Lots of Worries About Reading :(

[shinyhappypeople]

Except for occasionally reading me a recipe, sign, or ad, 11 yo DD REFUSES to read out loud.  It's probably been a couple of years since I've heard her read aloud for schoolwork.  I knew she had vision issues (convergence insufficiency - words "swim," and go in and out of focus when she's doing close-up work like reading and writing), so I didn't press the issue (or reading in general) for quite awhile.  But I need to hear her reading.  I need to know if she's skipping words, the types of words she struggles with, how she attacks unfamiliar words, etc.  But... no go.

 

 Her CI is now corrected - or at least managed with glasses - and I thought that her reading issues would also resolve.  That has NOT been the case, She's able to decode individual words okay.  She read a Secrets of Droon book in one sitting (1 and 1/2 hrs) and LOVED it.  That's the only book she's read this fall.  She got halfway through another SOD book but didn't finish.  Those books are early 3rd grade reading level.  

 

She wants to read.  She tried (and gave up) on Harry Potter a year or so ago, then recently tried (and gave up on)  The Hunger Games.  These are books her friends love and she wants to read them too, but they're just overwhelming: long chapters, more challenging words, more complex storylines, etc.  For The Hunger Games, she read for about an hour and got maybe halfway through the first chapter.  She was reading it on my kindle and used the biggest possible font, which worries me because I'm wondering if maybe her CI isn't being managed well with her glasses.  But, when I asked her about it, she said she doesn't have any of the vision problems she had before (swimming letters, etc.) when she wears her glasses. She just likes the big font.  I actually believe her, because ... I don't know, instinct... I just do.  So, I guess that's another thing to wonder about:  why would she need the big font?  Maybe it makes it less overwhelming?

 

Also, she's now refusing even silent reading during school.  We started using "The Story of the USA" workbook and she flipped.out at the idea of having to read the whole lesson (1 and 1/4 pages). She said it was boring. That might be true.  BUT, learning to read for information (even boring texts) is kind of an important skill. I suggested she just read the first section (3 short paragraphs).  She silently "read" it and after a minute she said, "OK, I'm done, and I don't understand any of it."  First of all, I sincerely doubt that she actually read both paragraphs because that's awfully quick for her, but maybe she did.  I don't know. (If you go to the link above and click on "More Views" you can see the exact passage I'm talking about)  But, then again, if she's reading comfortably at a 3rd grade level the issue may be that the text was too difficult (it's written at a 4th grade level, I think).  FWIW, I ended up reading the section aloud to her, and will probably continue doing that for awhile.Anyway, that whole situation brought up another concern:  reading comprehension.

 

Her spelling is pretty poor.  She spells things in a way that I can usually decode them and they generally make sense (e.g. birde for bird), but spelling is definitely an area of concern. 

 

I feel so lost right now.  I can't afford a leaning disability eval, the school district is next to useless for this type of testing.  I've thought about giving her the DORA assessment, but she's had BAD experiences with testing during our time with the public homeschool-charter school we were with.  I predict that she wouldn't do her best on it because the charter shamed and penalized her for not being academically "proficient."  It was a really bad situation.  By the end they were assessing her every single month, she had full on testing anxiety.  SO, all that to say that while the DORA might provide useful information so I can better help her, it's probably not going to happen.

 

I'm lost and I don't know what to do.   EVENTUALLY I hope to be able to have her evaluated for learning disabilities.  But that is NOT an option right now.  Sitting around waiting until we can afford an eval isn't an option, so how can I best help her in the meantime?  She is strong, inventive, smart, creative, and funny.  She is a GREAT kid.  She deserves the best.  But, I'm not really sure what "the best" looks like for her.

[OneStepAtATime]

If she has any issues like dyslexia then while vision correction will have helped a bit it does not at all solve the reading difficulties.  Are you certain there is no way to get an evaluation right now through a Neurphsych or edupsych?  If not, I fully understand.  It just would really help to get a more thorough assessment through a qualified professional.

 

In the meantime:

 

1.  Read to her.  Let her listen to audio books.  Look into getting  Immersion reading books.  Keep her involved with content so she doesn't fall too far behind with her basic knowledge base/exposure to grammar/concepts, etc. while you address the reading/spelling issues.

 

2.  If I were in your position I would assume you are dealing with dyslexia and operate from that perspective until you can get professional evals.  Do research on dyslexia and different OG based systems.  Read posts here on the LC board regarding reading challenges, especially dyslexia.  Lots of great info.

