Well, I can but I am sure I did *not* do this correctly. Thanks so much for all of your suggestions. I saw this after we finished so I didn't have a chance to apply them unfortunately. However, the really weird thing was that he did seem to follow the instructions for step two. He just naturally wrote it differently. Because of this it was not possible to piece together and he just wound up writing something new from scratch. What I wound up doing was letting him eat and run around and then we curled up and read a little of the Kane book and I just let him do it his way. What he came up with after this was much better than his first try. He has gone from essentially not being able to write to actually writing, which is really excellent. But he still sometimes gets bogged down and confused by sequential instruction. Things that help other kids sometimes confuse him. Anyhow thanks for your suggestions and for asking questions about this. Teaching writing is so difficult! It's really awesome to have support. And big thanks to Susan for all of your help. I'll go post what he came up with on the writing thread.

Lesson 23 again... My son is really struggling in adding narrative to his analysis. His analysis didn't contain much narrative (not like the examples in the book). His focus in the second paragraph was on the similarities of Rikki and Nag (both have something to protect both are fighters with similar tactics, both are smart etc.). The problem is the first paragraph doesn't match with the second and just tagging on a narrative introduction makes it look like a bad collage. Is there a way to fix this, should I bother? The idea that Nag and Rikki are similar is just dropped in the second paragraph out of the blue. His writing (at this point) resembles a picasso. It is all pasted together. I think he might do better with a traditional essay format but I really don't know what I am doing so I have to ask (in the small voice of piglet) "help, help"

Well my son takes an eternity to write, so this assignment will most certainly take 2 days. I doubt we'll get to step 3 till tomorrow. But I did go back an look at the teachers guide. I think that all you want from the narrative summary is one sentence which will set the scene for the final essay. And the rest will be analysis. But of course we haven't actually done it yet and I often change my mind about things after we dived in. Best of luck. :001_smile:

Hey we are doing that day right now.:D I just assumed that the narrative summary is the first paragraph and the analysis follows. The teachers guide says 2-3 paragraphs and the student guide says 3 (and then I suppose 2 we aren't up to step 3 yet). I am assuming this was just an editing mistake (not sure if they ultimately wanted 2 or 3 or if either would be ok). We aren't done yet but I figured I'd pop in and say hi and see if any other advice follows. ETA: My son is just about completing step one and I realize that I must have been mistaken as what he has produced is far too long and cumbersome to be an opening paragraph for an essay (though it is a pretty good narrative summary). Just starting step 2...

My son and I were talking about this just the other day. He found the pattern himself but he described it differently. 12*12 =144 13* 13 = 12*12 + (12 *2 +1) Which comes when you foil it out (12+1) (12+1) = 12 * 12 + 12*1 +12*1 +1*1 It only works if you know the square before it. However you can also do it for things like 19 by writing it as (20-1) (20-1) = 400 -40+1 =361

I love MEP so much that I might even pass on purchasing Beast Academy. (Though I have to admit that series is tempting). The OP said she was weak in math. I would be very hesitant to recommend it for a parent who doesn't generally feel comfortable with math. I tend not to recommend it to people for just that reason. I would wholeheartedly recommend it to a math geek mom who wants to share a love of math with her kids though.

The sequences are very different. I would avoid trying to teach anything new while she is doing the og tutoring. Go slow. Show it to her tutor and ask if the pages you are going to have her work on would be confusing. I think it could be done. If you start and she gets frustrated or confused, back off and try again when she is more confident.

:grouphug: We are all just trying to figure it out for our kids. I'd like to chime in as another one who "raced ahead to algebra" even skipping CWP and it was the most awesomist thing I did. Not to say that CWP and IP is not a great thing for kids to do. I'll probably make DD do them before going on to AOPS. (or maybe not depends on how great beast academy turns out to be) Actually I didn't do algebra first. We started first with Inro to Probability and Counting. My son went from being pretty good at math and liking it ok to it being his reason for waking up in the morning and his life's quest. He would talk to his math book he was so happy. It was the cutest thing in the world and a sure sign that it was a good fit. Every kid is different. Some will need the extra practice and repetition. Also different kids have a different sequence for what they need to learn. My son had to figure out arithmetic by using Algebra. It was kind of the other way around from most kids. People with kids like this are NOT the norm. But we do exist. So yes of course you have to be the own judge of what kind of kid you actually have. There are many great ways to learn math. It's not necessarily better to do it all backwards and turned around the way my son did. But it was better for him. That's all that really matters.

