Give me your secular TWTM in a box wish list.

[Lovedtodeath]

So... I think there are a lot of people who want this, but I was curious as to why it is needed specifically. Does History Oddysey work for the History or no... why? Obviously SOTW needs more secular activity suggestions. We would need readers that correspond with History included... right?

 

Same question with REAL Science Oddysey.

 

Would it be good to include a year of World Geography that is secular? American History? Of course, the option to follow the 4 year rotation will remain.

 

Do we want to follow TWTM recommendations to the letter and just schedule them all out?

 

I think many would want an LA with a Scope & Sequence like Rod and Staff that is secular. Am I right?

 

Are we wanting every subject in a schedule like Sonlight? Or what?

 

Hit me with your ideas. I don't know if I will pursue it, b/c it would take a lot of initial investment, but I am intrigued.

[Lovedtodeath]

I have seen people sighing and wishing for TWTM in a box. I agree with you for the most part and I am wondering what they are really asking for. :)

 

I just have to complain... I thought I had three replies. You tricked me!:tongue_smilie:

[Lovedtodeath]

This website also seems to have a problem with TWTM. http://www.hsfreethinkers.com/curricula It is marked with a "not secular" symbol, when "secular with reservations" or "not-secular with reservations" are other options.

 

The book recommends Christian curricula and requiries due diligence and substitutions for secular use.

[Haiku]

I guess I feel like TWTM already is a curriculum in a box (or book, as the case may be). It tells you what to use and how to use it. The only thing a parent has to do is gather the materials. Is having them all shipped to you "in a box" the only thing that would change from what it is to being a "curriculum in a box"?

 

I think TWTM is the best of both worlds. People who don't feel secure picking their own materials or scheduling them can just do exactly what TWTM says to do. People (like me) who want freedom and flexibility can take the ideas of TWTM and the resource suggestions and tailor them to their individual needs. I really think TWTM is a one-stop homeschooling shop!

 

Tara

[Macrina]

No,

I get this- I wouldn't use it, but I get how people want to go to a website and "click" have their curriculum. TWTM is "eclectic" in the sense it's not hsing-in-a-box. It's a whole curriculum in a book, but not in a box.

 

BUT if I was SWB I wouldn't ever want a WTM in a box to be availible. It would keep people from reading the book and truly "getting it." My guess is she rolls her eyes enough everyday over poeple who don't "get it." If someone could just "click" and have a WTM cirriculum at their door, well, they would never undertand the trivium or any of the other wisdom you gain from reading TWTM. For exampe someone would have their WTM-in-a-box show up and toss the latin book, thinking "Latin? forget it." You gotta read TWTM to understand the "why Latin" !!! lol!

 

Anyway, that's just me thinking outloud.

[arcara]

I would love WTM history in a box! With all the books packaged like SL and a reading schedule!! That's my dream since I started learning more about SL over the past couple of months. I've honestly been wondering why someone hasn't put this together yet. I would think there would be a big market for it. I've been frustrated this year reserving tons of books from the library and trying to figure out what we should read. I would love good, intriguing, age-appropiate, reading level appropriate books scheduled for us to read. I know. I'm asking a lot. But, someone did it for SL, so... :)

 

Of course, it's also scary for me to trust someone else's choices...For instance, I was pre-reading some books for my 2nd grader next year for the Middle Ages. One book recommending in the WTM, was "Sir Gawain and the Loathly Lady." It was NOT something I would want my dd to read, and I'm really glad that I pre-read it. It had a serious cursing incident, IMO, and a lot of wedding night stuff. Anyway... Just rambing. I have to go, but I'll definitely keep an eye on this thread!! :)

[Colleen in SEVA]

What I wish existed for secular homeschoolers is an a la carte "in the box" option. I want to be able to pick from 2 or 3 different programs for each subject, choose what level I need for that subject, and I want to have a daily schedule with a regular-speed option and an accelerated-speed option. This should also include a book list and supply list for the whole year up front.

 

I also want the option to purchase the schedule by itself, the schedule with all of the needed resources, or the schedule with all of the resources AND all of the books (like Sonlight I guess, without the guilt trip if I don't want to buy the books).

 

If you had all of the schedules in soft copy, you could insert which programs/levels I was using all onto one planning sheet. You could print each customer's schedule specific to what they are actually using. You know -- I would be willing to pay just for this service, and it would be totally easy for someone to set up. This way there wouldn't be items you would have to stock, and your only investment would be your time!

 

You could have options to include (secular!) memory work, copywork/dictation related to what is being studied that week, and ideas for writing prompts for older students.

 

The other thing I wish existed was a secular (ideally using classics) online book discussion group. Surely this already exists somewhere -- but I would love for my oldest to participate in something like this, since I don't have time to read everything he does. I would love for him to be able to discuss books on his level with other kids, without being tied to age or location.

