Yes, that was my assumption too. IQ tests are a whole different animal. Not a perfect measure but a reasonable measure of G (depending on the specific test, experience of the tester etc.)

Interesting. I have always encountered the opposite stereotype. The kid taking apart the microwave in the corner is often pegged as a sociopath. I think it's great that your school is bringing these kids in the fold. After all the bright high achieving kids are already doing really well. It's the kids that are failing in spite of there ability or because of their ability that need to be identified. It's easy to spot the valedictorian. That's not to say that we should ignore the captain of the football team who gets straight As or anything. But I think those kids are usually supported and celebrated by their communities because their gifts are apparent.

I think it is more complex than this. My son can and does take multiple choice tests but it is so much harder for him to take the grade 7 STAR test than to do problems from the AOPS Intro to Geometry Text. He gets good scores and all but you wouldn't believe how difficult it is for him. It's not so much a question of whether or not he can do it, it's a question of whether this is a good or accurate measure of what our children can do. Many gifted kids do very poorly in schools and fall through the cracks. As homeschoolers we are fortunate to have other ways to meet the needs of our bright kids. So fortunately it isn't as much of an issue for us. We are lucky. I don't think anyone is saying our kids can't take multiple choice tests, just that for many GT kids this type of testing is not an accurate measure of "G". Especially if it is at grade level.

Everything I have read about the highly gifted indicates that many of them process slower. This is not meant to say that a few gifted students can't do both. Perhaps even many can. But I have not read anything to indicate that quick processing correlates strongly to giftedness. http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/2010/09/most-creative-brains-are-slow.html http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/2006/06/blessings-and-burdens-of-high-iq.html

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=310976&highlight=space+distance+words+wws

I wish.:tongue_smilie: My son is extremely precocious but at 13 I still have to remind him to put his book down when he picks up a hot pan from the stove. I think common sense is a very desirable thing to have but it is not the same thing as intelligence. A) might be correct in modulo7 or something B) could right be in an another dimension or possibly in Swahili. C) could be right but probably isn't D) looks trivial so it can't be right. I just can't figure out which one too choose. Ow, something's burning me.:lol:

Lord of the Flies

Hey, check it out. The Dyslexic Advantage webpage links to this thread. I haven't read their thread yet but there is a book discussion over at the DA site. Here is is... http://dyslexicadvantage.com/group/dyslexic-advantage?xg_source=activity I am off to go read it now. :auto: It seems like a good place to go ask questions of the Eides...

My son was talking to me about this part in the book. He said something like it might be hard to remember the word dog but he could remember dug which was from the original icelandic tongue which was incorporated into viking language which traveled from germany to england. And there is there is hound from hund which is from a indo european language. And then he went into this joke about how dog reminds him of the creek next to our house because it is "dug". So I am not sure I need to encourage flexibility, it is just there. This is why multiple choice tests are hard for him. Interestingly, though I am not dyslexic I have a similar problem with seeing how more than one answer could be right. He, however, usually can see how ALL of the answers are right. Just like the fitting in of every puzzle piece. You just don't know if it might change shape and fit. On the one hand I think this skill should be nurtured. On the other, I feel it is my job to teach coping skills (in a world full of boxes, forms and hoops) It's like that song "you gotta know when to hold em'/know when to fold em'/know when to walk away/ know when to run" I'd like him to be able to fill out the form if he needs to. Or conversely to turn the form into a paper hat if it is appropriate.