 

3.  Look into starting her on an Orton-Gillingham based reading remediation program if you can, but read info on dyslexia first.  Come at this from a more informed background.

 

4.  Read the book The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide.

 

5.  Hop on the Barton Reading and Spelling website for some quick, free info.  Then maybe administer the tutor and student screenings.  They are free, relatively quick, pretty easy to do, and might give you more info on if there are other areas that need addressing before you try any reading remediation through a standard OG based system.  And you are under no obligation whatsoever to buy the program.  This is just a free tool that might add some information to your arsenal.  It is not an IQ or knowledge test but targets certain sound and planning skills that are necessary to be successful with reading remediation for dyslexics.

 

http://www.bartonreading.com/dys.html

 

6.  A big font helps the words to be seen as separate.  It makes decoding a bit easier if you are a dyslexic.  That isn't a vision thing, necessarily.  With dyslexia, it is a neurological processing thing.  Some kids with dyslexia also have vision issues but the vision is secondary.  The neurological processing differences are the biggie.  Let her use big fonts if it helps.

 

7.  Do not force her to read out loud right now.  In fact, I wouldn't force her to read at all right now since she is getting so resistant and seems to be struggling. Wait until you find a program to address reading remediation and not unless whatever remediation program you choose requires it.  Just keep reading to her and letting her listen to audio books (if she does o.k. with that - some kids don't).  You will be encouraging her to guess and demoralizing her when she cannot decode fluently if she is trying to read independently or out loud without properly addressing where the disconnect is.  Bad reading habits will be reinforced and make it harder to undo those later.  Once remediation is well under way, then she will be (hopefully) able to decode more efficiently when reading out loud and reading independently.

 

Hugs and best wishes....

[Kalmia]

You will need an eval at some point. But in the meantime...

 

Did she learn to read in the beginning using an intensive phonics program like All About Reading/All About Spelling, Spalding, Logic of English, or SWB's phonics based reading program (Every Parents Guide to Teaching Reading? maybe?)? Did you complete the program? As in did she memorize all the phonogram sounds and rules and apply them? Can she divide words into syllables? Can she break them into phonemes verbally? If she is not fluent in phonics, I would drop her way back to the beginning of a program like Logic of English Essentials or Spalding and do short lessons everyday. It should help both her reading and spelling and these intensive type of programs are similar to the Orton Gillingham programs used with Dyslexic students. I think that breaking the words apart is a foundational skill that is often skipped. I like Denise Eide's method of holding up a finger for each phoneme as it is sounded out in the word. You can take her teacher training course for free on YouTube. There are 22 videos in the training series.

 

 

 

She is going to resist reading BECAUSE it is so hard for her and she feels like a failure so she has given up. By taking her all the way back and doing very short lessons, you should be able to rebuild her confidence.

 

 

 

[Lecka]

At least look at Barton, too.

 

I am doing LoE Foundations Level A with my daughter right now, and I like it a lot.  

 

But I would still look at Barton, look at the possibility of dyslexia, and if it is the case, consider a dyslexia-specific program (vs a general high-quality program).  

 

Do you know if she knows how to blend?  Do you know if she knows all her letter sounds?  Do you know if she can read single-syllable words but not multi-syllable?  Do you know if she has good listening comprehension of things read to her?  Do you know if she can read single words but needs to work on reading connected text?  

 

I like the website for readingrockets, too.  I think it is readingrockets.org.  It has a "struggling reader" section.  That and the Barton website are both helpful.  

 

Abecedarian (abcdrp.com) also has a placement test ----- it might not be the right choice of program, but I am familiar with the placement test, and you could use it to see if she has or doesn't have certain gaps.  

[LaughingCat]

I don't see how you can do something like Barton or other reading program if she won't read to you.  Can you get her to read word lists?

 

I think Elizabeth B's site has a reading test with just words lists (also one with paragraph - if you could get her to read it ).   If she is reading fairly well but just struggling with bigger words, you might consider something like Rewards - the whole first section is word list style instead of paragraph style.

 

 

 

[PeterPan]

I guess I'm going a different direction from the others with this, but why are you saying her convergence is managed/controlled at this point?  You have tons of evidence to the contrary.  Glasses don't solve convergence problems and they don't remediate underlying visual processing deficits.  She may have poor visual memory, etc. etc. from years of convergence problems.  Her convergence probably isn't as good as you're thinking.  Also, a developmental optometrist can check her tracking with the Visagraph (infrared goggles).