[Lovedtodeath]

No,

I get this- I wouldn't use it, but I get how people want to go to a website and "click" have their curriculum. TWTM is "eclectic" in the sense it's not hsing-in-a-box. It's a whole curriculum in a book, but not in a box.

 

BUT if I was SWB I wouldn't ever want a WTM in a box to be availible. It would keep people from reading the book and truly "getting it." My guess is she rolls her eyes enough everyday over poeple who don't "get it." If someone could just "click" and have a WTM cirriculum at their door, well, they would never undertand the trivium or any of the other wisdom you gain from reading TWTM. For exampe someone would have their WTM-in-a-box show up and toss the latin book, thinking "Latin? forget it." You gotta read TWTM to understand the "why Latin" !!! lol!

 

Anyway, that's just me thinking outloud.

Good points. What if TWTM itself was part of the package for K or 1st? That would help, right? How about a reminder with each subject to "please see page ... in TWTM"?

I would love WTM history in a box! With all the books packaged like SL and a reading schedule!! That's my dream since I started learning more about SL over the past couple of months. I've honestly been wondering why someone hasn't put this together yet. I would think there would be a big market for it. I've been frustrated this year reserving tons of books from the library and trying to figure out what we should read. I would love good, intriguing, age-appropiate, reading level appropriate books scheduled for us to read. I know. I'm asking a lot. But, someone did it for SL, so... :) Just rambing. I have to go, but I'll definitely keep an eye on this thread!! :)

Thanks. Have you seen History Oddysey and Mosaic? Do either of these fill that need, or not, and why not?

 

What I wish existed for secular homeschoolers is an a la carte "in the box" option. I want to be able to pick from 2 or 3 different programs for each subject, choose what level I need for that subject, and I want to have a daily schedule with a regular-speed option and an accelerated-speed option. This should also include a book list and supply list for the whole year up front.

 

I also want the option to purchase the schedule by itself, the schedule with all of the needed resources, or the schedule with all of the resources AND all of the books (like Sonlight I guess, without the guilt trip if I don't want to buy the books).

 

If you had all of the schedules in soft copy, you could insert which programs/levels I was using all onto one planning sheet. You could print each customer's schedule specific to what they are actually using. You know -- I would be willing to pay just for this service, and it would be totally easy for someone to set up. This way there wouldn't be items you would have to stock, and your only investment would be your time!

 

You could have options to include (secular!) memory work, copywork/dictation related to what is being studied that week, and ideas for writing prompts for older students.

 

The other thing I wish existed was a secular (ideally using classics) online book discussion group. Surely this already exists somewhere -- but I would love for my oldest to participate in something like this, since I don't have time to read everything he does. I would love for him to be able to discuss books on his level with other kids, without being tied to age or location.

That all sounds great!

[Haiku]

I'm curious as to whether SWB goes out of her way to provide a secular alternative to the Christian materials she recommends in the 10th anniversary edition of TWTM. In the first two editions, it seems like the secular suggestions are incidental, but it seems like she gets a lot of feedback here that she needs to provide secular recommendations, too.

 

Tara

[Haiku]

Good points. What if TWTM itself was part of the package for K or 1st? That would help, right?

 

I don't know. I would imagine there would be a significant number of people who are buying a curriculum-in-a-box so that they don't have to wade through a big, philosophical how-to tome.

 

I love researching and learning about methodology and materials (I am not a curriculum junkie because I barely buy anything, but I am an information junkie) but I know that a lot of people don't like that or don't have the time for it.

 

Tara

[Rosie_0801]

I think TWTM is the best of both worlds. People who don't feel secure picking their own materials or scheduling them can just do exactly what TWTM says to do. People (like me) who want freedom and flexibility can take the ideas of TWTM and the resource suggestions and tailor them to their individual needs. I really think TWTM is a one-stop homeschooling shop!

 

:iagree: I just wish all the stuff I wanted to buy was available on Amazon. That's by far the easiest and cheapest way for me to buy.

 

Rosie.

[rafiki]

.

[LadyAberlin]

I think a schedule would be really all I want. Money is tight and like Rosie said I would prefer to buy from Amazon or RR or get my books used or at the library to cut down on expenses. I would like the a la cart schedules the one person suggested so you could put together what you want and then have a guide sent to you. You could do like in the hands of a child. Any books you don't already have scheduled people could request to have scheduled for a higher fee. After you have completed the schedule for that person then you could start offering that schedule for others to purchase at the regular fee.

[Macrina]

Good points. What if TWTM itself was part of the package for K or 1st? That would help, right? How about a reminder with each subject to "please see page ... in TWTM"?

 

I would wonder though, if it wasn't SWB's actual store/site operation, if there would be copyright issues, actually designing an all in-the-box after the WTM, all while quoting the book. I could see having a store like this, but I think you would have to side step the direct connection to TWTM, meaning no "see page ___ in the WTM" tid-bits. Unless of course, it was SWB actually running it or being invloved or giving her OK or whatever.