That was how I interpreted it as well. I jumped in and did intervention with my son but some things just didn't come together until just recently. This year writing is happening and it is just fantastic. It gives me hope that somethings may come around eventually (I kind of see that happening this year and I think it is fantastic). This takes me back to the idea of "hitting a wall". You can hit a wall at 7 or 8 but that wall might not be the final wall. Or it might disintegrate in a few years. That's what I am finding. It's tricky to know what is developmental and what needs remediation. I think you just have to do what you can and be in the moment and not worry too much about the future. This is another thing that LD and GT has in common. It's hard to predict where our kids are actually headed and thinking too much about "the future" can be perplexing. So it's difficult to dice apart the GT issues and the LD issues. But the gist I am getting from DS is that they might be one and the same. That is so interesting to me, because it is always how it seemed. His inability to do anything by rote is really quite a blessing. He has a deeper and more profound understanding of things than I ever had. Elizabeth...you asked about DS's DX and I don't have one (in spite of how I encourage others to do this). I am without a doubt sure he is dyslexic. It's familial and he fits the profile to a T. Whether I will be able to get a DX of dyslexia at this point is questionable. He spells and reads on grade level. It's timing and recall that he still struggles with. I am trying to get something on paper for him so he can have extra time on tests. He really needs it. He has the whole list of dyslexic signs. Couldn't tie his shoes. Said Mow Lawner until he was 7. Couldn't spell or write without Barton. Doesn't memorize rote. His speech is still noticeably different. People say he speaks with a "british accent". He also has some aspie-like qualities but not really. Intensity mostly. "I stubbed my toe it's the end of the world" And I sometimes have to be pretty explicit with social skills (remind him to remember peoples names and stuff). Again, I don't know how much of this is GT or LD or blah blah blah. And the label doesn't really matter too much at this point. At 7 or 8 it might have been helpful if I had knowledgeable people in my area. Ha. I wish! Oh well, I feel as if I did a pretty decent job considering I had no help whatsoever. :tongue_smilie:

Wow, yay that's great news. FWIW it's as long as it would take my DS. 4 paragraphs would definitely take a week. Yay for your daughter getting it done. I figure whatever it takes. Just to get it out. I can relate to that, my son is an excellent writer in his own mind. Even getting to the point where he could do 4 paragraphs in 6 hours was pretty huge for him. It used to be one paragraph a week or a sentence a week. It's been a long haul to get him to this point. I have got to go get my hands on that book. DS is almost done.

:ack2: I homeschool through a charter too. Luckily mine is pretty hands off. I try to avoid talking to the teachers though because I often get ridiculous comments. A teacher last year was worried when my son reported having difficulty with tedious math (long division etc.) she was giving me this big thing about how we needed to address this. I had to remind her that he had a perfect score on his tests the previous year and he has completed high school geometry in the 7th grade. I swear these people are like mice in a wheel. I mean, come on, just because my 7 year old child is testing at the 8th grade level, that doesn't mean we need to fill in standard 5.17 for fear that he might have gaps. Sheesh. It does frustrate me that there seem to be so few people who actually have any idea what they are talking about. I have ached for "expert advice" and other than friendly moms like you and the vast internet I often feel pretty alone. Thank god for the internet though, right?

I get what you meant. When DS was little everything felt like "pushing". He could multiply 3 digit numbers in his head but writing 2+2 on paper got tears. Happily he is now writing 5 pages of math a day. Whew. I think expectations do need to be adjusted. I just don't think that adjusting them necessarily means that you have to do it forever. I think you just have to go with what your child is developmentally ready for. If that means they don't write a 5 paragraph essay at the end of 8th grade, then I don't think it's a very big deal. Maybe they won't ever be able to do this. However you don't really know unless you have a little time machine. "Inch by inch row by row..." It does make it tough to plan years in advance, I have found that I really have to be "in the moment" with where my son is. I never know how long something is going to take. Sometimes he can grok a typical "years worth of material" in a day and sometimes it's the reverse a small concept takes all year for him to get. I just never know.