 

I'd get her to a developmental optometrist and get her eyes checked.  

 

Sorry to say that right before Christmas.  :(   If money is tight, sometimes you can get the state child insurance to pay for it.  Some dev. optometrists will have a no child leaves untreated policy or other options.  If the problem is her vision, the answer isn't curriculum.

[shinyhappypeople]

I guess I'm going a different direction from the others with this, but why are you saying her convergence is managed/controlled at this point?  You have tons of evidence to the contrary.  Glasses don't solve convergence problems and they don't remediate underlying visual processing deficits.  She may have poor visual memory, etc. etc. from years of convergence problems.  Her convergence probably isn't as good as you're thinking.  Also, a developmental optometrist can check her tracking with the Visagraph (infrared goggles).

 

I'd get her to a developmental optometrist and get her eyes checked.  

 

Sorry to say that right before Christmas.   :(   If money is tight, sometimes you can get the state child insurance to pay for it.  Some dev. optometrists will have a no child leaves untreated policy or other options.  If the problem is her vision, the answer isn't curriculum.

 

Running out the door, so can't say much but, short answer is that her COVD has checked her eyes with and without the glasses (aka prism lenses) and the prism lenses do correct the CI.  Plus, DD has said she has NO problems seeing the words clearly anymore.  You're correct that regular glasses wouldn't have done jack for her.

[Pen]

Would she read aloud to someone else? Or with a computer? 

 

She is going to have a hard time with a gap between interest level and reading ability level, but the gap will tend to get worse and worse over time. Finding things that can interest her, and that she is able to read would probably be a big help, but you may need to convince her that she will have to work on things that are below her interest level for a while so as to get to be able to read things at her interest level later.

 

I think Hunger Games is advanced for an 11 year old in terms of difficulty, and did not allow it then in terms of content, in any case.  In fact, my ds is almost 13, and while I let him see the first movie of HG, I'm still wary about the series.

 

When my ds was remediating reading we used High Noon, known for its high interest/low level materials, and you could look at those, and/ or do a search with the terms high interest/low level readers and see what comes up.   I used to get a huge catalog full of these types of readers, so I know there is a lot out there.  That is, there are a lot of books that are written at an easier level even though they are meant to appeal to an older audience than would usually be reading at that reading level.

 

There are also some reading remediation programs that tend to appeal more to older learners.  I think High Noon, Language! and Dancing Bears Fast Track are amongst these.

 

It may be too late for your dd in terms of interest level, but for my ds, The Magic Tree House series took him from grade 2 ability reading level through to grade 4 ability --at which point for him he was then able to read at his interest level (starting with Rick Riordan's Red Pyramid),   Some other early accessible series included the Buddy books (Buddy is a mystery solving golden retriever), Hank the Cowdog, and some others--my ds was interested in dogs so tended to read things with dogs in them, but you could probably find similar to fit horse interest, or other interests.  You could also look at reading lists for 3rd graders and see if there are things that your dd maybe could read and that would interest her.

 

You will probably need to separate her reading which she still needs to work on learning to read / remediating reading below grade level it seems, from other school work where she cannot yet read well enough to read to learn at her level, so make use of audio, film, read aloud and other resources to allow her to keep learning other subjects while she is learning to read.

 

Also, even if not great, you might want to use public school or groups in your area for whatever help they can give toward evaluations.

 

My ds had amblyopia and also he had dyslexia... solving or mostly solving the amblyopia did not solve the dyslexia. I would guess that your dd also has more than one thing going on.

[Pen]

PS I was writing about 3rd grade level books above because your post indicated that she had been able to read one at that level, but it may be that she has gaps and problems even below the 3rd grade level that need to be addressed.

[shinyhappypeople]

Well, color me surprised.  Homefry agreed to do the DORA assessment this morning.  I framed it as, "You deserve a great education.  By doing this you're helping me be a better teacher.   It's not pass or fail, there are no 'good' or 'bad' results.  It just gives me more information about how you're reading so I can teach you better."  (All of which is completely true, btw)

 

And she agreed.

 

(Where's the fainting emoticon?)

 

The results are .... interesting.