 

where you could either search by grade or subject to see the past and current WTM recommendations. Then each grade have the option to buy the complete year in a box, or add to your cart the pieces of WTM you like.

 

I realize this information is "in the book", but being able to just add it to the cart would make things so much easier and tempt us with materials we may have missed or were thinking they were for older or younger, YKWIM?

 

I have wondered why more information about TWTM isn't on the site, and well, it's so we'll buy the book. If we had all that info online the borrowing the book from the library would have been enough for me, but because of the way the book/site is, I need it as a bookshelf reference. But I have always wished the WTM site was more information filled.

 

I think SWB could make a pretty penny if she had a store connected to the site, selling all the stuff recommended by WTM. I would adore getting all my stuff in one place. I wouldn't do a curriculum in the box thing (as in just choosing "second grade" and getting a bunch of pre-picked stuff) but I WOULD shop at a store that exclusively sold TWTM suggested materials a la cart.

[Rosie_0801]

where you could either search by grade or subject to see the past and current WTM recommendations. Then each grade have the option to buy the complete year in a box, or add to your cart the pieces of WTM you like.

 

 

There are amazon lists like this. Try searching "Listomania" and see what comes up.

 

Rosie

[Nicole M]

I'm not sure if this is what you're asking, but science the well-trained-mind way does not work for us. Science, in general, is difficult. Part of the reason that it doesn't work is that so many of the science books these days, text and regular books, don't have a narrative through-line; they're just pictures with snippets of information, sound bites. I hate that. They give me an actual headache, if I spend to much time looking at those frenetic pages.

 

This is why I love the Rod & Staff science series. It is easy on the eyes, lists important vocabulary at the beginning of each lesson and gives information that builds incrementally over the years. (I guess that is what people mean by scope and sequence?) My friend who is a pediatrician looked through the 5th grade section on the skeletal system and said, "I didn't learn that term until I was in medical school." But it wasn't unnecessarily complicated vocabulary, like what you find (imho) in a secular text. The other benefit is that it advocates and emphasizes respect for the (created) world, and the responsible use of resources.

 

If there were a secular option like this, I'd be all over it.

[arcara]

Have you seen History Oddysey and Mosaic? Do either of these fill that need, or not, and why not?

 

 

 

I've looked at HO, but I've not seen Mosaic before. Right now, I'm planning to use HO for Logic stage history (year after next for us). Just looking at the online samples, it doesn't look like enough reading IMO. It looks like I will have to add a lot. The book list only has a handful of books. The SL 3+4 that my 4th grader will do next year has around 30 history and lit novels, plus a couple of history spines. Again, I haven't actually used HO, so I'll have to see how it actually works out.

[Veritaserum]

What I wish existed for secular homeschoolers is an a la carte "in the box" option. I want to be able to pick from 2 or 3 different programs for each subject, choose what level I need for that subject, and I want to have a daily schedule with a regular-speed option and an accelerated-speed option. This should also include a book list and supply list for the whole year up front.

 

I also want the option to purchase the schedule by itself, the schedule with all of the needed resources, or the schedule with all of the resources AND all of the books (like Sonlight I guess, without the guilt trip if I don't want to buy the books).

 

If you had all of the schedules in soft copy, you could insert which programs/levels I was using all onto one planning sheet. You could print each customer's schedule specific to what they are actually using. You know -- I would be willing to pay just for this service, and it would be totally easy for someone to set up. This way there wouldn't be items you would have to stock, and your only investment would be your time!

 

You could have options to include (secular!) memory work, copywork/dictation related to what is being studied that week, and ideas for writing prompts for older students.

 

The other thing I wish existed was a secular (ideally using classics) online book discussion group. Surely this already exists somewhere -- but I would love for my oldest to participate in something like this, since I don't have time to read everything he does. I would love for him to be able to discuss books on his level with other kids, without being tied to age or location.

 

:iagree: As it is, I'm designing our own program and schedule. The pros of that are that it's personalized. The cons are that it takes a lot of time. I have five kids. The older three are doing schoolwork. Making three schedules is a bit overwhelming. Hopefully whatever I make for the older ones for each grade level will work out well for the younger ones so that I don't have to do it all over again. :)

[Lovedtodeath]

I also want the option to purchase the schedule by itself, the schedule with all of the needed resources, or the schedule with all of the resources AND all of the books (like Sonlight I guess, without the guilt trip if I don't want to buy the books).

So, how would we go about eliminating the guilt trip?

 

You could have options to include (secular!) memory work, copywork/dictation related to what is being studied that week, and ideas for writing prompts for older students.

Like the names and dates from history, and animal classification, that type of memory work?

[katilac]

I'm curious as to whether SWB goes out of her way to provide a secular alternative to the Christian materials she recommends in the 10th anniversary edition of TWTM. In the first two editions, it seems like the secular suggestions are incidental, but it seems like she gets a lot of feedback here that she needs to provide secular recommendations, too.