Well my DS is like this. I only interfere if I think he might not be getting enough practice in other subjects. If left on his own he'll do 3-4 hours of math in the morning and this is what he really loves. Sometimes I just insist he starts with writing because, you know, mathematicians need to be able to write too. Anyhow I wouldn't worry about getting too far ahead too quickly. There really is a huge boatload of depth that they can pursue. DS has been through all of the AOPS intro books and has been working on his own through the elements of mathematics curriculum. Also spent a considerable time working on the mathpath qt this past month. There really is a ton of math between algebra and calculus. You just have to hunt it out. Elementary math is only a little interesting so breezing through it is usually the right thing to do. As long as she understands what she is doing and she is happy she is right on track. I think it would be possible to breeze through the math sequence too quickly but you don't have to. There are hundreds of interesting detours along the way. Oh and another thing to remember is they slow down when the math gets hard enough. This is a great relief. You can actually keep a curriculum for a whole year (or so). It's awesome. BTW I don't know why people worry about gaps and who gets to decide what a gap is anyway. At least I wouldn't worry about it with a GT kid. They are so far ahead of grade level that it really doesn't matter what their learning sequence is. At least that has been my experience.

Yes. I have been working ft lately so I have had almost no time to pop in on this board but the past few comments made me...:lol:

Well really it's the same thing. Except the one that you originally wrote is 4+6+3 The subtraction part is just explaining why it works. It's kind of long and wordy but it's the same math.

My son hasn't been diagnosed as spectrum but is SN and has rhythm-singing issues that I suspect are part of his LD (expressive language difficulties) When he was little I used to jump on a trampoline and sing nursery rhymes with him. This was very helpful for him learning to keep a steady beat. Also on walks I sometimes would break into song and we'd march or skip (much later) or hop or do some other movement. I always would keep it fun, no stress or pressure. As far as matching pitch my son can (kind of) match pitch now, but not consistently. As a kid he was essentially monotone. He plays an instrument and I think this is a great way to encourage a child who is having trouble singing to be musical. He has the music inside, it's just hard for him to get it out. After years and years of playing an instrument he (once and a while) actually sounds like he is singing the correct melody. This is kind of cool, but even if it never happened it wouldn't be the end of the world. You can still give a child a music education even if they can't sing. I find it pretty similar to teaching him writing. He has a world of knowledge in his head but getting it on paper takes baby step after baby step. You keep letting him read Dickens and write the Three Little Pigs. No need to worry and like other posters have said there are millions of functioning adults who can't sing and dance so if that ability never fully blooms it will be OK.

I have to tell you what I tell all my students. "No one ever regrets sticking with an instrument." I doubt it will seriously hurt her college aps if she drops band. However if she sticks with it it will help. My advice would be if she really hates to practice and doesn't like band then, ok, drop it. However, if you can convince her to stick with it, then keep it. It not only is a great extra curricular activity, but learning music can be a very enriching life long endeavor. Putting a few more years in before she quits will do more than boost her college aps. I would never force a kid to stick with music if they really want to quit. But I would definitely try to convince them to keep it up as long as possible. I usually have students practice at least 30 minutes a day but often you can get by on 15-20 minutes in a pinch as long as it's consistent. I would try this first before you drop it completely. If it really is too much then don't hesitate. Sheesh competitive swimming is a big deal so don't feel guilty or anything. Still, I can't help but encourage you to keep trying.

If you can devote 30-45 minutes 5-6 days a week, I would suggest an instrument. Whatever suits your fancy. Cello? Flute? It doesn't matter. The world is your oyster of course it could be anything. Good luck!

Yes! I would just chat with my son about what he's reading. For expressive language practice, I would have him tell me what he's learning. To explain some mathematical concept or even a game. He has spent hours trying to teach me the rules of Magic. It's a fun game we play because I almost always stop listening and he tries to catch me. He really has to be succinct and engaging to keep my attention. I found casual interaction to be way less stressful and more productive for eliciting language from my son. So anyhow after years of this (and Barton) we picked up WWS and he is doing just fine. So I think waiting on narration also helps. All of the sudden he can actually do it. My son is 13. We just started with narration this year.