I'm not sure what to make of the reading comprehension subtest.  It's such a leap between that and the other scores (even her vocabulary).  She had NO problem answering the questions, answered quickly and confidently up until the final passage.  I wonder if reading in context is easier than reading in isolation because she can make educated guesses about word meanings...  maybe? I don't know.  I'm going to think about this some more.

 

Her word mistakes on the phonics portion of the test were interesting.  Even when she picked the wrong word, it was a similar length and shape as the correct word, or it was in the same word family (e.g. --ough ending) as the correct word.  So, for the most part, her mistakes weren't random.

 

Graphophonic

(Letters and Sounds)

 

High-Frequency Word Subtest (Range K-3rd) ..................................................................... Grade: low 2nd

This subtest examines the learner’s knowledge of basic sight-word vocabulary.

 

Word Recognition Subtest (Range K-12th) ............................................................................ Grade: low 5th

This subtest looks at the learner’s ability to read a variety of phonetically regular and

phonetically irregular words.

 

Phonics Subtest (Range PreK-4th) ............................................................................................. Grade: low 4th

This subtest is made up of questions testing the learner’s ability to sound out a word.

 

Phonemic Awareness Subtest (Good/Poor/Not Tested) ........................................................ Ability: not tested

This subtest is usually only given to early readers. If tested it assesses the student’s ability to

manipulate and use individual sounds (phonemes) within words.

 

Spelling Subtest (Range K-12th) ................................................................................................. Grade:  mid 2nd

This subtest will assess the learner’s spelling skills.

 

Semantic (Meaning Making)

 

Oral Vocabulary Subtest (Range K-12th) ............................................................................... Grade: high 4th

This subtest is designed to test the learner’s receptive oral vocabulary skills.

 

Reading Comprehension Subtest (Range K-12th) ............................................................... Grade: mid 7th

This subtest will evaluate the learner’s ability to answer questions about a silently read

story.

 

[FairProspects]

 

Well, color me surprised.  Homefry agreed to do the DORA assessment this morning.  I framed it as, "You deserve a great education.  By doing this you're helping me be a better teacher.   It's not pass or fail, there are no 'good' or 'bad' results.  It just gives me more information about how you're reading so I can teach you better."  (All of which is completely true, btw)

 

And she agreed.

 

(Where's the fainting emoticon?)

 

The results are .... interesting.

I'm not sure what to make of the reading comprehension subtest.  It's such a leap between that and the other scores (even her vocabulary).  She had NO problem answering the questions, answered quickly and confidently up until the final passage.  I wonder if reading in context is easier than reading in isolation because she can make educated guesses about word meanings...  maybe? I don't know.  I'm going to think about this some more.

 

Her word mistakes on the phonics portion of the test were interesting.  Even when she picked the wrong word, it was a similar length and shape as the correct word, or it was in the same word family (e.g. --ough ending) as the correct word.  So, for the most part, her mistakes weren't random.

 

 

Yes, but the bolded is very common for dyslexics. You might want to google "stealth dyslexia" and see if you think it applies here. She may have overcome some of the reading difficulties of dyslexia by compensating in other ways but it can still show up in poor spelling issues and difficulty reading aloud.

 

 

[mommymonster]

One thing I know about DORA is that the high-frequency word test is timed, and speed is required to score well. If she's pokey (my son is so, so pokey), or isn't familiar with computers, that might have impacted her scores. 

 

My son is an abysmal speller, and we're slogging through AAS. It's a challenge. That being said, AAS is based on the Orton-Gillingham approach, which is often used for remediating dyslexia. My son doesn't have dyslexia, but... I continue to wonder about stealth dyslexia. 

 

I know you've mentioned that a neuropsych eval isn't in the cards right now, but if you have a university nearby, I'd look into whether they do testing as a part of a clinic for grad students. They are generally much less expensive than a private pay neuropsych. Just something that might be useful. 

[Pen]

My first thought is dyslexia might give those results. 

 

It does look like she has gaps even below the 3rd grade level, so looks like a program to work with her on remediating back to where she scored in low 2nd is needed. Too bad the phonemic awareness was not tested. That could have been helpful too.

 

Some people have mentioned getting free dyslexia evaluation done by Scottish Rite centers or something like that? Maybe someone can explain that as another possible help for you to get her evaluated.

[Heathermomster]

Google Scottish Rite Learning Centers and discover whether one is near you. Call them directly and discover whether they provide low or no cost dyslexia testing.

