If you think that ADHD doesn't sound right then I think you should keep looking. My gifted dyslexic has similar issues with recall due to processing speed issues. Have you looked into dyscalculia. It's related to dyslexia but effects just math. As far as diet goes you might just give it a try. My son has been helped by removing gluten (gluten makes him "edgy") and he stopped dairy for awhile (now he sticks to yogurt and cheese since it seems to be mostly a lactose issue). This helped his asthma. Make sure you give it enough time (at least a month). If you are already feeding one child this way it doesn't seem like it would be too hard to try this with your other son.

I also have the books and DD really dug the free trial. But since I already have many of the books sitting around I will probably stick to those for awhile. I wonder if anyone around here has subscribed to the integers?

It seems to be working for me. Do you have their tech support email? techsupport@elementsofmathematics.com

Sorry, no. I only know about the little free excerpts on youtube and of course their other online stuff. (and the books) I think most of the info from the videos is available in the books. (Dyslexic Advantage, Mislabled Child). http://dyslexicadvantage.com/ http://eideneurolear...g.blogspot.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1BEXokDGhc The Eide's have helped me so much. Are you familiar with them?

Yes, and you can have both simultaneously (sensory craving, sensory avoiding) depending on the circumstances.

Dyslexia runs in families. With that kind of VIQ it is totally possible to have no reading problems at all. My son was reading Lord of the Rings in the second grade. "Luckily" he couldn't spell anything so it wasn't too hard for me to catch his dyslexia. Stealth dyslexia usually shows up as problems with writing and spelling. Reading is usually fine (more or less). Not being able to read nonsense words is very typical of dyslexics. Also you have big discrepencies in subtests and a pretty slow processing speed. Not that I am in any way an expert. It just looks familiar. Is writing a problem?

And a kid with SPD can look a lot like a spectrum kid. Have you had your child evaluated for dyslexia?

There are lots of 2e parents on this side too. So you might want to cross post.

I am in a very rural area so I just got lucky. I know the people that run giftedhomeschoolers.org are very 2e friendly so I think this might be a place to start. They also have a mailing list. Lots of 2e families on it. http://giftedhomesch...-professionals/ Another thought is to take a look at common interventions for ADHD and Aspergers and ask yourself if you think those things would be helpful for your child. IMO the dx is helpful if the corresponding interventions will be helpful. Maybe someone else can chime in. Where are you located? You can always talk to the Psych that you were referred to and ask if she has any experience with gt kids. The woman I worked with didn't have a clue when she started evaluating my child but she was willing to read about it and she not only figured things out she told me that she learned a lot from doing his evaluation because he was so different from anyone else she's worked with. Like I said I got lucky. Don't feel bad for IDing late. I totally missed visual processing issues with my kiddo. And he just started speech therapy this year (he's 15) It happens. It's better to find out in the teen years than after they are gone. Dyslexia runs in my dh's family. My kids are the first generation to actaully have a dx. When I spoke to her about it it was such a relief for her to hear about this. Info is good. I suppose I should have said "in the beginning" instead of "early years" It takes a little while to sort things out. Your report might help. Block design indicates good spatial skills. Maybe looking into resources for Visual Spatial kids might help. Hopefully your psych. can give you some suggestions too. If she doesn't explain the report ask questions.

