College educated baristas and the humanities major

[TwoEdgedSword]

Please opine if you would like after reading this article.

Thanks.

 

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/09/fear-of-a-college-educated-barista/500792/

[TammyS]

IMO, no one really knows what's going on in this area.  I just read a different article the other day (posted on WTM?) that liberal arts majors do better in the long run, in dollars, than STEM majors.  I've also read that liberal arts undergrads often get STEM/technical grad degrees, and so don't get counted in the successful liberal arts majors section.  How many end up running their own businesses or being self employed (writers, for example) and don't get counted at all?  I also seem to remember during "the great recession" hearing about loads of engineers being unemployed because there were SO MANY of them.  And, of course, none of this breaks down "serious" liberal arts majors (that is, people who deliberately went to school for a major that would count as liberal arts) from the "non-serious" liberal arts major (the guy who bounced around from one thing to another in college and eventually collected enough credits, quite possibly by accident, to graduate (after 6-7 years) as a "liberal arts" major, but with no real focus to his education).   I would suggest both the quality of the education these two people, as well as the quality of the people themselves makes a difference.

 

[TwoEdgedSword]

One of my kids wants to teach literature at the college level. :-)

[Mom22ns]

I am glad to hear the unemployment for young grads with liberal arts degrees is declining.

 

I really see no point in comparing employment of liberal arts vs STEM majors. I have one of each. It is true that my nursing major attends a college with a 100% job placement rate for graduating BSNs, not to mention that last year the average sign on bonus was $10,000. My liberal arts major would be miserable in a STEM field. The fact is, he would simply never bother with a degree, if a STEM degree was the only option. He'd much rather be a barista. 

 

I do think students need to be mindful of their potential earnings before taking on debt. Knowing that the job market will be tougher for our non-STEM student, we made sure he chose a school where his scholarships brought the cost within our budget. I know this isn't possible for everyone, but I do not think the outrageous debt loads some students choose to take on are necessary or wise. 

[Bluegoat]

IMO, no one really knows what's going on in this area.  I just read a different article the other day (posted on WTM?) that liberal arts majors do better in the long run, in dollars, than STEM majors.  I've also read that liberal arts undergrads often get STEM/technical grad degrees, and so don't get counted in the successful liberal arts majors section.  How many end up running their own businesses or being self employed (writers, for example) and don't get counted at all?  I also seem to remember during "the great recession" hearing about loads of engineers being unemployed because there were SO MANY of them.  And, of course, none of this breaks down "serious" liberal arts majors (that is, people who deliberately went to school for a major that would count as liberal arts) from the "non-serious" liberal arts major (the guy who bounced around from one thing to another in college and eventually collected enough credits, quite possibly by accident, to graduate (after 6-7 years) as a "liberal arts" major, but with no real focus to his education).   I would suggest both the quality of the education these two people, as well as the quality of the people themselves makes a difference.

 

This is the problem I have with looking at stats about this topic.  It isn't that they are totally useless, but they are so aggregate that they don't really say much about what would be best for a particular student in a particular time and place.  It might be that nation-wide a STEM grad earns more than a liberal arts grad who earns more than a welder.  OTOH, for someone living in a particular spot it might be a better bet to be a welder.  Going into health care which often gets pushed as a great career move would be possibly horrific for someone who doesn't like to work with others closely.

[Corraleno]

I'd like to know how they define "underemployed," especially for majors where there really isn't any such thing as "a job in your major" with a BA. Is an office manager with a degree in philosophy or anthropology considered "underemployed" because his job isn't technically related to his degree? Does a 22 yr old with a degree in psychology have to be employed in a psychology-related field to not be counted as "underemployed"? And how much would the supposedly underemployed graduates be earning with just a high school diploma? Would they have even qualified for the jobs they have?

 

Also, as others mentioned above, lumping together all STEM degrees into one category, and all Lib Arts degrees into another, obscures very real differences within those categories. Engineers and nurses may have very high employment rates, but what about a generic biology degree? Is a general bio major just as likely to end up working as a barista as an anthro major? More likely to be underemployed than someone with a degree in Spanish or Mandarin or an English degree and a TOEFL certificate?

Edited September 21, 2016 by Corraleno

[katilac]

They're always comparing liberal arts vs STEM, but those aren't the only two choices. What about business, for example? 

[G5052]

I agree that it is a silly comparison. It's far more complex than your degree.

 

What if you have a liberal arts degree that a tech company might be interested in, but for whatever reason you don't want to move there. So you work at Starbucks. Is that really a problem with your degree?