 

My DS was initially diagnosed with dyslexia that way. Some Scottish Rite Learning Centers provide loaner OG materials while others provide tutoring.

 

You could also call your local dyslexia school and for about $350, get your child tested for dyslexia as well.

[geodob]

You wrote: ' I wonder if reading in context is easier than reading in isolation because she can make educated guesses about word meanings...  maybe? I don't know.'

 

But reading and understanding fundamentally rely on developing a context.

With a context established, our brain is thinking ahead, and is rather expecting words to come.

In the same way, that when someone is speaking to you, and you understand the context of what they are talking about?

You will often find, that you rather know what they are about to say?

When you later recall what they said?

At first you recall the context.

Then next, the words that weren't expected.

Which qualify what we heard or read, and make it unique.

Which is what is transferred to our Short Term Memory.

That is linked to the 'context', which is stored in Long Term Memory.

 

Though this rather highlights the problem, where 'learning how to read'?

Isn't actually taught.

Rather it teaches how to read individual words, and does little more than that?

But the actual reading process, is a whole other area.

Where different 'ways of reading', can be used. Depending on what is being read.

 

Which has a focus on the purpose on the reading of a text.

[Pen]

 

Though this rather highlights the problem, where 'learning how to read'?

Isn't actually taught.

Rather it teaches how to read individual words, and does little more than that?

But the actual reading process, is a whole other area.

Where different 'ways of reading', can be used. Depending on what is being read.

 

 

 

This is a main reason why I think HighNoon worked for my son--

It emphasized reading in context,

Reading simple texts very, very early in the program.

And texts increased in complexity rapidly as word knowledge increased.

No nonsense words till quite a ways into it--

and minimal even then, usually as names, for example.

Rather the opposite of Barton, in that regard.

[OneStepAtATime]

This is a main reason why I think HighNoon worked for my son--

It emphasized reading in context,

Reading simple texts very, very early in the program.

And texts increased in complexity rapidly as word knowledge increased.

No nonsense words till quite a ways into it--

and minimal even then, usually as names, for example.

Rather the opposite of Barton, in that regard.

I think this is an interesting point.

 

DD does so well with Barton.  Level 4 was a bear but our second time through she is doing extremely well and Level 4 is usually challenging anyway.   I expected some issues with that level.  Still, things are so much smoother this time and I can see things unlocking daily (and she can, too, which is probably why she asked for an extra lesson on a Saturday).  LOVE Barton.  DD definitely needed to go back to just sound association and then lots of nonsense AND real words before things started to click.  Context actually threw her off.  She would guess instead of taking the time to decode.  I am so grateful for Barton.  I do modify where needed but for the most part she can do the program as scripted.  It takes effort but that would have happened no matter what the program.  I am positive of that.

 

But every child is different.  Not every child will do well with every program.  Pen, and others, have done well with High Noon.  It seems like such a great alternative if a traditional OG program just doesn't cut it.  I have thought of switching DS to High Noon so many times, since he has glitches that Barton is not addressing effectively.

 

I just wish we, as parents and educators, could pull out our crystal balls and see which program will work best with which child, and which programs will work really well if they are just modified a bit and which programs are just a bad fit altogether before investing all that time and effort.  Goodness.  Sure would save a lot of time AND money AND stress, KWIM.  :)

[Pen]

I think this is an interesting point.

 

DD does so well with Barton.  Level 4 was a bear but our second time through she is doing extremely well and Level 4 is usually challenging anyway.   I expected some issues with that level.  Still, things are so much smoother this time and I can see things unlocking daily (and she can, too, which is probably why she asked for an extra lesson on a Saturday).  LOVE Barton.  DD definitely needed to go back to just sound association and then lots of nonsense AND real words before things started to click.  Context actually threw her off.  She would guess instead of taking the time to decode.  I am so grateful for Barton.  I do modify where needed but for the most part she can do the program as scripted.  It takes effort but that would have happened no matter what the program.  I am positive of that.

 

But every child is different.  Not every child will do well with every program.  Pen, and others, have done well with High Noon.  It seems like such a great alternative if a traditional OG program just doesn't cut it.  I have thought of switching DS to High Noon so many times, since he has glitches that Barton is not addressing effectively.

