? re freshly ground wheat vs. flour from grocery store

[Kathleen in VA]

We just finished reading The Long Winter by L.I. Wilder. This story takes place during the winter of 1880-81. Because the trains can't get through, the Ingalls are not able to get the things they regularly buy at the general store. They end up buying some grain from Almanzo Wilder and grinding it in a coffee mill in order to keep from starving. There is mention made earlier in the story of how the flour sack is running low and then eventually is empty which prompts Pa to buy the grain from Almanzo.

 

Now I've heard that in the 1920s or thereabout the big mills started processing the milled flour in a way that depleted it of most of its nutrients which is why store-bought bread and grocery store flour are not good for you. They attempted to put the nutrients back in by fortifying the flour with vitamins but it doesn't really give you the nutrients you would have if you milled your flour yourself.

 

I've also read that once you grind the wheat into flour it needs to be used right away or stored in the freezer. If you leave it out the nutritional value decreases rapidly and it eventually goes rancid - not sure of the timetable on either one of those.

 

My question is, how was it that in 1880 Mrs. Ingalls was able to buy flour at the general store that was not rancid? If she bought flour and not grain (which is what the book says she did) how did the flour stay fresh? If it stayed fresh for her, then is it really true that the flour you find on the grocery store shelves now is depleted of vital nutrients? This seems like conflicting information and I find it confusing.

[Ria]

Have you ever tasted freshly milled flour and compared it to what is sold in the stores? There is no comparison, and yet people still buy whole wheat flour in grocery stores daily. Rancid, in wheat terms, doesn't mean inedible. It just has a certain flavor that, unfortunately, many people think is normal for whole wheat; not inedible by any means, but not the same as freshly ground.

 

Ria

[Sara R]

They must have had refined wheat flour back then too. Sylvester Graham was a health reformer who advocated whole wheat flour, in contrast to the refined flour they ate at the time. The graham cracker was named after him (back then it was made from whole grains).

[SonshineLearner]

Wheat starts to become rancid, so to say, as soon as you break open the wheat berry. It has oils in it, and when you grind it...it starts to "go bad" and.... so you want to use it right away... or put it in the freezer to use it from there... (Although I had a baker tell me that you want to let the flour rest for a while before using it...hmmm)

 

Carrie:-)

[HiddenJewel]

Wheat starts to become rancid, so to say, as soon as you break open the wheat berry. It has oils in it, and when you grind it...it starts to "go bad" and.... so you want to use it right away... or put it in the freezer to use it from there... (Although I had a baker tell me that you want to let the flour rest for a while before using it...hmmm)

 

Carrie:-)

 

I was told it takes about 3 days for freshly ground flour to go bad.

[Ruthie]

Yup, 3 days out in room temp and I can start to smell it. Anyone who tries fresh whole wheat always exclaims, "How can this be whole wheat?"

 

That typical musty, bitter whole wheat bread taste? It's moldy wheat:glare:

[Kathleen in VA]

Have you ever tasted freshly milled flour and compared it to what is sold in the stores? There is no comparison, and yet people still buy whole wheat flour in grocery stores daily. Rancid, in wheat terms, doesn't mean inedible. It just has a certain flavor that, unfortunately, many people think is normal for whole wheat; not inedible by any means, but not the same as freshly ground.

 

Ria

 

Yes, Ria, I have tasted it. A friend of mine has a Whisper Mill and ground up some wheat for me to try because I am considering buying a grain mill myself. I wanted to see if I could make a loaf of bread my family would actually eat before I invested the money :). I made four loaves of bread and some pizza crusts with what she gave me. To be perfectly honest, I really did not taste that much difference between the bread I made and the Arnold brand bread I've been buying at the store. I do think the cost is probably much less though.

 

Do you know if the store-bought bread that says "Whole grain" on it is made from freshly ground whole wheat just like we would get at home with a grain mill? I guess I'm just wondering if I have what it takes to completely wean myself off of buying my bread at the store and actually commit to making my own on a regular basis. It's hard to imagine, with everything else I do, having time to work bread baking into the schedule, but I'd be willing to do it if I was sure it was significantly more beneficial to my family's health.

[Rose in BC]

Have you ever tasted freshly milled flour and compared it to what is sold in the stores? There is no comparison, and yet people still buy whole wheat flour in grocery stores daily. Rancid, in wheat terms, doesn't mean inedible. It just has a certain flavor that, unfortunately, many people think is normal for whole wheat; not inedible by any means, but not the same as freshly ground.

 

Ria

:iagree:

[Nestof3]

The same is true of things like flaxseed. I always buy the seeds and grind it in my coffee grinder myself. I grind enough for about three days. I then store it in the refrigerator.