 

One of mine is an accounting major. Great, flexible degree, but the bottom line is that he actually likes it. He could probably make a lot of $$$, but he's thinking of working for local government or a small business. So probably a decent salary, but not big bucks. So does that mean it's an inferior degree?

 

The other one is graduating in May and is thinking about a professional writing/rhetoric degree. From the university she's planning and in our area, that's a very employable degree. From other schools and in other areas, maybe not. She also is thinking about college teaching, but as a STEM community college professor who has struggled to get work, I of course have encouraged her to be open to other options.

 

Another key is to get some work experience in your field in college through an internship, campus research job, or co-op. 

[Bluegoat]

They're always comparing liberal arts vs STEM, but those aren't the only two choices. What about business, for example? 

 

Or something like law.

[MamaSprout]

My STEM graduate dd is ... working as a barista. She's recently married (and moved), and just trying to figure out what her next step is. She didn't get into her first choice grad school. So, yeah, it happens. She's doing it because it's a good way to meet people in her new town.

[FaithManor]

The factors involved are nuanced and numerous so as usual these comparisons are useless.

 

And frankly, again it also comes back to goals and perspective. If the only reason one sees in attending college is money earning potential, then this is a big deal. If, like dh and I, you value education for education, personal growth for the sake thereof, and you encourage your kids to think outside the box in terms of employment, then this comparison is also meaningless.

 

A humanities degree from crappy,state, regional U of dubious reputation locally? Yah, you probably don't want your kids getting any degree there much less one that will require a creative self marketing approach post graduation. But a classic degree, English, History, from somewhere like Wooster or Kalamazoo College, or a public ivy like U of Michigan, or William and Mary? Probably not an issue.

 

And let me say this. No one had better knock on a barrista's job. I am not human in the morning until I have had java, and I am ertnally grateful for the people who fix it up and serve it to me with a smile! A good coffee shop is a blessing at least in my world it is.

[TwoEdgedSword]

Good points Faith!

[Bluegoat]

Yes, I think we focus too much on certain kinds of employment.  The only downside of a university educated barista IMO is if she is struggling to get by because of debt.

[FaithManor]

Yes, I think we focus too much on certain kinds of employment.  The only downside of a university educated barista IMO is if she is struggling to get by because of debt.

This is why I think it is really important to carefully consider financial packages and colleges. Try not to go into much debt for that undergraduate degree.

[bettyandbob]

 

 

A humanities degree from crappy,state, regional U of dubious reputation locally? Yah, you probably don't want your kids getting any degree there much less one that will require a creative self marketing approach post graduation. But a classic degree, English, History, from somewhere like Wooster or Kalamazoo College, or a public ivy like U of Michigan, or William and Mary? Probably not an issue.

 

 

Well my 2E ds is finishing a history degree from a state university of dubious reputation. Personal circumstances are a factor here. We are very happy he is finishing a degree. He has a sky high IQ, but his other issues, particularly executive function issues limited his options for undergrad purposes. Ds did know what he wanted, still doesn't. He has always loved history, so a history degree is a good thing for him to focus on. Hopefully, by the end of next summer he'll be able to check the degree box on job applications for the rest of his life.

 

The good thing is ds has gotten to do research and present at academic conferences. Good experience we never expected from his school.

 

We told our dc we expected them to get a degree. We did not specify what degree. We told dc we'd do everything we could to get them that degree debt free. That meant a close look at finances.

 

I won't tell my dc what to study. My parents dictated what I studied. They told me to do a specific professional degree after my BS. They did pay for it all (state schools in early 80s). However, although I hated that profession. I wasted years on school to do something I dont like. I worked in that field 8 years. Not long for the time invested. I'd rather my dc invest time in learning something they are interested in. And I did know what I wanted to do. That career was deemed "not good enough" by my father. I should have broken away then, but I did not and I regret never pursuing that dream field for me.

[8filltheheart]

A humanities degree from crappy,state, regional U of dubious reputation locally? Yah, you probably don't want your kids getting any degree there much less one that will require a creative self marketing approach post graduation. But a classic degree, English, History, from somewhere like Wooster or Kalamazoo College, or a public ivy like U of Michigan, or William and Mary? Probably not an issue..

We are facing this right now with our 12th grader. We obviously don't know where she will end up, but it most likely will not be from any school like you listed but instead a lower ranked public that offers a lot of merit $$.

 

I vacillate between confidence in her goals bc she is extremely self-driven and panic that she will really struggle after she graduates.