 

I just wish we, as parents and educators, could pull out our crystal balls and see which program will work best with which child, and which programs will work really well if they are just modified a bit and which programs are just a bad fit altogether before investing all that time and effort.  Goodness.  Sure would save a lot of time AND money AND stress, KWIM.   :)

 

 

I have the feeling that my ds may have (or have had, not sure correct tense to use), more severe dyslexia than your dd...  He was not reading AT ALL in his brick and mortar schools, whereas I had the feeling that your dd had some reading ability, but a significant level of dyslexia that caught up with her (stealth?).  My ds still basically cannot read nonsense words, which may mean that some significant problems will still emerge later--as it is, the dyslexia always does have some impact on curriculum choices and he nearly always still learns far more easily from audio-visual materials when they are available. I'm not sure how that all will play out in the longer run.  Also, your dd is too far ahead for HighNoon, so far as I can tell, except maybe for some of its  high/low readers--which may also be of help for dd of OP in this thread. 

 

I realize that Barton is thought of for severe situations, and HN perhaps thought of for kids who can move faster through a shorter program, but in my son's case, I think there was too much of a glitch to surmount the nonsense words problem and he had to get to some in-context reading as soon as possible.

 

In any case, I think this sort of discussion may help this thread's OP as she thinks through what her dd needs.

 

I have a couple of links regarding some research that I want to post that may be relevant to trying to figure out some of the fit of program to child, but I am going to put them in a separate thread with a group of links rather than on this thread, since some may also be relevant to another current thread here.  Actually, I may as well do both since I can copy and paste pretty easily right now.

 

 

 

basic explanation for kids

https://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/dyslexia.html

 

brain differences may be result, not cause

http://explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=70686

(This one suggests that finding an effective program that will allow the child to start reading a lot ASAP can help to normalize the brain differences...that still does not actually say what the most effective program for a particular child would be, however.)

 

spelling (and to some degree writing) related

http://depts.washington.edu/nwst/issues/index.php?issueID=fall_2006&storyID=800

 

general information, bibliography

http://www.apa.org/research/action/reading.aspx

 

 

 

 

http://www.washington.edu/news/1999/10/04/dyslexic-children-use-nearly-five-times-the-brain-area/

 

 

[shinyhappypeople]

This is a main reason why I think HighNoon worked for my son--

It emphasized reading in context,

Reading simple texts very, very early in the program.

And texts increased in complexity rapidly as word knowledge increased.

No nonsense words till quite a ways into it--

and minimal even then, usually as names, for example.

Rather the opposite of Barton, in that regard.

 

Thanks for mentioning High Noon books. They look pretty great. 

[OneStepAtATime]

I have the feeling that my ds may have (or have had, not sure correct tense to use), more severe dyslexia than your dd...  He was not reading AT ALL in his brick and mortar schools, whereas I had the feeling that your dd had some reading ability, but a significant level of dyslexia that caught up with her (stealth?).  My ds still basically cannot read nonsense words, which may mean that some significant problems will still emerge later--as it is, the dyslexia always does have some impact on curriculum choices and he nearly always still learns far more easily from audio-visual materials when they are available. I'm not sure how that all will play out in the longer run.  Also, your dd is too far ahead for HighNoon, so far as I can tell, except maybe for some of its  high/low readers--which may also be of help for dd of OP in this thread. 

 

I realize that Barton is thought of for severe situations, and HN perhaps thought of for kids who can move faster through a shorter program, but in my son's case, I think there was too much of a glitch to surmount the nonsense words problem and he had to get to some in-context reading as soon as possible.

 

In any case, I think this sort of discussion may help this thread's OP as she thinks through what her dd needs.

 

I have a couple of links regarding some research that I want to post that may be relevant to trying to figure out some of the fit of program to child, but I am going to put them in a separate thread with a group of links rather than on this thread, since some may also be relevant to another current thread here.  Actually, I may as well do both since I can copy and paste pretty easily right now.

 

 

 

basic explanation for kids

https://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/dyslexia.html

 

brain differences may be result, not cause

http://explore.georgetown.edu/news/?ID=70686

(This one suggests that finding an effective program that will allow the child to start reading a lot ASAP can help to normalize the brain differences...that still does not actually say what the most effective program for a particular child would be, however.)

 

spelling (and to some degree writing) related

http://depts.washington.edu/nwst/issues/index.php?issueID=fall_2006&storyID=800

 

general information, bibliography

http://www.apa.org/research/action/reading.aspx

 

 

 

 

http://www.washington.edu/news/1999/10/04/dyslexic-children-use-nearly-five-times-the-brain-area/

Yeah, I hope this is helping the OP.  Sorry if it isn't, OP!

