Hunter Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 THE KNOWLEDGE MOST WORTH HAVING pages 7-8 from Book by Book by Michael Dirda “Once in a class of graduate students,†recalled the distinguished Canadian Robertson Davies, “I met a young man who did not know who Noah was.†What should a person know of the world’s literature? It has always seemed obvious to me that the great patterning works ought to lie at the heart of any structured reading program. By “patterning works†I mean those that later authors regularly build on, allude to, work against. There aren’t that many of these key books, and they aren’t all obvious classics. Here’s the roughly chronological short list of those that the diligent might read through in a year or two. For such famous works you can hardly go wrong with any good modern editions, though the Bible the Authorized, or King James, Version is the one that has most influenced the diction and imagery of the English prose. The Bible (Old and New Testament) Bulfinch’s Mythology (or any other account of the Greek, Roman, and Norse Myths) Homer, The Iliad and the Odyssey Plutarch, Lives of the Noble Grecians and Romans Dante, Inferno The Arabian Nights Thomas Malory, Le Morte D’Arthur (tales of King Arthur and his knights) Shakespeare’s major plays, especially Hamlet, Henry IV, Part One, King Lear, A Midsummer Night’s Dream, and the Tempest Cervantes, Don Quixote Daniel Defoe, Robinson Crusoe Jonathan Swift, Gulliver’s Travels The fairy tales of the Brothers Grimm and Hans Christian Anderson Any substantial collection of the world’s major folktales Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice Lewis Caroll, Alice in Wonderland Arthur Conan Doyle, The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes Know these well, and nearly all of the world’s literature will be an open book to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 This list was discussed on the high school board, out of context, and in a thread devoted to a slightly different topic. Lets start over with the complete article and it's own thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 Anyone can discuss anything they want about this article. I personally am interested in what I can/should/need to use from it for K-8. But have at the list/article in any way that is useful to YOU. You don't need to direct your responses to ME as the OP. The article is here for YOU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 Oh, and I tried to retain the formatting and exact punctuation and anything to make the article look exactly like what was in the book. I tried to make sure I did not interpret or judge the article in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherry in OH Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Anyone can discuss anything they want about this article. I personally am interested in what I can/should/need to use from it for K-8. But have at the list/article in any way that is useful to YOU. You don't need to direct your responses to ME as the OP. The article is here for YOU. My thoughts on the titles are in blue. The Bible (Old and New Testament) I feel that for cultural literacy familiarity with some Bible stories is desirable. Selina Hasting’s Illustrated Children’s Bible would be a good choice for families who want basic understanding of the most commonly cited stories. My preference is to read a modern translation of the Bible prior to 8th grade. The archaic language of King James may be beautiful, but if the goal is to become familiar with the story, the language is a hindrance. Bulfinch’s Mythology (or any other account of the Greek, Roman, and Norse Myths) I would save Bulfinch’s for high school (or later) and those younger children who are really interested in mythology. There are plenty of child-friendly titles from which to choose for elementary and middle-grade children. Homer, The Iliad and the Odyssey There are plenty of versions suitable for children. Pick your favorite. Plutarch, Lives of the Noble Grecians and Romans Read other stories about key figures in the younger grades. Dante, Inferno Save for high school. The Arabian Nights Child-friendly adaptions are available. Thomas Malory, Le Morte D’Arthur (tales of King Arthur and his knights) Again, child-friendly versions are available. Shakespeare’s major plays, especially Hamlet, Henry IV, Part One, King Lear, A Midsummer Night’s Dream, and the Tempest There are lovely adaptations of the comedies for the younger set. Older children should be able to handle the originals. (For very sensitive children, stick with the comedies.) Cervantes, Don Quixote I would not attempt a full translation prior to 7th grade and would probably wait until high school. I would use an adapted version if I wanted to present the story to younger audiences. Daniel Defoe, Robinson Crusoe Jonathan Swift, Gulliver’s Travels Both of these could be read to/with upper elementary or middle school students. If you are concerned about decorum, choose an adaptation. The fairy tales of the Brothers Grimm and Hans Christian Anderson Any substantial collection of the world’s major folktales Select translations carefully, not all stories are suitable for today’s children. But, of course, read fairy tales and folk stories to young children. Reread with older children. Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice I would save this for high school. But, I have boys. A mature middle grade girl might enjoy it. Lewis Caroll, Alice in Wonderland Could be read to/with any age child. Younger children would probably prefer the nursery version. Arthur Conan Doyle, The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes Upper elementary maybe, middle grades certainly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smfmommy Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I think even if you don't read every word of the originals knowing about the books and plot lines is important. So many of our current plot lines are rehashed Austen or Shakespeare. Not to mention allusions to cliches or characters in these classics. Many of these can be introduced in elementary in some way. I don't think every book that is considered a classic needs to be read by every student, but awareness of great literature and how it impacted other literature, art, movies is important for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 Sherry, thank you so much for taking the time to comment on each title on the list! I'm reading your comments over and over, as I try to figure out what I think about each title, whether I want to teach it all, and if so which edition. smfmommy, I too have been thinking that there is no need to read every word of each title. Sometimes I'd rather use portions of an original, than use a retelling, when I don't want to use a complete unabridged edition. And many of these titles are translations and there is no original English version. But often there was an English translation that is a classic in itself. I'd like to provide a little something for each title and learn more about them for my own self-education. I've never read Pride and Prejudice. Have I missed something that important? I'm trying to read an overview of each of these titles. I read up a bit last night on the Inferno, and feel so much more informed without even having read the book. What do you all think about graphic novels of any of these titles? It can be so easy for me to have an instant reaction of dismissing the idea of graphic novels having any value, but they do provide art work of the setting and characters that is of value. I've been borrowing from the library picture books and graphic novels of some of these titles, and some of them are very pretty. Why do you think Aesop is not on this list? Maybe Aesop is about cultural literacy, but is not a "patterning work". I'm looking at a couple other lists to cover cultural literacy and children's literature separately. There is a lot of overlap in the lists, but I find patterning works, cultural literacy, and the best of children's literature to be different goals, that are best addressed separately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourisenough Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I'll soon begin Memoria Press's 3-year reading plan, entitled Introduction to Classical Studies, with my 9-year old. It has the students read The Golden Children's BIble, D'Aulaires' Greek Myths, and Famous Men of Rome in-full during each of the three years. I hope this will help her develop a strong relationship with these foundational stories. Additionally, of course, she is reading fairy tales, fables, and good, classic middle-grades novels, such as: Heidi, Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of Nimh, Johnny Tremain, Redwall, Witch of Blackbird Pond, and The Wind in the Willows. As stated by a previous poster, I think most of the titles on Dirda's list are best read in high school or college or in adaptation (excepting Alice and possibly a couple of the others). I do think his list is quite good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherry in OH Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Looking at your list, I am reminded of Mary’s advice to Katie in A Tree Grows in Brooklyn. “There are two great books. Shakespeare is a great book… and the Bible…†She continues …“And you must tell the child the legends I told you – as my mother told them to me and her mother to her. You must tell the fairy tales of the old country. You must tell of those not of the earth who live forever in the hearts of the people – fairies, elves, dwarfs, and such.†I fit Aesop in with fairy tales, myths, and legends. They are stories from the past that are still part of our culture today. (I would also include the Iliad, Odyssey, Arabian Knights, and King Arthur here.) Read those, read Shakespeare, and read the Bible and you will understand a lot of the allusions in literature. Add some adventure (Alice, Crusoe, Gulliver, Quixote, Holmes and the like), and an assortment of other fiction and nonfiction for variety. Regarding whether or not to read Pride and Prejudice, I loved Pride and Prejudice as a teen and have re-read it several times as an adult. I would recommend reading it, but that is because I like it. Your tastes may differ. I think adaptations and translations have their place. I have one child who would read anything if it is a graphic novel format. I would not want the graphic novel to be the child’s only exposure to a work. But as an introduction, why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 AO uses Bulfinch, but it reads like a textbook to me instead of a piece of literature. When looking at myths, I look for quotation marks, and if there are none, I tend to look for another version. I have The Norse Myths by Kevin Crossley-Holland from the library. I like that the scholarly parts are in the introduction and notes, but the stories are stories. I like all the scholarly parts to lead me to the next step and the "real" stuff. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0394748468/ref=kinw_rke_rti_1 The whole Pantheon Fairy Tale and Folklore Library looks good. I'm looking at the Pantheon edition for the World Folktale collection as well. Greek myths are so much easier to find than Roman Myths. I did find Shapeshifters: Tales from Ovid's Metamorphoses. I placed a hold with the library, but they are not sending the book. Sometimes I have to cancel and reset the hold. Our library is...well...inefficent. I'm not sure what I want for Roman and Greek myths. http://www.amazon.com/Shapeshifters-Tales-Metamorphoses-Adrian-Mitchell/dp/1845075366/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1394749014&sr=1-1&keywords=shapeshifters+ovid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 That's fun to link this list up with a novel. Pride and prejudice need to go on my LONG reading list. So many books; so little time. I checked if my library has the Inferno in a graphic novel, but they don't. I asked them to buy it. http://www.amazon.com/Dantes-Inferno-The-Graphic-Novel/dp/0963962116/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1394749639&sr=1-1&keywords=inferno+graphic+novel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 This is the Pantheon World Folktales. Has anyone read this? http://www.amazon.com/Favorite-Folktales-Pantheon-Folklore-Library/dp/0394751884/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1394749956&sr=1-1&keywords=pantheon+world+folktales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 I think I'm going to use The Boy's King Arthur. It's mostly the traditional Malory text, but edited and illustrated. I think someone at this forum suggested this book to me last week or the week before. http://www.amazon.com/The-Boys-King-Arthur-Malorys/dp/0684191113/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 Mainlesson.com has a lot of adaptions for children for this list Norse Myths http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=mabie&book=norse&story=_contents http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=colum&book=odin&story=_contents Iliad http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=church&book=iliad&story=_contents http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=langjean&book=iliad&story=led Odyssey http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=church&book=odyssey&story=_contents Plutarch http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=kaufman&book=plutarch&story=_contents http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=weston&book=plutarch&story=_contents http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=gould&book=romans&story=_contents http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=gould&book=greeks&story=_contents Stories from Dante http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=macgregor&book=dante&story=_contents Stories of Don Quixote http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=baldwin&book=quixote&story=_contents The Arabian Nights Entertainments http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=lang&book=arabian&story=_contents King Arthur and his Knights http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=warren&book=arthur&story=_back&PHPSESSID=5ec37c61adb707ed01e246109483e811 Shakespeare http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=lamb&book=shakespeare&story=_contents http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=nesbit&book=shakespeare&story=_contents Robinson Crusoe http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=baldwin&book=crusoe&story=_contents Gulliver http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=langjohn&book=gulliver&story=_contents Grimm http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=hunt&book=grimm&story=_contents Hans Christian Anderson http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=andersen&book=wonder&story=_contents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 Heritage History collection includes many titles http://www.heritage-history.com/index.php?c=library#folk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Thanks for the links. I ventured over to amazon to read the description of what this book was about and what it described about literature teaching us how to live is exactly what I've been reading about in chapter two of The Story-Killers. It was an awesome read. (Hunter, if you ever have a break in the big long "to read" list and want to peak at it, let me know and I'll loan it to you) This is a tangental thought but I constantly have to battle this inclination to associate the reading of literature with indulgence and laziness that people who are diligent and vigilant over the proper use of their time do not do. I even struggle with the crazy thought that keeping my house in a state of dustlessness is a more worthy use of time than indulging myself "selfishly" in literature. (this doesn't mean I spend my time cleaning instead of reading - it means I spend my time reading but feeling guilty and "not worth so much") *sigh* I guess my culture (or whatever) has taught me how to live more so than literature and I have learned that to live well means to be busy and produce much. My inner being is in rebellion against it but imbued with guilt for the fact. Reminds me of the Beast People on Dr Moreau's island wrestling between their natural instincts and The Law that has been impressed upon them to keep them under control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 SCGS, I asked my library to buy the book. They are HORRIBLE about ILL, but they let me request that they buy up to 5 books a week, and usually will buy about 4 out the 5 I ask for. I was wondering how you liked the book after reading it. Thank for the offer of borrowing it! Let me see if the library buys it. I bet they do. If they do, it will just show up in my holds list in 1-3 weeks, as "on order". I read SO much fiction as a child. I don't know when that changed. About the time I started afterschooling, and thinking about homeschooling, I guess. Fiction is what made me who I am today, but despite knowing that, I crowd it out of the curriculum now. I'm trying to come up with a few fiction lists. I'm finding it easier to find what I am looking for by going after several different lists and then will combine them. The lists I'm compiling so far are patterning works, cultural literacy, children's classics, and the American experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 Dover has coloring books for most of these books. http://www.amazon.com/Norse-Gods-Goddesses-Dover-Coloring/dp/0486433374/ref=pd_sim_b_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=054T4KKJ9ZKGSYZTYQ9M http://store.doverpublications.com/by-subject-coloring-books-regular-coloring.