[JanetC]

We are facing this right now with our 12th grader. We obviously don't know where she will end up, but it most likely will not be from any school like you listed but instead a lower ranked public that offers a lot of merit $$.

 

I vacillate between confidence in her goals bc she is extremely self-driven and panic that she will really struggle after she graduates.

 

I don't think it's easy for liberal arts majors. I have a kid majoring in maybe art and maybe anthropology as a freshman at a pretty-good LAC (but one low-enough ranked to have merit aid).

 

I assume that it's going to take her longer to "find her way" in the world of work after she graduates than someone getting a degree in business or engineering, but she will get there.

 

I don't think I can pay for her to get a graduate degree in "something practical" but there are certificate programs out there for 3-4 K total that she could do later to learn about business, web publishing, or some other specific field to make herself more marketable.

 

We'll see.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

One of my kids wants to teach literature at the college level. :-)

This sounds great and love for my kid to be able to do this too but I keep reading of too many people hoping for tenure track positions at colleges and only getting adjunct positions with no benefits and little pay and no job security:(  Have you heard differently?

[FaithManor]

We are facing this right now with our 12th grader. We obviously don't know where she will end up, but it most likely will not be from any school like you listed but instead a lower ranked public that offers a lot of merit $$.

 

I vacillate between confidence in her goals bc she is extremely self-driven and panic that she will really struggle after she graduates.

Self driven is good. Some kids are really great at carving out niches.

 

I know where you are at. My ds at U of Mi is majoring in English/Writing, dropping his comp sci minor, finishing a German minor and potentially adding a music minor! I get it. I really do. But he is one seriously self motivated guy, and he befriends his professors, works for them, listens to them, which impresses them enough to help him find opportunities. He is now, only as a sophomore, a T.A. in both English and Music Theory, tutors for pay, and has the opportunity to do an internship with The Flint Journal newspaper. I think his professors will help him make enough connections that combined with his can-do-it attitude, he'll find a writing job post college. It worries his dad a little, though as he sees ds blossoming that is waning, but otherwise we are okay with it.

 

I think it is definitely a pretty tough row to hoe for less outgoing, less can do spirit kids and average students because where one has to get creative and tenacious carving out opportunities, being more laid back or less confident can really hurt, and if there is a LOT of competition being in the middle of the pack in achievement or grades doesn't help.

 

I absolutely adore this stage of parenting. My adult kids are so much fun. And yet I do admit that sometimes this comes with more nail biting and worry than when they were young, and I could simply be in charge of them and direct their lives. :crying:  

[8filltheheart]

Self driven is good. Some kids are really great at carving out niches.

 

I know where you are at. My ds at U of Mi is majoring in English/Writing, dropping his comp sci minor, finishing a German minor and potentially adding a music minor! I get it. I really do. But he is one seriously self motivated guy, and he befriends his professors, works for them, listens to them, which impresses them enough to help him find opportunities. He is now, only as a sophomore, a T.A. in both English and Music Theory, tutors for pay, and has the opportunity to do an internship with The Flint Journal newspaper. I think his professors will help him make enough connections that combined with his can-do-it attitude, he'll find a writing job post college. It worries his dad a little, though as he sees ds blossoming that is waning, but otherwise we are okay with it.

 

I think it is definitely a pretty tough row to hoe for less outgoing, less can do spirit kids and average students because where one has to get creative and tenacious carving out opportunities, being more laid back or less confident can really hurt, and if there is a LOT of competition being in the middle of the pack in achievement or grades doesn't help.

 

I absolutely adore this stage of parenting. My adult kids are so much fun. And yet I do admit that sometimes this comes with more nail biting and worry than when they were young, and I could simply be in charge of them and direct their lives. :crying:

One of the strategies she is taking is applying to schools with specialized global fellowships. One school she applied to has a special program for 5 students, another 20, another 40. But the programs offer unique opportunities for mentoring, internships, and study abroad.

 

Our ds who is at Bama receives the same sort of mentoring in research through their CBH program. It has been a wonderful experience for him.

 

We are hoping that she gets accepted into one of these programs and that she has a similar experience to her brother.

[daijobu]

This sounds great and love for my kid to be able to do this too but I keep reading of too many people hoping for tenure track positions at colleges and only getting adjunct positions with no benefits and little pay and no job security:(  Have you heard differently?

 

A friend of mine is a tenured English professor at a LAC.  She tells me she's relieved to not have to work with the PhDs in her department because it's just too depressing.