 

DD struggled a ton with reading, all through school.  Honestly, of the two, it would not be DD I would consider a stealth dyslexic even though she made it to 5th grade without a diagnosis.  She showed classic signs very early on.  Except for speaking very clearly and very early, she is just the poster child for most signs of dyslexia.  We just didn't know what we were looking at.  I started tutoring her after school every single day because it was obvious she was struggling.  I read everything to her.  I bought every textbook.  I created practice tests and had tons of parent teacher conferences.  But I knew nothing about dyslexia.

 

I was discouraged from seeking evals and maybe it was just as well.  The first evals we finally got were useless, led us in the wrong direction.  No one and I do mean no one here knew what they were talking about.  Specialized tutoring was useless too.  But she made it through and at least was reading books like Clifford in 5th grade.  She could read.  Just at a very, very basic level.  When we finally got a decent assessment, her evaluator said that the only reason she made it through 5th grade with decent grades was because I was working with her constantly every single day after school, because she was at a very small school that was willing to work with me and with her (even thought they knew nothing about learning challenges) and because she was a girl.  The evaluator said most teachers seem more inclined to work with and be supportive of a quiet, well behaved girl than a verbal, wiggly, boy.  Boys apparently usually end up being told it is a bad attitude that causes their learning struggles far more often than girls do.  Which is exactly what happened to DS.

 

Anyway, once I started DD on Barton, doors starting unlocking at a rapid rate.  Barton is working for her.  It may sometimes be a slog,  but I wouldn't switch her.  Even though she struggled far more in school than DS in those early grades, she is doing really well with Barton.  And even though she took way longer to complete those early levels of Barton than DS, she is functioning far better in the higher levels than he is.

 

For DS I just don't know.  He IS learning.  He can read subtitles on a lot of his dubbed documentaries now and his spelling improved.  Barton is definitely helping.  But he runs into glitches DD just doesn't.  If he didn't have those glitches I am guessing he would have whipped through at least the first 6 levels of Barton by now.  He just gets the rules really quickly.  In fact, if it weren't for those odd glitches, I am not certain he IS dyslexic.  He did great in school early on.  If I had mentioned back then that I thought something was wrong I would have been laughed at.  He got straight A's without even trying.  Now, he struggles with many things.  Of the two kids, he was definitely the stealth dyslexic in school, though.

 

I wish we had better answers.  And I wish he weren't so resistant to things now.  He used to be my compliant child with tons of confidence that loved learning. He isn't anymore.  He fights so much of what we are doing.  Maybe a change of pace would help his overall outlook.  He would be the one I would consider switching to High Noon and have considered that on several occasions.  Still trying to subtly incorporate LiPS like stuff into the Barton lessons so hopefully that will help.

[shinyhappypeople]

Yeah, I hope this is helping the OP.  Sorry if it isn't, OP!

 

It is ALL helping!  I'm very grateful for all the input, and am just kind of soaking it in.   I'm 90% sure she has stealth dyslexia.  Barring a formal diagnosis, I am going to proceed as if that's what's going on.  I can't imagine it will make things worse, and it may actually make things better.

 

DD is at the point where she desperately wants answers and wants to read.  She's a lot more cooperative with my efforts to figure out her brain than she was a few years ago.  I've felt something was off since about second grade.  She is SO smart, curious, and funny that I haven't known what to make of her difficulty with reading.  Then I learned about convergence insufficiency and put the weight of her struggles entirely on that. 

 

So, anyway she's finally willing to talk with me about what the experience of reading is like.  What I learned tonight:  she doesn't sound words out, she looks at a word and tries to remember if she knows it, she focuses on the overall shape of words not on the details of the letters.  

 

Anyway, I do appreciate all the discussion.  It's really helpful :)

[OneStepAtATime]

It is ALL helping!  I'm very grateful for all the input, and am just kind of soaking it in.   I'm 90% sure she has stealth dyslexia.  Barring a formal diagnosis, I am going to proceed as if that's what's going on.  I can't imagine it will make things worse, and it may actually make things better.

 

DD is at the point where she desperately wants answers and wants to read.  She's a lot more cooperative with my efforts to figure out her brain than she was a few years ago.  I've felt something was off since about second grade.  She is SO smart, curious, and funny that I haven't known what to make of her difficulty with reading.  Then I learned about convergence insufficiency and put the weight of her struggles entirely on that. 