I haven't gotten to this point. My son is a VERY strong reader and actually a pretty decent writer if you give him five million years to write. The biggest accommodation I give my son is I reduce the volume of written work expected. For years he did teaching company courses before he was ready to read and write about things. It kept his interest and excitement alive while his skills were catching up. I would think pushing is generally a bad idea but I do gently encourage skill development. If he were more severely dyslexic I would adapt accordingly. I think once your child is hitting a wall it might be time to change directions and perhaps go around the corner. I keep skill work short and daily. It used to be 10 minutes when he was little. I thought" anyone can do anything for 10 minutes". We gradually increased it. Now I would say he works on skills 45 minutes to an hour. He has made incredible strides in his writing this year so we haven't found the wall yet. Perhaps this is because I required such little written output in the elementary years. He's in 8th grade now and it seems he is taking a developmental leap right now. I didn't bother forcing my son to memorize his times tables. It was silly and he couldn't. He is past geometry and still doesn't have them memorized. He just reasons them out "really fast". You wouldn't be able to tell the difference unless you asked him. He can't memorize random facts. I think there might have been some of these "walls" if I had been more linear in my teaching. I am fairly fluid which has always been a pretty good fit for my son.

Indeed, however there are significant hoops that you need to jump through in the undergrad years. Once he gets through those he'll be fine. He needs to be about 4 years ahead of anything conventional (like Calculus) so I'll be homeschooling college (or at least college math) for the high school years. I don't mind and as much as my son is an "inconvenience" he is a great joy.

Oh he's not at all upset about this. He is pretty matter of fact about his strengths and weaknesses. He's all ego and doesn't frustrate or feel sorry for himself easily. (or rather he is only very sensitive about a few idiosyncratic things) For example DS is a really good musician but he just doesn't have a great talent. Does that mean he is not "good" at it. Absolutely not. He is probably the best middle school aged musician I have ever worked with. He approaches it intelligently and is a hard worker. It's just not his gift. He is this way with spacial things too. I always puzzle over this because in some ways he is very much a VSL but in other ways he just has no spacial sense. I wonder if he would have spacial reasoning in an other dimension. Probably. He's that sort of kid. Hard to describe. But DS is so talented in other areas that he isn't fazed by lack of rhythmical sense or spacial disorganization. He finds ways to compensate. You should see the way he thinks about geometry. It's bizarre. He does this abstract mathematical ju jitso and somehow comes up with a solution in spite of a relative lack of visual reasoning. So the book is not bumming him out at all. He is really into it. Identifying his weaknesses has always helped him become more confident. Years ago when I started to think he might be dyslexic I showed him a list of symptoms and he giggled with glee "that's me for sure".

Once again our children are twins.:) When my son was little I remember he used to take hours to do a puzzle because he absolutely had to put each piece in every spot, "just in case". He's like that now with academics, even math which he is gifted in. He has to think about the wrong ways just as much as the right. It makes multiple choice testing torture for him. He could come up with a pretty good argument for every choice most of the time. When he learned Geometry he really *wanted* to switch the x and y axis. As much as I encourage and celebrate his special way of thinking I also have taught him to submit to my dominant authority on this:D. It is a trust thing. He trusts me. We have built up a great trust over the years and once and awhile I ask him to do that which is uncomfortable for him. For example calling the x axis the y axis was just non negotiable. Not that I have anything invested in it being the x axis it's just that I only have limited energy. KWIM? I think the balance we have is that he can be creative till the cows come home but I ask him to pick his battles and to try to be conventional when it isn't such a big deal. Similarly I don't ask him to do too many things that are torture for him. I don't have him do pages of long division etc. I have him take one set of standardized tests a year (I contemplate opting out of these for ethical reasons but I think the practice is probably good for him). I figure one day he'll have to take the SAT or tests in college and I'd rather have his first experiences with this type of frustration be at home with an emotional safety net near by. I hope this all doesn't sound too mean. My son doesn't put up with discomfort too well, almost a sensory thing. I sometimes feel that I am an academic OT. So with DA I got through the first 3 chapters and DS swiped the book and hasn't given it back yet. I have gotten the cliffs notes version as he is telling me all about it. He is through the M, I and N sections. He says he has all the bad things of an M but only a little of the good (anyone have a take on this?). He is clearly a very strong I and a very strong N. I am still waiting to hear about D. It's nice to hear about the book in this way as I was also a bit frustrated with the writing. I am ADD lite. Get to the point already. Very prone to skimming. :party: Yay, for Karenanne coming back to join us. You have been missed.

