas and birthdays and sometimes they really have to think hard to conjure up something they really want. So...we now generally save up for one medium or largish present for them- often something electronic. And i might buy them an item or two of clothing and/or a book I know they will enjoy. It was easier when they were younger...now that they earn their own money as well...they have everything. And we really dont want to buy them ore stuff just for the sake of it. As for other people...I really minimise who I buy for nowadays. My parents is about it....and I might make treats like fudge for my friends. I buy some friends b'day presents but not Christmas. I do try and think of it throughout the year. I find the whole Christmas/b'day'mothers/fathers day obligatory gift giving very tedious...my mother isnt too bad but I get so frustrated buying for my dad. His wife is a gift giver- always sends us lots of presents....but I can not think what to get him, 3 times a year. So...I muddle through and try not to add resentment to the energy of the gift I give. I am finding that shopping online takes the stress out of long distance giving but it can still take me hours to choose something. I have been known to make lists well ahead of time. Still, I often don't feel I can really think of the perfect gift that I really feel happy about.

Yes, the world is full of interesting and beautiful people and dh both have friends of both sexes....some mutual, some not so mutual. Yes, at times jealousy has arisen in both of us over someone, but nothing that some deep communication and loving reassurance couldn't cure. The truth is, if you want an affair...or I could say it more personally...if either of us wanted an affair...we both have the opportunity and circumstance that could allow it. So far, so good....we dont. But we also have had many partners before each other (although we have been monogomously together for almost 20 years now)....so the curiosity is not so strong. Everything that glitters is not gold, and novelty wears off. I can see how it can be tricky ground for many marriages...but its not the friend of the opposite sex that is ever the issue. Its the marriage. Affairs dont just happen, you dont just fall in love with someone outside of a marriage, like you might get hit by a brick falling from a building site...first, your marriage needs to have some serious issues...or is not meeting one or both partners' needs. I think people are often afraid of both themselves and their unconscious desires, and also their partner's unconscious desires...so they want to control the situation, hence the "rules" whether spoken or unspoken. Both dh and I would rather move toward allowing each other the freedom to love whoever we wish to be friends with...and explore any issues which come up within the context of our marriage and our committment to each other and meeting each other's needs. But, we are human and we both enjoy many friendships outside our marriage. My male friends are dear to me and mostly married (one is not), and I am also friends with their wives but I often have deep conversations with the men- who I knew before they were married. I am more inclined towards inclusivity than exclusivity with such things.

Yes, dh has 2, one upstairs in his bedroom and one downstairs for work. A friend also has one. It is very doable and works well.

As I have said before....instigating chores with your kids can be more work than just dong it yourself. Its worth it...but it is work. Mine have been doing basic chores for many years and they still try and get out of them and "forget". We have an alternate week system. One week, one does the chickens and dog poo, while the other does all the dishes. Then they swap. One has a permanent job of doing the bins, the other, the swimming pool fliters. Some days I get them to tidy their rooms before we start school. Or, keep them in on Saturday until it is done. They are old enoguh to know what to do. They are also old enough to actually appreciate having a tidy room...they just dont have the discipline to do it themselves unasked, regularly, although they will at times. I have tried various chore systems. I am good for about a week, then I get slack. I do pick up after them sometimes and confiscate their stuff for a while. We do fine them for leaving stuff around, or for not doing their chores. But in order to do that reasonably, they had to get an allowance. So in our case, the allowance is not for doing chores. But it is a source of income to give them fines when they DON'T do their chores.

I agree with magnesium (high amounts- epsom salts baths are a good way to get that), and Traumeel (and maybe arnica too!). It sounds a bit like my mum's fibromyalgia- is that what you have? She has been like that for years, but the pain shifts- it will be days or weeks in one spot more than others- then shift somewhere else. Drinking enough water? As in, 2 litres a day? (Not that I normally think that is quite necessary but in your case, water might help flush your system out). Can you access kava in the U.S.? Have you been to a naturopath or Traditional Chinese doctor? Poor thing. I hope you can find some relief, then find a way to deal with it forever. :grouphug:

I have never even heard the name before, but when I read it that is what I thought it must be- a conservative religious name.