[Rosie_0801]

Shop bought wholemeal bread is made from refined white flour with some bran added back in. Nothing like home ground bread. I've not had much luck with yeast breads at home, so I'm trying to build my self esteem by making flat breads and having a lot more success. I'm not making enough to replace shop bought bread, but with my new tortilla press, I can make it quite quickly. Consider the possibility that your family eats too much bread, not that you can't make enough.

 

:)

Rosie- who got up and made tortillas for breakfast. Not bad for a woman with a toddler and 4 week old baby, huh?

[cjzimmer1]

I'm not making enough to replace shop bought bread, but with my new tortilla press, I can make it quite quickly. Consider the possibility that your family eats too much bread, not that you can't make enough.

 

:)

Rosie- who got up and made tortillas for breakfast. Not bad for a woman with a toddler and 4 week old baby, huh?

 

So does the tortilla press work with whole wheat flour dough? We love fresh tortillas, but rolling them all by hand is a bit time consuming to make enough for my crew. I was reading reviews on the presses and there seems to be very mixed reactions on them. I'm just trying to decide if it would speed up my prep time, or just frustrate me more.

[Kathleen in VA]

Shop bought wholemeal bread is made from refined white flour with some bran added back in. Nothing like home ground bread. I've not had much luck with yeast breads at home, so I'm trying to build my self esteem by making flat breads and having a lot more success. I'm not making enough to replace shop bought bread, but with my new tortilla press, I can make it quite quickly. Consider the possibility that your family eats too much bread, not that you can't make enough.

 

:)

Rosie- who got up and made tortillas for breakfast. Not bad for a woman with a toddler and 4 week old baby, huh?

 

I'm impressed.:) I could barely get out of bed when mine were 4 weeks old!

 

Here's the thing. I have a husband and two older sons, all of whom work and take their lunches to work with them. None of them has access to a microwave so I usually make sandwiches for them. Dh works two jobs so I usually pack two very large sandwiches for him and lately I've been doing the same for ds21 who is working full time during the day and going to school 3 nights a week. We do go through a lot of bread! I'm just not creative when it comes to figuring out what to put in their lunches. Those of us at home very often eat leftovers for lunch, but the three men don't have any place to heat those up. Seems like I should be using the best and freshest bread since they must eat so much of it.

 

I've also read much that has persuaded me to want to switch to freshly ground wheat, but that whole Ma-Ingalls-using-flour-in-a-sack thing caused me to wonder how she managed to do that before the technology for being able to store flour on a shelf indefinitely came into being. Did she just use moldy wheat? Hard to imagine that she would have felt comfortable doing that. As someone else said, they must've figured out a way to keep it from going bad earlier than was first thought.

[Mary in NJ]

I just found a bakery in my town that grinds their flour fresh each day. The owner said that I could buy a few pounds from him. This is great, because I would like to make freshly ground wheat bread, but do not have a wheat grinder.

 

Win, win situation for me.

 

You might look around to see if you have a local bakery who grinds their wheat daily.

[Nestof3]

I've also read much that has persuaded me to want to switch to freshly ground wheat, but that whole Ma-Ingalls-using-flour-in-a-sack thing caused me to wonder how she managed to do that before the technology for being able to store flour on a shelf indefinitely came into being. Did she just use moldy wheat?

 

Didn't they have cold cellars? We cannot keep potatoes around here for more than a week before they sprout, but they were probably able to keep them much longer.

 

Again, there is a difference between SEEING mold on something and something actually going rancid. I know some people who cannot even eat nuts from grocery stores because the molds are too much for them.

[lmrich]

I have started baking my own bread this year. I don't grind my own flour, but I am seriously thinking about it. My family has not once complained about missing the store purchased bread and they absolutely love the smell of fresh baking bread. I have started making 12 buns (easier to slice for sandwiches) and one loaf of bread at the start of the week along with a quick bread (apple or bannana) and usually that is enough. But I do agree that it is hard if your family is bread/sandwich dependent. I am interested in learning more about this, too. I even went to the Bread Beckers store this weekend - but it way too crowded for me to learn much. I guess I want to make sure that it is worth the money and the health benefits for us to grind our own.

 

I would also agree that the Ingalls had cold storage for their flour. Didn't they take their wheat to be ground at the local mill several times a year? and in this book, didn't they move into the town for the winter?