I just got mine in the mail today. I'll be back after I have a chance to look at it.:001_smile:

Just to say hi and :grouphug: and agree with both answers. You could either do something different for a little while (like A and P which is pretty easy to use and can be a break from Barton) or slow down, do some review and talk to Susan Barton who is really helpful. I'd think about what your child's strengths are and work in that way. My child is very auditory so when he has a word that he is not getting, I spell it to him, he spells it back to me, and then he writes it down. SB has more visual and kinesthetic recommendations in her book which are perhaps more commonly helpful for other dyslexic children. My son doesn't learn that way so I do it a little differently. Apples and Pears is a refreshing break. I took a year off Barton (after level 6) and had DS work through level C and D. It has a very different way of presenting spelling. I think it really helped DS he has since progressed pretty quickly through the Barton levels (he is on level 9 now, almost done...yay). I was told by the Barton coordinator at my charter school that most kids don't get this far at our school. Most get hung up at level 7 or so. It is a lot of information. It will take time and I think it is ok if you don't conquer this mountain over night. One other thing, don't fret too much about spelling mistakes in work other than Barton. DS makes WAY MORE spelling mistakes in his writing than he does when doing a lesson. It is absolutely normal. They are thinking about other things and incorporating spelling into day to day writing is so much harder. Be persistant, it will come. If she is having trouble with Barton Spelling then review, switch gears etc. If she is having trouble spelling in her other work, don't worry. That will come in time, with practice. It just takes longer. When DS makes mistakes in his "other work" I either fix it for him (and tell him what I am doing) or have him fix it himself. It depends on whether or not I think he should be able to spell that work. If it's a tough word, I just fix it, if it's "their/they're,there", or something of that sort, I make him do it since he should know this by now. I don't get upset or anything I just hand him a pencil and say "here, fix this, kid" Hang in there and keep up the good work.

I would say the arts are the focus of our homeschool, particularly music. I am a music teacher and I have been pretty inspired by Reggio Emilia for the early elementary grades. When the kids were little we would sing and dance and play and kind of just weave music into our daily life. I taught them a little solfege (because I can) though formal instruction was pretty minimal. Both of my children insisted that I teach them an instrument at a ridiculously young age (6). My son was WAY too small for a clarinet, but I got him one and showed him how to blow. You can adjust hand position and play around with just the top hand. When my daughter turned 6 and decided it was her turn, I decided that she had to learn an instrument that she was big enough for. So I got her a cornet. Goodness gracious this little girl is amazing. She goes at the pace of my middle school boys. I just started learning the flute (probably my weakest instrument) and we play trios together whenever we have time. 3-4 days a week. It's the most awesome part of my homeschool life. Here are some things that inspired me for early childhood ed. First Mark Turner who as a very free form style with kids, weaving creativity and literacy into his lessons. http://www.faculty.sfasu.edu/turnermark1/acece/ec-music/model-lessons.html (Unfortunately the plug in on this page is out of date, I'll edit this if I can figure out how to get it to work) Next some general literacy activities that are early elementary appropriate. First Wendy Vallerio (you have to scroll to the bottom). She's giving a presentation to elementary school teachers. http://www.allianceamm.org/resources_elem_Gordon.html Here's a piano lesson my Marilyn Lowe. She incorporates movement in her lessons which is excellent rhythm training. http://www.musicmovesforpiano.com/video.asp Essentially these are skill based lessons. In music the skills are rhythm and melody. Teaching kids to keep a beat or sing in tune is a major skill for the elementary years. With art I strew. We have materials, books, atelier videos, mark kistler subscription. I am very unschoolish for art. My 6 year old is the type that will get a book on crafts, read all the instructions and do a craft on her own. My son did more art when he was younger. Math is more his "thing". Both children take a pottery class every week. Last year I did "Teaching Art with Books Kids Love" with my daughter. It was a winner. I have also worked on lessons from "Drawing with Children". This year we also have "How to Teach Art to Children". I do lessons when I have time. All three books are excellent. http://www.amazon.com/Teaching-Books-Kids-Love-Award-Winning/dp/1555914063 http://www.amazon.com/Drawing-Children-Mona-Brookes/dp/0874778271/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1318174196&sr=1-1 http://www.amazon.com/How-Teach-Art-Children-Grades/dp/1557998116/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1318174223&sr=1-3 I almost never play music for the kids unless they ask. I find a lot of sound in the background distracting. When my son was young, I was going to school and did a lot of listening for my music degree. Now my daughter will come in and choose a classics for kids episode and dance to it once or twice a week. So we do some listening, not a lot though. My kids know a handful of composers (Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Tchaicovski, Stravisnksi) But we never formally studied them. http://www.classicsforkids.com/music/ As an educator I tend to be on the side of applications first, then appreciation and history. That is also how I homeschool. We are big teaching company fans and will probably get into more formal history, appreciation and theory activities soon. However I don't regret time spent playing around and getting messy with music and art. I think it lays a super foundation for higher level skills. Re: John Williams When my son was 6 he loved Beethoven's 3rd. He took the themes and made up Star Wars characters to them. One theme was "Yoda" one was "Obi wan Kenobe" He would dance around the room with a light saber. It was pretty awesome.