 

Tara

 

I believe the main reason that few secular materials were recommended in the first edition is that few secular materials existed - - the great majority of home school publishers published Christian materials.

 

It is far easier now to find secular materials (although secular materials are still outweighed by Christian ones), and I think the newer edition reflects that. I'm pretty sure that SWB has said or written something to this effect, at some point in time (how's that for precision :lol:)

[Colleen in SEVA]

So, how would we go about eliminating the guilt trip?

 

Like the names and dates from history, and animal classification, that type of memory work?

 

By guilt trip -- I mean the section in Sonlight's catalog that explains why they feel you should buy all the novels and such from them directly, rather than saving money by buying used or borrowing.

 

Any memory work would be good. It seems like the lists I look at for memory work are scripture based. I'm sure there is someone out there who has a list... and now that I think of it, there are some options in The Homeschoolers Book of Lists I have, but haven't tapped into.

[Lovedtodeath]

I think Drew (Plaid Dad) has a book full of memory lists.

[AngieW in Texas]

I want a completely laid out day-by-day schedule like SL's with notes for the novels. While being able to buy everything from one source would be convenient, that part isn't necessary for me.

 

My girls asked to switch to textbook-based science after several years of using Usborne books (both WTM and SL lean heavily on Usborne for science). They vastly prefer using a textbook for science and so do I.

 

We all prefer doing history the way that SL does it.

 

I would love to have a completely secular SL.

[JenniferB]

OK - this is a bit off topic, but the "TWTM in a box" got me curious to read this thread, and also to compare K12 to TWTM as a possible already produced "WTM in a box".

 

I'm one of those who has gotten really worn out with trying to implement TWTM in an eclectic fashion as outlined in TWTM book. I read the book 4 years ago, and filed the info in my mind, while continuing to pursue other homeschool styles and philosophies trying to find my way over the next 3 years. It was about a year ago (last spring) when I picked it up again in an effort to find a direction for this current year. I've had a very hectic year switching from curriculum to curriculum trying to find my way, TWTM way. I'm at the point now where I've switched to K12 in an effort to find something that covers everything as classically as I can in a "box", with the accountability of our state VA to give me that "push" I need every day to get our lessons done.

 

I've been wanting to compare it to TWTM since I started K12 to see if it's deficient in any way. I've been thinking that K12 is "classical in a box", but I haven't sat down to do a comparison, so I'm going to take the opportunity on this thread to take out my WTM book and compare it to what we're doing in K12. I'm curious to see how K12 lines up with WTM, or differs. We're using K12 1st grade LA & Math with K Science, and 4th grade LA, Math, and Science. I'm still using SOTW for history this year, but will be switching to K12 for all subjects next year, if the rest of this year goes well.

 

Here goes:

 

TWTM grammar stage in black, K12 1st & 4th in Red

 

Language - 1st grade: SWO & Handwritting 10-15 mins per day working up to 15-20 mins. including grammar, structured reading 30 mins., fun reading 30 mins. - Total Language 1 hr. 20 mins per day.

 

4th grade: Spelling 15 mins., Structured reading w/ notebooking 30-45 mins per day, Grammar 20 mins per day, Memory Work 10 mins per day, Writing letters 1 every 2 weeks + Dictation 2-3 days per week rotating w/ Writing Strands 2 days per week 20-30 mins, and 60 mins fun reading per day.

 

K12 Language includes 2 hrs. of language per day structured learning + 30 mins. in 1st grade and 60 mins. in 4th grade of fun reading. Here's how it's broken out:

 

 

 

 

1st Grade Language

 

• Phonics- 60 mins. lessons include reviewing sounds, blending sounds into words, reading and spelling sight words, sentence dictation (1 sentence around 7 words), oral reading practice (structured reading), and handwriting practice.
  
• Language - 60 mins. lessons include composition (writing) of letters, invitations, and creative writing like rhyming or ending a story, GUM (Grammar, Usage, and Mechanics), and Public Speaking (poem recitation, etc.). Literature is the second component of the Language lessons. These include listening and narrating back stories from Junior Grat Books. There are instruction about how to have a converstion about literature without making it seem like a question/answer session. They also include lessons on Shared Reading and Guided Reading. In addition to all this you have your child read on their own from books of their choice.
  

4th Grade Language consists of:

 

• Spelling 20 mins. per day 5 dyas per week - lessons use syllables, and include the study of the United States (2 states per week).
  
• Literature 60 mins. per day 5 days per week + free reading 60 mins. per day. Uses Classics for Young Readers, and novels from a pretty good list. We keep a reading notebook of responses from the literature readings, and have discussions lead by comprehension questions about the readings.
  
• Language (GUM, Composition and Vocabulary rotating) 40 mins. per day 5 days per week. Grammar, Composition and Vocabulary lessons are rotated throughout the week.
  
• No memory work, that I'm aware of yet.
  

Mathematics - SWB recommends 30-40 mins per day on either a new conecpt or drill. K12 lessons are 60 mins. per day with Skills Update which reviews/drills previous concepts, and the lesson which introduces and practices new material.