Harder, yes. More, no. I don't even thing "regular" gifted kids need more work. Just harder. When your dealing with an 2e it is likely to mean less work but harder. Also some of this depends on the LD. My son has problems writing so it took him YEARS to be able to write the same amount as a non dyslexic kid. When you are working with a skill that they find challenging you have to go with baby steps. The tricky thing with a 2e kid is you want to also let them move leaps and bounds with areas that they excel at. What has worked for me. 1) Short daily practice in areas of challenge. Short can mean 10 minute or as long as an hour depending on how hard it is, the harder it is, the shorter the practice. Kind of like lifting weights. You probably can lift 5 lb weights for an hour but if I gave you say a 100lb weight you might be done after 5 minutes. It takes a while to figure out what is "just enough" don't worry if they don't become "expert weight lifters" overnight. Slow steady progress is the key. The main thing (at least for me) was to make this easy and short enough that my children don't absolutely hate remedial work (for my dyslexic kids this means writing and spelling). Of course they don't love it either but they are willing victims and they do this daily. 2) Letting my kids soar when they can and where they can. When my first grade son wrote a math problem on paper he'd get it wrong and cry. When he did it in his head he was working at a third grade level. I let him do math in his head until his writing caught up. Each kids strength and weakness will be different. Gifted kids can definitely have ADHD or Aspergers. However these are also common gifted traits so I'd recommend reading up on this a little and choosing your evaluator carefully. James Webb has written a bunch on this. Here's a short video Slow processing can also look like Aspergers. Mine is a super slow processor. He avoids eye contact because he has to think hard to respond to verbal questions and they are socially awkward. But of course a gifted child can have aspergers. Here is a handy checklist to get a feel for the differences. http://mcgt.net/wp-c..._.Checklist.pdf Here's one for gifted vs. ADHD http://www.sengifted...adhd-evaluation But of course a child can be gifted with ADHD and apergers. But depending on what you are dealing with you have to do different things. Slow processing speed can also look like ADHD. A child who is taking a long time to process might look out the window and take a long time to get an answer, for example. Anyhow it's a tricky web to untangle. Unfortunately the giftedness doesn't always make life easier, especially in the early years. I think once you get a handle on it, it can be quite a blessing. But it takes time.

My son was this way at 8. I think it was one of those over excitability things. It was very difficult. You have my sympathies. I can't for the life of me remember what I did. It was all a blur. Each year got a little better. I used to say that he was going to be an awesome teenager since he got all of the annoying stuff out of his system at 8. I knock on wood as I say this but, he really is turning out to be a great teenager and much of this is due to the stuff we had to work through at that age. I sent him to mathpath when he was 13 and 14. The first year of camp was completely transformative for him. They really understand that type of kid and his maturity skyrocketed. But 8? I was not feeling all that rosy about things when he was that age. It was two steps forward one step back. It took a really long time to figure things out.

Yes and no. For my son they have been really easy. I was banging him over the head with essay writing so for him it's a huge break. He is really good with grammar and reads at a college level. He does them with minimal help from me. With DD I hold her hand every step of the way. She is way younger and has way more problems with organization (a little from age and a little because it's just how she is). DD and I do these together. If she has trouble I help her. So for her I do more. I think the hardest thing about Killgallon is that the reading level is high. Both my kids read about 4+ grade levels above writing. I have only just started with my daughter. They both had some grammar before they started, I do the MCT books with them. DD only did the first level though and so far she is hanging on. I'll describe what we did today. He was in the bushes in moments,/scattering the birds,/grabbing branches,/stripping them to fill their mouths with berries. So before she got started I'd identify the things she knows. "he" is a pronoun "was" is a linking verb. I think I might have pointed out that there are two prepositional phrases next (she has seen this before but I don't think she'd be able to identify them by name if I asked). So with that I asked her to come up with her own. "Oliver was in the house for awhile " I am paraphrasing. the next chunk I don't think I even talked about grammar I asked her to imitate she came up with "finding robbers" I am doing this all from memory but it was something like that. At any rate at the end of this exercise she came up with a pretty decent sentence about Oliver Twist. Not exactly about the book but the theme was there. She seems to like to make up variations on the books she's reading. Fine with me. Oh she isn't actually reading Dickens I am reading it to her. Her reading level isn't THAT good. A week ago I was trying to get her to come up with a coherent sentence in WWE. It wasn't pretty. So while Killgallon is tough it really seems to be a break from what she was doing before. It gives her something to grab onto. You can check the online samples. http://www.heinemann.com/search/searchResults.aspx?s=all&q=killgallon They are pretty advanced materials but what seems to work for us is that you can go fairly slowly and still get a lot out of them.