 

So, anyway she's finally willing to talk with me about what the experience of reading is like.  What I learned tonight:  she doesn't sound words out, she looks at a word and tries to remember if she knows it, she focuses on the overall shape of words not on the details of the letters.  

 

Anyway, I do appreciate all the discussion.  It's really helpful :)

This was DD.  And why I think Barton worked for her.  It forced her to go back, slow down, recognize that words are made of parts and those parts go together in specific ways.  And if you know how to break apart those parts and put them back together you can decode almost any word.  They are no longer a mystery.  I think this is why OG programs work for so many dyslexics.  Just not all.

[Pen]

It is ALL helping!  I'm very grateful for all the input, and am just kind of soaking it in.   I'm 90% sure she has stealth dyslexia.  Barring a formal diagnosis, I am going to proceed as if that's what's going on.  I can't imagine it will make things worse, and it may actually make things better.

 

 

 

 

Likely that is so. When I started to find the programs for dyslexia, my thought is that they all, all the ones I looked into, seem to be better than the ordinary methods of teaching reading...only that some would be frustratingly slow for kids who don't need them.

 

 

 

 

DD is at the point where she desperately wants answers and wants to read.  She's a lot more cooperative with my efforts to figure out her brain than she was a few years ago.  I've felt something was off since about second grade.  She is SO smart, curious, and funny that I haven't known what to make of her difficulty with reading.  Then I learned about convergence insufficiency and put the weight of her struggles entirely on that. 

 

So, anyway she's finally willing to talk with me about what the experience of reading is like.  What I learned tonight:  she doesn't sound words out, she looks at a word and tries to remember if she knows it, she focuses on the overall shape of words not on the details of the letters.  

 

 

 

Maybe look at the first link I posted above and see if it seems like it'd be appropriate for her. It might help her to feel like there are answers for what she has been struggling with and that you will help her to get there, though it may take a few tries to get the right program for her. I think its second page mentions that Einstein and Edison had reading troubles too. Not that having reading trouble makes one a scientific genius, but it certainly doesn't mean one is stupid or destined for failure either.  Also maybe at least the basic idea that she may be using her brain 5x more (or working it harder) than people whose brains are different, but that with work, she may be able to have that get a lot easier...that work on a right program may actually change her brain so that she won't have to work it as hard to be able to read as she does now (but that she will have to work hard to get to that point).  All of those ideas are things that can be gleaned from the links I posted. My ds was definitely helped by being assured that with some hard work he would become a good reader, and by some understanding of how brains in general and his in particular seemed to be working.   Also a reading specialist told him that he was lucky to have (like your dd) a much harder time with decoding than comprehension--that the decoding problem was something that could be fixed much more easily than comprehension struggles. 

 

I'd suggest you look at both Barton and High Noon, and maybe also at Dancing Bears Fast Track, and maybe a few others as well...I never looked into the Davis system much, but one of the researchers at UW where I was just reading some articles thinks it fits what dyslexic learners need. The article I could not now find had reported on significant improvement in a featured child who had before and after functional MRIs and a remediation program done at UW which apparently either was or resembled Davis helped bring her brain into appearing more like non-dyslexic brains on scan...and more importantly from not being able to read much at all to enjoying Harry Potter.  Also recommended to me had been Language! which was among the ones tested by Sally Shaywitz at Yale as I understand it.  HN was developed to fit the research done at the time it was developed, rather than being around and getting tested in the research. I am not sure about Barton and DB in that regard. 

 

Whatever you choose,  probably best to start her right from the beginning because it sounds like she is using basic intelligence to get around not really being able to do sounding out and other such skills that may be from more fundamental building blocks missing than even the lowest of the Dora scores suggests.  She can move fast through anything she really does know, but it would help make sure there are not holes that she is compensating for, but that could be remedied in a way that would make things easier in the long run.

 

And be prepared to change to another system if the one you try first does not seem to work well for her.  But also be prepared to give it a good bit of effort before you ditch it. It is hard to know where to balance that.

 

If you've not seen the Gifted Hands movie, that can also be inspiring, since Ben Carson who goes on to become a neurosurgeon was barely able to read in 5th grade. Though Carson's problem was not due to an LD so far as I know, nonetheless the message of putting in hard work can be helpful if you/your dd need that at some point on this journey.