 

History - SWB recommends studying history chronologically in a 4 year cycle for 3 hours per week making notebook pages and narrating back the lessons. K12 history is chronological in a 4 year cycle from 1st to 4th, then they take a different route studying American History for 2 years in 5th & 6th, and World History for 2 years in 7th and 8th (I haven't looked at High School yet to comment). In 1st grade history is 2 hours per week working up to 3 hours per week in 2nd grade.

 

Science - SWB recommends a 4 year cycle of Biology, Astronomy, Chemistry, and Physics spending 2 hrs. per week working up to 3 hours per week in 4th grade. K12 is different here - students spend 2 hrs. per week in the grammar stage studying a variety of scientific topics categorized into units working in more depth in the various topics as years go on. This is more reminiscent of the public school's approach.

 

Religion - SWB study world religions in the context of history, practice family religion during family time. K12 pretty much the same thing.

 

Art - SWB Drawing with Children & picture study 1 hr. per week. K12 art and history go hand in hand. Students study the type of art present during the age of history studied, and do projects to reflect the art study. Picture study goes along with it within the context of history.

 

Music - SWB listen to classical music 1 hr. per week, and/or begin learning an instrument. K12 students study different kinds of music and instruments.

 

Latin - 4th grade 45 mins per day K12 offers Latin 1 and other foreign language classes via PowerSpeak - I think this is an online class, but I'm not sure I need to look into it more, maybe for next year.

 

My conclusion is that K12 meets or exceeds recommendations from SWB in Language Arts, but is deficient in memory work (as far as I can tell so far), meets expectations in Math, meets recommendations in history, differs and doesn't meet recommendations in Science (more like public school), exceeds recommendations in Art by using art in the context of the history time period being studied, and differs but does not meet recommendations in Music, Latin needs to be added to K12 either through their online option or supplemented by another curriculum provider, and Religion is exactly the same.

 

What do ya'll think? If you care to comment, I'd be interested in your analysis.

Edited March 7, 2009 by JenniferB

[Tabrett]

Whether it is secular or not, I would love WTM in a box. I looked over History Odyssey- I didn't like the format. I like having a page with with boxes to show my whole day's plan; like SL. I looked at Mosaic and it didn't do SOTW as suggested in WTM; one chapter a week. It didn't start SOTW until chapter 6 and then is skipped around. It did have the boxes I like.

 

I want the SOTW schedule of 1 chapter per week strictly followed! Where you read SOTW and narrate on day one and on day 2 you craft and read the complementary books.

 

I would like a SL-like format for the WTM. Where I could put in into a 3 ring binder for the week are working on. I would like what to read in the books, crafts and what to expect from a narration all scheduled out for me in the boxes and a weekly supply list for the craft. I want it to be for the grammar level. I keep finding lots of curriculums like this for 5-8th grade, but none for 1st-4th grade.

 

I don't mind not having as many book as you would have if you went to the library. The library is a dream that is not achievable for me. I can't drag a 6yo, 4yo and 2yo to the library weekly to hunt books! Going to the library would be great if you only had one or two school age kids to teach, but it doesn't work with large families with preschoolers.

 

I would also like to have a weekly schedule for FLL and WWE (boxes of course). I do realize it would have to be on a separate page in case you were teaching multiple ages. I would like extra boxes to write in my daily assignments in handwriting and spelling (like SL).

 

For science, I would like it to follow the 4 year rotation and have a kit you can buy with all the science experiment supplies needed. I would also like notebooking pages to go along with the science. I would like the science also scheduled for 2 days a week on the opposite day as history.

 

I would also like to have grade level scheduled readers and read alouds planned out in boxes.

 

If someone made this kind of schedule and had all the books available or told me what books to buy, I would be all over that curriculum!!!!!

 

As of now, I will be doing MFW 1 (I'm Christian) with SOTW 1 and AG with SL core 1 books (so I don't have to go to the library; of course), FLL and WWE. That is as close to a boxed WTM curriculum I could find.

[Haiku]

I can't drag a 6yo, 4yo and 2yo to the library weekly to hunt books!

 

Does your library offer you the opportunity to browse the catalog online and reserve books from home? That's what I do. I choose all my books at home and have them sent to the nearest branch and pick them up weekly. They are all waiting for me in our family's box at the check-out counter.

 

Tara

 

ETA: Mosaic does use every chapter in SOTW1. It doesn't do them in SOTW's order, but it's not like it just lops off the first five chapters. ;)

Edited March 7, 2009 by TaraTheLiberator

[Annie Laurie]

JenniferB, that was extremely interesting; thanks for taking the time to post all of that.

[Tabrett]

Does your library offer you the opportunity to browse the catalog on line and reserve books from home? That's what I do. I choose all my books at home and have them sent to the nearest branch and pick them up weekly. They are all waiting for me in our family's box at the check-out counter.