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 I was given a present by someone today. I chose Dante's Divine Comedy in a beautiful red leather edition with illustrations by Gustave Dore and translated by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow. It sure is pretty. I almost chose Pride and prejudice, but this book was so much prettier! I wonder if there is any good audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Sounds gorgeous. Two more books I haven't read. :-/ I'm only Up to chapter four in The Story-Killers. I've learned that I have to pace my non-fiction reading and intersperse it with much fiction. I finished The Island of Doctor Moreau after chapter two and was trying to decide which H. G. Wells novel to read next while reading chapter three when the author used The Scarlet Letter to demonstrate the difference in how literature "discussion" is typically done in school these days and how it should be done. That's another book I haven't read and I was inspired to do so by the discussion. Meanwhile, I actually spent the evening reading Hawthorne's autobiographical introduction which has rekindled my curiosity over early U.S. History. I learned he was a friend of Longfellow's. I'd like to see the list you draw up. I've missed quite a few key works. I feel like I need to take myself back to the nursery rhymes and tales and work my way back up. I just don't feel "grown up" enough to read some of these oft listed books - like when it becomes apparent that these guys read their fairy tales and my meager childhood Disney diet has been found wanting. Reading to my children has helped some but I need to do it more. They are the only reason I understood the Blue Beard reference in The Island of Dr Moreau. (Although I wonder who actually reads that tale to their children these days considering our modern sensibilities .. besides me, I mean.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I just wanted to point out that I suspect the distinguished Canadian in the OP was the famous novelist Robertson Davies, not Robert Davies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 I just wanted to point out that I suspect the distinguished Canadian in the OP was the famous novelist Robertson Davies, not Robert Davies. Thank you so much for pointing out that typo! I fixed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Sounds gorgeous. Two more books I haven't read. :-/ I'm only Up to chapter four in The Story-Killers. I've learned that I have to pace my non-fiction reading and intersperse it with much fiction. I finished The Island of Doctor Moreau after chapter two and was trying to decide which H. G. Wells novel to read next while reading chapter three when the author used The Scarlet Letter to demonstrate the difference in how literature "discussion" is typically done in school these days and how it should be done. That's another book I haven't read and I was inspired to do so by the discussion. Meanwhile, I actually spent the evening reading Hawthorne's autobiographical introduction which has rekindled my curiosity over early U.S. History. I learned he was a friend of Longfellow's. I'd like to see the list you draw up. I've missed quite a few key works. I feel like I need to take myself back to the nursery rhymes and tales and work my way back up. I just don't feel "grown up" enough to read some of these oft listed books - like when it becomes apparent that these guys read their fairy tales and my meager childhood Disney diet has been found wanting. Reading to my children has helped some but I need to do it more. They are the only reason I understood the Blue Beard reference in The Island of Dr Moreau. (Although I wonder who actually reads that tale to their children these days considering our modern sensibilities .. besides me, I mean.) Yesterday, I was looking at the list and trying to judge it, especially the last 3 modern books, but have decided to just read it. I think I will get a real sense of accomplishment from reading it. I also decided to stop worrying about what I will do with students, and which versions I would want to read with them and in what order. I've decided to just choose volumes I want to own for NOW, not thinking too much about what I think the future will bring, and just read the volumes I WANT to read. In the past when life turned upside down i always turned to the KJV Bible as my literature. I still try that, but it leaves me hollow now. I really think this list will fill that hole. Pretty much no matter where life takes me, and what worldview changes I experience this list will never become entirely inapplicable to that worldview. Yes, it is VERY Western, but I am Western. I'm not much else other than Western, with all the moves and changes I have experienced. Through my partnerships and my mother's, I've lived with non Western people and temporarily adopted some of their ways, but never truly became part of their world. Being Western is ONE thing I feel I can claim just a bit. Throughout my life, I'll use different editions and translations of this list, but I think I have finally found my fallback, go-to, when all else fails, must-do literature "school" list. And I'll come with another short feel-good book list, as a supplement, really focused on emotional impact, but not any type of cultural literacy or schooling goals. Every time I read through this list, it just fills me with a feeling of reassurance. I can do this list, and feel like it's worth doing. I'm sure there are many lists as good, but I don't feel like this list is inferior to those lists. I feel like I can rest with this list, without any sort of guilt. Yes, maybe I'll constantly re-decide which volume/edition/translation is better, and what order to read them in, but the main list itself seems stable, enough. And as for the violence and yuck factor, right now, I'm happy to take that on full force. My current worldview is so very very cynical. I think I'm better understanding the choice of Bulfinch, with room to choose something else. Especially when it comes to Roman myths, there isn't a lot to choose from. For NOW, I personally am going to read Bulfinch's Age of Fable part of the mythology. And if the book I choose includes the entire mythology, I might just use it for the Arthur stories too, and skip Le Morte d'Arthur. My main library doesn't have any Dante audio that matches the Longfellow translation. I'm going to have to check the other libraries I have cards with. The audio for other translations sure is nicer than the Longfellow ones I heard at audible.com. There is a whispersync set for $4.00, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorrelZG Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 SCGS, I asked my library to buy the book. They are HORRIBLE about ILL, but they let me request that they buy up to 5 books a week, and usually will buy about 4 out the 5 I ask for. I was wondering how you liked the book after reading it. Thank for the offer of borrowing it! Let me see if the library buys it. I bet they do. If they do, it will just show up in my holds list in 1-3 weeks, as "on order". . I finished it. Honestly, I read through chapter five, sped read through six, began skipping pages through seven, skipped most of eight, and picked up reading again at nine - not because of anything wrong with the book but because the subject matter was excruciatingly painful (CC/public school specific stuff). I loved the introduction, chapters 2 and 9, and the conclusion. Those were more on liberal education with chapter 9 laying out what a true common core for high school should actually look like, with a brief overview of the why behind the book selections and progression and an idea of what the child would have accomplished/read prior to it (very briefly) in order to be prepared. I'm going to consider the idea of taking myself through the plan he lays out, though it would take me longer than four years. I will continue plodding along with Latin, also, being patient with myself in all these things. Meanwhile, I am encouraged in the path I am on regarding the children in my care. I was debating whether to post you this update on this thread or not the Quintilian/LCC thread. All these things are stewing in my mind. Meanwhile, I was just the other day thinking of the quote in your signature about math and leaven, thinking that I want to ask you about that quote, and then I wander into a thread where you mentioned that quote just "today" (today for me, at least) and linked to a book which is now on my Kindle and lined up for my next read. Since I'm feel all focused about Latin and literature, my approach to math is looking quite unruly and in need of revision (we are on break from formal math until that is accomplished). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 For math, I also like the math section in Blumenfeld's How to Tutor http://www.amazon.com/How-Tutor-Sam-Blumenfeld-ebook/dp/B006OF6D7O/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1395403561&sr=1-1&keywords=how+to+tutor and A Guide to American Christian education for the home and school: The principle approach http://www.amazon.com/Guide-American-Christian-education-school/dp/0961620110/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1395403654&sr=1-3&keywords=principle+approach+christian I know you can't get this right now, but, it was fundamental in shaping my philosophies on math teaching. It's not that different that How to Tutor, but provides an outline of arithmetic that made my OCD Parts-to-whole self swoon with delight. Thanks for the update on the book! I still don't know about the library copy, yet. 2 days ago i received a notice that they are buying a book, 3 further up my list of requests, so I figure by the end of the week, I might get a notice they are buying it. My fingers are crossed on that book and "Simply Classical". One thing I have learned, is that asking for a particular audio book on the Dirda list gets me the book in just 3 days! They bought me 2 audio books that fast! That's encouragement to read fiction instead of nonfiction ABOUT fiction. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I like that list. It's short and doable. It makes sense. I agree with Sherry on most of her points by title, although I did have to read hers and think about it a bit. My kids are all aware of the difference between an abridged book and a non-abridged and I find it somewhat ammusing that they get excited when I pull out the 'real' book finally. I do introduce some stories (such as the Illiad) through child friendly versions. My oldest found the unabridged version on my dh's aunts bookcase this fall and spent most the holiday with his nose glued to it. I was never raised on the classics, but watching my kids as they develop their language and wade through old ideas and thoughts, making them their own, adapting them to the present, that has made me appreciate these old books more than I ever though possible. My oldest ds has decided that the Illiad is the best book ever written so far. He has speech problems. His speech has developed depth from these books. It sounds strange to some people, but since his speech was always a little strange to most who heard him, I'm glad that literature like this has at least made it strange in a correct and meaningful way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 My oldest ds has decided that the Illiad is the best book ever written so far. He has speech problems. His speech has developed depth from these books. It sounds strange to some people, but since his speech was always a little strange to most who heard him, I'm glad that literature like this has at least made it strange in a correct and meaningful way. That is not strange at ALL. My youngest always spoke as if he was a brilliant person whose first language was something other than English. The reading he did made it immediately evident he had something to say worth listening to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbbulliv Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Hunter, I don't know if you like self help books at all, but there is a book called Dante's Path by Richard and Bonney Schaub that I just love. I am on my third time reading it. This time I am just reading a little every morning. Anyway, it describes Dante's work in terms of spiritual growth I guess. It explained a lot to me about Dante as well as being helpful personally. It would be a fun read along. I bet the library has it. Best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 Hunter, I don't know if you like self help books at all, but there is a book called Dante's Path by Richard and Bonney Schaub that I just love. I am on my third time reading it. This time I am just reading a little every morning. Anyway, it describes Dante's work in terms of spiritual growth I guess. It explained a lot to me about Dante as well as being helpful personally. It would be a fun read along. I bet the library has it. Best. That sounds interesting. I'll look for it. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndOfOrdinary Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 FWIW my fourth grader and I are listening to the Odyssey read by Ian Mckellan (Gandalf!) on YouTube right now. It is broken up into individual books so we listen to one or two at a time, pause, discuss, and move forward. We listened to Beowulf earlier in the year in the same format from an Old English professor at Oxford through iTunesU. Both were wonderful. Is he going to get everything that he could out of the stories now? No way. But, if you read the closing quote it says, "Know these well." You cannot know something well after a single or even double readings. Knowing something well means reading, rereading, finding the content in your life, and making the story yours. It comes from intimate knowledge of the characters and the plot. My son was so startled with the scene at the table between Menolaus, Helen, and Telemachus in Book Four of the Odyssey. Menolaus openly berates his wife saying she wanted to kill the Greeks and she calls herself a whore for going with Paris. Next, she then says she ways scared to death to be away and is so glad she is safely home with her husband. He wanted to know what the truth was - Did she want to go and run away with Paris, or not? There is no answer for this question, only great discussion. That is why the book is classic! I love that now I can realize all the dramatically feminist thoughts and speeches in this work. Never picked up on them in high school. Every time you read it, there is more. It hits you where you are in your life. This is its enduring quality. To dismiss classics as only appropriate for high school is to miss their inherent value. My son gets different things out of them now than he will later, but I want the stories to be part of him, so we will read them almost every other year from 4th grade on. By 7 the grade we will have read or listened to the entire list in its original. This way by 9th grade, they are not scary or overly intense just by the stigmatization of academia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 1, 2014 Author Share Posted April 1, 2014 Yes, I think this list needs to be reread. Sometimes in different editions. I'm trying to invest in pretty copies of the unadapted and unabridged volumes, but have also been seeing what the library has for picture books. Yesterday's Classics and Heritage History have some nice retellings. As I'm trying to decide which YC and HH and Adelaide eBooks to put on my new Kindle Paperwhite, maybe I should turn it into the Dirda reader. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critterfixer Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I'd simply add that having beautiful pictures to go with those works is important. I think sometimes we seriously underestimate the value of artwork in a story for children. And I'm not talking about little children, but older children as well. One of my favorite literature books I read in eighth grade included works of art that went with the stories. To this day when I think about those stories I think about the pictures and how they impressed me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted April 1, 2014 Author Share Posted April 1, 2014 It's so convenient to download a file that is just text into an eReader, but I'm finding that often "a picture is worth a 1000 words". When I just don't have a book with illustrations, it helps to use Google Images or Wikipedia to bring up pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share