My kids both do not like to write. DS14 and DD8. OG remediation I think was the first important thing for my kids. But of course it is only one small part of the writing dillema. Both of my children seem to be digging the Killgallon materials DS14 is doing the HS Sentence and Paragraph books. They are helping him build stamina. I just started DD with Sentences for elementary school. This seems to be really helping her figure out how to organize her thoughts on paper. Otherwise she is just all over the place. She was doing WWE3 but then just hit a wall she really has so much more to say and she's having trouble getting it out in an order that makes sense. Both my kids are dyslexic. I think the two things about these books that are helpful is that there is a ton of work at the sentence level which is where dyslexics need to be for a long time. Second thing is that it teaches by modeling. Perfect fit for their learning style. Dyslexics need much more time to develop writing skills. The main thing is to take it slow. I would not hold your daughter back for writing because for a dyslexic she really is on grade level. You have to totally adjust your expectations for dyslexic kids because many things are just going to take longer.

Yes indeed. RAN is what DS has such a problem with. The test with the pictures was in the less that 1st percentile. You have 5 pictures girl boat house sun... basic things and you have to name them girl, girl, house, boat boat. There's like a page. My son was unbelievably slow. Letter naming was also slow, not quite as slow but <10% He's been through barton 10 and is currently reading the Aeneid. He's studying latin (and is actually quite amazing at it) but he still takes about 5 million years to get anything on paper...In English I mean. He can translate sentence and even occasionally whole paragraphs in Latin without much problem. And when he does write it's almost as if it tires him out so much that he has to rest for a few days in between (that is if I make him do too much). It is extremely hard to find a balance. My daughter is way different from her brother. She has all the spatial strengthsand is super coordinated (none of the visual motor issues that DS has). I have not had her evaluated but I would guess that RAN for her is faster than DS but still slower than average. She has way more ADD type issues. Though to the untrained eye my son could appear to have attention issues. But that's not the case, his issue is entirely recall and accessing words. On the one hand it is so tough teaching a dyslexic child but in another way they are like these beautiful snowflakes of individuality. I imagine that after remediation her biggest issues with be organization and working memory. Totally different than DS but also similar enough that I feel like I know what I am doing with her. Oh E. You asked about Flashcard drill and RAN. There are workbooks out there that help with naming practice. http://www.linguisys...ay?itemid=10458 This was one that our SLP recommended. I occasionally do this with him but with all the demands of high school I have trouble fitting it in. I should have done this with him years ago. Oh well. I would be very careful about implementing any other type of flashcard practice with a child like this because it can easily overwhelm them and frustrate them. 10 minutes a day with naming activities, maybe. My son can easily talk about any topic but you just can't ask him a direct question and expect an answer any time today. You don't ask what the capital of Switzerland is you ask him to give you the history of that area. He could talk all day and eventually the capital would show up in the story like magic. If he's searching for the word it might take him a week. It's that whole narrative context thing that dyslexics have. His is extremely strong. He remembers everything, everything...everything. It can be a little intimidating sometimes since he knows so much more than I do in most subjects, and yet he struggles so much too.

Thanks for the heads up!

I took my son through Barton 10. I am not exactly sure I understand the question. However there are some things that got way better after remediation and others that did not. He reads at a college level. He can write an essay (if you give him enough time). He spells like your average 9th or 10th grader. What makes him still appear dyslexic? Well, when he does make a spelling error it isn't because the word is difficult. Sometimes he just leaves things out (a syllable, a word, a sentence etc.) and doesn't realize it until he goes back to read over his work. Or he might (if very tired) get a letter backwards or make a "dyslexic mistake" But he has no more errors than any other 9th grader, probably fewer. He takes about an hour or two to write a paragraph. He takes a really long time to access words. What type of intervention was involved in that study? An other thing that hasn't gone away is difficulty memorizing rote information. Since most of his issues are fatigue related errors and very slow writing speed, I have him work on building his stamina and he practices writing every day. I realized he really needs more sentence level work. He is working through the Kilgallon books Grammar for High School and Paragraphs for HS. These materials really click with him.