 

Tara

 

ETA: Mosaic does use every chapter in SOTW1. It doesn't do them in SOTW's order, but it's not like it just lops off the first five chapters. ;)

I really don't know. My library is very new and doesn't have a big selection of book. I would also be worried that the book I wanted would be checked out. If you had just 5-10 families in your county doing doing ancients, all the books on the subject you wanted might be checked out or reserved. I know that sounds silly, but I just want to own my book so I don't have to worry. Library fines are my friend, also.:001_huh:

[sweetfeet]

I keep looking at Sonlight, despite the fact that I very much need/want a secular program, simply because it's all laid out and very organized. I've tried and tried to make my own wannabe sonlight schedule using the curriculum I already have but it takes hours each week. I want check boxes and at-a-glance, week-at-a-time pages. I want a literature rich program. I feel like Veruca Salt right now. I just don't want to hole myself up in my 'office' for 2-3 hours on Sunday night figuring out a schedule and formatting it in word week after week.

[lovemykids]

Yes, all laid out and very organized would be a dream. I liked the ala cart idea. Choosing books to make everybody happy is going to be an enormous task. :glare: I'd love to try to help put together something like this though, how exciting!! Great plans here.

[Lovedtodeath]

Thanks for the discussion!

 

I am thinking make books that are not available from Amazon.com included, but provide an Amazon shopping list for the others.

[Annie Laurie]

I keep looking at Sonlight, despite the fact that I very much need/want a secular program, simply because it's all laid out and very organized. I've tried and tried to make my own wannabe sonlight schedule using the curriculum I already have but it takes hours each week. I want check boxes and at-a-glance, week-at-a-time pages. I want a literature rich program. I feel like Veruca Salt right now. I just don't want to hole myself up in my 'office' for 2-3 hours on Sunday night figuring out a schedule and formatting it in word week after week.

 

Have you checkout out the Sonlight secular yahoo group? SL is pretty easy to secularize, I'm Christian but not an evangelical Christian and I leave out the missionary stories usually. Beyond that, if you leave out the Bible component, there's not a lot of Christian content.

[Tabrett]

Have you checkout out the Sonlight secular yahoo group? SL is pretty easy to secularize, I'm Christian but not an evangelical Christian and I leave out the missionary stories usually. Beyond that, if you leave out the Bible component, there's not a lot of Christian content.

Even though SL can be secular, it does not use WTM suggestions. That is why, as a Christian, I am using SL as a supplement and not my curriculum for 1st grade. I want to use SOTW 1 for 1st.

[Lovedtodeath]

I would wonder though, if it wasn't SWB's actual store/site operation, if there would be copyright issues, actually designing an all in-the-box after the WTM, all while quoting the book. I could see having a store like this, but I think you would have to side step the direct connection to TWTM, meaning no "see page ___ in the WTM" tid-bits. Unless of course, it was SWB actually running it or being invloved or giving her OK or whatever.

I don't see how that would be a problem. A lot of programs say to read pg. ___ in SOTW, or Usborne, or... etc.

 

Whether it is secular or not, I would love WTM in a box. I looked over History Odyssey- I didn't like the format. I like having a page with with boxes to show my whole day's plan; like SL. I looked at Mosaic and it didn't do SOTW as suggested in WTM; one chapter a week. It didn't start SOTW until chapter 6 and then is skipped around. It did have the boxes I like.

 

I want the SOTW schedule of 1 chapter per week strictly followed! Where you read SOTW and narrate on day one and on day 2 you craft and read the complementary books.

 

I would like a SL-like format for the WTM. Where I could put in into a 3 ring binder for the week are working on. I would like what to read in the books, crafts and what to expect from a narration all scheduled out for me in the boxes and a weekly supply list for the craft. I want it to be for the grammar level. I keep finding lots of curriculums like this for 5-8th grade, but none for 1st-4th grade.

 

I don't mind not having as many book as you would have if you went to the library. The library is a dream that is not achievable for me. I can't drag a 6yo, 4yo and 2yo to the library weekly to hunt books! Going to the library would be great if you only had one or two school age kids to teach, but it doesn't work with large families with preschoolers.

 

I would also like to have a weekly schedule for FLL and WWE (boxes of course). I do realize it would have to be on a separate page in case you were teaching multiple ages. I would like extra boxes to write in my daily assignments in handwriting and spelling (like SL).

 

For science, I would like it to follow the 4 year rotation and have a kit you can buy with all the science experiment supplies needed. I would also like notebooking pages to go along with the science. I would like the science also scheduled for 2 days a week on the opposite day as history.

 

I would also like to have grade level scheduled readers and read alouds planned out in boxes.

 

If someone made this kind of schedule and had all the books available or told me what books to buy, I would be all over that curriculum!!!!!

 

As of now, I will be doing MFW 1 (I'm Christian) with SOTW 1 and AG with SL core 1 books (so I don't have to go to the library; of course), FLL and WWE. That is as close to a boxed WTM curriculum I could find.