[Kathleen in VA]

I have started baking my own bread this year. I don't grind my own flour, but I am seriously thinking about it. My family has not once complained about missing the store purchased bread and they absolutely love the smell of fresh baking bread. I have started making 12 buns (easier to slice for sandwiches) and one loaf of bread at the start of the week along with a quick bread (apple or bannana) and usually that is enough. But I do agree that it is hard if your family is bread/sandwich dependent. I am interested in learning more about this, too. I even went to the Bread Beckers store this weekend - but it way too crowded for me to learn much. I guess I want to make sure that it is worth the money and the health benefits for us to grind our own.

 

I would also agree that the Ingalls had cold storage for their flour. Didn't they take their wheat to be ground at the local mill several times a year? and in this book, didn't they move into the town for the winter?

 

I'm not sure about what it says in the other books, but in The Long Winter they do not take their wheat to be ground any where. They bought flour at the general store. When they ran out of flour Pa bought grain from Almanzo and the girls took turns grinding it in the coffee grinder. I am not sure, but there is no mention made of them having harvested a crop that year - I think it may have been their first and they did not have time to plant, grow and harvest that year. I don't know about cold storage. They did mention that the flour sack was in the kitchen where they could see it slowly dwindling - it was very cold most of the winter so perhaps it wasn't an issue in the winter. But that doesn't explain what they did with it in the summer. I don't think there was a mill in town. Ma was very excited when the train finally came in May because Pa was able to go to the store and buy more flour. They had just used up the very last of the grain that morning for breakfast and Pa made a big deal about how amazing Ma was for managing to make it last until the very last minute.:)

[LND1218]

Eventhough they bought flour from the store, it would have been milled locally. At least close if not in town. It would have been pretty fresh to begin with.

 

I imagine during a winter like that it was kept pretty darn cold - just like freezing it. If they had a root cellar, it would have been like an ice box! Flour keeps if frozen.

 

They didn't have the same standards we do. Our food in very clean and sanitized - bugs, mold etc weren't uncommon back then. I mean sometimes I can't believe the stuff they ate. So I imagine that they often ate flour that had "gone bad." It was that or starve.

[LND1218]

Those root cellars stay cold in the summer too - my mom's farms had one growing up.

 

It they only had one sack of it it was likely in the kitchen, but any more than that was likely stored underground - if not by them then the store.

[Anne]

Wasn't the flour they bought, white flour? I always thought white flour stayed "fresh" longer just because there's less to go rancid.

 

I always thought the reason the Ingalls even survived was that they were eating freshly ground wheat every day - if they'd been eating out of a bag of white flour, they'd have died....

 

I don't know if this accurate or not, just what I've always thought...

 

Anne

[Rosie_0801]

So does the tortilla press work with whole wheat flour dough? We love fresh tortillas, but rolling them all by hand is a bit time consuming to make enough for my crew. I was reading reviews on the presses and there seems to be very mixed reactions on them. I'm just trying to decide if it would speed up my prep time, or just frustrate me more.

 

I don't know yet. I've only made tortillas from corn so far. The press only arrived in the mail late last week. I'm curious how well it will work with gluten flours. Hopefully I'll get to that some time later this week. Today and tomorrow are dh's busy days at uni so I'm taking the easiest option. If I get to the wheat, I'll try to remember to report back!

 

I'm impressed.:) I could barely get out of bed when mine were 4 weeks old!

Lol, neither was I after my first! The recovery time from a five hour labour is a lot shorter than from an eleven hour labour!

 

 

I've also read much that has persuaded me to want to switch to freshly ground wheat, but that whole Ma-Ingalls-using-flour-in-a-sack thing caused me to wonder how she managed to do that before the technology for being able to store flour on a shelf indefinitely came into being. Did she just use moldy wheat? Hard to imagine that she would have felt comfortable doing that. As someone else said, they must've figured out a way to keep it from going bad earlier than was first thought.

 

Maybe she was using wholewheat flour similar to our shop bought stuff. They've been refining flour for centuries. Think of medieval times, the nobility were enjoying their white bread with dinner, but before plates they used trenchers made out of unrefined flour. I'm not sure, since I don't know how they take the oils out of flour. It may not be a modern invention though.

 

:)

Rosie

[usetoschool]

From The Little House Cookbook: "Bread Flour - The wheat flour used by Ma Ingalls and Mother Wilder was ground between buhrstones, then sifted or "bolted" to separate the fine white powder from the coarser hulls, or bran, and the germ. Whole-wheat or graham flour was unbolted. Mother Wilder and Ma preferred white flour because it lacks germ oil that can sour and because it produces baked goods light in texture and color. But most of the time Ma uses a less refined, less expensive middle grade, flecked with brown bran."

[Punkinelly]

I am wondering if when Ma bought a barrel or sack of flour from the store, it might have been white flour.

 

Mary