Mine doesn't. As a matter of fact his Auditory Processing is above average. However his retrieval is terribly low. Maybe you are grouping these processes together. Input and processing is great but trying to get it out of him. Well, we work at it. It's getting better. His Auditory Memory is almost perfect. Hind of the auditory equivalent of photographic memory. A great blessing. It makes remediation much easier. Not easy, but easier. Of course it is only really perfect for contextual, global thinking things. Not as good with rote but better than visual. Definitely speech issues though. Anyhow, there is no way to know without an evaluation. My guy has "issues" but when testing there were no problems at all with processing, it's all retrieval issues and motor coordination.

I encourage my students to study for at least 2 years before they quit or change instruments. If it were a piano student I might encourage a change only if I thought the student would be more motivated by a group experience and then I would encourage them to switch to a wind instrument (band) or a string instrument (orchestra). I would certainly not have a student switch instruments if they didn't want to. When in doubt I encourage them to stay put until they have seen enough progress to decide on their own. The only exception to this would be a student who is having frustration because of a physical issue. A trumpet player with large lips might just do better on baritone. So in those cases, a switch can sometimes be helpful. If you really think an instrument switch would make a difference go with your gut. I tend to proceed with caution though when it comes to switching so early. After two years a student has a good feeling for whether they like it or not. At that point if they don't love it then maybe it's not their thing. I don't have many drop out at this point because they have gotten to the point where music is enjoyable. In the beginning it is tough and there is something to be said for staying the course. It is much like skills in the grammar years of WTM. Lessons vs. no lessons. Well that depends. I teach my own children but I am a music teacher (I never thought I'd be able to teach my own kids music though, funny huh? I don't mind teaching them things that I am totally unqualified to teach, silly me). What if YOU took lessons and had your ds come watch? I don't know, it might be fun for you and he might learn something. Or you could take back to back lessons. Just some ideas. I am learning a new instrument along with my kids. It is extremely fun. I encourage it. We sit around and play trios. Best part of the day. As a matter of fact I think it's just about time...:auto:

MEP is amazing! I don't have any experience with right start, but it seems like a great program. I would look at the samples and backtrack to where you are sure your child will be comfortable. Err on the side of "a little easy" because the problems are fairly challenging. When I was transitioning from Singapore I skipped around a little until I found my daughters level. Just print out a few pages at a time (rather than the whole chapter) until you figure out where you should be. The sequence is quite a bit different than other programs.

I just found the second reader for free on google books. (and a couple of others) :) http://books.google.com/books/about/Reading_literature.html?id=OuwRAAAAIAAJ Thanks for the reminder of this series. And yay for your kids (and you)

:iagree: