Will WTM recs *really* prepare my kids for high school lit?

[Momto6inIN]

This is my 1st year homeschooling.  We loosely follow WTM, but not completely.  Right now my 4th & 6th & 8th grader are each doing Progeny Press lit guides for novels that correspond to the period of history that we're studying, are at each of their appropriate reading levels, and are of their own choosing (4 each for the year).  They are all voracious readers and have loved reading from an early age.  So I was surprised to hear my 4th grader (who would have trouble pulling her nose out of a book if the house were on fire!) tell a friend while discussing their favorite and least favorite subjects that she "hates literature".  And my 6th grader takes for.ev.er. to finish his each week.  I'm starting to worry that the literature guides are sucking the love of reading right out of them.  :crying:

 

So I re-read WTM to possibly re-evaluate my approach to grammar & logic stage reading.  I do like the simplicity of it ... just read good quality literature and talk about it and write a summary of it, adding a bit more evaluation each year as they progress through the logic stage.  But since this is my 1st year homeschooling I'm still a bit nervous not to have a curriculum to hold my hand through it.  I'd like them to be able to use Windows to the World and Excellence in Literature to guide us through the Great Books and the classics in high school.  Will just reading and discussion and summaries *really* be enough to prepare them for that level of work?  What if they make it to 9th grade and don't know what alliteration is?  Or without knowing being able to find the theme of a novel?  Or what a metaphor is?  LOL etc. etc.  I'd really appreciate some reassurance from those of you who have been there and done that.  Thanks so much!

[RootAnn]

Can't say I've BTDT, but have you checked out Teaching The Classics? Or, how about Deconstructing Penguins? 

 

If you don't like those, you could always work through Figuratively Speaking the year before you start WttW or EiL. 

 

. . . And if you want to be reassured (while also learning about learning literary analysis with young kids), check out this audio called "Reading Comprehension from Seuss to Socrates."

[texasmama]

What Root Ann said :)

 

I love literature and have never used lit guides. What we do is read great books, including many classics.

 

I am teaching a literature analysis class at our co op with about ten kids, including my own two boys. I am using a Deconstructing Penguins style analysis while covering literary terms based on Figuratively Speaking.

 

I read aloud a lot to my kids, even the olders.

 

I want them to love literature, not have the fun sucked out by assigning a lot of reading comprehension questions. I do refer to some free lit guides at times for discussion ideas for my class, which is helpful. I love the group discussion aspect of lit analysis, but I could do it with just my two boys.

 

I have a minor in English for my undergrad degree so I do have some knowledge of lit analysis. I think anyone could easily start from scratch using Deconstructing Penguins and Figuratively Speaking, though.

 

ETA: I also own Teaching the Classics. It is well done.

[redsquirrel]

Well, for that vocabulary stuff (what is alliteration) I had my 6th grader work through Figuratively Speaking. He did one exercise a week and got through the book in a school year. It wasn't a big deal.

 

We do mostly read and discuss our books. I guide the discussion though. I usually just google for a discussion guide or a reading guide and ask some questions from those. I find having a few questions to kick us off stops me from drawing a blank. I often google something like "(name of book) middle school reading guide" or "(name of book) chapter by chapter guide" etc In those I find plenty questions to get us to theme or symbolism etc.

 

Our writing program does address learning how to write about literature and poetry.

[Ellie]

 

Will just reading and discussion and summaries *really* be enough to prepare them for that level of work?  What if they make it to 9th grade and don't know what alliteration is?  Or without knowing being able to find the theme of a novel?  Or what a metaphor is?  LOL etc. etc.  I'd really appreciate some reassurance from those of you who have been there and done that.  Thanks so much!

 

I'm pretty sure I didn't learn about "alliteration" until high school. I don't ever remember looking for themes in a novel until at least seventh grade. Ditto with "metaphor."

 

I think what you're doing now sounds fine. The longer you homeschool, the more you might feel able and comfortable to work in alliterations and metaphors and finding themes in novels. :-)

[Momto6inIN]

Thanks for the replies!  I liked the look of Figuratively Speaking a lot - just the right amount of hand holding for me without beating them over the head with it, which I think was what was happening with the lit guides.  I appreciate the suggestion and the encouragement!  :)

[My3girls]

No lit studies until 8th grade. We're just reading for enjoyment and exposure until then. It worked ok with me... I think. Lol

[Carol in Cal.]

Yes, absolutely the best preparation for high school lit.

I speak as the mother of a kid who tested into honors lit AND honors global studies for ninth grade on the strength of her reading skills.

We never used a lit guide.

We used the WTM recommendations and applied them to various different works that looked like good ones to read.  We didn't beat every single book that she read to death--pleasure reading was also emphasized.

We also used Junior Great Books through about 5th grade or so, which was helpful in getting ready to formulate a thesis statement.

And I used Figuratively Speaking to assist in learning some of the language of lit analysis, although we didn't do the full exercises, just learned the terms and then used them in conversation and short essays.

 

DD's ninth grade English teacher was the head of the English department at her fairly academic Catholic high school, and told me that she was extremely well prepared for literary discussion and for writing about books.  Honestly, if anything she was a bit overprepared because they emphasized the 5 paragraph essay so much at that level, and it was too simple and one-sided for her.

[Penelope]

I keep looking at lit. guides and even buying them sometimes. But I hate them all! LOL. I never end up using them more than a couple of weeks, and then we go back to reading and discussing books. Mostly a lot of reading. I do like Figuratively Speaking. It doesn't take a lot of time.

 

SWB's mp3 on teaching literature is great. I have always believed what she is saying, but I believe it more and more strongly the more experience I have.

[SilverMoon]

If a conversation my oldest and I just had is any indication, yes. He read the kiddie picture books of the Odyssey in grammar stage, the Sutcliff version in logic stage, and now in high school he is reading a translation instead of retellings.

 

Earlier today I casually mentioned the reason why he doesn't need extra titles in his the literature portion of his English credit was because the Greats he's reading for history are meaty enough to fulfill both. He did a double-take. "You mean *I've* been reading -the- Great Books?! That's really kewl." TWTM and VP had him so well-prepared for the Greats that he never noticed when he got there. :)

[angela in ohio]

Literature guides are tools for teachers who are managing a classroom or don't want to read the book. ;)

 

Yes, really, they will be fine. Discussion with an interested adult who has also read the book is so far superior to a literature guide, even.

 

My oldest dd is finishing the last few months of her high school Great Books education. She scored perfectly(800) on her SAT Subject Test in literature, and a 770 on her SAT English. I created a list of Good Books for her to read in 2nd-8th grade, and we followed it. We discussed a portion of them, and some she just read. She also read voraciously on her own (no TV, free time, books all over in the home, and other various ways I induced reading.) She loves literature, even as she has shifted to computer science and engineering in high school.

 

I would say this: it is far easier, when ninth grade comes around, to teach them some terms and methods for analyzing literature than it is to spend four years dragging them through literature studies. So I say your primary goal is the enjoyment.

 

One thing I do in many subjects that I "save for later" is to study it myself and then work bits into conversation. Think of a momma bird feeding a baby bird. :) I do it for logic, for literature study, for rhetoric, for algebra, and so on. I start working the concepts into our discussions at a level they can understand, using correct terminology so that they are comfortable when we transition later. There are resources to use for teaching yourself, and I always choose something like that over a guide for one book, for example.

 

 

[LivingHope]

You prepare your children by preparing yourself. Read, read, read...ready, set, go!

[Momto6inIN]

Living Hope et al ~

I have to admit, the best part of homeschooling is all the books I "have" to read so I can discuss them with them!  ;)  As in, "Honey, can you finish up the dishes tonight?  I have to finish reading this book so I'm ready for our discussion tomorrow!"  LOL

[Wildiris]

My youngest is not much of a reader. I recently picked up Mosdos Pearl for her. My initial impressions are that this text will cover more literary analysis than I could cobble together on my own while at the same time working against a picky reader. I am hopeful that after going through these texts my youngest will not struggle as much in a high school literature class. I also like that the text covers more than just story. It includes non fiction, plays, and poetry. It is a well thought out program.

 

My older DD reads all the time. She also writes. I did very little literary analysis with her, and she did a few years of Lightning Literature. Like Angela in Ohio's dd, my DD also scored in the high 700s on the SAT for English without much effort. Math.....she's working on that. 

[EndOfOrdinary]

If you want to be sure they are getting the buzzwords, drop them into conversation and play silly games. We really hit alliteration by playing games where one person picks a letter and the other person has to string as many word in a row with the letter. Sassy snakes slithers silently. It is ridiculous and not very literary, but he remembers. We do the same thing with similar/metaphors. One person picks an object and an adjective like dog and stinky. The other has to create a simile or metaphor. The dog had a scent like three week old compost lying in the humid Georgia sun. With mood and tone we take the sentence, "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" and say it different ways. One person picks an emotion and the other person has to change the mood or tone with the way they say the sentence. Originally you had to keep the sentence the same, but we had amended it to allow the speaker to add in adjectives. We play a game where one person gives the climax moment in a story and the other person provides the rising action and denouement. Steve showed up for homeschool group in a frilly pink nightgown wearing clown shoes. My son would have to explain the incident that made the conflict moment, and how it was resolved. Sometimes we do "themes of the day." This is normally to lighten up hard days or ridiculous days.

 

It has helped my son with writing and he thinks it is a lot of fun. Generally the sillier the better. You can play a lot of figurative language games without the kids realizing it is school.

 

Again, haven't BTDT. This could totally backfire when my son gets to high school, but he regularly identifies the literary devices in classics we read aloud listen to. He also asks to play the games quite a bit. I guess that means it is working.

[texasmama]

My kids have known what alliteration is since they were first graders because of techniques of teaching such as EndofOrdinary mentions.  I discuss literary terms in our every day reading of literature and poetry.

[Walking-Iris]

I don't think lit guides are necessary. Some of them can be useful as a resource, but I wouldn't use them as assignments or even tag a word like "literature" to a subject. 

 

This year we've been reading and studying books from the Newbery list. And reading Caldecott books with my littles. It's just fun. And a bit more organized than our usual way of reading.

 

Another gentle way I've used to address lit terms is through using the bravewriter arrow guides.

 

I think if a child can say they hate literature, then they may be overly aware of reading and discussing books as a school subject. I'd back off and simply try to enjoy books from all genres and time periods for their own sake.

 

Occasionally it could be fun to add some project or extra study to a book. My kids enjoy brief unit study rabbit trails like that. But only occasionally imo. Assignments or study all the time, every book, would suck my joy of reading as well.

[2_girls_mommy]

We had zero lit in middle school., seriously none.  We had an hour of writing class where some of the stuff was taught and discussed (alliteration, etc.) but we were assigned no literature or reading besides the occasional poetry unit again in the writing hour.  We had a grammar hour as well, but no lit or reading in there either.  We had lots of literature in elem. school.  Teachers read to us, took us to the library, assigned book reports, and checked our lists of what we had read, but nothing in middle school.  I went to a top school in our state too, btw. (of course this was a long time ago.  I have no knowledge of what the schools do now for middle school lit.)

[Walking-Iris]

We had zero lit in middle school., seriously none.  We had an hour of writing class where some of the stuff was taught and discussed (alliteration, etc.) but we were assigned no literature or reading besides the occasional poetry unit again in the writing hour.  We had a grammar hour as well, but no lit or reading in there either.  We had lots of literature in elem. school.  Teachers read to us, took us to the library, assigned book reports, and checked our lists of what we had read, but nothing in middle school.  I went to a top school in our state too, btw. (of course this was a long time ago.  I have no knowledge of what the schools do now for middle school lit.)

 

I find that odd. So what did you read?

[2_girls_mommy]

I was a reader, always was. but there was nothing assigned those years. not that I am doing the same for my dds...

[Clear Creek]

For step-by-step instructions in lit discussions that will more than adequately prepare your kids for high school lit, watch this Ask Andrew video.  Honestly, the instruction in this video could almost take you through high school lit, as well.