Me too. My youngest (8) has all the signs of her brother but way better at coping, better processing, WAY better motor planning, so writing is quite good. She still does funny things like asking me to spell "q". After working with her I am thinking she is more dyslexic than I thought, but my gut feeling is taking her through Barton will deal with 99% of her issues, so I don't think she'll need the paper trail of a formal dx.

I just stumbled across this link. I thought you all might be interested. http://www.familylight.com/link3/3.04/S_Proc/index.htm

Why not do both NT and P and C? FYI I think the number theory book is a tad easier than the probability book. I think my son loved the Probability book more, but I think that might be because it was his first AOPS book.

So what would be the best course of action for a young homeschooled student who is ready to study linear algebra? MIT OCW? EPGY (assuming they would waive the prereq.)? Other Linear algebra sources?

Just as an FYI. My son melts under time pressure and would never go near a math competition and he loved the camp. Sure there is no need to push your son towards this if he really doesn't want to go. However if your son is reluctant to go because he perceive it to be competitive than you can reassure him that kids like him do go to mathpath. At the camp they have opportunities for competition. However it is a very small portion of the camp and no one is forced or coerced to participate. The focus is more on the cool math. Let him do the problems. If he likes doing problems like this he will probably like the camp. If he is reluctant to be away from home he can always wait and apply next year. They are very nurturing and extremely good with sensitive kids.

I second the mathpath recommendation. Your schedule looks pretty awesome (if busy). What about just taking a week off now and then? Usually when we take a "week off" my son insists on still doing math and practicing but he'll happily take a week off of the rest. Once every couple of months or so. Gives us a chance to regroup and go on walks and play.

The book O chapters (at least the first few) are really not that difficult. They do provide a good foundation for the rest of their books though. It gets pretty meaty pretty fast when you get into the books with numbers. When my son did these books he flew through the first several chapters in a month or two. My daughter is only around Singapore 4 ish and it's actually a little tough for her (coming up with her 7 times tables so she can divide mod 7 or dividing by 29 and the like is a challenge for her still. They say that you need to have completed everything up to pre algebra but I think a bright child could start a little earlier. In case anyone has missed it the first chapter of Book 0 is now available as an online course and if you enroll now it is free. The online course is similar to the books. The books have more examples but the online component has these cool little aplets where you can play their games against the computer. This is coming in very handy for my daughter who is still wrapping her head around the math. http://www.elementsofmathematics.com/ I really wish they would make the more advanced books available online. (3,4, 5....) The math in the later books gets very cool.

My son is doing more of a discrete math sequence. We definitely have not planned this out but I can try to recreate what he has done. 3rd grade AOPS Probability and Counting (there was no pre algebra and he was not yet ready for Alg) He took the class online, didn't do challenge problems. Loved it. After this he only used the books. 4th grade Elements of Mathematics Book 0 chapters 1-7 I think. Um...Maybe some of the P and C challenge problems. I think he started AOPS Intro to Algebra this year. 5th AOPS Algebra + Elements of Mathematics Book 1 6th AOPS Geometry + AOPS Number Theory + Elements of mathematics Book 2 7th AOPS Geometry + Elements of Mathematics Book 3 8th Problems from AOPS Book 1 and 2 (the compilation books...he skipped around) Elements of Mathematics Book 4 (At this point the lack of an answer key became too challenging) Also MIT Mathematics for Computer Science (about the first half of this course..this is a really good course! It was recommended to me by Kathy in Richmond) 9th grade AOPS Intermediate Algebra EPGY Number Theory. As you can see he has accelerated way more radically in the discrete math field than in the traditional math sequence. This is a rough sketch.He absolutely loves discrete proofy type math.