1. Several pieces of dd16's beautiful artwork. 2. A map of the world 3. A large whiteboard covered in photographs 4. A little angel figurine 5. A collection of essential oils and a burner

We did what you are doing, for a few years. My kids loved all teh activities. FOr me, I woudl burn out rather easily, but I coudl see how happy it made them. I just got wiser with them. I didnt schedule any mornings if I coudl help it, so we had mornigns at home. I tried to keep one or two days a week with no activities. I basically kept weekends free. It was still a lot. But it does pass. Now my kids are almost15 and 16 and we do much less. Just a piano lesson, gymnastics (which is a great social outlet- its social gymnastics) and Venturers (the 14-17yo Scouts). We do not do any specifically homeschooling activities any more, although they have homeschool friends at gym and Vents. Take care of yourself. It is ok to say no. I did find my kids got more specific as they got older, and happily dropped things. I dont regret the busy-ness for those few years, but it was hard.

When it comes to things like that....dd16 is so used to people being "flaky" as we call it, since she is chairman of her Venturer unit and its hard to get anyone to respond to anything...she just knows to contact everyone individually if it is important to know numbers. For her 16th b'day party, she waited till just before the RSVP was due, then contacted those who hadn't contacted her. We needed to know specific numbers because it included a sit down dinner party. It turned out almost everyone was coming, they just had forgotten to say so. I agree it is partly because we tend to be overloaded. It doesn't mean we couldn't handle it better...I have been guilty of forgetting to RSVP myself...but sometimes when we have so many committments, its too easy to forget the human faces behind them. I tihnk it pays to phone them if they havent phoned you. People really do get so busy.

Mine are out on the river in a sailing competition.

mangoes corn chips- I have a seirous thing for them, best I dont go near them I like potato chips too in a bad way, but I rarely eat them I could always eat more avocado I have a spinach salad recipe that dd and I could eat a lot of- it's addictive olives crispy chicken skin and pork rind (and bacon rind)

What is "chilli" to you? Here in Australia we just call chilli, the chilli plant/fruit. Is it a spicy meal with beans vegies and chilli? Any vegies at all? Because from what I see, your day was full of carbs- cereal, cookie, pretzels and juice are carbs, and chilli may be high carbs too. Keep in mind WW varies slightly between countries, but its pretty similar. I am on 18 points, but I take an hour long walk which gives me another 2.5 points, which I often don't spend- or I save for going out for hot chocolate with dh one evening. You do need to spend your 19 points most days, or your body goes into starvartion mode and hoards its fat. There is a healthy eating guide on our Aussie WW points tracking page. You are meant to tick off each of these each day, if you can- 3 serves of dairy, 2 of fruit, 6 vegetables, 8 liquids, 2 lean protein, 3 healthy fats, and only 1 wholegrain. So...it seems to me they ARE trying to minimise the carbs AND make sure you are eating sufficient fat. Of course, one serve of healthy fat is only 1 tsp. Here is what I am typically eating: Breakfast- one slice of healthy wholemeal bread, 1 tbs cottage cheese, one egg soft boiled, salt, 2 cups of tea- I use stevia to sweeten- and a total of 1/2 cup low fat milk in my tea. Some days, a glass of fresh orange juice. With the orange juice- thats 5 points. Lunches 6 points- Taco soup- 1 serve tomato /bean/chilli soup, 25gms corn chips, 20gms grated cheese, 1 tbs light sour cream 6.5 points- wholemeal pasta (90gms dry), pesto (homemade, 1 tbs), salad. 3.5 points- double serve of vegetable soup, 40gms avocado, salad. 6 points- 1 cup cooked sweet potato, 1 small can tuna, 50gms avocado, vinaigrette 4 points- 2 serves of chickpea and vegetable patties with tomato salsa Dinners: 7 points- small piece of salmon, mashed potatoes, peas, salad 3 points- lentil pattie, salad 7 points- chicken curry, basmati raice 5 points- vegetarian spagghetti bolognaise (sauce is no points) with cheese. Snacks- a small mango or other fruit, one anzac biscuit, piece of dark chocolate. One of my favourite snacks is 1 cup of frozen blueberries for only half a point. If I am hungry, blueberries and no fat organic yoghurt is a low point snack- or meal. Does that give you an idea? Diet drinks are bad for you- and not good for your weight either. Drink water or dilute juices or herbal teas. I am going into summer here so I am eating more salad. If I were going into winter as you are I would eat more steamed/baked vegies and I would find some way of eating them that appealed to me- for me it might be some sort of sauce made from Braggs (or soy sauce) and ginger and garlic. And/or cottage cheese. For me, adding sufficient salt and spices tends to compensate somewhat for the lack of flavour that fat adds.

This issue always brings up for me....well, how DO we want to live? We look at the extremes, we see people struggling to survive, sacrificing so much to give their kids an education, a chance at a life better than a subsistant one. Even in our own wealthier cultures, we value hard work, as if work for its own sake has deeply intrinsic value. What I see is that we need to get smarter, not work harder. We have the technology. We can feed everyone. We can live well. Not everyone can live with the consumeristic greed we have been reared to take for granted...but there is enough for everyone. Maybe we need to work less, so everyone can do some work. Maybe that would mean we couldn't afford a mansion and private schools and lots of stuff. But it might mean we spend more time with each other because everyone wouldnt be working so darned hard. I was shocked by the thread here where so many said their dhs worked so many hours a day. Are we not already in some sort of hell, that we need to work so hard- that so many kids only see their dads for brief minutes per day? I dont buy into the whole work ethic thing, myself. Work for its own sake is not healthy, not valuable. What are we doing? Meaningful work? We need to rethink how we want to live, our deeper values,and start living that way to the best of our ability, not wait for things to change around us, because they won't. If we work harder to keep up with the 3rd world who are working their butts off to be like us...we just go around in circle. We need to get off the merry go round and look at quality of life first. And that has a lot less to do with money than we like to think. We could learn a lot from the east, as they are learning from us. Balance.

I completely understand your confusion. I am on Weight Watchers also at the moment, and I have been examining this issue for a while...because on Weight Watchers, I do lose weight, wheras on a raw food diet (with avocado and coconut), I dont. Where I am sitting with it at the moment is...too many calories is too many calories. If you are a healthy weight, its great to eat plenty of healthy fats. And yes they do sustain you longer, our brains need them etc. It is great there is a movement away from trans fats and towards whole foods with their natural fats. But if you are overweight, there seems to be 2 different ways to lose weight. Restrict carbs, or restrict fat. I have tried restricting carbs to very low- I feel awful. But it works for many because they can eat a lot of fat, which sustains them. But...for many, overloading the liver with even healthy fats, makes the whole system sluggish. It is good for the liver to have a break from eating fats now and then. In natural cultures, there would often be a virtual fast period at the end of winter/early spring. The body gets a break from digesting heavy foods. I love fat. I enjoy my avocado, my coconuts, my whole raw milk. I eat healthy foods. However....my weight was creeping up and I didnt like it. I tried going mostly raw- everyone says the weight drops off them- not me. Eventually I realised...I was eating too much fat. Too much healthy fat. Just too much food, basically. My body was telling me that. I dont eat a lot of carbs, no sugar at all, so it wasnt that. I agree we need to eat fats, and that the low fat fad of the last few decades has done more harm than good. It has led to low fat diet foods which are high in both natural and artificial sugars. We tend to take things out of context- or at least, manufaturers will exploit official health directives out of context. It's not healthy to eat low fat crap food, full stop. Being low fat doesn't stop it being crap. And trans fats are poison. On Weight Watchers...you can eat really healthy. I do. The way to "fill up" is to eat a lot of vegetables. But it is always a wake up call as to how much food I need to eat. No where near as much as I actually do eat :) I estimate that before WW I was eating about twice the calories as WW puts me on. I love food and I have a metabolism that can eat a fair amount up to a point...then my weight creeps up. So...I wouldn't focus on low fat OR low sugar with WW. Some days you might crave some fat. Others, some sugar. I can satisfy my sugar cravings with a home made bliss ball or a date or a small mango. I will put 1/4 of an avocado in my salad instead of eating a whole one over the day :) . Mostly, though, I would focus on filling up with vegetables, and just not buying anything processed. The only WW thing I buy is cottage cheese, which I put on my toast instead of butter, for my morning egg on toast. Once I lose another kg or two I will go on maintenance and add in butter and coconut oil and my home made raw chocolates etc. Meanwhile....I am re-training myself to not eat so. much. food. It's just a reality check for me and I quite enjoy the whole process.

Yes, because of dh's line of work, actually. He is a therapist and often gets women transfering onto him and adoring him and he decided having a wedding photo in obvious view was a good idea. Our official wedding photo however is a picture of one of each of our feet. I have a beautifully henna painted foot, and he has a wedding ring on his foot (with carpe diem engraved on it).

Thats a good one! I recently lost the instruction manual to our dishwasher. Dh wanted it and I could not find it where I normally keep such things. So I found it online. Dh wanted me to PRINT IT OUT so that I could put it in the drawer with the other manuals. It took me a few minutes to convince him that if I saved one on my computer, and he saved one on his computer, and we saved one in the back up hard drive...even if we could never find it online again (unlikely) we would still have a copy whenever we needed it to refer to- and I didnt need to use precious paper and ink. He reluctantly agreed :) I tihnk instruction manuals make him feel secure, the way....lots of curricula makes me feel I must be a good homeschooler :)

Yes, I have an allergy to the preservatives they put in wines. Its not the wine itself. Cheap wine has given me asthma, and I am not even asthmatic. Fortunately I dont drink much. If I rarely buy wine, I buy stuff without preservatives (organic usually). But that's less than once a year.

Much of the anti vaccination debate rests on the fact that it isnt vaccinations which have prevented these diseases in modern times. It is the modern times themselves- the improvement in hygeine. If it was the vaccinations, then yes, the "greater good" might be served by vaccinating the masses and accepting the minority of devastating side effects. That is the official line, of course. But considering the anti vaccers that I know do not believe it is vaccinations that have caused the reduction in these illnesses....according to their beliefs (and I have seen the studies, but still refuse to draw conclusions either way), they are not behaving in a way that is against the greater good for the majority. They believe it would be better if no one was vaccinated. You may not disagree with their conclusions, if you believe what the proponents of vaccinations promote- but hopefully you can see that from their perspective, they ARE doing the right thing, according the information THEY have read and believed.

I really think cleaners and such are where we can get realyly hung up. They don't actually do the cleaning- you do. Just use whatever you have. I prefer low impact environmental cleaners but do have a bleach based cleaner for the shower which is used ocasionally. Other than that...its vinegar for the toilet and one simple orange oil based spray bottle for everything else- kitchen and bathrooms. Laundry- I wash by the person. That way I skip a whole laundry job- sorting. I have an abundance of wash baskets and everyone has one in their bedrooms and puts their own dirty clothes in them. Then either they, or I, do a wash when the basket is full- about once a week per person. We wash on cold and just wash everything together unless there is a special item we know runs or is white. I will do loads of towels or sheets separately about once a week. We hang on racks in the laundry- don't even have a dryer. Each rack will hold about one load of washing, and there are 3 racks. In winter, clothes take 2 days to dry. in summer- 1. There are 4 of us and laundry works well here. Everyone is responsible for their own clothes (since about age 12) but I do supervise and oversee. I go and gather towels about once a week.

My skin is excellent. I do not use soap, any cleansers, scrubs, or even a washcloth. Just water. Every day. Plus a natural moisturiser when I am dry. That's it. Maybe every few months I play with lotions, potions and scrubs for fun but I really think there is a lot of marketing around all such things and they don't seem to be necessary at all.

Not everyone thinks quite like that. I consider all the ramifications and the "greater good" when I make decisions. It's not actually selfish to do what one truly believes is best for one's kids. That *is* for the ultimate good, to the extent that any of us could possibly judge what the greater good is, which is rather presumptuous anyway. A large dose of tolerance for other peoples' best intentions would go a long way on issues like this. No one is deliberately being selfish.