Okay, what grade level do you want? I can design something around your wish list. How would you feel about Our Young Folk's Josephus (not secular) and Our Island Story being incorporated as a second spine? With SOTW 3 and 4 having an American Spine to go along with it?

[Amy in OH]

:iagree:

Yes, all laid out and very organized would be a dream. I liked the ala cart idea. Choosing books to make everybody happy is going to be an enormous task. :glare: I'd love to try to help put together something like this though, how exciting!! Great plans here.

:iagree:

[Annie Laurie]

Even though SL can be secular, it does not use WTM suggestions. That is why, as a Christian, I am using SL as a supplement and not my curriculum for 1st grade. I want to use SOTW 1 for 1st.

 

I was addressing the person who says she looks at SL frequently but the Christian aspect is the problem for her, so was going a little OT from the main subject of the thread. I understand not using SL is you're strictly following WTM and don't think SL is the answer for everyone. :001_smile:

[sweetfeet]

Have you checkout out the Sonlight secular yahoo group? SL is pretty easy to secularize, I'm Christian but not an evangelical Christian and I leave out the missionary stories usually. Beyond that, if you leave out the Bible component, there's not a lot of Christian content.

 

No, I didn't know about that group. Thank you! I knew I could easily leave off the bible study, but I was worried about the missionary stories and what else might be included. I'll see if I can locate that yahoo group.:D

[AngieW in Texas]

SonlightSecular is a fantastic loop. SL really is pretty easy to secularize except for just a few of the Cores. Core 5 requires a lot of work to secularize. Core 200 has good literature, but the history isn't usable. Core 400 has more religion interwoven than I want to deal with.

 

I'm not Christian, but I've been using SL for the past 11 years. I would still love to see a secular version though.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

I'm not Christian, but I've been using SL for the past 11 years. I would still love to see a secular version though.

Is there anything that you would be interested in buying, or are you pretty set with your SL plans now?

[Tabrett]

I was addressing the person who says she looks at SL frequently but the Christian aspect is the problem for her, so was going a little OT from the main subject of the thread. I understand not using SL is you're strictly following WTM and don't think SL is the answer for everyone. :001_smile:

I'm sorry. I was afraid it would be taken the wrong way after I posted.:001_huh: The reason I posted my reply was that so many people kept refering to SL and I was addressing why I don't used it with out having to do a lot of typing.

 

Sorry.

[Tabrett]

I don't see how that would be a problem. A lot of programs say to read pg. ___ in SOTW, or Usborne, or... etc.

 

Okay, what grade level do you want? I can design something around your wish list. How would you feel about Our Young Folk's Josephus (not secular) and Our Island Story being incorporated as a second spine? With SOTW 3 and 4 having an American Spine to go along with it?

I'm already set for SOTW 1 for the fall. I would be looking for WTM in a box starting with SOTW 2 for 2nd grade and K (I need to combine dc).

 

Those book sound pretty good. My only drawback would be the lack of pictures between both spines. Kingfisher and Usborne both have lots of pictures; would you be using those too? Or something similar?

 

Would anybody else be interested in this? This is what I think of when I imagine WTM in a box.

[sweetfeet]

Would anybody else be interested in this? This is what I think of when I imagine WTM in a box.

 

 

I'm looking ahead to second grade for this fall. I was going to pick up a copy of Our Island Story to go along with SOTW 2 and our Usborne IL Encyc. of World History.

[Lovedtodeath]

Oh, yes. I was definitely planning pictures. Probably Usborne Internet Linked and a couple of other more time period specific books. According to TWTM, it appears that just as many books would need to be read by the student. I don't plan on it being as time-consuming as SL. I hope that works. Maybe we could do a heavier version as an option?

[Guest Lorna]

'The Well Trained Mind' has always been a good secular curriculum for us. As someone else has pointed out, its use of Rod and Staff is simply down to it being the best available curriculum available. If the grammar wasn't so different from the British I would use Rod and Staff and consider the religious aspect an education for our secular family. After all, although there are many Christians on this board, there aren't many Mennonites. In some ways Christians of a different belief may have more objections than I to a Mennonite worldview.

 

The science, history. philosophy and literature are as balanced in religion and politics as I think it is humanly possible to be.

 

I have actually found it more of a challenge to adapt 'The Well Trained Mind' to a British curriculum. The grammar is different; the maths is ordered differently; the World history is excellent but I need to add in a few more kings and a few less presidents :tongue_smilie:. Nevertheless 'The Well Trained Mind' is the closest curriculum out there, American or British to the one taught in my heavily Classically influenced Scottish education growing up and the one I choose for our children.

 

The Well Trained Mind in a box? Well that sounds great, but they would have to make a unique box especially for one family in our case. Susan isn't busy at all is she ?:leaving:

[Lovedtodeath]

'The Well Trained Mind' has always been a good secular curriculum for us. As someone else has pointed out, its use of Rod and Staff is simply down to it being the best available curriculum available. If the grammar wasn't so different from the British I would use Rod and Staff and consider the religious aspect an education for our secular family. After all, although there are many Christians on this board, there aren't many Mennonites. In some ways Christians of a different belief may have more objections than I to a Mennonite worldview.