Posted June 27, 2014 Amazon is not selling these 2 items as a whispersync set anymore, but they work as one on my Kindle Fire. Or maybe they just don't show up as a set for me because I already own them. Anyway I have this audio http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Stories/dp/B001NJ5XG8/ref=tmm_aud_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1403833991&sr=1-1 And this Kindle book http://www.amazon.com/Wonder-Book-Bible-Stories-Illustrated-ebook/dp/B00A8JVC6Y/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1403833991&sr=1-1&keywords=wonder+book+of+bible+stories And I use the AO Year One 36 week reading schedule with it. http://amblesideonline.org/charts/Y1_36wk_chart.pdf This gives my beginning students an overview of the Bible and the chance to hear all those names of people and places pronounced properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share Posted June 27, 2014 I don't think anyone should limit themselves to this list who doesn't want to. It's awfully nice to have it to fall back on when you are feeling like this, though. :willy_nilly: When I am :crying: and :confused1: I fall back into a Robinson Curriculum routine: math, phonics/writing, and reading from the Dirda list and only whatever else I want to read and have available to read. For reading lists I have been looking at TWTM, AO, and Stobaugh, and am getting so confused and overwhelmed, but I keep looking at the Dirda list and telling myself that whatever else I do is just gravy and I need to take a :chillpill: and RELAX. Students need Dirda and SOMETHING else, but what that something else is is just not that critical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate in Arabia Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 As a Muslim I'm trying to get some exposure to Biblical stories. I know some of them where they overlap with the Quran (ie virgin birth of Jesus) but there are stories in the Bible which are not included at all in the Quran. I know you weren't asking me, but how I covered this was through ds' literary analysis curriculum, but it could be easily replicated. There was a unit on Biblical allusions, they gave a list or chart of the most common ones. I had ds read through the list and I checked whether he was familiar with the stories behind them all -- there were many he did not know, so I pulled out our Bible and had him use those as a base for reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourisenough Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I know you weren't asking me, but how I covered this was through ds' literary analysis curriculum, but it could be easily replicated. There was a unit on Biblical allusions, they gave a list or chart of the most common ones. I had ds read through the list and I checked whether he was familiar with the stories behind them all -- there were many he did not know, so I pulled out our Bible and had him use those as a base for reading. Ooooo, what literary analysis curriculum were you using? I'd love to read/do that chapter for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momacacia Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 This thread makes me think of our babysitter now in college who broke up with one of her boyfriends because he didn't know who Dickens was. I'm sure there were other reasons but I thought it really funny that her mom said that was a key point. Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I am going to get thrown out of the Well Trained Mind community for writing this, but I don't think Shakespeare should ever be read until required. They are plays meant to be enjoyed in person or watched. I take my kids to see the plays as often as possible and allow them to watch the movies if they use the original language. My personal experience is that I hated Shakespeare when I read it and couldn't understand why anyone would enjoy it. It was only when I experienced it as he meant for it to be experienced that it made sense and was enjoyable. For me trying to read it, is like expecting a musician to enjoy a beautiful piece of music by reading the notes instead of hearing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I am going to get thrown out of the Well Trained Mind community for writing this, but I don't think Shakespeare should ever be read until required. They are plays meant to be enjoyed in person or watched. I take my kids to see the plays as often as possible and allow them to watch the movies if they use the original language. My personal experience is that I hated Shakespeare when I read it and couldn't understand why anyone would enjoy it. It was only when I experienced it as he meant for it to be experienced that it made sense and was enjoyable. For me trying to read it, is like expecting a musician to enjoy a beautiful piece of music by reading the notes instead of hearing them. Hmmm. That's interesting. I enjoy reading the plays more because when I'm watching live by the time I've figured out some zinger I've missed the next thing. Maybe I'm just slow.... :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 I think the reading/watching thing is a learning preference like being shown/reading instructions. I have read far more Shakespeare than I have watched. I will confess to not having read a lot of the things on the list - I have done the research as the allusion came up. I tried a long reading list when I was in my teens but I for some reason only completed Shakespeare, some Jane Austen and Bronte, and Mein Kampf. Beats me but I just couldn't manage all of Homer, Marx, Spencer and a host of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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