Crimson, I am right there with you. I love WWS but with limited curriculum dollars I may not get the teachers guide for DS (8th grader). I am fairly positive I'll need it when I use it with DD though since she will be younger and will need more help. DS is completing the assignments with ease :001_smile: They are so well crafted. Honestly he is only needing a few mechanical edits. I think part of this is his age and that he is a reader. I don't know. I can see how the IG could be indispensable for some. I just wanted to say that I don't think you are crazy for considering this. I have still not made up my mind 100% there are some good arguments (posted here) for how much the IG adds. On the other hand since I am fairly sure I'll need the IG for DD I may just go ahead and buy it now as an "investment". Christmas presents, curriculum, christmas, curriculum....tough choices kwim?:tongue_smilie:

I love MEP. You should not be afraid to accelerate a kid who gets math right away. I would also check out "Beast Academy" when it becomes available. I really like MEP but I skipped reception with DD and went straight to the middle of 1. With GT kids you don't always need to do every page. You can do a few pages and then skip ahead when they are ready. Try skipping ahead 10-20 pages and see if that's ok, keep doing this until you find his spot. MEP would have been too much writing for my older though. Singapore worked better for him since he didn't really have the ability to put pencil to paper that DD has.

Thanks Kathy!

Hey, can I ask a question of you folks? Where do you take these tests? How do you find a local place where your kids can participate? Thanks!

My son took this class. It's a great class. I don't think it expands upon the book. It is different though. Different problems, challenge sets and you get someone reading and commenting on your child's math, which is nice.

http://math.buffalostate.edu/~giambrtm/MAT501/Projmath/Project_Mathematics%21.html This has videos and pdfs of the chapters. And the same site some bits from "Elements of Mathematics" which my son loves. If you poke around on it there are a few cool things. http://math.buffalostate.edu/~giambrtm/MAT501/Chp1/operations.htm You have a great list so far! I'd add competition math. AMC 8 that type of thing might be fun for him. Zome Geometry and EIMACS logic for mathematics materials

:cheers2: I love this.

Now I will always picture you in a football uniform.:) Something tells me that you did ok in spite of your dismal education. And you were identified. So, you know, even when kids are identified it's not like they get that much. Avoiding failure and getting into a good school is usually the most we can expect. And of course there's always sports and music. Or at least there used to be.

Hmmm... this seems like a can of worms that I am opening. I actually agree with quite a bit of what you are saying. I think it is important to teach our kids to function of course and yes. And as an educator I have seen these kids. I have an alpha wolf thing with my son. If I need him to deal with something unpleasant he will. I have always based our relationship on give and take. I give him opportunities to do what he loves, to work deeply and intensely with content. I ask in return that he learns flexibility. So I really support the idea that we should expect our students to be able to cope with worldly (and/or trivial) things. However, in order to do this it is important to recognize that this is not necessarily easy or pleasant. Too much of this too early can squash a kid, just as none of this could encourage them to be arrogant. I think it is so hard to make judgments across the board on this. I know the kid you are talking about, so I am not saying these kids don't exist. I just know that this attitude would not have worked with DS. And I have gotten standard output from him. So, I know that with my kid something else was more effective. I am not sure I can generalize this to anyone else. I am positive that there are kids that you describe out there. I have seen them. However, I really did have to modify output expectations for years with my child. He is 2e so you can take that into consideration. I think PG kids have issues too. You know a kid who can do trigonometry but needs mommy's help writing it down because he is only 6. This kid I would allow to dictate. While at the same time making sure you give him the skills to do it on his own. You have to do both. It's like training wheels. You don't let a kid ride a bike with training wheels forever but some kids need them in the beginning. But yeah we were talking about different things. I was just saying that the score on your typical standardized test isn't going to correlate that well with your gifted population. Not so much that they won't be able to learn how to deal with those tests or should be exempted from them. I really really really hate standardized tests but I make my child do them every year for this reason. It's a skill he needs to learn so I bit my lip and tell him to take the test.

DS is a pretty slow reader (I would say maybe 30% slower than me. Not too bad) But he has excellent comprehension and reads at a very high level. So I don't think this is universally true. Best of luck with this. I hope it goes well and you get some good information and helpful suggestions. If it goes against your mommy intuition, I would ignore this advice. I am a little irked on your behalf. Like we "cause" our kids problems. Sheesh. I work too hard to tell me that everything is all my fault, and I suspect you do too. With a 2e kids it's pretty easy to have unrealistic expectations though. Like when my son could multiply 3 digit numbers in his head and I asked him to write 2+3=5 and he melted down in tears because concentrating on writing 5 he got confused and wrote 2+3=6 instead. So, my expectations really were unrealistic. But, you know, I didn't cause this. So maybe unrealistic expectations but no no no no no no no, that is not the problem, it is the symptom of a greater problem. Don't ever let anyone say that YOU are the problem. You have potential to be the solution, just because you haven't found a perfect solution yet, does not mean that you are the problem. We live, we learn, we adjust. Stay strong and know that you are doing great work. I hope you get answers and great advice. Let us know what you find out.