 

The science, history. philosophy and literature are as balanced in religion and politics as I think it is humanly possible to be.

 

I have actually found it more of a challenge to adapt 'The Well Trained Mind' to a British curriculum. The grammar is different; the maths is ordered differently; the World history is excellent but I need to add in a few more kings and a few less presidents :tongue_smilie:. Nevertheless 'The Well Trained Mind' is the closest curriculum out there, American or British to the one taught in my heavily Classically influenced Scottish education growing up and the one I choose for our children.

 

The Well Trained Mind in a box? Well that sounds great, but they would have to make a unique box especially for one family in our case. Susan isn't busy at all is she ?:leaving:

Making it infinitely adaptable would be something to work toward, but would take some time. We would probably start out with the basics in order to get it released and then add different levels of customization. If you would really be interested in buying, your preferences could be one of the first that we work on. My partner and I have been discussing including different levels (SOTW 1 doesn't always equal 1st grade, etc.) and different LA Options.

 

I also plan to have notes on every book read, and have every book included in notebooking and narrating, etc. But that may be something to add after a schedule is initially released as well.

 

Of course, at this point we are still rhetorical.

 

You are probably right. I am a Christian who will not use Rod and Staff. :D And I prefer my history sources to not be influenced by providential thinking, so I think that Christians could definitely benefit from a secular WTM in a box.

[Lovedtodeath]

Tabrett, your suggestions are great! Would you mind discussing what books you are using from SL and why? Feel free to PM me if we don't want to clutter up the thread.

[Tabrett]

Tabrett, your suggestions are great! Would you mind discussing what books you are using from SL and why? Feel free to PM me if we don't want to clutter up the thread.

 

I used SL 1 with my oldest dd, many years ago and I have saved the books. I plan on buying a few more. I will pm you later on which books I like the best and why.

[Lovedtodeath]

Thanks! I have about half the books from SL K and 1, a few from 2 and fewer still from the other cores. I don't really want to do a "secular version of SL", as SL is pretty time consuming. TWTM focuses more on skills than content, I think.

[Nan in Mass]

Maybe?

The reason we can use TWTM is because it isn't school in a box. It doesn't assume that we will finish reading a particular book at a particular time. It doesn't assume that we would rather read x than y. It lets us decide as we go along. We can say, "Oh - that was interesting about such and such. Let's read a book about that next." It lets you tailor the content to a child's interests without worrying that some crucial skills will be missed. It recommends a number of choices of books in its lists: ones at various reading levels, ones focusing on various aspects like wars or politics or daily life, ones that present the material in different ways like a newspaper or a choose-your-own-adventure book or heavily illustrated or story-like. Once you figure out which level your child is at, which aspect they are interested in, and what format they like best, it is easy to personalize their reading list. Or if you have no money one year or you want to let your children choose for themselves, you can simply get something from the library where your librarian has a similar "list" on the shelf. Most subjects aren't connected to other ones, so it is easy to pick a more advanced Latin book to go together with a spelling book that is two grades lower. It is also fairly easy to teach several children together using TWTM. In order to put it in a box with a schedule, you would have to make all those decisions for other families. And the families would wind up altering your box anyway. In which case, they might as well do it TWTM in the first place? Maybe? I think perhaps if you tried to make a WTM-in-a-box that was tailorable, you would find that you had rewritten TWTM book? I understand the attraction of having someone else make all those choices for you because homeschooling is hard work, but I'm not sure anyone else can. I think each family probably has to make all those millions of little choices for themselves. At least TWTM narrows down the choices and explains them, and then tells you how to homeschool in an open-and-go fashion so you don't have to bother with schedules other than a daily subject one (math from 8-9, Latin from 9-10, or whatever).

 

-Nan

[Lovedtodeath]

Nan, that is very true for those that are willing and able, but why do we have so many using HO, SL, WP, MFW etc.? Obviously, there is a want for something put together. And most of the companies trying to fill that want are not going by TWTM recs or are not secular, leading to dis-satisfication and/or tweaking. So I am thinking there is a place for a classical curriculum in a box.

 

The customization may take some additional time after the first release. As to different grade levels in different subjects, each subject can be scheduled out for the year separately, and then put into one schedule upon request. :) I know that some kids will speed through programs, and others take twice as long. Especially those Mastery programs like AAS and MUS, but well... People seem to still want programs that are scheduled out even though that may seem to defeat the purpose.

 

I plan to have my kids 5-6 grade levels apart, but studying the same thing, Tabret has 2 grade levels apart... so that would most likely be the first levels done in History.

 

You have a good point, TWTM is great as written, but many are showing that they want more structure and guidance and less leg-work.